Purchase Restrictions and Human Nature

[Imzadi]

I think a perceived shortage can also directly cause a real shortage.
Take the TP during the pandemic - everyone said there was going to be a shortage, so people went out and bought a bunch of extras. And when the shelves are low, and people are worried, they grab another few extras. So people who would usually have 8 extra rolls of TP at home, now have 88 extra rolls. And the whole town/state does that. Now there really is a shortage - and when the stores get a few on the shelves, they're snatched up really quick. "Next time I'm here they might be out again." "Oh the shelves are empty, it's an ongoing problem, I better buy another 48 pack." If people bought their normal amount, that never would have happened.

This is exactly what had happened during the pandemic. At the beginning, we were told over and over by all the toilet paper manufacturers that there would be no shortage. They have plenty of supplies and the TP was made in the U.S., so even shortages due to cargo shipping didn't affect them.

But, then, photos on social media and the news showing people buying hoarding levels of toilet paper caused panics. Also the prices increased tremendously and made other people buy extra, way more than they normally stock up on - not necessarily "hoarding" levels, but definitely more, because there were then TWO reasons to stock up.

The prices have never gone down, at least in this area, even though there is no longer a shortage on TP. So WHY the continued price increase? Only because people DID and do and will buy it at those prices. So stores, rake in the profits instead of lowering the prices. After all, why would they lower the price if people are willing to pay.

Same for eggs. During the pandemic, the price went up to $7 here. NOW, they are up to $8+. And people are paying those prices.

 

[mjkacmom]

I think it can depend on how much a particular item has gotten media or social media attention. And if an item never conceivably had a limitation before it may spark you thinking you need more than normal.

Most people know about the difficulties with eggs so it brought more attention to it, with that comes if you actually have gone into the store and not been able to purchase any eggs (which happened to my husband in December at our local Walmart) so the next time they have them in you might be more inclined to pick up more to stock up (we don't purchase eggs on the regular so it didn't happen with us but just mentioning why someone could do that).

Insert other items in place of eggs, like during the pandemic with sanitizing wipes (lysol and the like) among other things. Once you knew you might not be able to get it for a while you became more inclined to ensure you had it when you could.

Hey, I still have a Lysol spray surplus, managed to find a case during COVID. And my kids are grown, when they were little I’d go through a case easily with all of the illnesses they brought into the house. I bought my Lysol when I was still spraying all groceries that came into my house.

 

[mjkacmom]

I bought store brand eggs at my local grocery store today and the carton has a date of 3/15/25, which is more than a month away. I do not know where the eggs are sourced from, but I am not aware of Florida being a large egg producing state so I believe they had to come from somewhere else.

My store typically carries Eggland’s Best and their store brand, with small quantities of boutique specialty items. The Eggland’s Best go in and out of stock, but they seem to always have plenty of their store brand (although not in every size-only extra large and jumbo today).

lol I’ve been buying egglands best for a couple of years, I’ve been grocery shopping online forever, so it’s easy to compare unit prices. Egglands best has always been the lowest (after COVID they went up to .29, today .39, store brand is much higher).

 

[BrianL]

This is exactly what had happened during the pandemic. At the beginning, we were told over and over by all the toilet paper manufacturers that there would be no shortage. They have plenty of supplies and the TP was made in the U.S., so even shortages due to cargo shipping didn't affect them.

But, then, photos on social media and the news showing people buying hoarding levels of toilet paper caused panics. Also the prices increased tremendously and made other people buy extra, way more than they normally stock up on - not necessarily "hoarding" levels, but definitely more, because there were then TWO reasons to stock up.

The prices have never gone down, at least in this area, even though there is no longer a shortage on TP. So WHY the continued price increase? Only because people DID and do and will buy it at those prices. So stores, rake in the profits instead of lowering the prices. After all, why would they lower the price if people are willing to pay.

Same for eggs. During the pandemic, the price went up to $7 here. NOW, they are up to $8+. And people are paying those prices.

The thing about toilet paper is that you kinda have to buy it. I mean, I guess you don't have to, but....

 

[barkley]

Hey, I still have a Lysol spray surplus, managed to find a case during COVID

I still have some Kirkland wipes-maybe 4 packs and a few bottles of Lysol. both were not my preferred (scented variety stuff that can give me migraines) but served (and still do) the purpose. I also have about 30 or so 1 oz bottles of hand sanitizer-walmart sold big containers of them that ran about $2 per unit but when things calmed down and they were not so much in demand/near the expiration date they had them on the clearance aisle at 10 cents per unit. I snagged a couple of the containers and now there's always bottles folks can grab for the car/at work/at school...

 

[LuvOrlando]

There is, however - kinda sorta like in humans - it doesn't necessary keep the chicken from getting it, it will reduce the symptoms.
Reduced or absent symptoms = farmers unable to notice the infection, which in turn means the bird flu sweeps thru the flock(s) and causes more damage.

*I'm not a expert, just repeating what I've been told by family that have houses, as well as what was explained to a coworker at the big industry convention in Atlanta last month.

OK, I can accept that, but we do it in humans anyway to significantly lower the risk because of herd immunity. Still, to combat breakthrough infections we now have sewage stations to monitor poop all over the US to catch hidden infections. I imagine they even keep samples to be able to go back in time to look for old samples of things they might discover in the future. Couldn't farmers put livestock on some kind of grid lift and rinse it down to watch the herds and flocks in the same way people are watched? To me the food supply really is national security and maybe we don't need to give the animals so many drugs and antibiotics (another public health mess) plus it could possibly lead to more humane conditions - rinsing down for samples could only be beneficial. Sure it might be $$$ upfront but with incentives it would be worth it to the American people, the whole issue is vitally important as evidenced by years and millions of animals needlessly killed because of infection.

 

[_19disnA]

I seem to recall that some of the toilet paper shortage during covid had to do with the same factories making those masks which use a similar raw material. While for some it was likely hoarding for many others you probably didn't want to wait until you were down to your last roll to buy some more as stores tended to be in short supply. People wanted to err on the safe side so as not to run out.

Hoarding something perishable like eggs doesn't make a lot of sense. Who knows if that person in the picture was shopping for a restaurant or commercial kitchen? Random pictures appear online often out of context.

 

[easyas123]

OK, I can accept that, but we do it in humans anyway to significantly lower the risk because of herd immunity. Still, to combat breakthrough infections we now have sewage stations to monitor poop all over the US to catch hidden infections. I imagine they even keep samples to be able to go back in time to look for old samples of things they might discover in the future. Couldn't farmers put livestock on some kind of grid lift and rinse it down to watch the herds and flocks in the same way people are watched? To me the food supply really is national security and maybe we don't need to give the animals so many drugs and antibiotics (another public health mess) plus it could possibly lead to more humane conditions - rinsing down for samples could only be beneficial. Sure it might be $$$ upfront but with incentives it would be worth it to the American people, the whole issue is vitally important as evidenced by years and millions of animals needlessly killed because of infection.

Animals and humans don't respond to the same protocols or medical issues the same way. And I'd go so far as to say "$$$$ upfront & incentives are not two different sources of funding necessarily.

Well, sure - anything is possible. But not everything is practical. And a vast majority of farmers are already operating on a very thin margin, add to that the chicken farmers have contracts with the major processors in many cases, and there are deadlines to meet and obligations to fulfill. You think folks are uptight about the seeming scarce supply/cost of eggs????? Wait till a wide variety of items are hard to come by if all the chicken houses have to shut down to retrofit a "grid system" (FYI there are already many systems in place to clean) in existing houses and / or build new houses to accomodate such a thing.

If you are concerned I suggest you source your chicken (and other meat products) from local producers that hatch/raise/process in ways that are more in line with your beliefs. Many people have backyard chickens, ducks, geese (not necessarily cheaper!) or small farms with beef, lamb, goat and bring in a private butcher, or do it themselves. In cases where people do not have the land space or live in areas that permit livestock they will often source these items from local farmers or seek them out from local farm markets. These are your options IF you are concerned about the current state of things. Going forward you can contact your local farm bureau, farmer organizations and related folks to learn more about how the process works and how you can help move forward changes from the ground up going forward. You can not just full-stop the way it is now and expect not to cause havoc on the industry (and thus those who derive their livelihood from it, and most aren't exactly raking it in FYI from the truck drivers to the farmers to the kid working behind the desk at the tractor supply store to the person who manages the chain grocery store to the guy who has a sandwich shop and anyone & everyone in between). It's a noble idea, and certainly one you should persue and I wish you luck in your endeavor.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Animals and humans don't respond to the same protocols or medical issues the same way. And I'd go so far as to say "$$$$ upfront & incentives are not two different sources of funding necessarily.

Well, sure - anything is possible. But not everything is practical. And a vast majority of farmers are already operating on a very thin margin, add to that the chicken farmers have contracts with the major processors in many cases, and there are deadlines to meet and obligations to fulfill. You think folks are uptight about the seeming scarce supply/cost of eggs????? Wait till a wide variety of items are hard to come by if all the chicken houses have to shut down to retrofit a "grid system" (FYI there are already many systems in place to clean) in existing houses and / or build new houses to accomodate such a thing.

If you are concerned I suggest you source your chicken (and other meat products) from local producers that hatch/raise/process in ways that are more in line with your beliefs. Many people have backyard chickens, ducks, geese (not necessarily cheaper!) or small farms with beef, lamb, goat and bring in a private butcher, or do it themselves. In cases where people do not have the land space or live in areas that permit livestock they will often source these items from local farmers or seek them out from local farm markets. These are your options IF you are concerned about the current state of things. Going forward you can contact your local farm bureau, farmer organizations and related folks to learn more about how the process works and how you can help move forward changes from the ground up going forward. You can not just full-stop the way it is now and expect not to cause havoc on the industry (and thus those who derive their livelihood from it, and most aren't exactly raking it in FYI from the truck drivers to the farmers to the kid working behind the desk at the tractor supply store to the person who manages the chain grocery store to the guy who has a sandwich shop and anyone & everyone in between). It's a noble idea, and certainly one you should persue and I wish you luck in your endeavor.

Dunno, it seems like the culling of millions of animals and the associated price increases like eggs since 2020 are very high. In's not my decision but really it does seem to fall into the name your hurt category. There is no way to protect the animals, the H5N1 lives in wild birds so all you need is a stray barn owl or crow or any other number of creatures. If this H5N1 gets a foothold there will be no more chickens for a very long time as ALL the animals need to be culled and ALL the facilities need to be scrubbed and ALL the employees need to be cleared - the expense there would be extraordinary if we are in a world without chickens.

And this is not the only concern, there is that Chronic Wasting disease in deer and such, I think it is fair to be concerned of it morphing into something that could jump to livestock.

This stuff isn't going away, we can ignore it in the pursuit of profits but at some point these diseases are going to get stronger and root into food supply. To me ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure but it is not my choice.

 

[easyas123]

but it is not my choice

I'd say everyone has a choice. The choice is how/where a person decides to source their food from. Yes any given person or persons has different challenges to overcome in making this choice. And yes it is easier said than done. And yes, some folks are more inclined than others and some folks have to pick their fights and this isn't the hill they have choosen to die on. Food, like medical, education, religious and a whole host of other lifestyle-type decisions are made by people daily. I venture to guess more thought goes into those decisions than many realize, and every person/family/group has different metrics by which they gauge the importance of the how/why/when/where/whatever origin of the that which they consume be it food or education or religion or politics or car insurnace or brand of ice cream or type of bandaide and on and on and on.
So if it is important to you, make the change that best suits your personal needs or beliefs.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I'd say everyone has a choice. The choice is how/where a person decides to source their food from. Yes any given person or persons has different challenges to overcome in making this choice. And yes it is easier said than done. And yes, some folks are more inclined than others and some folks have to pick their fights and this isn't the hill they have choosen to die on. Food, like medical, education, religious and a whole host of other lifestyle-type decisions are made by people daily. I venture to guess more thought goes into those decisions than many realize, and every person/family/group has different metrics by which they gauge the importance of the how/why/when/where/whatever origin of the that which they consume be it food or education or religion or politics or car insurnace or brand of ice cream or type of bandaide and on and on and on.
So if it is important to you, make the change that best suits your personal needs or beliefs.

I can't say I agree that individual food sourcing decisions can prevent a national security emergency from H5N1 taking root in the poultry industry. That is what you are saying, correct? Making sure I am understanding you properly in your assertion.

 

[easyas123]

I can't say I agree that individual food sourcing decisions can prevent a national security emergency from H5N1 taking root in the poultry industry. That is what you are saying, correct? Making sure I am understanding you properly in your assertion.

No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is if you are not satisfied with the the quality of the product that is being brought to market (and the processes by which it is subject to in that process) go to a different market and purchase a different product...well that and to answer your questing "why can't they vaccinate the chickens?" and to try to explain how a "grid system" wouldn't work.

 

[LuvOrlando]

No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is if you are not satisfied with the the quality of the product that is being brought to market (and the processes by which it is subject to in that process) go to a different market and purchase a different product...well that and to answer your questing "why can't they vaccinate the chickens?" and to try to explain how a "grid system" wouldn't work.

Ohhh, OK, so it is you that do not understand me and you are moving down a rabbit hole that does not fit.

I am concerned there will be a collapse of the poultry market if H5N1 gets a foothold. The grid is a musing, I don't think I have the pull for a mandatory policy change. Point is, if nothing is done momentary high egg prices will be the least of US problems with poultry. Truly it doesn't matter what is done but hopefully something because just hoping it doesn't get too bad doesn't strike me as the best strategy.

To do nothing iis foolish, there is writing on the wall and the bird flu has already shown it is twitchy enough to jump species, that is a very dangerous signal. Do we all really want to deal with another quarantine with food scarcity when there is ample warning and time to adapt ahead of the issue? Personally, no thank you to a 2020 part 2.

The eggs prices are a signal to do something, anything but be smart about it.

I saw a 3 dozen package of eggs today for nearly $20, that is bananas.

 

[easyas123]

Ohhh, OK, so it is you that do not understand me and you are moving down a rabbit hole that does not fit.

Ohhhh, no, that's not it.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

 

[barkley]

And this is not the only concern, there is that Chronic Wasting disease in deer and such, I think it is fair to be concerned of it morphing into something that could jump to livestock.

we have an issue with CWD locally to us such that we are not even permitted to put out feed or salt licks for the deer, moose and elk that live on our (my own) property as we routinely do during the fridgid, barren winter months (a means to naturaly cull infected herds b/c the weaker with the disease will die off sooner without the supplemental food). that said-extensive studies indicate CWD does not naturaly infect cows, other livestock or pets. the only known transmissions have been those done via experiments utilizing intracranial inoculation wherein controlled inoculations of infected matter has been directly injected into the brains of livestock. even with those the transmission rates were minimal.

unless it morphs into an entirely different disease 70 years of it being known of and tracked (and how many centuries before we discovered it?) shows no cross over risk.

 

[Imzadi]

View attachment 938228

There was a man who traded a red paper clip, and in 14 trades ended up with a house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_red_paperclip

There may actually be a day when someone trades a dozen eggs for a jeep.

 

[Pooh2]

I went to two different stores this morning, each limited to one dozen per customer.
I need to make several quiches and 4 batches of cookie dough this weekend so may need to send my husband back out for another dozen.
These restrictions must be tough on large families.

 

[Imzadi]

I went to two different stores this morning, each limited to one dozen per customer.
I need to make several quiches and 4 batches of cookie dough this weekend so may need to send my husband back out for another dozen.
These restrictions must be tough on large families.

This came up in my You Tube suggestions last night. I do not know how well the substitutions work. I wouldn't try them for quiche.

 

[Imzadi]

Do you ever notice, how when something gets a purchase restriction, people buy it like never before? If someone goes to the store for 1 dozen eggs, and they see a 3 dozen purchase restriction, suddenly they need 3 dozen eggs.

I wonder if a primordial instinct gets set off in some people? When I studied anthropology for a few weeks, until I realized how boring a subject it was to me, we were learning about how humans started off as hunting and gathering tribes. They had to be very nomadic and go where ever the food sources were to be found. Then they tried to gather as much as possible if it was fruit & berries and such, and try to eek it out until the next successful hunt.

Then they learned how to have herds, and eventually went on to invent farming, where they could settle in place and have the security to plan on having food. (Or something like that. I'm not interested enough in Googling for a full anthology lesson.)

Maybe seeing purchase restriction signs sets off that hunting & gathering instinct in some. They don't bother thinking through that they will never use up 3 dozen eggs in time, or have the space to store them frozen. They just grab and go.