Questions about wheelchair accessibility in stores

[lovetoscrap]

I have posted here a few times. I am using a wheelchair almost all the time when I go out because of severe pain in my feet due to plantar fasciitis in both of them that is not responding to treatment. I am getting better at maneuvering the wheelchair by myself and getting used to life at a very different pace that it used to be. It sure is a very eye opening experience.

So far I have found everywhere I have been to be fairly accessible. Sometimes there are some barriers but they are easily moved and people are always friendly and willing to help. But this weekend I was doing my Christmas Shopping at a huge Outlet Mall near us and went into a Gourmet Food store for a huge well known Catalog company. They have several permanent stores and this is one of them. The space is not very big but they have a very large center aisle and tables that that radiate off of that and then a large majority of their food products are on wall shelves on both sides of the store. I was planning to make up gift baskets for several family members with these food items.

I originally went in early in the day, but it was very busy and there were too many people for me to move comfortably so I just left and came back later. It was much less crowded then. But I quickly found out that I could really not shop. Their display tables were to close together and I couldn't get the wheelchair through. They also put A LOT of display items on the floor around the tables. Baskets, boxes, bins, barrels, stacks of jars etc... There were so many of these that blocked the path I was really just stuck in the main aisle. I was able to get around in one or 2 places, but could probably only get to about 1/3 of the outer walls before my path was blocked and I had to back out.

I did make my way to the back of the store and thought I might have found an access that would have allowed me to get to one entire side but only a short way down I realized that a large barrel was in the way and no way for the wheelchair to fit through.

At that point I was tired and frustrated and I gave up. I could have asked to speak to a manager but the store was still very busy and I had already been shopping for several hours and since I was a bit angry I decided it would be best to go home and send the company an email. I did tell an employee near the door the reason that I was leaving. She was very nice, but not overly concerned.

Here is the email that I sent:

I tried to be a customer in your Retail location at the Prime Outlets in *my location* today. I was Christmas shopping for family and hoped to get items in your store to make gift baskets for several family members, including the baskets.

I say a tried to be a customer because I am in a wheelchair. I was unable to get around your store. Boxes, tables, barrels, racks, baskets and other items on the floor were all so close together I was unable to get around. I tried numerous attempts to go around and try different angles and routes, but it was simply impossible for me to get to the majority of the items in the store. Each time my progress was blocked by yet another display on the floor or tables placed to close together.

I probably could have asked an associate for help in handing me items to look at across these barriers, but it was a busy weekend and they were all busy elsewhere, and besides, that is not how I shop. I like to take my time and browse the shelves, looking at the labels and taking my time, not depending on someone else to wait on me. This is really the first time I have encountered a store that was this wheelchair unfriendly.

I did let an associate know on the way out of the store the reason that I was leaving. I will most likely still buy $200 or more of gourmet food products for my family members for Christmas. But I will do so from another company.

I hope in the future you will plan your displays so that customers of all abilities can feel comfortable shopping in your stores.

Sincerely,

I have received back a form letter asking for my address and phone number. I hope they don't plan to send me an apology form letter because that is NOT what I want. I want them to make changes. I plan to follow up on this, but since I am new to this I would like some advice on what is reasonable to expect from them.

I feel that:

I shouldn't have to thread my way all the way to the back of the store (past the line to pay) to get down the side aisles--there should be at least one access point from the front or middle. Is that reasonable? And should there be more than one access point?

Am I right that I shouldn't have to rely on store employees to hand me things (unless they are on a high shelf) just because they have the aisle blocked?

I am not even sure what else is reasonable? I just want to know what to say if they do ask.

With the holiday season here I have a feeling I may be running into more barriers of boxes and displays that block aisles if I try to go out and do more shopping. How do you deal with this when you are trying to shop?

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I think they may be wanting to offer you something (such as a fair-siized Gift Certificate) to precude filing a complaint about non-compliance with ADA.

 

[lovetoscrap]

I think they may be wanting to offer you something (such as a fair-siized Gift Certificate) to precude filing a complaint about non-compliance with ADA.

I didn't know that was an option?

I don't want a gift certificate-- I just want to be able to get around their store--and for everyone else to be able to get around.

I dont' want some scripted form letter of apology. I really would like a true apology from someone high enough up for it to mean something--and for it to mean they will really fix the problem. Not just some Customer Service rep that stuffs a form letter with some coupons in an envelope and files my complaint under W in the box.

 

[SueM in MN]

I didn't know that was an option?

I don't want a gift certificate-- I just want to be able to get around their store--and for everyone else to be able to get around.

I dont' want some scripted form letter of apology. I really would like a true apology from someone high enough up for it to mean something--and for it to mean they will really fix the problem. Not just some Customer Service rep that stuffs a form letter with some coupons in an envelope and files my complaint under W in the box.

I think your letter was very good and to the point.
I think they DO probably want to discuss with you - one of the reasons being that they don't want a suit/official complaint and one that they may have standards for accessibility that store is not meeting.
When they contact you, I guess my advice would be to state just what you did here - that you want your report to mean that they will fix things so that you (and other people like you) will be able to shop in their store.

Part of complaint resolution education that managers get is to offer some 'restitution' because they really do want your good will. They may ask what you want (because that is part of what they have likely been taught to do with a complaint) - my reply would be that I want the problem resolved.
We made a complaint about a year ago to a car rental place that had a wheelchair accessible van, but no one knew how to operate any of the equipment or do a tie down (or even that they were supposed to tie down a wheelchair). When they asked what I wanted, I was very clear that what happened was not acceptable and needed to be fixed. They got back to us with what they had done, which involved checking equipment and they did educate their staff that very weekend. I had also made clear that I expected a progress report call back and would report them if nothing was done. On our way back to the airport, we did check and found they had done what they said they did.

Good luck

 

[eternaldisneyfan]

A lot of smaller discount stores have horrible accessibility. I had an awful experience at TJ max

 

[shovan]

I think it's great that you wrote them a letter! Nothing will happen if people don't speak up. It definitely gets worse during the holidays! It seems all the stores just put displays everywhere and anywhere!

And lets not mention the lack of HA parking! Especially with a side ramp. We sat a half hour last night while Home Depot continually paged the guy who parked in the middle section of the HA parking section. DH could not get into the van & I can't move it because there is no drivers seat, he drives from his wheelchair. The person who did it ended up being an older gentlemen who we actually thought was drunk, but the Home Depot salesperson insisted he had diabetes problems. It was scary that the man was driving at all. DH was getting ready to call the police when the man came out.

 

[mechurchlady]

Wal-Mart in both Long Beach and Norwalk were night mares for me. Stuff on the floors, trying to maneuver mom through the racks of clothes. I can use an ECV but at times I have to get out and walk around stuff.

You should be able to take a wheelchair or stroller into a store to shop and not have to ask for staff help. You wrote a very nice letter. Write them back and explain you do not want the certificate but just want to be treated like a regular shopper and give a chance to shop without depending on staff.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

Firstly, thank you, thank you, thank you for writing the letter. I've written more than I care to count, complaining about access problems or poor attitudes of employees, but it is worth it. If we all just kept quiet and hoped the problems would go away, they never would.

What is it reasonable to expect? I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect to be able to get down every aisle in the shop and at least get near to every item. I think it might be a little over the top to expect every item to be within easy reach, but I have been in some shops that do manage this (that partly depends on the nature of the shop).

Unfortunately, not everyone takes access that seriously, or realises quite what proper accessibility entails. If you've never had to use a wheelchair or ECV, you probably don't have the perception of how wide one actually is. I've had people offer to move things out of my way when I've had acres of room, and others look at me blankly when I tell them I can't fit through a 6" wide gap (slight exaggeration, maybe). Sales and Christmas are some of the worst times.

As for how to deal with it, I have a number of techniques (depending on my mood, who I'm with and how bad the problem is).

If it's only something reasonably small in my way, I will just pick it up or slide it until I've got room; If I'm with someone, I may ask them to move heavier stuff.

If there's a particularly awkward display, I may alert a member of staff.

Clothes racks can, if necessary, be barged through like a pair of curtains.

If I'm in a particularly bad mood, and the thing in my way is robust enough, I may just shove it aside with my footplates (a rare occurrence, but terribly satisfying!)

Shopping at quieter times is good for getting the excess people out of the way (I've not yet shoved any of them out of my way with my footplates, but it can be awfully tempting sometimes), though at this time of year, there are fewer and fewer 'quiet' times.

Because I now have fatigue issues catching up with me, I'm starting to do more shopping online, which is a wonderful crowd beater (which is probably better than me beating the crowds)!

Again, good for you writing the letter; well worded and to the point (I did love the 'I won't be spending my $200 with you' line; the best way to their hearts is through their wallets). Do follow it through, hopefully they want to talk to you, in order to find out how to improve things.

 

[lovetoscrap]

Well so far I have nothing back except for another form email stating that my email has been forwarded to the proper department. (Is that a euphemism for trash can?).

I am having surgery tomorrow that will determine if the wheelchair and I will become lifelong companions or if I get to pass it on to someone else. Well actually I think it will remain a small part of my life forever but we will see.

But I figure with my luck some company big wig will call me on Friday when I am so on pain killers I can't even remember my own name! I guess I will make sure DH knows to tell anyone but family and friends that I am "unavailable".

shovan, I would have been furious about the parking space. And drunk or diabetes he still needed the police called--for being unable to drive and for the parking violation!

I have a temp. hc tag, but I only use it in times and places when I just can't get a close enough spot that I can walk in to get an ECV or have the strength to wheel in. I really want to leave them for people like you that really need them. I can get my wc in and out of the back of my van without the extra space. Unfortunately where I need it most are at the stores like Walmart and Costco where the spots are usually filled!

OneLittleSpark, I have rearranged a few stores with the ECV's. I especially think they should be required to navigate the clothing departments in them when they set the racks up. My first time out one rack was in such a bad spot that I moved it--permanently! Dumped it right over! Hadn't quite figured out that whole forwards/back/stop thing yet. But it really was blocking the way until I got done with it.

I don't have the arm strength to do that with the manual yet. And since my feet are the problem I have to careful with what I hit with the footplates. I did think about it in that store though. Especially when I thought I had finally found the way around only to see the barrel. But I had already gotten a wheel stuck under a table earlier that day and DH had to lift the table to get me out. I was alone in the store and figured if I started rearranging things and got stuck they might not help me. . .

I will let you know if I hear anything back from them. I assume with the holiday it won't be until next week anyway. And I will be until then anyway.

 

[shovan]

Well so far I have nothing back except for another form email stating that my email has been forwarded to the proper department. (Is that a euphemism for trash can?).

I am having surgery tomorrow that will determine if the wheelchair and I will become lifelong companions or if I get to pass it on to someone else. Well actually I think it will remain a small part of my life forever but we will see.

But I figure with my luck some company big wig will call me on Friday when I am so on pain killers I can't even remember my own name! I guess I will make sure DH knows to tell anyone but family and friends that I am "unavailable".

shovan, I would have been furious about the parking space. And drunk or diabetes he still needed the police called--for being unable to drive and for the parking violation!

I have a temp. hc tag, but I only use it in times and places when I just can't get a close enough spot that I can walk in to get an ECV or have the strength to wheel in. I really want to leave them for people like you that really need them. I can get my wc in and out of the back of my van without the extra space. Unfortunately where I need it most are at the stores like Walmart and Costco where the spots are usually filled!

OneLittleSpark, I have rearranged a few stores with the ECV's. I especially think they should be required to navigate the clothing departments in them when they set the racks up. My first time out one rack was in such a bad spot that I moved it--permanently! Dumped it right over! Hadn't quite figured out that whole forwards/back/stop thing yet. But it really was blocking the way until I got done with it.

I don't have the arm strength to do that with the manual yet. And since my feet are the problem I have to careful with what I hit with the footplates. I did think about it in that store though. Especially when I thought I had finally found the way around only to see the barrel. But I had already gotten a wheel stuck under a table earlier that day and DH had to lift the table to get me out. I was alone in the store and figured if I started rearranging things and got stuck they might not help me. . .

I will let you know if I hear anything back from them. I assume with the holiday it won't be until next week anyway. And I will be until then anyway.

Good Luck with the Surgery tomorrow!!!! I'll pray it all goes well. Is that on your feet for the plantar fasciitis (sp)? I have trouble with that also. My DH is in a wheelchair due to MD. But I have back & foot problems, so far not using an ECV, but our last WDW trip really gave me trouble with my feet. And it was a super easy trip just DH & myself doing the F&W fest, not hoofing it around all the parks. I've been able to manage daily things wearing birkenstocks all the time. I've gone through a lot of custom made orthotics & several podiatrists that have not helped at all. I hope this surgery works for you!

 

[imabrat]

Thank you for writing an email.
Mind if I borrow it?
Just Kidding.

But I know how you feel.
I've been in a wheelchair since October due to a knee replacement from my bone cancer.
It's SOOOOOOOO frustrating not being able to fit into certain stores.
I'm succumbed to ordering online because of this.
I've been tempted to write a letter to these companies to let them know that yes,people in wheelchairs like to shop at their stores too!

FTR,No,I don't think it's unreasonable for you to expect that you could fit in a store.
No one should have to worry about what stores they shop at regardless.

 

[lovetoscrap]

Thank you for writing an email.
Mind if I borrow it?
Just Kidding.

But I know how you feel.
I've been in a wheelchair since October due to a knee replacement from my bone cancer.
It's SOOOOOOOO frustrating not being able to fit into certain stores.
I'm succumbed to ordering online because of this.
I've been tempted to write a letter to these companies to let them know that yes,people in wheelchairs like to shop at their stores too!

FTR,No,I don't think it's unreasonable for you to expect that you could fit in a store.
No one should have to worry about what stores they shop at regardless.

LOL, No, I don't mind if you borrow it, or if anyone else borrows it!

I totally forgot-- I did hear back from the company, of course 2 days after my surgery while I was really whacked out on pain medicine, which is why I forgot to post it here.

Here is the response that I got:

I am the District Sales Manager for the Mid-Atlantic and your e-mail regarding *my location* was forwarded to me. I'm very sorry that you encountered so many roadblocks to a pleasant day of shopping. Although our stores are filled to capacity this time of year, it is always our corporate policy to comply with ADA guidelines.

Thank you for making me aware of the situation - you were quite specific. I will investigate the cause(s) and take the appropriate actions. The store manager and assistant here are experienced and care about customer satisfaction, so I feel confident they will take your concerns seriously.

If you would like to speak to me directly, please don't hesitate, my cell # is below.

I didn't think that I would be able to leave the house at at all between now and Christmas, but I am doing much better than anticipated, so if I feel up to driving in the next week or so I may take a visit up there and see if I notice any changes--am still in the wheelchair for the time being-- and I will take the District Sales Manager's phone number with me. I am really curious to see if there have been changes, and if not if they will at least notice a wheelchair customer struggling.

 

[wheelie]

I hope that you have better luck than I did. I am a full time wheelchair user and thought that I would stop at a local outlet mall. I attempted to manuaver the VERY narrow aisles of a kitchen store. I am very quite capable of getting through tight spaces but this was ridiculous. No one in the store asked if they could help and there were so many boxes and displays that in one case after I carefully moved displays and worked my way through the store I came to a complete closure. There was no way to turn around and I had to wheel backwards. No employee or other customer even offered to help although many saw me struggling. I was very happy to get out of the store. It was very clear to me that only ambulatory customers were wanted. I sent an email to the outlet manager and got a response that she was sure that I was exagerating but they would investigate and gave me a $20 gift card. I enjoy shopping and my local malls with the big box stores are much more accessible but I thought I might save money at the outlets but the frustration is not worth it. Good Luck and I hope that your recovery is quick and you can luckily leave the chair behind. Not all of us are that lucky.