Question about Good Friday

[clgwli]

They were encouraged to abstain from meat another day of the week and it wasn't a blanket dispensation, only some bishops granted that. I know our's did not. I don't see anything wrong with this, just the Catholic church recognizing and accepting the traditions of the Irish.

Ours was teh same as well.

Golfgal the nuns were incorrect and I find it odd that a Catholic would want to perpetuate such a lie. I wish I had the link but there was no fish industry until modern times. Fish simply did not keep long enough to "be an industry" They fished and they sold it quickly. Also the meaning of the latin word used to discuss the abstaining truly only means "animal that spills blood" or something like that. Google is broken for me at the moment and I cannot find it I am sorry.

You should read the Canon Law 1251 again which is from 1983. You would be shocked to find out it isn't what you think it is. I'll post yet another link I had on this just to show
http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu59.htm

I find a lot of Catholics go by what they are told. Not by what is in law. I was one of them for many years.

 

[golfgal]

Ours was teh same as well.

Golfgal the nuns were incorrect and I find it odd that a Catholic would want to perpetuate such a lie. I wish I had the link but there was no fish industry until modern times. Fish simply did not keep long enough to "be an industry" They fished and they sold it quickly. Also the meaning of the latin word used to discuss the abstaining truly only means "animal that spills blood" or something like that. Google is broken for me at the moment and I cannot find it I am sorry.

You should read the Canon Law 1251 again which is from 1983. You would be shocked to find out it isn't what you think it is. I'll post yet another link I had on this just to show
http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu59.htm

I find a lot of Catholics go by what they are told. Not by what is in law. I was one of them for many years.

There has been a fish industry since forever, just because it was sold in markets doesn't mean it wasn't an industry. I searched via Yahoo and couldn't find anything addressing this topic. Also, again, your source is a Catholic Church reference and how do you know THAT is accurate? Regardless of how the tradition started it has evolved into the recognition of sacrifice we have today.

 

[clgwli]

There has been a fish industry since forever, just because it was sold in markets doesn't mean it wasn't an industry. I searched via Yahoo and couldn't find anything addressing this topic. Also, again, your source is a Catholic Church reference and how do you know THAT is accurate? Regardless of how the tradition started it has evolved into the recognition of sacrifice we have today.

Yes there has been fishing for ever. But not an industry as we see it today. Believe what you want but it is true about the "animals spilling blood".

And is this link good enough? Straight from the horses mouth.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4O.HTM

 

[golfgal]

Yes there has been fishing for ever. But not an industry as we see it today. Believe what you want but it is true about the "animals spilling blood".

And is this link good enough? Straight from the horses mouth.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4O.HTM

It still doesn't address where the eat fish tradition came from--and why would the Vatican promote the origins of this tradition when it's history isn't exactly "Christian". The point is really irrelevant as this tradition has morphed into what it is today.

http://www.wf-f.org/FastandAbstinence.html

http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/fridayabstinence.htm

http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/Lent/faqle9902.asp

You can pretty much find any position you want on the internet.

 

[clgwli]

It still doesn't address where the eat fish tradition came from--and why would the Vatican promote the origins of this tradition when it's history isn't exactly "Christian". The point is really irrelevant as this tradition has morphed into what it is today.

http://www.wf-f.org/FastandAbstinence.html

http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/fridayabstinence.htm

http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/Lent/faqle9902.asp

You can pretty much find any position you want on the internet.

Wow, you really cannot admit you might be wrong can you? I told you I can't help with the fish at the moment. I had a difinitive answer on it that truly made sense and I cannot find it. However the idea of abstinence and fasting comes from Jewish tradition. Quite a lot of Catholic tradition is based on it since Catholics first came from the Jews believing in the words of another Jew (Jesus).

However as you said you can't trust those other articles

I personally take the Vatican's official website to be most correct. The sites I linked to QUOTED the Vatican so I follow that. Not some interpretation.

Per Vatican Canon Law 1251 meat should be abstained on all Fridays. I cannot see how you can argue with the written law.

For the record I will not be back on this thread. I gave fact from the Roman Catholic Vatican Canon Law and you still do not want to believe me. If you cannot believe that then there is no point in continuing.

 

[luvmy3]

This is what I found, makes sense to me:

In the first century, Jews fasted on Mondays and Thursdays. The original Christians were all Jewish and were used to the fasting as a spiritual discipline. They moved the fast days to Wednesdays and Fridays, because Judas engineered Jesus' arrest on a Wednesday and Jesus was crucified on a Friday. Most often that fast took the form of avoiding meat in the diet. In those days, meat was a luxury food. You either had to buy it in a market or you had to own enough land to keep cattle. On the other hand, anyone could grow vegetables or forage for them, and anyone could catch a fish in a lake or a stream. You could buy better fish and vegetables, but the point is that you could eat without money if you were poor. So meat was rich people's food and fish was poor people's food. That is why the most common form of fasting was to omit meat and eat fish.

courtersy of http://www.kencollins.com/question-38.htm

 

[luvmy3]

See, this is the real issue I have with fish on Friday during lent. So big deal, you don't have your tater tot hot dish but go out for lobster instead? Big sacrifice. The priest in our old parish had a great view on this. His thinking was that if giving up meat wasn't a sacrifice, then give up something that is. If you have a fancy coffee every morning from the coffee shop, give THAT up on Friday or don't eat between meals on Friday or give up watching TV. Give up something that makes you think about what you are doing and impacts your life in some way vs going out for a lobster dinner instead of staying home and making something without meat.

That wasn't just your priest view, Lenten sacrifice is very common amoung Christians.

 

[minnie61650]

I was told the no meat rule had to do with the blood in meat.
In the Catholic and Christian religions we believe Jesus was sacficied for us kind of like a saficifical lamb he gave up his blood for us so that is why. When a animal is killed a lot blood is spilled. Fish have blood too but not a lot of blood is spilled during the killing and I would guess back in biblical times they never used fish as a sacrifical animal.

Anyway that explanation satsifies me.

Also it is fine to eat mac and cheese, lobster, shrimp or any other foods that are not meat on Good Friday .
according to the Catholic Church.

Just as an amushing aside I read that at one time years ago a Bishop OKed the eating of Otter because he was told it was water creature just like fish .

 

[LisaNJ25]

oh crap, we will be at Le Cellier for Good Friday...doesn't matter to me as I'm methodist, but I don't know if DH will follow his childhood teachings or not.
Robin M.

LOL I m sure Le Cellier is enough to sway him

I am not catholic but hubby and my kids are. We eat meat during that time.

 

[Nancyg56]

Ugh. Creamed peas and tuna fish on toast. We didn't eat meat on Fridays, ever. Lent saw no snacking between meals, and the additional non-meat day of Wednesdays throughout Lent. Not truly as long as it seemed as a kid.

No eating before receiving communion (back then either)...
[/quote
My home was the same. We ate that stuff a lot! We also had French Toast, eggs and pancakes, fish sticks and once in a while fish. We also never ate or drank 3 hours before Communion. My DH and I still fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, don't have corned beef and cabbage if St Pat's falls on Good Friday and we always abstain from meat on Friday's during Lent.

WE always gave up candy and sweets during Lent, it was the hardest thing for kids, I think. Our Pastor does not encourage us to give something up for Lent, he asks that we add something positive into our lives. I think that aspect is a change for the better.

 

[mirmartinez]

I was told this came about due to a pope's brother in law being a big wig in the fishing industry.

 

[golfgal]

Wow, you really cannot admit you might be wrong can you? I told you I can't help with the fish at the moment. I had a difinitive answer on it that truly made sense and I cannot find it. However the idea of abstinence and fasting comes from Jewish tradition. Quite a lot of Catholic tradition is based on it since Catholics first came from the Jews believing in the words of another Jew (Jesus).

However as you said you can't trust those other articles

I personally take the Vatican's official website to be most correct. The sites I linked to QUOTED the Vatican so I follow that. Not some interpretation.

Per Vatican Canon Law 1251 meat should be abstained on all Fridays. I cannot see how you can argue with the written law.

For the record I will not be back on this thread. I gave fact from the Roman Catholic Vatican Canon Law and you still do not want to believe me. If you cannot believe that then there is no point in continuing.

We are arguing two different things-I am talking about the ORIGINS of the fish on Friday-you are spouting off about canon law about not eating meat on every Friday.

 

[Sandy321]

well personally I'm glad Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses on the door -

and I'm glad Jesus died for my sins.

and I eat meat, or fast as my heart leads me...

but I do enjoy the debates here!

 

[mjkacmom]

I was told this came about due to a pope's brother in law being a big wig in the fishing industry.

Urban myth.

 

[minnie61650]

Here is an excerpt from the 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia:

Throughout the Latin Church the law of abstinence prohibits all responsible subjects from indulging in meat diet on duly appointed days. Meat diet comprises the flesh, blood, or marrow of such animals and birds as constitute flesh meat according to the appreciation of intelligent and law-abiding Christians. For this reason the use of fish, vegetables, mollusks, crabs, turtles, frogs, and such-like cold-blooded creatures is not at variance with the law of abstinence.

 

[minnie61650]

Taken from a Catholic Answers Forums


Irondequoit Catholic Communities
Fish On Friday

http://www.irondequoitcatholic.org/index.php/Main/FishOnFriday

The article states, "You may have heard the story that the Friday abstinence was instituted as a sop to the Portuguese fishing industry. That's a cute little explanation, but it is more than a bit fanciful. Friday penitential practices began in the First Century, long before the Portuguese fishing industry had much of a lobby in the Church."

If the article is correct about when the Lenten practice of abstinence began, then it indeed discredits the "legend" that the Pope instituted the practice in order to "help" the fishermen Portuguese, Italian or otherwise.

 

[clgwli]

I had to come back after Google worked and I see someone found something similar to what I did finally.

Golfgal I was discussing two things with you. You stated that Vatican 2 changed the no fish on any Friday rule. That is not correct. That was half of the argument that you didn't agree to.

As for the 2nd, Minnie61650 quoted what I was trying to explain. The fishing industry was not really big until much later. It existed but it would have had no pull on anything.

I did find quotes all over Google too that stated the idea of fish was not classified as meat anyway. Fish and others like that were seen as vegetables by Jewish and thus Catholics would have adopted that tradition as well. Warm blooded creatures were excluded from meals on Friday. Things like frog and fish were not.

 

[tazdev3225]

I am not Catholic, I am Episcopalian, but I don't eat meat on Good Friday or Ash Wednesday. I try to abstain from meat during Lent on Friday's also, but I usually forget at some point. I know it is the tradition of my church. I was taught that meat is given up on wednesdays, (fridays were already meatless) as well as some other sacrifice during Lent had to do with the 40 days Jesus spent in the wilderness being tempted by Satan and fasting, as he prepared for His final weeks on earth. We are to sacrifice as He sacrificed for us. I do follow the tradition and usually I have to remind my DH and kids. We use this as an excuse for pizza twice a week - cheese and mushroom.

 

[Disney Doll]

Truthfully, I think the idea of no meat is the idea of "sacrifice".

If it isn't a sacrifice for you not to eat meat, then sacrifice something else that you do love.

As far as why they chose no meat...

Well perhaps the Pope's brother was a fisherman and he wanted to help the family business. The more logical explanation is the one provided that stated that back in the day, meat was more of a luxury item and therefore to not have it was a sacrifice.

Or maybe a combination of the two! The Pope sitting at the Vatican thinking "Hmmm...what can I do to help my brother's fishing business? Hmm....I know! Since meat is a luxury item, I'll tell everyone that they have to sacrifice by not eating meat. It'll make them think about Jesus' sacrifice for us and throw some business my brother's way at the same time".

A brilliant plan, when you think of it that way.

Realistically, there are people who take such issue with the Catholic Church that if Christ Himself came down and told them the rules, they'd argue it.

Sacrifice is the name of the game. If meat's not a sacrifice for you, think of something that is and do that instead.

 

[almburr]

Our preist told us to eat the lesser cost of the two. if the fish is cheaper eat it or the meat is cheaper eat the meat.

Personaly i like my dads view. We were at a steak house on friday during lent,my mom was having a hissy fit how we had to order the shrimp. Dad said Im having a steak and calling it "sea cow" so now on we call beef sea cow on fridays of lent.

I grew up eating mac n cheese, potato soup, veggie pizza, catfish, and shrimp. What got me was the fact mom would not let us have shrimp all year until lent because it was a treat. she would buy the large butterfly shrimp from Schwans. I didnt realize we were to treat ourselves during lent.