Question for Horace Horsecollar

[rlduvall]

Dear Mr. Horace Horsecollar:

Why is Southwest not a participating airline for DME? Last year, my DS and I flew Delta and loved the airline resort check-in. But alas, this year I am on SW and do not have this luxury. What gives?

 

[Lewisc]

Last year there were system issues that prevented SW from coming on board. SW doesn't do inter-line baggage transfers and they weren't in the computer system that's being used for remote check in. SW has solved those issues. SW now participates with a different remote check in company that operates in Las Vegas.

There have been rumors that SW will be added as a participating airline shortly. Posters have said both Disney CM and SW employees have said as much.

One reason for the delay may be money. It cost the airlines money to offer the RAC service and SW is one of the few airlines to make money. A passenger using a similar service in Las Vegas pays $20. I'm not sure how much it will cost SW to offer that service in WDW. The fact that you like the RAC service but are flying SW seems to indicate that many passengers book based on price/schedule and won't pay a premium to fly with a participating airline.

One reliable poster said there might be a BP issue, it's possible RAC won't be able to check your luggage if you previously got your own BP. Waiting to use the RAC desk to check luggage, and get a BP, would probably result in a "B" or even "C" BP. You can only check in at the RAC desk 12 hours or less before your flight.

Dear Mr. Horace Horsecollar:

Why is Southwest not a participating airline for DME? Last year, my DS and I flew Delta and loved the airline resort check-in. But alas, this year I am on SW and do not have this luxury. What gives?

 

[rlduvall]

Thanks Lewisc. I always wondered if it was because of the boarding pass and no assigned seating. We actually decided to rent a car this time because of the RAC issue . . . and the fact I got a mid-size for 8 days for $108.

Thanks again.

 

[Lewisc]

You can print your BP on the internet so it wasn't a BP issue. The issue was being able to print baggage tags AND MONEY.

Look at the numbers, the charge in Vegas is $20. Many SW passengers still hope for R/T fares under $150. I don't think SW would be happy with a 50% discount ($10/passenger). I'm sure negotiations over price are an issue. As a SW passenger I'd be willing to pay something like $10 if that's what it takes. Not sure Disney wants to have some airline charge and the rest do it for free.

Make sure you have room in your rental car for your luggage.

Thanks Lewisc. I always wondered if it was because of the boarding pass and no assigned seating. We actually decided to rent a car this time because of the RAC issue . . . and the fact I got a mid-size for 8 days for $108.

Thanks again.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I agree with everything that Lewisc wrote in post #2 — except for the speculation that "it cost the airlines money to offer the RAC service." The RAC-participating airlines are all doing everything they can to reduce costs, not to take on new costs. In fact, it's much more likely that the participating airlines are willing to participate in RAC because of net savings through reduced ticket counter staffing. I've never seen anything (except for speculation on this board) that indicates that any company other than Disney is paying for RAC.

Southwest has always marched separately from the legacy carriers. No interline baggage handling. Absent from multi-airline reservation systems. Different pricing. Different ticket rules. No assigned seats (although they're testing assigned seats now). Different computer systems.

RAC is operated for Disney by BAGS Inc. At this time, Southwest is not listed as a participating airline at the BAGS Inc. website. In comparison, Northwest was listed for many months before Northwest was added to RAC.

For the sake of WDW guests who fly on Southwest, I hope the rumors are true that Southwest will be added to RAC. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

Finally, for the benefit of anyone reading this thread who is not aware that Disney's Magical Express (DME) and Remote Airline Check-in (RAC) are essentially two different, independent (but related) services, see Disney's Magical Express - What "Participating Airline" Really Means! The short summary is that all airlines — including Southwest — "participate" in DME, but only seven airlines (counting United and Ted as a single airline) participate in RAC.

 

[Lewisc]

I'll speculate that other airlines were willing to pay for RAC because they bought the explanation that they'd be reducing employee costs at MCO and that passengers would be willing to pay a premium to fly a participating airline.

SW operates differently than other airlines. They are profitable and are much less willing to add expenses than other airlines.

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggests airlines contribute to the cost of the RAC. Some airlines, with interline baggage, don't participate. Disney lets guest use RAC even if they rented a car. Comments that SW made as to why they didn't originally participate with RAC also contribute to my belief that the airlines have to pay some of the costs of RAC.

MCO might be trying to get airlines on board. RAC checked luggage doesn't get X-Rayed in the main terminal building and gives MCO a greater ability to handle the increasing amounts of checked bags.

I agree with everything that Lewisc wrote in post #2 — except for the speculation that "it cost the airlines money to offer the RAC service." The RAC-participating airlines are all doing everything they can to reduce costs, not to take on new costs. In fact, it's much more likely that the participating airlines are willing to participate in RAC because of net savings through reduced ticket counter staffing. I've never seen anything (except for speculation on this board) that indicates that any company other than Disney is paying for RAC.

 

[salmoneous]

I've never seen anything (except for speculation on this board) that indicates that any company other than Disney is paying for RAC.

Great post in general, but if Disney is paying for it at no cost to the airline, why wouldn't every airline be participating?

 

[rlduvall]

The short summary is that all airlines — including Southwest — "participate" in DME, but only seven airlines (counting United and Ted as a single airline) participate in RAC.

Sorry. My bad. I know the difference, but I can see where my terminology was confusing . . .

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Great post in general, but if Disney is paying for it at no cost to the airline, why wouldn't every airline be participating?

Excellent question.

I should have written, "I've never seen anything (except for speculation on this board) that indicates that any company other than Disney is paying operating costs for RAC, such as per-bag costs or monthly service costs."

I do think that the airlines have up-front costs.

It's reasonable to assume that DME leverages the airlines' existing systems functions for interline ticketing and interline baggage handling. The legacy carriers and traditional regional carriers have had such functions built into their systems for a long time. That's how you can connect from one airline to another on a single ticket record and without having to claim and recheck your luggage at the connecting city.

Except for JetBlue, the RAC-participating airlines are legacy carriers (American Airlines, Continental, Delta Air Lines, Northwest, United/Ted) or a traditional regional carrier (Alaska Airlines).

The startup carriers typically don't offer interline ticketing or interline baggage handling. Neither does Southwest. Any airline that doesn't have these functions faces potentially substantial IT costs to update their systems, plus infrastructure to enable the external interfaces. For an airline with many flights into Orlando, such as Southwest, it would just be a matter of biting the bullet to fund the up-front costs and then the time it takes to develop and implement the changes. For airlines with few flight into Orlando, the up-front costs may, in fact, be too costly.

 

[dudspizza]

Now, it would be nice to see Airtran get onboard since they have been listed on the BAGS site for months.

Duds

 

[Lewisc]

Now, it would be nice to see Airtran get onboard since they have been listed on the BAGS site for months.

Duds

That's the other reason I think airline's have to pay something to participate with the RAC program at WDW. What other reason would account for an airline participating with BAGS for RAC from other locations, where the passenger is paying for the program? I'm not saying the airline is paying a per bag charge but it seems likely they're paying something.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

Generally, Bags, Inc. contracts with airlines (individually and as a consortium) to provide remote check-in and baggage handling for certain destinations, like cruise ship terminals, convention centers, and WDW. Bags, Inc. likely does not contract with WDW for anything other than leased space in each resort for its operations. As for WDW services, it's likely that Bags, Inc. has contracted with a consortium of airlines for RAC and baggage handling. It's highly doubtful WDW offers incentives like subsidizing some of the costs to airlines for choosing to participate, but it's not impossible.

YMMV

 

[Lewisc]

Other locations charge passengers who use remote check in. The price in Las Vegas, with a competing company, is $20.

Horace doesn't believe the airlines pay to participate, you don't think Disney is paying. We know the passenger isn't paying and we know BAGS, Inc isn't doing this for free.

I don't see anyway Disney is able to charge rent, you may be right and the airlines may be paying most of the other expenses or Horace may be right and Disney is paying most of the expenses. I suspect you're both wrong and Disney is absorbing some of the costs but is charging the airlines.

RAC benefits Disney and the guest a lot more then it benefits the airline.

If the airlines were paying all the expenses, including rent to the hotel, why wouldn't every large convention hotel have RAC?

Generally, Bags, Inc. contracts with airlines (individually and as a consortium) to provide remote check-in and baggage handling for certain destinations, like cruise ship terminals, convention centers, and WDW. Bags, Inc. likely does not contract with WDW for anything other than leased space in each resort for its operations. As for WDW services, it's likely that Bags, Inc. has contracted with a consortium of airlines for RAC and baggage handling. It's highly doubtful WDW offers incentives like subsidizing some of the costs to airlines for choosing to participate, but it's not impossible.

YMMV

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

RAC benefits Disney and the guest a lot more then it benefits the airline.

Perfectly said.

The legacy airlines are desperately cutting costs. No pillows. No meals. On a 4-hour flight from Chicago to California this month, American didn't even serve little bags of pretzels (only beverages and buy-onboard food). The airlines are only looking for changes that result in net cost savings.

Disney, on the other hand, wants more guests to fill more rooms with fewer discounts — with the added benefit of higher park attendance and fewer people spending money off-site. We know that Disney is paying for Disney's Magical Express transportation and luggage transfers. And I can't imagine that Disney isn't also paying for the related Remote Airline Check-in Service.

Actually, the guest is paying for DME and RAC — indirectly.

 

[Lewisc]

Perfectly said.

The legacy airlines are desperately cutting costs. No pillows. No meals. On a 4-hour flight from Chicago to California this month, American didn't even serve little bags of pretzels (only beverages and buy-onboard food). The airlines are only looking for changes that result in net cost savings.

Disney, on the other hand, wants more guests to fill more rooms with fewer discounts — with the added benefit of higher park attendance and fewer people spending money off-site. We know that Disney is paying for Disney's Magical Express transportation and luggage transfers. And I can't imagine that Disney isn't also paying for the related Remote Airline Check-in Service.Actually, the guest is paying for DME and RAC — indirectly.

I can't imagine any reason why an airline that has a contract with BAGS, INC wouldn't be part of the RAC part of DME unless there is some cost to the airline.

I don't agree with ExPirateShopGirl who said the airlines are paying 100% of the costs, even paying rent to WDW but I also don't agree with your conclusion that the airlines aren't paying something.

Disney was able to originally low-ball the fees they're paying MCO. I suspect they were able to sell some airlines on unrealistic savings with regards to MCO employees.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

I can't imagine any reason why an airline that has a contract with BAGS, INC wouldn't be part of the RAC part of DME unless there is some cost to the airline.

I don't agree with ExPirateShopGirl who said the airlines are paying 100% of the costs, even paying rent to WDW but I also don't agree with your conclusion that the airlines aren't paying something.

Disney was able to originally low-ball the fees they're paying MCO. I suspect they were able to sell some airlines on unrealistic savings with regards to MCO employees.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

You don't have to agree with me. Many people don't. I just know how Bags, Inc. operates with the airline tenants I'm familiar with. Doesn't mean they operate that way in your location, even though it's likely.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

You don't have to agree with me. Many people don't. I just know how Bags, Inc. operates with the airline tenants I'm familiar with. Doesn't mean they operate that way in your location, even though it's likely.

As Lewisc correctly pointed out, in other markets (such as convention centers and convention hotels), the passenger pays a fee to BAGS, Inc. for remote check-in and baggage check.

That's not the case with Disney's Remote Airline Check-in. The passenger does not pay any fee directly to BAGS, Inc.

Lewisc and I have slightly different opinions of whether the airlines pay fees to BAGS Inc., or whether Disney picks up the whole BAGS Inc. tab. Neither Lewisc nor I have inside knowledge, so we're both just making educated guesses.

However, it's clear that the business model — how BAGS Inc. makes their money — is different for Disney's Remote Airline Check-in and conventional BAGS Inc. check-in locations.

 

[Lewisc]

Passengers normally pay $10-$20 for RAC. Guests staying at WDW resorts get to use the service for free. I don't think there is enough profit margin for BAGS to waive the fee. Given the financial condition of the airlines I doubt they're willing to pay EXTRA (over the normal cost for RAC) for WDW RAC. At a minimum Disney has to be covering some of the fixed overhead.

I accept your knowlege concerning how BAGS normally operates, I'm sure the airlines are kicking in at least as much as they normally do but the most logical explanation is Disney is contributing something so the airlines share is at a level they're comfortable with and the passengers share can stay zero.

You don't have to agree with me. Many people don't. I just know how Bags, Inc. operates with the airline tenants I'm familiar with. Doesn't mean they operate that way in your location, even though it's likely.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

True, the funds per passenger are being paid by either Disney or Disney/consortium. I am loathe to believe the consortium pays anything for check-ins, though. Generally, the airlines pay Bags, Inc. a set amount for each bag handled, just as they would pay the baggage handlers they contract with at the airport itself. Most airlines contract out the sky cap work because it's cheaper to do so, rather than providing employment benefits to that sector of employees which tend to injure themselves on the job most frequently.

Now, several things don't change, regardless of the location of services. In order to maintain areas in which they can operate at each resort, Bags, Inc. and WDW enter into a lease agreement. The lease agreement describes the space they will occupy, lists the scope of services they perform, the rent per month, the term of the lease, General Liability provisions and, as it would seem, a set price for each individual who uses RAC, not each bag (which cost is borne by the consortium.) Here's my guess. In exchange for significantly reduced or nominal rent, WDW pays them a discounted fee for each passenger who checks in and gets a boarding pass, somewhere in the $5 range. Bags, Inc. is clearly trading off profit per passenger/bag for the consistent business.