Ramp buses Warning!

[lisapooh]

Be very carefully enering the ramped buses if you use a power wheelchair. The ramp is fine if you get on at a resort with a curb but when you get on at one of the parks it is very steep and downright dangerous.
On returning from AK yesterday my power wheelchair would not go up the ramp. I indicated that it would not go up and I would wait for the next bus. I was rudely informed that the bus there was the only bus and I would have to use it. Then a driver pushed on the back of my wheelchair to help propel it up the ramp. I should have flat refused! My power wheelchair started to veer off the ramp and fall. Fortunately it did not fall but I was jerked about and am still sore and was very frightened. Of course I was b;amed for the chair veering off the ramp. "What did I do to cause it to veer?" I am angry that these drivers would put me in such a dangerous situation to start with. I could have been seriously injured.
Flat demand they provide a lift bus if yur power wheelchair has any problem getting on the bus ramp. Absolutely refuse and make a stink. Don't let them risk injuring you!

 

[Alaska]

Unfortunately Lisapooh it is my understanding that Disney is in the process of changing all of its buses to the lowered ramp version buses. It will be unfortunate if Disney makes a change to a bus that is less accomodating than the current buses. Our son also uses a power wheelchair. However, after reading the posts on this site we decided to take only his manual chair on our recent trip to WDW. Our experience with buses was less than optimal. Nearly every time we tried to take a bus somewhere, the first bus that showed up did not have an operational lift. It was almost exactly 50-50 odds for us having a bus show up that had a lift. Unfortunately, our son has a neuromuscular disorder which affects his skeletal muscle and he cannot sit up for very long without having trouble breathing. The bus situation meant that he had to wait twice as long as an ambulatory person to get a bus. If we ever go again, we will just budget for renting an accessible van. That will increase the budget by about $600 per week, but we know we will be able to get to the parks quicker. Also, I plan to write to Disney about the bus situation. Given that the busing did not seem to work out very well, we probably will scrap staying on property in the future. Our hotel bill from the last trip was nearly $4,000 and having to spend additional $$ on top of that to get an accessible van because the busing did not work out well seemed to take the "magic" out of staying at a Disney Resort.

I don't know if you had this experience, but we had to go up to the bus drivers each time and ask them to lower the lift. They acted as if they did not see our son. I think it is because some of them knew that their lifts were not operational and did not want to deal with any unpleasantness regarding the lack of lift. There is no way they could have missed seeing him because we parked his wheelchair right by the street and they drove right by him as they pulled up to the stop. Once we asked about the lift, they were all very pleasant and those who did not have operational lifts radioed to other buses for us. However, I find it hard to believe that there are so many buses with lifts with mechanical problems. Rather, I think someone at Disney has made a decision that loading wheelchairs takes too much time, so they have made it so that only so many buses have keys and levers for the lifts (the drivers who did not have operational lifts told us that they did not know why, but the keys and the levers were removed from the lifts).

We had heard that Disney was "backpeddling" on its policy of being accomodating to folks in wheelchairs and it appears that there may be some truth to that rumor. One of the newest rides added to the park requires a transfer to one of Disney's manual chairs. If you can't transfer, or if you need to use a manual chair other than one of Disney's you will not be able to ride that ride.

This is all too bad. When we were at WDW three years ago, we found the Disney transportation to be outstanding. We also found the CMs to be for the most part very supportive of any efforts to get folks in wheelchairs on rides. We were considering the Disney Vacation Club as it appeared that WDW would provide us with a vacation site with few accessibility and transportation issues. However, after our recent experience we think not. The distance we have to travel to Disney and the expense of staying on property are too great for a mediocre experience. I will have to say that the individual CMs we came into contact with were great. However, one of them casually explained to us when I was looking at a ride to see if it would be accessible for our son,that rides like Dumbo and some of the classics predated the ADA and therefore were not accessible. Hearing that make me rather sad. I think if Walt Disney was alive, he would probably support making rides accessible because he would want all families to be able to enjoy WDW, not just because he was forced by the ADA to address accessibility.

 

[lisapooh]

Actually I hit a couple of buses without lifts but in both instances the drivers radioed for another bus and it came fairly quickly. Two of the times it was at a theme park and the pulled the AK bus to take me to the Lodge. People were very nice about it.
Once it was at the AKL and was really in a hurry to be at MGM in time for the Beauty and the Beast show as I missed it in August and only one show is interpreted per day. I was really upset that the bus had no lift but another soon arrived. I just made the show btw and it was great.
I had a call from Disney today about another safety issue and told them about this incident. The woman was very apologetic and said that what happened was not Disney policy and she would be talking to the departments that handle the transportation and the training. We will see.
I am still seding a letter about this with the note that I have already spoken with Disney but wanted them to have it in writing.

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks for the warning, lisapooh. We are trying to decide whether to take DD's power or manual chair on our next trip. We haven't had a lot of trouble in the past with the buses, but it sounds like things are changing.

 

[seashoreCM]

Instead of renting a van, you could keep a diary of bus waiting and, if things are particularly bad, see if Guest Relations would give you some extra Fast Passes to make up for bus waits.

An easy way to sprinkle more pixie dust on a family burdened with a handicapped member and it doesn't cost Disney anything. A complimentary restaurant entree would also be fitting to ask for.

All the times I have observed, the driver operates the lift before boarding other passengers.

Other Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

Do not jump start cars with your power wheelchair, even if you are a Boy Scout (do a good turn daily). Can damage the battery and electrical system, either instantly or later when the weakened battery can't roll you home.

 

[Alaska]

While it is true that some drivers load the wheelchair before loading other folks, we still had to go and ask every driver if the lift on the bus was operational before they even got up from their seat to go back and let the lift down. They would start letting people come up the stairs to the bus and then when one of us would ask about the lift, they would stop folks and go back and lower the lift (if the lift was operational). However, that did not happen on every bus. Some of the buses let people load and then had to make them move so that the wheelchair could be placed in the spot where the seat lifts up to allow the chair to be tied down. That understandably upsets some folks and creates a tense situation.

A fast pass does not help folks who can't ride many rides anyway. A disabled person should not have to wait twice or three times as long to get a bus as an ambulatory person. This was especially frustrating when the crowds were light and the buses were not full. Watching buses pull away with 4 or 6 people on them and not being able to get on the bus with a wheelchair is frustrating.

 

[lisapooh]

Alaska,
I know what you mean about fustrating. I hate when the bus driver allows the rest of the people to board and then asks for some to move to accommodate me. Have had serveral very nasty looks and one time the person refused to move.. Drive just shrugged his shoulders and told me I would have to wait for the next bus. I hit the roof as I had already had waited because the bus before did not have a lift. Well I still got left and ended up finally getting a bus after 1 1/2 hours. You should have heard me at TTC. I was livid.

 

[Andrew Bichard]

Lisapooh,

I was at AKL in October in my power wheelchair. I rode the new ramped buses twice, once to Animal Kingdom and one return trip.

Like you I found I could get on easily from a kerb, but where there was no kerb, such as at the Animal Kingdom bus station, the ramp was a little too steep. My first attempt failed and I stalled half way up. My second attempt worked, but only because I backed up away from the bus and took a run at the ramp. This meant I was still moving fast at the top of the ramp, with only a few feet to stop before hitting the far side of the bus. My manoevre wasn't helped by an eight year old child on the bus who ran from the front to the back past the door just about the moment I hit the ramp.

(It turned out by the way, that this child was the daughter of the driver)

The taxi cabs here in London are all now wheelchair accessible. Most of them have a fold out ramp at the door which is adequate where there is a kerb. Each cab also has a separate ramp extension in the trunk, that can be used to double the ramp length (and therefore halve the steepness) where there is no sidewalk and curb.

Disney could do the same. They wouldn't even need one for each bus, just one at each stop without a sidewalk and curb.

Andrew

 

[Nanajo1]

On our most recent stay 11-16 to 11-26 I had a few bus problems. Leaving AK to go to BW the bus did not have a lift/ramp. We decided to go to MGM and walk to BW, that bus' lift/ramp was broken. Finally got in line for Epcot bus, I was worried because another ECV was in line ahead of me but we both got on.
At OKW we stayed at the Turtle Pond area, twice I was told there was no room for the ECV, however no one was standing, I later learned the driver should have had people move to accommodate the ECV. (Some busses had notices over the spot where w/c ECV are tied down stating these seats must be relinquished if needed for a w/c. Up the front some had signs saying these seats must be made available for disabled. Did anyone else notice these?)After the second time we just walked to the Pennisular Dr stop and got on there. The drivers all called to have another bus sent but it is frustrating.
I had two busses with the ramps. I had no problem with the ECV. I didn't find it any easier or quicker.
Another thing I found out. If you jot down a CM's name to make a comment about you had better check with the CM and confirm that the name tag is theirs. On more than one occasion CM's were wearing someone else's name tag.

 

[SueM in MN]

This is really frustrating. We have had minor bus problems in the past, but it sounds like it's getting worse instead of better. We have also seen buses missing lift keys or tie down belts. Doesn't anyone from the bus maintenance department ever check these? Or are drivers "disappearing" them to keep from having to load passengers in wheelchairs?
Most of our problems have been getting to or leaving DD. Once we had to wait 3 buses for an accessible one. The first one had a non-operable lift. The bus supervisor called the next bus to find out how long it would be and whether it had a lift. The driver said it did, but when he got there, no lift (I don't know what bus he thought he was driving). When the third bus didn't have a lift, the supervisor switched the assignments on 2 buses so we finally got back to our resort about 1.5 hours after the first bus left. I agree that a few fastpasses or a free meal wouldn't help us out. All I want is buses that work and can transport us without waiting longer than anyone else.
You can find posts all over about ambulatory people who are angry because they had to wait 10 or 15 minutes for a bus. I can't imagine what those people would post if they had to wait longer than that.
I'm really disappointed about the new buses if the ramps are too steep for everyone to use. ECV users might not have much problem. For some reason, an ecv can go up a steeper grade than a power wheelchair can. Even a tiny bit steeper can make the difference between getting up or not. I know with our own van, if the kneeling feature is not working, the power wheelchair can't get up the ramp without my pushing it for extra "oomph".

 

[mamajoan]

Just a quick ?, Why did WDW change from lifts to ramps on their buses? This is making me nervous re: a trip we were planning for 2002

 

[Nanajo1]

Not all busses have ramps, yet. In 10 days and multiple bus trips I only had two with the ramps. I have a "kneel down" freature on my van which is a great help to decrease the angle getting into the van but the incline on the bus ramp seems a little more steep. I had no trouble with my ECV but Lisa Pooh had trouble with her chair. I don't know the timetable to convert all busses to ramps. I can remember being nervous about backing the ECV onto the lift I thought to drive on the ramp would be easier. I didn't find it easier to 'park' driving straight on, not more difficult just not easier. I am trying to think of the plusses of the ramp vs lifts. Both are labor intensive and both have multiple parts to break down.

 

[pugdog]

The reason that they are going with the other buses is ...cost.
They are a little cheaper to buy and even cheaper and more reliable then the lift buses to fix.
If they didn't get the one's with the kneel feature then they should it cuts down the angle quite a bit.

 

[Andrew Bichard]

Several points:

Kneeling - From memory, I think the buses with ramps *DO* kneel, just not far enough when there is no kerbes.

Introduction of buses. - I don't know what the working life of a Disney bus is, but they won't all get replaced overnight. Most buses will still have lifts for many years to come.

Labour intensive? - The design of the buses makes loading wheelchairs just as labor intensive as lift buses. This needn't have been the case. Here in London UK, our wheelchair buses have sections for wheelchairs near the door that you reverse into. You face the rear of the bus, and in the case of an accident you are backed up to a backrest arrangement that stops the wheelchair moving down the bus. No driver intervention is needed other than to kneel the bus and extend the ramp. Driver can repain in his or her drivers seat.

Andrew