Questions...ADHD-Inattentive in a girl?

[5lilfish]

I have had some concern about Miranda (she's 9 now and in th grade) for a wile. My son has ADHD (but his symptoms are totally different) so she certainly would be a bit higher risk. With the school year getting into full swing, my concerns are back.

Here's a list:

1) Trouble learning anything rote...math facts, spelling words. It bothers me that she can spell a word wrong, I correct her, and then she spells it wrong again 30 seconds later.

2) trouble doing ANY homework independently....often cries that things are too hard (and she's a very bright kid). Homework takes Forever.

3) gets upset easily and over-reacts

4) comes across as lazy...puts off doing things. Did I mention that homework takes FOREVER!

5) She does some spacey things that leave me shaking my head...for example, last year her class went to another room every week all year for "reading buddies." At the end of the year, when I asked what the teacher's name was (from the other class) she could not tell me her name.

I guess it's hard to put into words. I am worried about taking her and having her mis-diagnosed. I do not mind the label and/or meds, if needed. It was easier with Andrew because I KNEW he had a problem and needed the meds. Miranda behaves beautifully at school (she can be a real pain in the butt for us). Her grades are ok, but not as good as you would think knowing how smart she is.

Any help/ideas/experience?

Jess

 

[Christine]

I also have a "Miranda." She was diagnosed with inattentive ADD in 4th grade when she was 9 years old. We went through a neuropsych eval through Children's Hospital so we did not just settle for some quick, pediatrician diagnosis. Even so, I'm *still* not sure we have the right diagnosis.

With my Miranda, we did not really notice much at all. I first noticed something strange in 1st grade. She was a very good reader up until then but all of a sudden, she couldn't get through a book (the books were getting harder). She read just fine and tested well for her reading level, but if she had to sit for any period of time and read, she just couldn't. She said she would end up reading the paragraphs over and over and she couldn't get through it. Her grades began to slip a little.

Then in 2nd and 3rd grade, I got reports that she was zoning out in class. The teachers tried all sorts of things before I even knew but it was still a problem. In 4th grade, it started to get worse as the work got harder and that's when we took her in for eval. They diagnosed her as borderline, not necessarily requiring medication, and that "behavior modification" might help. It did not. And guess what, the meds don't really help. She is not hyper whatsoever but she was diagnosed with some impulsivity as she will blurt out answers or answer things on tests very quickly and won't think it through.

She does not exhibit the same behaviors as your daughter, but no one child is the same. She doesn't have a problem remembering teacher's names or anything like that, but there are so many shades of behavior.

She is now just starting college and, honestly, she is plagued with the same issues. She has a very hard time in lecture type situations but does GREAT in hands-on classes. It's amazing. I think that she just can't really learn well in the traditional ways and does better when her hands are on something or she is actively engaged. Hindsight is 20/20 and knowing what I do now, I may have tried to find a Montessori type school for her.

You are right to be concerned about misdiagnosis. True ADD/ADHD often responsds well to medication and if the child doesn't respond to medication (like my DD) it is very likely some other type of learning deficit that they may not even have a name for. My cousin's son was misdiagnosed for years (by his pediatrician) with ADHD. The meds never helped him. He finally went for a thorough eval, it took a few months but he was found to have something called Executive Functioning Disorder. Not treated at all by meds but can be addressed with trained tutors/coaches.

We did find out during the eval that while my DD has an average to above-average IQ, she has a fairly decent point gap between her verbal and mathematical scores which is unusual and she has a "slow processor" which means that she will always struggle with math and getting through math problems.

 

[freckles and boo]

I have two girls with ADHD. Your daughter sounds just like my older daughter one year ago. She was well behaved (not hyper or impulsive) yet completely unable to pay attention or organize herself. We tried behavioral strategies for a while but she simply couldn't pay attention long enough to change her behaviors. She was assessed in the first quarter of third grade. Within days of starting medication the difference was clear. She got straight A s fourth quarter and is off to a great start this year. She can get her homework done right away without frustration. She is excited about learning again.

My younger daughter has autism, plus she is inattentive, impulsive, and hyperactive. Medication for her was the obvious choice and has also improved her life immeasurably. She is doing very well in school, too.

This does run in families. I am certain I am affected as well, although I have developed strategies to deal with my spaciness and don't plan on being assessed. I am in the arts and being spacy is sort of acceptable.

 

[walkerag]

My daughter sounds exactly like yours, and she was diagnosed with inattentive ADHD 2 years ago. She is now in the 3rd grade. We knew right off that we did not want to medicate her so we went through her school. I had to fill out an assessment, her teacher had to fill out an assessment and the doctor had to confirm the diagnosis. After some testing at school they did determine that she needed extra help.
She was determined to be a "visual type" learner and is now in the resource class for math (only math), and she is given a few less spelling words as the other children in her class. Not easier but just a few less because it takes her a lot longer to complete an assigned task. She can use an abacus to help with her math and real money to count out when studying money. This really helps her and this year so far she has A's and B's and a couple of high C's. Last year it was an A or B here and there but mostly C's and D's (and a couple of F's) on her report card. She really is doing much better. She still zones out sometimes but we have been very blessed to have wonderful teachers every year who really take the time to help her stay focused.

 

[KirstenB]

OP your daughter sounds exactly like our older dd, who's 11 now. When she was in 3rd grade, her teacher was relentless in sending home notes about Andi's lack of focus. I thought you had to be hyper to have attention issues, but I finally went to a child psychiatrist for an assessment. Andi is the opposite of hyper most of the time, kind of day-dreamy. Anyway, she's been taking meds for 2 1/2 yrs now, and they do help.

 

[5lilfish]

Thanks...

At the very least, I should start looking into who I want to take her to. I am sure it will take a couple months to get her in to see anyone. That gives me more time to figure things out....and probably have our first parent/teacher conference of the year.

Jess

 

[IDoDis]

Without the hyperactivity component, it's called ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). The "H" was added in about 10 years ago.

Based on your description, it could be a learning disability and not ADD. Kids that have true learning disabilities have IQs that are average to above average, but there's a big discrepancy between their IQ and their actual achievement. It could be a combination of both. Not focusing on things that are difficult is common. Forgetting teacher names is also common with kids that have LD.

Make an appointment with her pediatrician to have her evaluated.

 

[3boymthr]

I have had some concern about Miranda (she's 9 now and in th grade) for a wile. My son has ADHD (but his symptoms are totally different) so she certainly would be a bit higher risk. With the school year getting into full swing, my concerns are back.

Here's a list:

1) Trouble learning anything rote...math facts, spelling words. It bothers me that she can spell a word wrong, I correct her, and then she spells it wrong again 30 seconds later.

2) trouble doing ANY homework independently....often cries that things are too hard (and she's a very bright kid). Homework takes Forever.

3) gets upset easily and over-reacts

4) comes across as lazy...puts off doing things. Did I mention that homework takes FOREVER!

5) She does some spacey things that leave me shaking my head...for example, last year her class went to another room every week all year for "reading buddies." At the end of the year, when I asked what the teacher's name was (from the other class) she could not tell me her name.

I guess it's hard to put into words. I am worried about taking her and having her mis-diagnosed. I do not mind the label and/or meds, if needed. It was easier with Andrew because I KNEW he had a problem and needed the meds. Miranda behaves beautifully at school (she can be a real pain in the butt for us). Her grades are ok, but not as good as you would think knowing how smart she is.

Any help/ideas/experience?

Jess

OMG! Your DD could be my DS also 9!

Same problems!

He was diagnosed with some undefined math and writing (not reading ) learning disabilities. He is a pull out class now and still struggles with retention of basic concepts - especially math - he still has to use a number line for basic addition.

He had a neuro-psych eval two years ago and the result was very mild ADD which is complicated by his learning disabilities (the ADD is not complicating the learning disabilities, it's the other way around- which is a hard concept for most teachers to grasp they want it the other way around so they can have you medicate the child ). I'm very excited this year to have a teacher for him who has a child of her own with ADHD who definitely understands about ADHD and who realizes that most of his problems are not the ADD but the learning disabilities. I am going to have him evaluated again as his attentiveness is getting worse. I'm not sure if it's the ADD getting worse or if the learning disabilities are just not getting the right attention.

My recommendation is to seek out that neuro-psych evaluation. But first, sit down at your computer TODAY and type out an e-mail to the teacher and special education coordinator at your childs school and express your concerns and request a full learning disability evaluation. This at least will put her on the radar to start receiving services at school. Most parents wait until after the first conference to make this request which puts them in the pack with all the other parents. The sooner you get started the better off she will be.

 

[justhat]

The inattentive form is more common in girls and, therefore, not as commonly diagnosed as they are typically not "problems" in class as they lack the hyperactivity element.

FWIW, I was very much like your daughter and not until I was in graduate school to become a child psychologist did I learn I had ADD. I always spaced out in class as a kid, forgot the names of people I should have known, and took FOREVER doing homework, even though it was very often easy for me, just took hours for it to be completed. Even now, something like posting here can take me ages simply cause I will distract myself several times cause sitting here to focus and type out my entire thought is a strain. Like Christine said, in college the large, lecture based classes were much tougher for me than the smaller, hands-on type. Even now at 29yo, I can be totally involved in a conversation and then mentally drift off and realize 5 minutes later that I have no idea what that person is talking about.

 

[Christine]

The inattentive form is more common in girls and, therefore, not as commonly diagnosed as they are typically not "problems" in class as they lack the hyperactivity element.

FWIW, I was very much like your daughter and not until I was in graduate school to become a child psychologist did I learn I had ADD. I always spaced out in class as a kid, forgot the names of people I should have known, and took FOREVER doing homework, even though it was very often easy for me, just took hours for it to be completed. Even now, something like posting here can take me ages simply cause I will distract myself several times cause sitting here to focus and type out my entire thought is a strain. Like Christine said, in college the large, lecture based classes were much tougher for me than the smaller, hands-on type. Even now at 29yo, I can be totally involved in a conversation and then mentally drift off and realize 5 minutes later that I have no idea what that person is talking about.

justhat--

Hate to take this off-topic, but would you mind posting about some of your coping mechanisms. As I posted earlier, my DD struggles with it and it is quite significant. Medication doesn't seem to help her and she is having a tough time in the large, lectures at her new college. What did you do to get through it?

 

[kirbydog48]

I wouldn't just assume it's ADD, as many things have similar symptoms, such as an auditory processing disorder or sensory integration dysfunction. It sounds like she also has executive function issues (trouble getting started and staying on-task, organization and output issues). She could very well have a learning disorder; possibly dysgraphia, since she has so much trouble with spelling. I would find a neuropsychologist and have her go through a full evaluation. You can ask the school to do it, but be prepared for there to be no issues (and then they don't have to provide services). It's expensive, but at least you'll know what you're dealing with, and they can also have an ongoing relationship with you, in terms of attending TEAM meetings, etc. Good luck.

 

[justhat]

Sure, I can imagine the struggle your daughter is going through.

I took lots of notes, nearly verbatim from what was being said, simply because if I didn't keep on writing I would start daydreaming, then lose track of where the class was, which led to me losing interest in the discussion in general, and you can see where that would lead. I will say my 1st year grades were not particularly good as it took me awhile to realize what I needed to do to focus.

The problem though with the detailed notes I took was that it made for a lot of stuff to weed through when trying to study, which goes back to losing interest cause you look at this mountain of information and it's overwhelming as you know you don't have the attention to put into figuring out what is necessary. So I would set aside a 10 minute period to read through my notes and pick out what I felt were the main points and either highlight or list them separately.

I definitely had to set a time in advance cause otherwise I would become distracted, check email, start looking at my calendar and what plans I had, etc. But by knowing it was a small amount of time that I had to sit there, I was able to get through it and actually finish the task.

Paper writing, lab reports, etc., that always took me ages simply because I would lose focus and start on something else, then come back to it, then leave again, etc. To this day I don't have a huge tip in that area, and my solution of simply staying up till 4am to finish writing a paper that could have been done hours (well, really, days) earlier, is not something I would suggest. It 'worked' in that ultimately I would get my stuff done, but then I had no sleep, which made those lecture classes the next day even more challenging as I'd be fighting to stay awake, let alone take notes.

Another suggestion would be to find some friends in those lecture classes and make plans to study with them. I did this a lot, particularly in harder classes like chemistry. I wasn't so great at paying attention in lecture, but was able to understand and do the material once I did finally realize what we were supposed to be doing. Many of my friends were the opposite though, they paid copious attention in class but still didn't understand how to use the information. So we'd sort of swap. They'd kind of fill me in on what exactly the professor said, then I'd help them understand it. This worked well cause actually showing others how to do things is generally much easier for the ADD student than passively obtaining info. Plus it really helps to reinforce the material cause in order to teach others, you have to have a mastery of the topic yourself.

Christine, is your daughter in her 1st year? If so, that will likely be the hardest, not only because of the adjustment to the large lecture format from small high school classes, but also because of the sheer volume of large lecture classes at that intro level that 1st year students end up taking. For the spring, have her look into what options are available in smaller-sized classes, or things that are more interactive than just a professor droning on to 300 people. Once I got into the smaller, upper level classes things were a lot easier cause the format is so different.

Also, not that she should pick a major based on this, but I double majored in Spanish and psychology. The psych classes were large all 4 years. Yes, some were small groups, but even as a senior I had to take some classes that consisted of many kids in a lecture format. For the Spanish major, however, even my classes 1st year were small, and by the time I was a senior there were only a handful of people in them, so we had a lot of discussion, pretty much no time of just a professor dictating info. So if there are a few things your daughter is interested in, maybe she can try out the less common field and see how those classes work out for her.

One other thing I should add, I really never had great study habits overall. They never developed well in high school (like I said, taking ages to complete simple homework assignments, etc.) and therefore in college I was pretty lost. The above strategies helped a lot, but seriously, compared to my now husband (who was in many of my classes in college), I spent MUCH more time doing the same things as him and his grades were often better. Granted some of that was the subject matter, but still. For example, I was consistently better in history classes, but it took me hours and hours to write a paper that took him maybe 1 hour, and for the difference between his B+ and my A-, the time was not worth it. It's not like I took hours and hours to write cause I was actually writing all of that time, I was looking out of the window and thinking about my summer or whatever stupid thing entered my mind.

Oh yeah, 1 last thing, tell her to really try to take classes she is interested in. I know that goes without saying, but what I mean is that I had to take some science classes as requirements, but which ones didn't really matter. Well my friends were all in biochemistry so I signed up for that. I barely passed. Not so much cause the class was tough, though it was, but mostly cause I had little interest in the subject matter so my usual attention span was severely diminished. So a class that really needed a lot of effort on my part received little because it was so boring to me that I couldn't even get up to my usual focus level and the grade reflected that. If I had a valid interest in the class, however, then it was much easier to attempt to focus and I did much better.

I probably didn't help you at all, sorry, but I really hope things get a little easier for your daughter. One thing to consider, since you aren't totally sold on the ADD diagnosis, is to check into an auditory processing disorder. They aren't as commonly diagnosed as ADD, but a lot of the symptoms are similar. The key difference would be if it is much easier for your daughter to understand printed information than orally spoken info. I read what you said about reading the same paragraphs over and over, and I have always done that too (even now, which is incredibly annoying as I enjoy reading but books take me ages to complete), so that may not be an issue. But if she notices that it's the spoken info in lectures that is harder to grasp than the stuff she reads in textbooks, that could be part of the problem. If that is the case, I am guessing most professors could work with her on providing some sort of written copy of notes (I know a lot of ours used power point) and that might help out.

 

[Christine]

justhat--

Thanks so much. I've just e-mailed your response to my DD. I think she would greatly appreciate hearing from someone in her shoes rather than her mom nagging at her.

Yes, she's in her first year and has just about completed her first month. Biology is her problem right now...

 

[metime]

There is a book about girls wiht ADD/ADHD but I can't think of the name. Any how, Girls do exhibit different symptoms than boys. Instead of the Hyperactivity found in boys, girls usually day dream or zone out. Girls are statistcly diagnosed later than boys because they are ususaly not a terrible behavior problem in the classroom which the teacher would notice.

I'll post the title of the book when I get a chance to search for it later today, as it is a very good and helpful read.

 

[KatieG73]

I have had some concern about Miranda (she's 9 now and in th grade) for a wile. My son has ADHD (but his symptoms are totally different) so she certainly would be a bit higher risk. With the school year getting into full swing, my concerns are back.

Here's a list:

1) Trouble learning anything rote...math facts, spelling words. It bothers me that she can spell a word wrong, I correct her, and then she spells it wrong again 30 seconds later.

2) trouble doing ANY homework independently....often cries that things are too hard (and she's a very bright kid). Homework takes Forever.

3) gets upset easily and over-reacts

4) comes across as lazy...puts off doing things. Did I mention that homework takes FOREVER!

5) She does some spacey things that leave me shaking my head...for example, last year her class went to another room every week all year for "reading buddies." At the end of the year, when I asked what the teacher's name was (from the other class) she could not tell me her name.

I guess it's hard to put into words. I am worried about taking her and having her mis-diagnosed. I do not mind the label and/or meds, if needed. It was easier with Andrew because I KNEW he had a problem and needed the meds. Miranda behaves beautifully at school (she can be a real pain in the butt for us). Her grades are ok, but not as good as you would think knowing how smart she is.

Any help/ideas/experience?

Jess

OMG -I could have written this post myself!

I've been worrying for a while about my DD8 and telling myself I was over -reacting - but reading your post has hit home hard.

The spelling thing - I don't know how our school years relate to your's in the US but Niamh is in her 4th School year. For language homework she has to write out around 5 words 3 times then construct sentences from them -she will spell the words correctly in the first part of the exercise but completely misspell them in the sentences, even when correcting her she will spell them wrong again.

How is your daughter's writing - this is a big thing with Niamh, she CAN write beautifully but doesn't - it's almost like it takes too much effort and she can't be bothered


All her report cards say that she is a lovely, kind and considerate girl and that she has the ability but is always day dreaming and doesn't pay attention.

I've tried nagging and nagging but now feel dreadul because maybe she just can't help it?

We pay a small fortune for her to go to private school and sometimes wonder if we are doing the right thing as they push the kids hard academically -this might be putting her under more pressure?

The thought of a 'diagnosis' makes me feel uneasy though as I'm scared of her being labled.

It's comforting to know there are others who know what we are going through.

Katie