Racial Slur at school....

[crashbb]

No, Robin. Her previous posts have proved her to be a "troll". She does nothing but stir up trouble and say insane and wacky things to get people riled up. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ... like minkydog says ... it's a

Penguin??

I may have missed it, but how old are the kids in question? With younger kids, rules have to be concrete. A word either is, or isn't allowed, to be used. From a previous example, kids don't understand that Jill can call Suzie the N-word, but Betty can't.

 

[agnes!]

what would the punishment be at your school?

This is from 1 kid to another kid.

Back to the OP...
I don't know what the consequences might be in our school-system, I would suppose it depends on if the student flinging about the nastiness is continually engendering a hate-filled atmosphere or is somehow continually impinging on another student's access to education. A one-time insult is just that - *one time* - but if one student is continually calling a fellow student insults and names, then I think that is harassment can and should be dealt with by the administration.

The OP asked: The OP did not ask what would the punishment be at home and as such I answered her question the way I feel in this situation. I am going to assume this is a public school and as such a representative of the state. The first amendment is pretty clear and I paraphrase
Most legal scholars would agree this definition is used to mean: To cut short; curtail. As described by the OP, this is 1 student to 1 student. This is NOT a case of yelling FIRE in a crowded auditorium.

I think for the state or a representative of the state to punish speech or a phrase or a harsh word no matter how much one may or may not be offended by that speech is dangerous and should never be allowed or encouraged. ...

So yes I stand by my original statement, I would hope the school would be intelligent about this issue and did nothing in the situation as described by the OP.

I'd like to point out that every school is only as good or as intelligent as the people running it, regardless of if it is a public school, a private school or even a home-school.
Doing nothing, as some posters have stated, can be construed by the slur-givers as acquiescing or even approving of the slur/insult and can cause the insults to escalate, kind of like the 'broken-window' theory of neighborhood-degradation. To paraphrase, if a house or building has a broken window and it doesn't get fixed in a timely manner, then more windows get broken and more vandalism is done and the neighborhood goes downhill. So, if *one* insult is ignored, it can encourage other insults to be given and the situation can quickly spiral out-of-control.

Ignoring the name calling is not the way to go. Racial slurs are a form of ignorance and hate. Some of the children that use these words use them because they aren't taught its wrong. Depending on the age perhaps detention or punishment wouldn't solve the issue, but some form of intervention from an adult is neccessary. Of course, if its an older child or teenager, punish away.​

I've had issues with my niece at school because of this. A girl kept calling her the N word and the school did nothing. My niece ignored her thinking it would stop, but it didn't. It actually escalated until my niece was assaulted at school by this child. Don't ignore this. Every child is entitled to a safe, harrasment free school.​

I'm trying to picture school where the kids have full constitutional protections.

Teacher: Johnny, is that a gun?

Johnny: Back off, @#$@% (statement protected by 1st amendment). It's a AK-47 assault rifle, which I have every right to keep and bear (2nd amendment).

Teacher: That's enough insubordination from you. You're going to detention.

Johnny: Whoa! Not until I've gone before a grand jury (5th) and had a trial (6th). From now on, I'm not answering any of your questions without an attorney, which I expect you to provide, being present.

agnes!
PS - Btw, the right to counsel or to having an attorney attorney present during legal proceedings is also covered by the 14th Amendment.

 

[shortbun]

There has been some debate here lately on this very subject.

There was an incident where a student used the N word against another student. The student was suspended. The very same day another student used the N word but he was not suspended.

The first two students are of different races. The last two students are the same race.

If the school is going to react to one with punishment, shouldn't they react to all with the same punishment?

NO. I drive a school bus and I hear it all the time between students who are black. When I object, they assure me it's ok between them. I don't allow it anyway. I've explained to them that people for whom it is NOT deemed 'ok' could get confused hearing them and break the double standard. I think though that the administrators are aware that this word is used differently in the black youth culture and would not punish unless it was accompanied by some form of violence. Not saying it's right, just the way I see it.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

That is exactly the point I was trying to convey. They may be just "words" for some but for the one on the receiving end, it is hurtful and for it to be ignored in school, a place where a child should be protected, is disgraceful.

And even though my kids are not of any minority, I don't want them to even HEAR these kind of words being directed at another child-especially not in school. Then they may think it's ok to start using them because they don't even know what they mean. I would want them to see repercussions if this kind of language is being used.

For those who are saying kids shouldn't be punished for using racial slurs, what if it weren't a racial slur, but a really BAD 4 letter word that came out of kiddo's mouth? Do we punish that, or let that slide, too? What if the racial slur were directed at a teacher? I am failing to see the logic behind some of these arguments.

 

[lillygator]

what was the "slur" and in what context was it used.

 

[FireDancer]

For those who are saying kids shouldn't be punished for using racial slurs, what if it weren't a racial slur, but a really BAD 4 letter word that came out of kiddo's mouth? Do we punish that, or let that slide, too? What if the racial slur were directed at a teacher? I am failing to see the logic behind some of these arguments.

When we swore in school a letter was sent home to the parent to be signed and they handled the punishment. I know, I got a couple of those letters myself. I think that is the best way to handle the situation. I am not for the restriction of "swear" words either, I still think they are just words and the censorship of them should be done in the home, not my the government (and I view public schools as an extension of the government). I am also opposed to the FCC having the power to fine for word choice, but that is a whole different thread.

As for a calling a teacher anything, as far as I know that has never been allowed regardless of the word. The punishment should be for insubordination, not the word choice that is used during the insubordination.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

When we swore in school a letter was sent home to the parent to be signed and they handled the punishment. I know, I got a couple of those letters myself. I think that is the best way to handle the situation. I am not for the restriction of "swear" words either, I still think they are just words and the censorship of them should be done in the home, not my the government (and I view public schools as an extension of the government). I am also opposed to the FCC having the power to fine for word choice, but that is a whole different thread.

As for a calling a teacher anything, as far as I know that has never been allowed regardless of the word. The punishment should be for insubordination, not the word choice that is used during the insubordination.

Ok, I will agree that names against a teacher are insubordination, but racial slurs of one child against another child is bullying. Both punishable at the school level under most school's Code of Conduct. I am sure that the Code of Conduct manuals have changed drastically since you were in school. Shoot, I know I am a lot older than you, we didn't even HAVE a Code of Conduct when I was in school, at least not one we had to sign off on.

Schools have to keep order. Period. Allowing disrespect and name calling disrupts that and has to be stopped immediately.

 

[tinkntraining]

The first amendment is pretty clear....As described by the OP, this is 1 student to 1 student. This is NOT a case of yelling FIRE in a crowded auditorium.

So yes I stand by my original statement, I would hope the school would be intelligent about this issue and did nothing in the situation as described by the OP.

To do nothing in this situation is not in the best interests of any of the students. At the very least, a racial slur is:

1. Hurtful
2. Verbal harrassment
3. Bullying

And for the teacher/school district to ignore it and look the other way, sets a dangerous precedent that will NOT be conducive to a safe, positive learning environment. In today's society, at least #2 and/or #3 would probably violate at least one paragraph in every public school code, thereby prompting a punishment of some kind.

And I definitely think that the free speech argument here is moot. Allowing a verbal slur in a school setting, definitely has the potential to "incite a riot". And I'm pretty sure that trumps free speech.

Now onto the moral argument in this case. I firmly believe that if you witness bullying of any kind and do not act, you are no better than the bully himself. Hiding racist/sexist beliefs behind the First Amendment doesn't make it right.

And to think, in the 21st Century, my child has to share the same space on this planet with people who think it's justifiable for anyone, but especially a teacher (who is often a child's second-most important role model), to ignore such hideous behavior, that makes me sick AND breaks my heart at the same time.

 

[NHdisneylover]

When we swore in school a letter was sent home to the parent to be signed and they handled the punishment. I know, I got a couple of those letters myself. I think that is the best way to handle the situation. I am not for the restriction of "swear" words either, I still think they are just words and the censorship of them should be done in the home, not my the government (and I view public schools as an extension of the government). I am also opposed to the FCC having the power to fine for word choice, but that is a whole different thread.

As for a calling a teacher anything, as far as I know that has never been allowed regardless of the word. The punishment should be for insubordination, not the word choice that is used during the insubordination.

Much like your previous example of a website that some were offended by--we all the ability to shut off the TV if we do not like what we hear (or not to even have one) but as long as children are required to receive an education and required to stay at school all day (a kindergarten student cannot just leave the classroom if they are being harrassed--they are forced to remain there) then they should be protected from being the recipients racial, religious or other slurs.

I am also wondering if you think a child who continues to swear in school on a regular basis should ever have any consequences at the school? Such actions CAN be a true distraction to learning. I agree that a first step to rectify the situation should be a note home in many instances--but not all parents have any issue with swearing--some may even think it is funny. I have had parents (back when I taught) who think it is funny that their kids were insubordinate (or worse). So, writing a note home does not always result in the behaviour stopping.

 

[testifyoncruises]

If you homeschool, how come you were sitting in a teacher's lounge recently, flirting with other teachers, getting ready to do a speech on career day?

It is called having a CAREER and being invited to a school to talk about your CAREER for career day.

Also, bone up on civics and learn more about what speech is really protected by the first amendment. Both you and Firedancer need to study that a bit more. Slander has long been upheld as not being protected by the First Amendment.

I would say the same for you.

 

[Cornhusk]

It is called having a CAREER and being invited to a school to talk about your CAREER for career day.

So, what exactly do you do besides flirt with teachers and homeschool?

 

[lillygator]

was this a hypothetical or did it really happen? We still don't know what it was right?

 

[testifyoncruises]

Again the irony and the hypocritical nature of some holier than thou posters with their personal attacks and name calling in a name calling thread.

 

[Cornhusk]

Again the irony and the hypocritical nature of some holier than thou posters with their personal attacks and name calling in a name calling thread.

Still not an answer?

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

Again the irony and the hypocritical nature of some holier than thou posters with their personal attacks and name calling in a name calling thread.

Racial slurs are remarks made about someone who has no control over what they are, and actually should be proud of being what they are.

Troll and Pot Stirrer name calling address a chosen action of a poster.

No one is calling you out for what you are, they are calling you out for what you are saying.

I see no irony, you are asking for it.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Again, please take a history and civics lesson and re-read just what the 1st amendment covers.

MMMkay?

Again? You have not directly addressed me before in this thread
Why does commenting that I find it ironic that you were incensed that some busybody commented to you (without using slurs) about something you did in public, while you were in that public place that you could leave if you choose while at teh same time feeling there should be no restriction on children using racila slurs against other children in a public school where the otehr children are forced to remain indicate to you that i am unfamiliar with US history and civic? That is a wierd assumption to make


I am curious--if your finacial or relationship status changed such taht you could not have one parent at home to homeschool your DD and you could not afford to send her to private school and your DD was being teased daily by other kids for having two moms and these other kids were frequently using very deragotory words to describe you and your partner (and your DD) to your DD and this was happening every day and your DD was comming hom in tears most days--would your response to your DD be to simply ignore it because their free speech rights give them the right to say these thigns to her, even in a public school where she has no ability to leave and not have to hear it (where it has been determined free speech is not a given)?

 

[Cornhusk]

Again the irony and the hypocritical nature of some holier than thou posters with their personal attacks and name calling in a name calling thread.

You acted with troll like behavior and this is not the first time you have been called out, also with your answer you have shown to be a pot-stirrer However, while you hide behind the badge of "first amendment" you are ignorant to realize that in a school enviroment there is a Zero tolerance to bullying, racial slurs are considered bullying behavior in schools and therefore the child would be punished. So, your "first amendment" comments would be null and void within the school's jurisdiction.

 

[testifyoncruises]

Again? You have not directly addressed me before in this thread
Why does commenting that I find it ironic that you were incensed that some busybody commented to you (without using slurs) about something you did in public, while you were in that public place that you could leave if you choose while at teh same time feeling there should be no restriction on children using racila slurs against other children in a public school where the otehr children are forced to remain indicate to you that i am unfamiliar with US history and civic? That is a wierd assumption to make

And again I say please re-read what I wrote and then re-read the Constitution before making a jump to conclusion on what a PRIVATE CITIZEN can do or react versus the restrictions put on a representative of the state and as such a representative of the government.

A lesson in history and civics is most definitely in order.

And again to the others throwing around slander and then name calling and making a personal attacks, what hypocrites you are being.

I am SOOOOOOOO glad DP and I homeschool and do not have to put up with some of these ridiculous "zero tolerance" policies. The one time use of a word as described by the OP, again who has not returned to this thread, is not IMHO a form of "bullying".

 

[tinkntraining]

And again I say please re-read what I wrote and then re-read the Constitution before making a jump to conclusion on what a PRIVATE CITIZEN can do or react versus the restrictions put on a representative of the state and as such a representative of the government.

A lesson in history and civics is most definitely in order.

And again to the others throwing around slander and then name calling and making a personal attacks, what hypocrites you are being.

I am SOOOOOOOO glad DP and I homeschool and do not have to put up with some of these ridiculous "zero tolerance" policies. The one time use of a word as described by the OP, again who has not returned to this thread, is not IMHO a form of "bullying".

I think the First Amendment is listed in the Bill of Rights, not the Constitution. And slander is only slander if it's FALSE. Maybe what you're thinking of is "Defamation of Character". Some would say you took care of that just fine on your own.

 

[FireDancer]

Ok, I will agree that names against a teacher are insubordination, but racial slurs of one child against another child is bullying. Both punishable at the school level under most school's Code of Conduct. I am sure that the Code of Conduct manuals have changed drastically since you were in school. Shoot, I know I am a lot older than you, we didn't even HAVE a Code of Conduct when I was in school, at least not one we had to sign off on.

Schools have to keep order. Period. Allowing disrespect and name calling disrupts that and has to be stopped immediately.

I have no problem with punishment for bullying, as long as it is a punishment for the act of doing so and not the word choice. For example, if person A calls person B fat while Person C calls Person D the N-word and they are both punished for bullying I think that is justified. If person A is told "Hey, that's not nice" while person C is suspended that is not punishing bullying, it is punishing a word.

As for things changing a lot since I was in school, I have to agree with that and mostly for the worse. Far too often now schools are taking on rolls that should be the parents. It isn't the schools place to punish a child for what is done outside of school (like suspending someone for a Facebook status posted at home) for example. At the same time no tolerance policies are just lazy. Things need to be looked at as individual cases. A kid who brings a Harry Potter wand to school or makes a gun with his fingers is not the same as someone bringing an AK-47 and a grenade.

Using any word in itself is not a problem. We give far too much power to words anyway. Can using a word escalate to bullying, absolutely. It isn't the word that is the problem, it is the context and the intent all working together to form a whole.

It doesn't mean I use the words or even condone their use. It doesn't mean I would tell my children it is ok to use those slurs or I wouldn't punish them for it. I have a very diverse group of friends and don't use racial, religious, or gay slurs. I think that the government punishing words, and the public schools are an extension of the government, is the problem. If someone were to ask "Should we teach religion in public school" the answer would be no, and I would agree. It is because the schools are an extension of the government and should not promote religion. I hold them to that same standard in this case. I am not willing to say they are an extension of the government for religion but not for speech. They either are or they aren't. The standards I hold the government to when it comes to freedom is much higher then I hold private individuals.

I think the First Amendment is listed in the Bill of Rights, not the Constitution. And slander is only slander if it's FALSE. Maybe what you're thinking of is "Defamation of Character". Some would say you took care of that just fine on your own.

The Bill of Rights are the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. All of the amendments become part of the constitution once they are ratified in the same way a room you add onto your house after it is built is still part of the house.