Rationalization

[chobie]

So, since they have figured out that they do have to tell people what the policy is, then why don't they let it be known before people buy them?

 

[Reflection]

...People see their time in queue as a burden because other, less moral people are spending much less time in queue and getting the same service. After a threshold, the practice begins to incentise people to be violators more than the decency incentives them to be moral. A community has the right and obligation to condemn any action that would lead towards such a death-spiral.

I completely agree with this view. There are times, however, especially on the various boards, when it seems to me that community outrage and condemnation (a pretty good incentive, I'd say, for the behavior/practice outlined above) is stopped by the 'don't comment or judge until you've walked a mile in my shoes brigade.'

This is a great thread and offers lots of food for thought.

 

[Reflection]

....I amazes me that people really care all that much about splitting hairs so much that this is such an issue. (when they start thread after thread about where you can used the darned things)

Especially after they have spent a few thousand dollars on a vacation--are the cost savings from consuming that much soda really that signficant? Enough of the refillable mugs....

Why is it that people who knowingly break rules justify the behavior with the thought/notion that their behavior/action has no impact on others?

Line jumping, lying about a child's age for price breaks, treating the fixin's bar as a personal salad bar, consuming the majority of food and beverage items in concierge, for examples, are actions that do affect others.

 

[chobie]

I completely agree with this view. There are times, however, especially on the various boards, when it seems to me that community outrage and condemnation (a pretty good incentive, I'd say, for the behavior/practice outlined above) is stopped by the 'don't comment or judge until you've walked a mile in my shoes brigade.'

This is a great thread and offers lots of food for thought.

Really, people use the don't judge until you've walked a mile in my shoes for refillable mug threads?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Either way, who cares what any one person thinks as long as they are not knowlingly violating a rule?

Ingnorance of the rules or the law is not a valid defense.

 

[poohandwendy]

Line jumping, lying about a child's age for price breaks, treating the fixin's bar as a personal salad bar, consuming the majority of food and beverage items in concierge, for examples, are actions that do affect others.

What is interesting to me is that if people do not see the a clear line from a to b (my actions-directly affecting others), they seem to assume the action is small enough to not matter. If it affects the corporations bottom line even in a small way, why isn't that enough?

It's like outright lie vs 'white lie'....

I mean, the issue is refillable mugs for the length of your stay, at the resort of your stay. It is marked ON THE MUG for petes sake. If there is any confusion whatsoever, there are CMs every 10 feet you can ask. Disney should not have to plaster it all over the place to have a reasonable expectation that people should follow it. They aren't robbing people, not pulling the wool over anyones eyes. The limitations are not unreasonable. I really do not understand how that can turn into a shade of gray...maybe right/maybe wrong issue?

For goodness sakes, adults should not need the rules spoonfed to them.

 

[Reflection]

Really, people use the don't judge until you've walked a mile in my shoes for refillable mug threads?

Not for refillable mug threads, as far as I can recall, but for passing the 3-year-old off as a 2-year-old, older kids in strollers, taking school-aged kids out of the school for the regular family trip to WDW threads, oh my yes.

As for the parenting threads, I'm not going there....

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

start thowing pixie dust bombs at each other.

Hmmm...wonder what that would look like.

 

[chobie]

What is interesting to me is that if people do not see the a clear line from a to b (my actions-directly affecting others), they seem to assume the action is small enough to not matter.

It's like outright lie vs 'white lie'....

I mean, the issue is refillable mugs for the length of your stay, at the resort of your stay. It is marked ON THE MUG for petes sake. If there is any confusion whatsoever, there are CMs every 10 feet you can ask. Disney should not have to plaster it all over the place to have a reasonable expectation that people should follow it. They aren't robbing people, not pulling the wool over anyones eyes. The limitations are not unreasonable. I really do not understand how that can turn into a shade of gray...maybe right/maybe wrong issue?

For goodness sakes, adults should not need the rules spoonfed to them.

At PC there is a big display of mugs with a sign that says unlimited refills and that is all it says. Yes, the policy is written on the mugs, sideways, in tiny print. It is unreasonable, IMO, to expect people to see that when they first buy them.

And as for asking the CM, I had my DH do that, just because of all these threads...and the CM told him he could bring them back and reuse them at another stay. And many others have reported this same thing being said to them and the people who have an issue with people reusing the mugs have all sorts of rationalizations for this (they cms don't want to offend the customers etc)

So, IMO, WDW is causing part of this problem. Sure, blame the people who did not see the 4point font policy, because they did not turn their cup over sideways and read the that is obscured by the handle, but I think WDW is not helping the situation.

No they don't have to plaster it all over, but they could put it on the sign and IMO that would be a reasonable thing to do.

No, we won't do it despite what the CM said --so spare me the lecture.

 

[poohandwendy]

At PC there is a big display of mugs with a sign that says unlimited refills and that is all it says. Yes, the policy is written on the mugs, sideways, in tiny print. It is unreasonable, IMO, to expect people to see that when they first buy them.

And as for asking the CM, I had my DH do that, just because of all these threads...and the CM told him he could bring them back and reuse them at another stay. And many others have reported this same thing being said to them and the people who have an issue with people reusing the mugs have all sorts of rationalizations for this (they cms don't want to offend the customers etc)

So, IMO, WDW is causing part of this problem. Sure, blame the people who did not see the 4point font policy, because they did not turn their cup over sideways and read the that is obscured by the handle, but I think WDW is not helping the situation.

No they don't have to plaster it all over, but they could put it on the sign and IMO that would be a reasonable thing to do.

No, we won't do it despite what the CM said --so spare me the lecture.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I do think it is unreasonable for people to require more than what is currently offered before making the refillable mug 'investment'. I suspect people will still do whatever they want to do, no matter what is posted.

If a CM gives out incorrect info, yes that is a problem WDW will have to deal with. As with anything else.

 

[Reflection]

If it affects the corporations bottom line even in a small way, why isn't that enough?

I think some of these folks think 'well WDW (or fill in the name of another mega corporation) already has so much money, and the money I save from not buying the correct ticket for my child, eating food items I did not pay for, etc, will be spent on souveniers or some other item.

Does not compute to me, but I've read posts justifying the above with statements along the line of, 'after all, it is a personal decision and so you have to do what is best for you and your family.'

 

[chobie]

We will just have to agree to disagree. I do think it is unreasonable for people to require more than what is currently offered before making the refillable mug 'investment'. I suspect people will still do whatever they want to do, no matter what is posted.

If a CM gives out incorrect info, yes that is a problem WDW will have to deal with. As with anything else.

What is currently offered, before one scrutinzes evey milimeter of the mug to find the policy, is a refillable mug. Why one would think that means for anymore than that particular time they are in the food court and they can leave the food court and come back an refill it (afterall, you can't leave McDonald's and go back later in the day for more refills) is no more of leap to me then thinking they can bring it back on another visit.

 

[MAKmom]

Has anyone else gotten the feeling that there have been a lot more postings, recently, from people trying to get ratification for bad behavior that they planned to commit? I wonder what it is about this time of year that might cause that.

The time of year is summer vacation planning. The ratification for bad behavior is from guilt. IMO

I also agree with your post on how society has changed with different cultural norms.

What I have realized over the past few years is how NORMAL is different for families. I am a rule follower. I was raised to follow the rules.

I have met people who were raised in what I feel is insanity. Stealing was a norm. Mom at the bar was a norm. Abuse of the worst kind was the norm. I can go back 4 generation with this family & normal has a different meaning for them.

The point I'm trying to make is we are the weirdos to some people.

What drives me crazy is the judging that goes on when a Can I do this thread starts. I don't understand the Moral Police Mentality some have. IMO it does more harm than good. I'm not saying do not answer just do not be nasty about it. This is how I feel...I'm not saying I'm right about everything. I do change my mind about things.

 

[poohandwendy]

Just for the fun of it, I pulled one of my CR mugs out of the back of the cabinet.

Under the handle, in red letters, 10pt font (I measured it) is the following:

Free refills until the end of your stay
Refills only at location purchased

Very easy to read, message clearly stated. I cannot imagine why any more effort is needed. Placing it anywhere else on the mug would take away from the design. JMHO

ETA, I didn't need to scrutinize every millimeter of the mug...it was pretty easy to notice.

 

[chobie]

Just for the fun of it, I pulled one of my CR mugs out of the back of the cabinet.

Under the handle, in red letters, 10pt font (I measured it) is the following:

Free refills until the end of your stay
Refills only at location purchased

Very easy to read, message clearly stated. I cannot imagine why any more effort is needed. Placing it anywhere else on the mug would take away from the design. JMHO

Just for fun, mine is a PC mug, the policy is in white, I didn't measure the font but it is very tiny and smaller then the Disney logo that is next to it. and they wouldn't have to place it on the mug at all if they made put the policy on the same huge sign they use to push the mugs.

It's almost invisible in white on my mug.

But measuring font size --talk about splitting hairs.

 

[poohandwendy]

LOL, I would be willing to bet that they put it on the mug because that is a permanent reminder. When someone says "I didn't see a sign...there was no sign...you didn't disclose the rules" They can say, you are holding the rules in your hand.

Yes, it is totally splitting hairs, but it is a rule, it is disclosed. There is no bait and switch or shady move here. It's pretty simple.

Btw, you brought the issue of where the rules are posted and how small the font was, to the table. Not I. I can't understand why you would have an issue with it being discussed in depth?

 

[chobie]

LOL, I would be willing to bet that they put it on the mug because that is a permanent reminder. When someone says "I didn't see a sign...there was no sign...you didn't disclose the rules" They can say, you are holding the rules in your hand.

Yes, it is totally splitting hairs, but it is a rule, it is disclosed. There is no bait and switch or shady move here. It's pretty simple.

I agree that once a person has looked at every inch of their mug and read the fine print, they should not break the rule. But I do think its shady of them not to put on the sign and not to tell CMs to tell people the policy when asked.

 

[poohandwendy]

I agree that once a person has looked at every inch of their mug and read the fine print, they should not break the rule. But I do think its shady of them not to put on the sign and not to tell CMs to tell people the policy when asked.

Again, I will agree to disagree here. On my mug, it is perfectly easy to notice and read the rules.

Perhaps you should send your thoughts and concerns to WDW directly, so they can address the issue?

 

[chobie]

LOL, I would be willing to bet that they put it on the mug because that is a permanent reminder. When someone says "I didn't see a sign...there was no sign...you didn't disclose the rules" They can say, you are holding the rules in your hand.

Yes, it is totally splitting hairs, but it is a rule, it is disclosed. There is no bait and switch or shady move here. It's pretty simple.

Btw, you brought the issue of where the rules are posted and how small the font was, to the table. Not I. I can't understand why you would have an issue with it being discussed in depth?

You're the one who keeps bringing up splitting hairs as if there was something wrong with it. I don't have an issue with discussing in depth.

It's not clear on the mug, at least my mug, its certainly not disclosed on the huge sign advertising the mugs and when people ask CM's they are told they can bring them back. What is clear about that?

 

[chobie]

Again, I will agree to disagree here. On my mug, it is perfectly easy to notice and read the rules.

Perhaps you should send your thoughts and concerns to WDW directly, so they can address the issue?

Perhaps everyone should of instead of discussing this topic ad nauseum on the dis?

And again MY mug is not clear or easy to notice.

Even if the policy is easy to read on the mugs, why should those words be anymore sacred then the words that come out of the CM's mouths?