Re-framing the Conversation

[catra121]

I am a HUGE Disney fan...and I personally don't feel the same way as you at all about the conversation or that there is a need to reframe it. MANY Disney fans...even those on the DIS love everything Disney is doing.

I believe that the impact of the new things Disney has been doing and the changes they are making don't work for everyone...and that upsets people. Those upset people in turn being to see everything negatively and it casts a negative light on everything else. They look for people to blame for why their experience has changed for the worse and to come up with reasons why.

There are also a large group of people who don't like change. I see it all the time and I see it every day at work and every time the company I work for rolls out a new process of any kind (and they do this OFTEN). People instantly say it won't work, things will be terrible, what we did before worked so why are we changing, etc. This is human nature I guess...and anyone that decides to make a change should EXPECT a large group of people to resist and a lot of negativity. What you need in those situations is a change agent of some kind who can lead you through that change and who can take those people on the fence and convince them of the benefits of this change. There is nothing...nothing at all...that can be done with those people who are change resisters. Nothing will change their attitude about the change...until it becomes the norm for them. Once it is the norm...it's no longer a change...and they will have adjusted to it and they will be fine.

Disney knew that lots of people would resist the changes they are making and they knew they would lose some customers. Not saying they WANT to lose customers...just that they had to know it was an inevitability as it would be with any big change. Keeping things the same wasn't working. What's the definition of crazy? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Disney obviously was looking for a different result...whether that's growth, whether that's leveling the playing field among guests, whether that's reaching out to a different generation, or one of a million other things I can't even possibly imagine...I do not know. And unlike the people upset over the changes being made...I don't put either a positive or negative spin on these assumptions I am making. Disney is a business...that's a fact. They are in the business to make money...also a fact. I don't see that as a negative frame work for anything...but people who are already upset will see it as a negative framework...like Disney is somehow selfish or greedy because they make business decisions. I just don't see it.

I don't think there's any way that Disney can frame the conversation about the changes being made that will impact the way that people who DON'T like the changes see things. Those people questioning the changes...Disney has already given them all the positives...but all the detractors have also given them the negatives over and over and over and over and over again. It's not like the situations I see in a work setting in the sense that you can have a change agent at the top who is there every step of the way through the process being it's cheerleader, talking up the positives, addressing any problems as they happen in real time and fixing them as they occur. It's too big for that...they can't be with their guests every step of the way...especially when a large chunk of the negative feedback and comments are coming from people who have not used the system and will never use the system because they don't want to spend their vacation dollars for a vacation that they already know will not be to their liking (and I don't fault those people for that btw...they are well within their rights and are showing a lot of sense to NOT spend their money on something they will not enjoy).

I honestly believe that Disney has done as good a job with the rollout of their changes as possible. Seriously...it's not flawless...and expecting it to be flawless is very unrealistic. My experience with FP+ and MM+ and MDE...these were all wonderful. The people I have talked to who knew nothing about these changes are very excited to try them out and also think they are great. So then when I talk about the other things like the Mine Train, the new parade, or Avatarland...they are excited about those too. It's not because I am presenting anything different to these people than Disney has...they just aren't being exposed to the negatives like the people on this board.

I don't know if any of what I have said makes sense...I'm not a marketing person and my only experiences with implementing changes has been what I've experienced at work. I am often considered the change agent for my store...I eat up change and love implementing new processes. I definitely understand what you are saying about how the perception people have going in coloring the way they view everything else. If they already have a negative perception going in...then it will cast a negative light on everything else. The problem is...the negative light is not coming from Disney (some of the individual CMs...yes...but not the company)...it's coming from guests and Disney has NO control over those conversations that are happening.

 

[MadToad]

I'm not someone who comes to the DIS for positives and hates to read criticism. In fact, I find that complains can be some of the most interesting discussions. I work in Marketing and Business Development, and we focus a lot of attention on framing the message. No matter how good your services, it only works if the framing is done well.

I think Disney is running into this problem with a lot of their recent decisions. Stay with me. This isn't another negative rant. What I mean is that the perception (at least among many fans) is that Disney is looking at the bottom line and has lost the interest in new attractions. Once this frame is in place, whatever they do falls into that bucket. Even if that had a reason to raise ticket prices that made sense (I've heard many), it's still in that frame. FP+ may have hidden benefits, but they're selling it on deaf ears.

They're also stuck with the theme that they're a giant organization of MBA graduates that moves slowly and can't get anything done. The fact that Avatar is taking so long to build and the Snow White Mine Train still isn't open reinforces that theme. It's hard to sell magic with construction walls everywhere.

So what can Disney do? I think they really need to announce something big prior to the opening of Diagon Alley. While I'd prefer an amazing new ride, even re-theming a section of DHS to Star Wars that's just a restaurant and shops would get a lot of positive attention. Look at how much praise Universal got for Springfield, which is mostly well-themed food places! If they want to build positive momentum, they need to re-frame the discussion or risk losing the argument before it even begins.

I'm a huge fan of the Disney parks and subscribe to several fan magazines. I've found myself questioning the articles about "magic" in Celebrations Magazine because they come off false given the happenings at the parks in the past year. This is an example of how the framing in my brain has impacted even innocent articles from fans that I'd normally like. I think this is happening on the DIS, and I can't blame people for it.

So what can Disney do to re-frame the conversation among fans?

Interesting post...
It takes me to the age old adage "Know Thy Audience". The problem as I see it, is that most people on these message boards believe they are the Disney's audience as the current changes are implemented. I'm not so sure we are.

From an alternate perspective, by instituting the MB system, of which FP+ is a part of, Disney appears to be appealing to the more casual WDW visitor, or at least attempting to. Many of the statistics regarding the legacy FP system found that the average WDW user did not rely on FastPass. While I personally would get 6 FastPasses easily in the MK, the typical WDW guest appears to have only gotten 1 or 2 - this appears to be the guest that WDW is targeting, making them the "audience" in question.

In doing so, Disney risks losing a percentage of other groups, such as those that frequent The Dis. But to what extent? If Disney expands the causal WDW visitor by 5% annually but loses 15% of their core visitors, attendance numbers increase dramatically.

There's a lot here - way too much to lay out on a message board post. But it's all pretty fascinating.

As far as other parks competing with Disney, such as Universal, are a non-issue. Disney is the lead dog - by a substantial margin. You don't stay Lead Dog by looking over your shoulder, you do it by innovating and accepting/implementing change. Disney will easily absorb the current changes if they fail. Having said that, change is inevitable. Disney will eventually fall, just not today (or really tomorrow - it's a looong way off).

Thanks for the post!

 

[surferdave]

How is Disney being complacent? You may not like where they are investing, but they are investing heavily in their future.

I believe they are being complacent in guest satisfaction and entertainment. They may be investing heavily in the parks but not so much to improve guest experience; like our insomniac friend above, they don't believe they have to.

 

[flutterby3744]

Here is my $.02:

I think I fall right smack in the middle of Disney's target market. We are a middle class family with children in a wide age range (4 kids ages 20-6, Adult, teen, tween, and child...you name it we've got it ). I am a 3rd generation Disney lover, but not necessarily followers of all things Disney. Our typical Disney vacation is every few years or so. We prefer staying onsite, but have stayed offsite in the past.

Could Disney do more with PR? Absolutely! I love the idea about more random magic! But is it hurting their company to slide by with the mega brand that is already out there? Doubtful.

As for the FP+ and MB....I've been reading all of the peoples opinions on here, and honestly I'm confused. I understand that people don't like change, but did people honestly think that they were going to use the paper fast passes forever? Seriously. In this day where you can control literally EVERYTHING about your life in an app. People REALLY thought that Disney wouldn't "tech" up their system????

I'm sure that there will be some press about long lines etc during this "testing" phase, but I would bet a large amount of money that Disney will have their cheese together soon. After all, time spent in line at a kiosk, is time taken away from possible spending. NO ONE knows this better than Disney. Give it a few weeks, and you will see more kiosks pop up, and software bugs will get worked out.

And honestly, if we weren't currently planning a WDW vacation, or if I had never stumbled onto this board, I wouldn't even know about FP+ or any of the problems they are experiencing. I for one, am looking forward to them. We weren't big FP people anyway, and I'm a supporter of on-site guest perks. Sorry that people have to wait in line to get FP because they are staying at the Super 8 down the road, but that's the breaks man. By staying on-site I'm paying for a better experience, I should get it. The only exception to this would be AP holders...they should absolutely get the same perks as on-site guests, ESPECIALLY FL residents.

As for more attractions: of course they are always welcome. But they ARE adding attractions. They are weeks away from opening 7D, and they just broke ground on Avatar. We haven't seen any part of the new Fantasyland yet, so I can not tell you how excited I am to see it!!! New to me! And Avatar has the potential to be mind blowing, especially if they utilize some of the newer tech that the worldwide WDW parks have. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if HS was next on the list of rehabs. With Star Wars and Marvel the potential, again, is huge to really amp up that park. I'm not worried at all about the future of Disney attractions. They are announcing new projects on a regular basis, and I'm looking forward to what's next!

Again, just my opinion, but I think Disney is on the right track.

 

[dwheaton]

It's great to hear all the different thoughts on this topic. I figured it was an interesting subject if nothing else and not just about FP+.

When I'm thinking in terms of the brand, I don't mean the Disney company in general. That's set in stone and obviously still one of the major players in the entertainment world.

I'm more concerned with Disney World in particular and how it's being presented (and set up) to the public. Yes, there's the Mine Train and new parade and Avatar down the road. However, many of us grew up during the Eisner days when the parks were the focus. I was 13 years old when DHS opened and 22 when DAK opened. When I was a kid, Disney opened EPCOT, Splash Mountain, the ToT, and so many other iconic attractions. There was something new every time at each park! Disney World made its name and grew exponentially more popular during that time.

So I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who's focused on the attractions and what they mean to the park. In terms of that framework, I'm not seeing it at Disney right now, and I'm far from the only one. With Marvel and Star Wars, they can easily regain that footing for me. I just wish there was more focus on it.

 

[Jennasis]

You mentioned that Disney needs a "huge" announcement before Diagon Alley opens....guess what- Disney has been advertising Maleficent nonstop on t.v. and people are going to say " hey, let's go see the movie in June"----then they'll want to meet Sleeping Beauty and Maleficent in the Disney parks.

I haven't seen a single ad for Maleficent on television since the Super Bowl.

In this day where you can control literally EVERYTHING about your life in an app. People REALLY thought that Disney wouldn't "tech" up their system????
.

Oh they "tech'd" it up...they tech'd it up real good.


Bottom line, there are people who are happy with the direction the company is going in and there are some who are unhappy with it, as with everything in life. Makes for some lively discussion though doesn't it?

 

[kbelle8995]

Is this comparing apples to Oranges? But I keep thinking about JcPenny. They had customers who were happy with the stores and the way they handled business.

Bring in a new manager. Discontinue old brands and discounts. Bring in new products to bring in a younger hipper customer and look what happens. They failed to attract new customers and lost their old ones.

Now I think Disney is on sturdier ground but Hey wierder things have happened.

I think that with Disney people expect more when you are charging them higher prices. With those higher prices comes higher expectations.

 

[flutterby3744]

I'm more concerned with Disney World in particular and how it's being presented (and set up) to the public. Yes, there's the Mine Train and new parade and Avatar down the road. However, many of us grew up during the Eisner days when the parks were the focus. I was 13 years old when DHS opened and 22 when DAK opened. When I was a kid, Disney opened EPCOT, Splash Mountain, the ToT, and so many other iconic attractions. There was something new every time at each park! Disney World made its name and grew exponentially more popular during that time.

So I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who's focused on the attractions and what they mean to the park. In terms of that framework, I'm not seeing it at Disney right now, and I'm far from the only one. With Marvel and Star Wars, they can easily regain that footing for me. I just wish there was more focus on it.

Maybe it's just a difference in opinion here, or a difference in interests, but I absolutely see Disney doing just what you mentioned. The average person does not go to WDW every year, or even every other year. In my own experience, I have seen something new every time I've been there. And not just one small attraction, like BIG new. My Disney life started as a baby at Disneyland, where we went every year until I was about 5. My first trip to WDW was a year after Epcot opened, and have gone on average every 4 years since. This trip Fantasyland will be new to me (in addition to new smaller things), and next time I go will probably be Avatar. I'm cool with that. I would rather see Disney put there time, money, and energy into one large, omg project at a time, rather than small meh projects. And if I am blessed enough to go back sooner than Avatar opening, and there is absolutely nothing new...well I'm ok with that too! I just love WDW regardless!

 

[kidd_freeper]

I think the management at WDW see intangible benefits to FP+

They will have better knowledge of guest habits, the will know what the most popular attractions are and more importantly, they will know what kind of attendance to expect in a park.

This allows them to refine their very expensive maintenance schedules, staffing levels, food preparation costs, etc.

I don't think guests will ever see much improvement from FP+, but WDW may be able to significantly lower operating costs

 

[JanaDee]

I haven't seen a single ad for Maleficent on television since the Super Bowl.

I haven't ever seen a commercial for Maleficent and I watch a lot of TV (in the evenings, post 6pm).

 

[ArwenMarie]

I think they are trying to reframe the conversation by promoting the resorts. Remember those resort commercials that were just out...trying to promote the idea that the vacation isn't just about the parks, it's also about your onsite resort and all you can do there.

Same idea behind promoting various activities in the Mickey mail. It's why they have mini-golf and bowling and fishing and all that. It's why they are re-doing DTD.

I really think they want people spending about six hours at a park. 3 FPs, a show or parade and a meal. Then they want you doing other stuff, out of the parks, but onsite.

Anyway, I think the reframe is in motion, take it or leave it.

 

[ArwenMarie]

OP, I agree. But I just think they are too busy trying to lasso the genie they just unleashed.

My interest in FP+ is more than personal. I find it to be a fascinating study in marketing. I'm genuinely curious where they are headed next.

It really is fascinating. Like watching a very slow-moving reality show.

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

I haven't seen a single ad for Maleficent on television since the Super Bowl.



Oh they "tech'd" it up...they tech'd it up real good.


Bottom line, there are people who are happy with the direction the company is going in and there are some who are unhappy with it, as with everything in life. Makes for some lively discussion though doesn't it?

Haha! Fair enough....and might I add this is the first time I have heard about Springfield World at Universal. I had to search on the internet for it.....looks good though.

 

[dwheaton]

I think they are trying to reframe the conversation by promoting the resorts. Remember those resort commercials that were just out...trying to promote the idea that the vacation isn't just about the parks, it's also about your onsite resort and all you can do there.

Same idea behind promoting various activities in the Mickey mail. It's why they have mini-golf and bowling and fishing and all that. It's why they are re-doing DTD.

I really think they want people spending about six hours at a park. 3 FPs, a show or parade and a meal. Then they want you doing other stuff, out of the parks, but onsite.

Anyway, I think the reframe is in motion, take it or leave it.

Interesting. While the resorts are nice, I'm not sure that's a sound way to grow the business given the per-night costs of staying there.

Even so, I can totally see the reasons why they'd do it, and I'd be thrilled if people followed that trend. It might lessen the congestion that we're currently seeing. Of course, that might be wishful thinking....

 

[SuperRob]

If businesses succeed at least partially on good word of mouth then the opposite should be true too. You can't expect people to spread good news and ignore what they see as bad news. That's just human nature.

Except that it's not equal. Studies have shown that negative reviews spread 5-10 times further than positive ones.

 

[flicx]

It's great to hear all the different thoughts on this topic. I figured it was an interesting subject if nothing else and not just about FP+.

When I'm thinking in terms of the brand, I don't mean the Disney company in general. That's set in stone and obviously still one of the major players in the entertainment world.

I'm more concerned with Disney World in particular and how it's being presented (and set up) to the public. Yes, there's the Mine Train and new parade and Avatar down the road. However, many of us grew up during the Eisner days when the parks were the focus. I was 13 years old when DHS opened and 22 when DAK opened. When I was a kid, Disney opened EPCOT, Splash Mountain, the ToT, and so many other iconic attractions. There was something new every time at each park! Disney World made its name and grew exponentially more popular during that time.

So I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who's focused on the attractions and what they mean to the park. In terms of that framework, I'm not seeing it at Disney right now, and I'm far from the only one. With Marvel and Star Wars, they can easily regain that footing for me. I just wish there was more focus on it.

This is exactly right. The Eisner years are the foundation for alot of what Disney world is now. The man was made into a villain but compare his reign to the current one and it isn't even close. Imagine if he never was there and they did what is currently going on. We would have 2 parks and an occasional refurb, maybe a new ride every three to five years. The profit is coming from that era, not the Iger era. I personally like they Eisner era but hey that's my opinion.

 

[disnut8]

I haven't read through all the posts but I'm going back to Disney World for the first time since last Labor Day. That was a trip I wish I could forget - I was in a wheelchair due to health issues and since then, I've lost my father who, back in 1978, was so impressed by Disney World he kept standing on our campsite at Fort Wilderness with his hands on his hips, looking at the swan on the little steam behind our trailer and saying, "how did they do this?" He was a truck driver and could read maps out the wazoo but a special moment for me (at the age of 15) was showing him, on the Fort Wilderness map, was how we could be facing the way we were. He was amazed and that sealed it for me.

Disney World is so much more than just rides. I wish I could give that feeling to others so they can enjoy before the most important others in their lives aren't there anymore to enjoy things with them.

I know this is very off topic here but think about it. Disney World is a "place". You spend money to go there. But what you do there is the important thing in your life. And with others that you do it with. So enjoy while you can.

 

[sassie_kat]

That doesn't mean they will always remain so. People plan Disney trips a long ways in advance. Fallout from a bad business decision doesn't necessarily show up overnight.

Exactly this. I would LOVE it if I was able to travel to Disney every single year. I about fell over when my BIL suggested a trip again this March AND saw that it was affordable(ish) for our family of 5 even with airfare. I was really disappointed when my husband veto-ed it b/c we hadn't done our taxes yet and didn't know if we'd be getting a refund or not. But, I turned my attention to planning our 2016 trip (also known as Kat's Epic 40th Birthday Trip) with the hopes that that would be enough for now. Except that every time I turn around I'm hearing from another friend who had a bad experience. I'm reading another story about how frustrating it is to only have 3 FPs.

I'm still saving my money with a vengeance but, if things don't change I'm willing to consider spending that money somewhere else for my birthday trip. I don't want to . . . I really want this to be an amazing Disney trip but I don't want to spend it frustrated or disappointed after saving for over 2 year.s

 

[dwheaton]

This is exactly right. The Eisner years are the foundation for alot of what Disney world is now. The man was made into a villain but compare his reign to the current one and it isn't even close. Imagine if he never was there and they did what is currently going on. We would have 2 parks and an occasional refurb, maybe a new ride every three to five years. The profit is coming from that era, not the Iger era. I personally like they Eisner era but hey that's my opinion.

I think Eisner erred with going cheap with DCA and not adding the lands they expected to add with DAK. However, part of the issues with both were the drop in the tourism industry after 9/11.

That said, I look back really fondly on those years. Eisner did expand the resorts and start the creation of the more expensive Disney Parks we see today. However, he understood that it only really worked if you combined those price increases and new resorts with new attractions. To me, that's the biggest difference between the Eisner and Iger regimes. Eisner also wanted to be Walt Disney and build that legacy. I don't see that connection with the current leaders.

 

[jensen]

Managing expectations has been Disney's real problem through this whole thing. The problem with a company that makes "magic" is that sometimes you don't pull off the trick every time. Most of those "street magic" TV shows are edited so they don't show you the times the trick doesn't work.

We're getting it all unedited, here.

My real problem, though is that we're all just as much to blame regarding those expectations as Disney. Some of us "veterans" had just unrealistic expectations that this was going to be perfect. Some of us refused to see any positives for what they were, and suggested that the new limitations were disastrous. Not to mention all the FUD being spread about how Disney was turning into "Big Brother" and tracking us everywhere we go, even into the Tangled Bathrooms!

I don't mind people telling the truth. I do mind when they do it in such an overwhelmingly negative fashion that they now start coloring the expectations of others who might not know that anything has changed and could have a great trip anyway. Those people just keep hearing how it all sucks, and that's a lot of money to spend for that kind of experience. Well, it doesn't suck. Maybe it did for some people, but those people didn't put themselves in a situation where they were willing to have a good time despite any problems that occur.

Wow! You read my mind! These boards had me so freaked out that I was certain our vacation last month was going to be our worst experience. Thank goodness I didn't let DH and the kids in on my concerns... they went into it with completely open minds... and guess what? We had our best trip ever!!!

Disney announcing new experiences or attractions to counter-program against Diagon Alley isn't the answer. Honestly, the best thing Disney could do is hire more people and raise the quality of service that we all know Disney is capable of. Go around the parks and spread a little spontaneous magic. Those stories we all love to hear about the kid to leg go of his balloon and started to cry, and a cast member comes out of nowhere with another balloon. That time when a cast member pulled you out of line and took you to a special meet & greet with a character because they saw the character on your shirt. The "Year of a Million Dreams" promotion was popular because of that spontaneity. For a lot of people, it's those little moments they didn't expect that make a trip magic.

In short, if I were in charge, I'd announce the theme for the coming year would be "Expect the Unexpected". And I'd make sure that every cast member at every park or restaurant or hotel were empowered to make magic happen as they see fit. I bet it would be a heck of a thing.

Love this suggestion!