Real ID: Married Women Beware!

leebee

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 1999
I just realized that although I will be fine (never changed my name when married), DH might be in a world of confusion. Not going through it all, but here is his name-change:

Birth first, Birth middle, Birth last names;
Legally changed his name in CO in 1980; he is now differently spelled birth first name, original birth middle name, completely different last name (so current name).
He has his original birth certificate, SS card in his current name, official name change papers. He also has a DL and passport in his current name. I am hoping he has the right paperwork, but I know he never had his birth certificate changed and I have no idea if he has, or will need, his original-name SS card.
To me, there are a couple of issues with this whole RealID thing. First is the need to provide documentation to prove things that you've already had to show the same documentation to get your current identification. I suspect this is because different states/cities/towns have required different things along the way, so this simply guarantees that everything is now standardized and proven. The second issue is... how is this any different from a government-issued national identification card? So many folks are up in arms against that, but isn't RealID actually just a formalized government ID system? I've always figured the government can get any information about me that they want, fairly easily, but I know people who think a government ID system is a threat to their personal privacy and to freedom in general.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Birth first, Birth middle, Birth last names;
Legally changed his name in CO in 1980; he is now differently spelled birth first name, original birth middle name, completely different last name (so current name).
He has his original birth certificate, SS card in his current name, official name change papers. He also has a DL and passport in his current name. I am hoping he has the right paperwork, but I know he never had his birth certificate changed and I have no idea if he has, or will need, his original-name SS card.
My dad has always gone by his middle name, first name, last name. He's never legally changed his name though. I actually don't know/don't remember how his DL is set up but it's possible he would run into problems because of not all paperwork not matching like his address verification since those types of documents are in his name he goes by rather than his legal name.
 

jo-jo

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
The second issue is... how is this any different from a government-issued national identification card? So many folks are up in arms against that, but isn't RealID actually just a formalized government ID system? I've always figured the government can get any information about me that they want, fairly easily, but I know people who think a government ID system is a threat to their personal privacy and to freedom in general.

I understand what you are saying and this may just be the start of a slippery slope, but you will only need the REAL ID for flying and entering some government buildings. For us, that would mean we would need Real Id maybe twice a year. I'm not sure if it would be need for local jury duty or just Federal cases. But if we lived close enough to disney to drive, I doubt we would even bother.
 
  • Colleen27

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 31, 2007
    I just realized that although I will be fine (never changed my name when married), DH might be in a world of confusion. Not going through it all, but here is his name-change:

    Birth first, Birth middle, Birth last names;
    Legally changed his name in CO in 1980; he is now differently spelled birth first name, original birth middle name, completely different last name (so current name).
    He has his original birth certificate, SS card in his current name, official name change papers. He also has a DL and passport in his current name. I am hoping he has the right paperwork, but I know he never had his birth certificate changed and I have no idea if he has, or will need, his original-name SS card.
    My husband didn't have a problem with his, and he also changed his name in adulthood and never had his birth certificate changed. He has his birth certificate showing his birth name, his social security card and drivers' license in his current name, and copies (not originals) of his name change paperwork. I'm a little concerned about applying for his passport this year because of the birth certificate mismatch, but he had no problem with getting an enhanced DL or renewing it under the Real ID rules.
     

    Colleen27

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 31, 2007
    I think some governments have issued birth certificates that for one reason or another weren't acceptable because they didn't include certain anti counterfeiting features or didn't contain required information. For example, I've seen some forms that didn't include the name of the parents unless the requestor specifically asked for that to be printed.
    Yep. When I applied for my passport, I had to get a new certified copy of my birth certificate because the original wasn't adequate. It was a certified copy, printed by the county clerk's office where I was born, but the way it was printed in 1979 didn't meet current requirements - the specific issue was lack of a raised seal to verify its authenticity, but I don't think the white-on-black printing method helped matters any since it is rather hard to read after 40 years in storage. Fortunately I only live two counties away from where I grew up and had no problem getting a new copy printed on the current, anti-counterfeit paper with the embossed seal, so it only delayed my application by a few days.
     

    Tess

    DIS Veteran - 1997
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    We have our appointment with SoS/DMV on 11/6/19. I am so confused and hope I have the right documentation. My SS card is in my married name. I requested a new birth certificate from OH (now in MI) but it does not have a raised seal--only the certification that it is an accurate reproduction on the watermark paper. I have our original marriage license (MI) with a raised seal. To complicate matters, I was previously married (briefly) while in college. I do have the documents from OH for that marriage and dissolution, but not sure I really need them. These I also requested and paid the fee, but again, they are certified, but no raised seal. We have been married 38 years and I'm not sure I really need those first marriage documents since my SS card went from maiden name (matches birth certificate) to now married name. We are going together to accomplish the license change. All of the household bills are in his name, but I do have bank accounts in my name (and his) with our address.

    What exactly do I need? Our SoS office website is really unclear and I don't want to make two trips. I suppose if I have to it won't be too burdensome. I am not due for a new DL until October, but we are flying before my birthday next year (expiration date of DL) and I want this new license changed well before. Such a nightmare for the women. I'm sure my husband will need only his DL and maybe a birth certificate/bill in his name, etc. :headache:
     

    bcla

    On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
    Joined
    Nov 28, 2012
    Yep. When I applied for my passport, I had to get a new certified copy of my birth certificate because the original wasn't adequate. It was a certified copy, printed by the county clerk's office where I was born, but the way it was printed in 1979 didn't meet current requirements - the specific issue was lack of a raised seal to verify its authenticity, but I don't think the white-on-black printing method helped matters any since it is rather hard to read after 40 years in storage. Fortunately I only live two counties away from where I grew up and had no problem getting a new copy printed on the current, anti-counterfeit paper with the embossed seal, so it only delayed my application by a few days.
    Some birth certificates were printed in a negative printing process. I was at my country recorder's office trying to get a copy of our marriage certificate (they also handle birth certificates). When they had a computer issue they said that they could pull a copy of it from their microfilm records. It's my understanding that the original eventually goes to the the State of California for archiving. However, I'm thinking that was more common back in the 1970s compared to today when laser printing is common. They must have used some sort of photographic process that was really old, since a lot of government agencies were slow to adopt new tech if the old tech was already paid for.

    The State Dept requires some sort of seal. The most common is an embossed seal, but there are other way like a multicolored stamp or maybe a holographic seal.
     
  • CynBeth

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 17, 2011
    We are in MD. My DH, DM, and myself just went today it was so quick and easy. We are not due yet so they would not let us make an appointment and got there a little after opening time as walk-ins. There was no line and once the lady at the desk looked at our licenses and documents said go wait until your number is called and we were each taken before we even sat down. They did not need my marriage license. We brought more things to be on the safe side in case something was not accepted. So glad it is done and over with. Should get it within a few weeks by mail. But, the expiration date does not change so next year or the year after we will have to renew the DL but can just do it online.
     

    leebee

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 14, 1999
    I wonder if my birth certificate IS going to be accepted. It lists both parents name, but all 4 of us kids are on it, each with our full names and date of birth. It's a legal certificate, issued in the city in which we were all born, and has a raised/embossed seal.
     

    CoffeeKitten

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    May 17, 2019
    In Ohio, if the names on BC and Passport DO NOT match, you have to show proof how they connect. (Marriage Certificate) Go to Ohio BMV and you will see you must show proof.

    Back then, my Marriage Certificate was a valid document. It is given by the county in PA with a number and signed by the commissioner. It does not have a seal. That's where the issue lies. I was able to obtain my DL and Passport using that copy too. I used that document every time I needed to show proof with no problems. But that was years ago and now it is obviously no longer accepted. Sometime in the last 19 years, they changed it. (I did do a google search to see if women in that county were complaining. A local TV station website had a post about REAL ID and many women in the comments were saying the same thing I did.)

    So, the reality is that the Marriage Certificate was once valid enough is not valid anymore. Probably they were easy to forge, idk :confused3 totally guessing. Or maybe the states thought of another way to gain revenue. ;)
    This exactly!! I was married in '99 and immediately had my name changed. I've had a Midwest state DL, one in California, and just a couple years ago a Real ID Colorado DL. All of my original paperwork (like my marriage certificate) were acceptable documents. I moved back to the Midwest and all of a sudden my 20 year old marriage certificate was no good. I was married in a small town courthouse but I guess my marriage certificate wasn't certified with a raised seal. I had to call the courthouse in another state (where I was married). Then I had to send an actual real, physical letter requesting a new certified copy. Only then would they issue my new DL. It was annoying and such a hassle!
     
  • NYCgrrl

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2017
    Some birth certificates were printed in a negative printing process. I was at my country recorder's office trying to get a copy of our marriage certificate (they also handle birth certificates). When they had a computer issue they said that they could pull a copy of it from their microfilm records. It's my understanding that the original eventually goes to the the State of California for archiving. However, I'm thinking that was more common back in the 1970s compared to today when laser printing is common. They must have used some sort of photographic process that was really old, since a lot of government agencies were slow to adopt new tech if the old tech was already paid for.

    The State Dept requires some sort of seal. The most common is an embossed seal, but there are other way like a multicolored stamp or maybe a holographic seal.
    You mean the document is black with white letters and the paper is a little glossy? That's the type my older sister and I have but by the time youngest sister was born the paper, method of printing, and color had changed. All have a raised seal, were issued by the same city, and are still accepted by the Feds to get a passport.
     

    bcla

    On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
    Joined
    Nov 28, 2012
    You mean the document is black with white letters and the paper is a little glossy? That's the type my older sister and I have but by the time youngest sister was born the paper, method of printing, and color had changed. All have a raised seal, were issued by the same city, and are still accepted by the Feds to get a passport.
    It took me a while to look up the term for the most common process. It was the Photostat from the Photostat Corp. It was possible to make a positive copy by making a copy of a copy, but for the most part a single copy would be made since it was easy enough to read white on dark. Here's a college transcript:



    I've heard they were still being used even though photocopiers were available - probably because the equipment was already paid for and photocopiers were pretty expensive back in the 70s/80s.
     

    NYCgrrl

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2017
    ^^^
    That's what it is called-photostatting! I kept thinking of mimeographing but knew that was a different process:).
    Had no idea it was still in use anywhere.

    Yes, when photocopiers first came out only one or two persons were allowed to make copies on it in an entire office. On the bright side nobody could send you a wedding invitation using the office Xerox machine....
     

    bcla

    On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
    Joined
    Nov 28, 2012
    ^^^
    That's what it is called-photostatting! I kept thinking of mimeographing but knew that was a different process:).
    Had no idea it was still in use anywhere.

    Yes, when photocopiers first came out only one or two persons were allowed to make copies on it in an entire office. On the bright side nobody could send you a wedding invitation using the office Xerox machine....
    Commercial photocopying was around since the 1960s. Xerox came out with its first commercial photocopier in 1959. I remember seeing a photocopier at my local library in the late 70s. It was a huge machine and believe it was 15 cents a copy. The machine was really loud, and multiple copies would be made individually. I'm pretty sure that was the original process of exposing the drum each time from the original image. The paper was also glossy, which I suppose was needed for that era of toner.

    These days there's no true photocopiers like the ones from my youth. They're nearly all scanners with laser printing. When I went to get copies of vital records, I've seen them come out of laser printers. One time the clerk asked me how big I wanted the information. At least where I've gotten them the original document was scanned and then a clerk could print them on the official paper. One time when they were having some difficulties with their IT system, the clerk said that if I was willing to wait she could have a copy printed using a version stored on microfilm.
     

    bcla

    On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
    Joined
    Nov 28, 2012
    So - total aside, but today was my appointment at my local DMV office. It was for right at opening and I saw two lines forming - five with appointments and over a dozen hoping to walk in. We weren’t sure what was happening since nobody was inside. Everything looked normal outside. This was the earliest appointment I could get - made in September.

    Opening time came and still nothing. No sign indicated it was closed and the printed hours included Saturday. Then I checked the California DMV website for this office and saw this:

    • All DMV field offices will be closed November 28 through December 1 in observance of Thanksgiving.
    Figures that nobody coordinated their holiday hours with their appointment system
     

    lynxstch

    I Love Figment
    Joined
    Feb 2, 2001
    I made an appt for 9:15 this morning this past Tuesday. I got there at 9. There was only one other person in there. Obviously an appointment wasn't needed today at all! After bringing everything they said on the website ( which they said included copies of marriage licenses, divorce decrees, etc), all they wanted to see was driver's license, SS card, birth certificate and 2 proofs of residency. I was out of there by 9:10. They will mail the ID to me this week. Guess it depends on which state you are in what they actually ask for!
     

    bcla

    On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
    Joined
    Nov 28, 2012
    Just spent maybe 90 minutes at my local DMV office. I had already applied online and was ready for my Saturday appointment for a closed office.

    It wasn’t too bad other than the relatively short wait. I’d heard of 5 hour walk-in wait times. Two desks at the front taking in both appointments and walk-ins plus one at the front doing some express transactions such as registrations. I got a number and waited another half hour. I arrived with my current DL, a US passport, original SSN card, an old credit card statement, a credit card mailer (sheet that had a new card), and a property tax statement. The clerk preferred the card statement to the mailer even though it was old. I got a new photo and was even asked if I wanted a hyphen back in my name that lost years ago when I was told they could no longer enter hyphenated names. I wasn’t asked for an eye test. I could read the eye chart easily even though my prescription needs updating.

    I just need to wait for it to arrive in the mail.
     

    lovesmurfs

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 24, 2006
    Mine was fairly painless to get -- although I changed my name when I married, my Social Security card, passport and current driver's license is all in my married name, so they didn't require the marriage license.

    My biggest problem is that they required 2 mailed utility or other bills, not photocopied. All of my bills and health explanation of benefits statements are delivered electronically, and the ones that aren't have my husband's name, not mine, on it. Finally found them, but it was a real PITA that I hadn't expected as I was preparing for the DMV trip.
     

    lynxstch

    I Love Figment
    Joined
    Feb 2, 2001
    Mine was fairly painless to get -- although I changed my name when I married, my Social Security card, passport and current driver's license is all in my married name, so they didn't require the marriage license.

    My biggest problem is that they required 2 mailed utility or other bills, not photocopied. All of my bills and health explanation of benefits statements are delivered electronically, and the ones that aren't have my husband's name, not mine, on it. Finally found them, but it was a real PITA that I hadn't expected as I was preparing for the DMV trip.


    To the bolded. We receive and pay almost all of our bills online. They had no issue with my printing them out from the websites. They didn't say they had to be 'mailed' proof of residency. All I did was print a copy of our homeowners insurance and a copy of the electric bill (which are in both of our names) from online. They took them and made their own copies of them.
     

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