Public School Dress Codes - uniforms

[luvsJack]

And your point is?? We should encourage that and make them do it for every single thing? They should all be identical little robots? Why shouldn't we encourage a little individuality when given a chance that doesn't hurt anyone else?

The problem is when the "individuality" is all about how much my jeans cost, how short I can wear my skirt without getting in trouble, how low my pants can go without someone noticiing and all the other issues that come up with not having uniforms.

The reasons our schools went to uniforms is because of non-compliance with dress code. Other than the teacher who does the sock check (and that is only that teacher), our teachers are able to spend more time teaching and less time measuring skirts and telling someone to pull up their pants. No belt? go call home or sit in the office. Period. And since their shirt is tucked in its not hard to know if they have a belt on.

The other reason for wearing them is that a teacher, security officer or other administrator can tell at a glance if a kid is on campus that isn't supposed to be there. We had an issue of some high school students coming on campus and going after a jr. high kid. Now it would take but a glance to know they weren't supposed to be there.


My child is an individual and she is quite able to show it without worrying about the clothes she wears. In jr. high and high school its all about brands. Sorry, but having the money to afford the latest high dollar brand does not make you an individual. And besides kids all wear the same brands and the same styles (whatever is "in style" at the moment)--how on earth is that about individuality?

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

I would fight it tooth and nail.

If you refuse to comply, what can they really do? They have an obligation to provide children an education in the least restrictive environment. If I refuse to allow my child to wear a uniform to school, are they going to expel her, A student that she is? If they do that, are they going to provide a tutor to come to our home?

Actually if your child continually shows up out of dress code and thus continually breaking the rules, yep, he/she could justifiably be expelled, and treated the same way any other violator would be. Maybe sent to an alternative school. I doubt you would get a private tutor because you chose to break the rules.

So what if the school board didn't put this up to a vote? They don't have to ask, and if that is what they want for the school's purposes, why should they have to? They don't ask parent's what to put on the lunch menu, if weapons should be allowed at school, if there should be a peanut free zone in the cafeteria, what to budget for expenditures, etc.

Pick your battles, folks..there will plenty of worthwhile ones to come along in your kid's school lifetime.



And (this is not aimed at my quoted PP) special snowflakes can express themselves in ways other than clothing.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I have never thought of uniforms as a way to curb gangs or cliques. I think uniforms are a way to bolster school pride and create a sense of belonging, pride and spirit.

The biggest issue I have with the op's dilemma is that people think that students/parents should have a vote in the uniform debate. How many bosses let their employees take a vote on issues such as this? Maybe I have these thoughts because my husband is a school administrator and I am looking from a different angle.

See now I look at it differently. My taxes pay for our schools. My involvement, fundraising etc. also help fund the schools. That technically makes me one of the bosses. Not the administrators. The Administrators work for the public. We don't work for them. If we had an Administrator who thought that he/she was the boss and whatever they decided on every matter was the end all be all then that person would not last very long. Those types have been ousted from our schools in the past by the parents. We have a very involved community. Uniforms would never fly here no matter what the Administrators thought about it.
I would never support uniforms. I send my children to public school. They should be able to dress in clothes that they like (within reason of course). If I wanted uniforms etc. I would have chosen private school. We have plenty of school spirit without everyone looking the same. If you like uniforms that is fine. Many years ago I too thought it would be great but I have since changed my mind. I see nothing positive about it. I also don't like the choices.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I haven't read all the replies, but to me, this could be the result of an incident(s) that has happned that for whatever reason cannot be shared.

Knowing that a lot of people will be up in arms may be the reason they just chose to do this.

In a perfect world, they would have given it to a vote or condulted the PTO, yet for whatever reason, the school officials and the district thought this school needed this policy. And I know of cases where it went to vote and it caused a big ruckous at parent meetings with parents in favor yelling at parents who weren't and vice versa. And nothing was accomplished and in the end, the school had to make the call. Which is their job.

And most parents came to love those uniforms, even the ones that were most angered by them initially.

Public school is seldom about a live and let live atmosphere and more about "we all have to do this so we can all learn". The individuality shines through on the lessons and the relationships the students get with their teachers and peers, the clubs they join, things like that. A uniform is not the end of diversity in a school.

On a good note, uniforms are nice! Takes a lot of the guesswork out of things and it does help with bullying and peer pressure. It doesn't solve those issues altogether by a long shot, and I don't think they save that much money (because you need weekend clothes too as well as clothes to be worn during school breaks). I mean kids can still feel like geeks when they go to the mall and feel like they aren't as "good" as the better dressed kids they know, but at least at school, there is less distraction.

As for not conforming, schools can and will expel for not wearing a uniform. This is no different from when they kick out a kid who wont' conform to a dress code. I agree with a pp, we parents have to pick our battles. This isn't one that I would personally invest one minute of my time fighting.

 

[harleyquinn]

The problem is when the "individuality" is all about how much my jeans cost, how short I can wear my skirt without getting in trouble, how low my pants can go without someone noticiing and all the other issues that come up with not having uniforms.

The reasons our schools went to uniforms is because of non-compliance with dress code. Other than the teacher who does the sock check (and that is only that teacher), our teachers are able to spend more time teaching and less time measuring skirts and telling someone to pull up their pants. No belt? go call home or sit in the office. Period. And since their shirt is tucked in its not hard to know if they have a belt on.

The other reason for wearing them is that a teacher, security officer or other administrator can tell at a glance if a kid is on campus that isn't supposed to be there. We had an issue of some high school students coming on campus and going after a jr. high kid. Now it would take but a glance to know they weren't supposed to be there.


My child is an individual and she is quite able to show it without worrying about the clothes she wears. In jr. high and high school its all about brands. Sorry, but having the money to afford the latest high dollar brand does not make you an individual. And besides kids all wear the same brands and the same styles (whatever is "in style" at the moment)--how on earth is that about individuality?

I think the 'spot the person who doesn't belong' reason is very valid.

And I also understand and agree about the cost issues and that line of reasoning. I'm just not sure that everyone is really wearing the same style, especially once you get to HS.

I guess individuality in clothing choice for me is about a child picking out each piece of clothing and making outfits. They have ownership in their choices, it's part of who they are. Yes, most of their friends will pick the same thing.

And again, of course there is way more to being an individual than clothing choice, but I just don't see the benefit to taking away something that has the possibilty of expressing a little individuality.

I'd like to see some research about bullying and uniforms. That could go a long way to making me change my tune. I think the cost issues directly correlate with bullying, so it would be interesting.

 

[Pigeon]

Actually if your child continually shows up out of dress code and thus continually breaking the rules, yep, he/she could justifiably be expelled, and treated the same way any other violator would be. Maybe sent to an alternative school. I doubt you would get a private tutor because you chose to break the rules.

So what if the school board didn't put this up to a vote? They don't have to ask, and if that is what they want for the school's purposes, why should they have to? They don't ask parent's what to put on the lunch menu, if weapons should be allowed at school, if there should be a peanut free zone in the cafeteria, what to budget for expenditures, etc.

Pick your battles, folks..there will plenty of worthwhile ones to come along in your kid's school lifetime.



And (this is not aimed at my quoted PP) special snowflakes can express themselves in ways other than clothing.

I think this is certainly a worthwhile battle.

We don't have alternative schools, so what exactly are they going to do educationally? They must educate the child. It's going to cost them way more to provide private tutoring. Dh is a teacher and I know this to be true.

They may not ask what to put on the cafeteria menu, but they don't tell you you must buy from the cafeteria, either. One can bring whatever lunch you want. The gun analogy is just idiotic and has nothing to do with clothing.

They are telling me the parent how I should spend my money and clothe my child, sorry, not going to fly. It is one more instance of a school far overreaching into things that do not concern them.

Many of these idiotic policies do have an opt out clause that the school tries to keep a secret, but if you push hard, it's there.

I went to an elementary school (private) with uniforms, and it is not something my child will be forced to do. It was degrading, pure and simple.

 

[Amy&Dan]

See now I look at it differently. My taxes pay for our schools. My involvement, fundraising etc. also help fund the schools. That technically makes me one of the bosses. Not the administrators. The Administrators work for the public. We don't work for them. If we had an Administrator who thought that he/she was the boss and whatever they decided on every matter was the end all be all then that person would not last very long. Those types have been ousted from our schools in the past by the parents. We have a very involved community. Uniforms would never fly here no matter what the Administrators thought about it. I would never support uniforms. I send my children to public school. They should be able to dress in clothes that they like (within reason of course). If I wanted uniforms etc. I would have chosen private school. We have plenty of school spirit without everyone looking the same. If you like uniforms that is fine. Many years ago I too thought it would be great but I have since changed my mind. I see nothing positive about it. I also don't like the choices.

I see your point. However, this is just part of the fact that that the government works for us. The police get paid by our taxes. Yet when they pull us over for speeding, we are not able to say, "um, you work for me so buzz off, I'm in a hurry".

There is always authority. There is always a time to fight for what you believe in and against what you think is wrong. But in the end, the old "you can't fight city hall" got started for situations just as these.

If someone really has a problem with this, they need to move schools or move out of the district or put their kids in a private school.

Sometimes, you have to follow the rules, even the ones you don't like. To me a uniform is not such a big deal that if I was happy with my school, I'd leave it or resign from volunteering. I would voice my opinion but in the end, I'd have to decide what mattered more. The uniform or the overall educational experience.

 

[harleyquinn]

I also want to add that if my child's school chose to enact a dress code, I honestly wouldn't give a flying fart.

I just wanted to offer up a different view and to dispell some of the often referenced reasons for uniforms (improving test scores, decreasing punishments, etc.)

I love a good debate

 

[ilovejack02]

I went to an elementary school (private) with uniforms, and it is not something my child will be forced to do. It was degrading, pure and simple.

How is it degrading?

Is it degrading to all people who wear uniforms? Please explain.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

http://debate.uvm.edu/eesample/084.html

Interesting article about school uniforms that I thought I'd share.

As for this not worth the fight, well I think it is. It is not the school's job to tell me how to dress my kids. They are there to educate them. The End.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I see your point. However, this is just part of the fact that that the government works for us. The police get paid by our taxes. Yet when they pull us over for speeding, we are not able to say, "um, you work for me so buzz off, I'm in a hurry".

There is always authority. There is always a time to fight for what you believe in and against what you think is wrong. But in the end, the old "you can't fight city hall" got started for situations just as these.

If someone really has a problem with this, they need to move schools or move out of the district or put their kids in a private school.

Sometimes, you have to follow the rules, even the ones you don't like. To me a uniform is not such a big deal that if I was happy with my school, I'd leave it or resign from volunteering. I would voice my opinion but in the end, I'd have to decide what mattered more. The uniform or the overall educational experience.

I get what you are saying about the police being paid for with our taxes but there is a flaw there. They are paid by our taxes to enforce the law. They do not make the laws. The schools are paid with our taxes to provide an education. They do not get to decide what color socks I wear. It has nothing to do with my education.

 

[cherjp]

Hi your debate about school uniforms is good, our kids in the UK all wear school uniform. Where we stay in Scotland my kids school which is a secondary school ( school for 12 till 16/17 years, just to avoid confusion) has a very uniform of black trousers/ skirts. white shirts/ blouse purple and gold blazer and tie.There is also an alternative purple polo shirt and sweatshirt with the school emblem on it. Our kids are easily recognisable, for instance there was a school trip to the scottish parliament a couple of years ago which my son went to and as it was a during a televised question time with ministers, in the public gallery all you could see was a sea of purple and gold blazers. As a parent it made me feel very proud.

 

[DisneyCowgirl]

Why would the PTA members resign over this? I understand being upset/mad/outraged/etc., but you're on the PTA to help your kids and your school, not to get your way. Just seems like biting off your nose to spite your face to me.

My kid wears a uniform and I love it. He even wore one to day care starting at age 1. Mornings are so much easier that way.

 

[luvsJack]

I think this is certainly a worthwhile battle.

We don't have alternative schools, so what exactly are they going to do educationally? They must educate the child. It's going to cost them way more to provide private tutoring. Dh is a teacher and I know this to be true.

They may not ask what to put on the cafeteria menu, but they don't tell you you must buy from the cafeteria, either. One can bring whatever lunch you want. The gun analogy is just idiotic and has nothing to do with clothing.

They are telling me the parent how I should spend my money and clothe my child, sorry, not going to fly. It is one more instance of a school far overreaching into things that do not concern them.

Many of these idiotic policies do have an opt out clause that the school tries to keep a secret, but if you push hard, it's there.

I went to an elementary school (private) with uniforms, and it is not something my child will be forced to do. It was degrading, pure and simple.

Pray tell me, how is wearing a uniform degrading?? Degrading is when all the other kids have $80 jeans with the fancy little tag and Suzy has WalMart jeans and the other kids pick on her or ask why she's poor.

Your child has to follow school rules. School rules and policies are put into force by the school board. They do not have to ask your opinion of what those rules should be. Dress code and school uniforms are a part of those rules and policies. They don't have to expel your child, they can just put them in Is School Suspension day after day. Your child would be getting an education and would also be punished for not following the rules.

What are you teaching your child by deciding that you get to pick which rules to follow, anyway?

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

I think this is certainly a worthwhile battle.

I just don't see this as a hill to die on. It's a total waste of time and energy, and sends out the message to kids that everything is up for discussion.


We don't have alternative schools, so what exactly are they going to do educationally? They must educate the child. It's going to cost them way more to provide private tutoring. Dh is a teacher and I know this to be true.

What happens if a child is expelled for something in your school? That would be the answer as to what would happen to your child if they were out of dress code on a regular basis.

They may not ask what to put on the cafeteria menu, but they don't tell you you must buy from the cafeteria, either. One can bring whatever lunch you want. The gun analogy is just idiotic and has nothing to do with clothing.

That was just to point out a few of the hundreds of things that are on the rule books in schools, but not asked for a vote by parents. It wasn't an analogy to clothing, it was an analogy to RULES.

They are telling me the parent how I should spend my money and clothe my child, sorry, not going to fly. It is one more instance of a school far overreaching into things that do not concern them.

They will be telling you how to spend your money if they have any kind of dress code. If people don't like it, they should homeschool. Then the kids could run around in their PJs.

Many of these idiotic policies do have an opt out clause that the school tries to keep a secret, but if you push hard, it's there.

I would love to see proof of that.

I went to an elementary school (private) with uniforms, and it is not something my child will be forced to do. It was degrading, pure and simple.

Degrading? Sorry, but I see NONE of that at my kids's schools. They don't even notice they are wearing a uniform. They concentrate on their school work, and lunch time, and recess. It would be a shame if a child's self esteem was that sensitive that they would suffer from wearing the same thing as everyone else.

.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Why would the PTA members resign over this? I understand being upset/mad/outraged/etc., but you're on the PTA to help your kids and your school, not to get your way. Just seems like biting off your nose to spite your face to me.

My kid wears a uniform and I love it. He even wore one to day care starting at age 1. Mornings are so much easier that way.

The PTA usually works a lot with the administration. I would be very angry if our admin pulled a fast one like this.

 

[RadioNate]

I also want to add that if my child's school chose to enact a dress code, I honestly wouldn't give a flying fart.

I just wanted to offer up a different view and to dispell some of the often referenced reasons for uniforms (improving test scores, decreasing punishments, etc.)

I love a good debate

You crack me up. I personally are not really that upset but people are seriously about to pop here. I do absolutely think they should have let parents that this was being considered rather than just decreeing on the 1st day of state testing. I'm annoyed with that. I also have some other issues with the principal so my opinion of her isn't stellar to begin with.

I also don't like that this is specific to our school. I'd be much more content with a district wide change than just one principal deciding for one school.

IF we attend this school next year (which is actually unlikely) I'll comply but I think the whole thing is stupid. That is my bottom line. I think uniforms are dumb. I don't think they accomplish the goals that people think they will (financial equality, school pride, bulling, etc.) I just think it is another way for the school to maintain an illusion of control over student behavior.

If there were compelling stats for wearing them, ok. If there were huge problems in the school with gang clothing and major dress code violations, ok. But there isn't. This is a run of the mill middle class school that has no real reason to go to uniforms other than the principal decided she wanted to.

 

[Tinkermommy]

I would fight it tooth and nail.

If you refuse to comply, what can they really do? They have an obligation to provide children an education in the least restrictive environment. If I refuse to allow my child to wear a uniform to school, are they going to expel her, A student that she is? If they do that, are they going to provide a tutor to come to our home?

I am not sure why people are so upset with uniforms (I would welcome them) but realize that if you want to protest the new policy by sending your children in regular clothes, that they may suffer the consequences not you.

I am not sure all the reasons schools decide to do uniforms but this is not a battle that is worth fighting to me.

I agree that school is a kid's "job." And if your job requires a dress code or uniform, then that's what you do. Lot's of jobs require a dress code and the employee must buy their clothes (Target, many restaurants).

As for uniforms restricting kids from expressing themselves. Just think of all the repressed Disney employees in their uniforms! I especially feel sorry for the Haunted Mansion ones!!

 

[Amy&Dan]

I get what you are saying about the police being paid for with our taxes but there is a flaw there. They are paid by our taxes to enforce the law. They do not make the laws. The schools are paid with our taxes to provide an education. They do not get to decide what color socks I wear. It has nothing to do with my education.

I think where you and I may differ is that to me, this is not a case of the school taking away a right. But rather the school instituting a policy they think will better the overall environment. Not that I wouldn't as a parent think "hey wait a minute, not sure I like this". I know my 13yo dd would hate it because she's done uniforms before and she got so sick of them!

To me its certainly more encompassing than a dress code or "can't bring peanut snacks to class parties" or "no gang colors" or "no PG movies shown because some parents don't like them, even ones made by Disney" kind of thing. But its also not a sign that the school is out to take away individual choice or turn the kids into robots or tell parents what they can and can't do.

Some rules are tougher to understand and live with than others. But for me (again just me) I wouldn't have the reaction others are having. But I can understand why they do. But if they (as in any parent who would fight this to the point of refusing to comply) choose to not have thier kids comply, the kids will be the losers in that equation. I wouldn't want to uproot my kids from their school and friends because of this issue. And I wouldn't want an explusion on my kids' school record would stand out like a red herring to a college or university.

 

[cheermom1]

I don't think our schools switched to solve problems, but just to make life easier for all.
Teachers and staff aren't having to monitor all different types clothing for violations that can come up with wearing regular street clothes and for me, I shop once and quick and cheap.

It is just not that big of a deal, so many other things to worry about with the kids and wearing uniforms is the least of my worries.

There are rules and uniforms in all different types of jobs, and for my kid school is there job, so if wearing a uniform is part of it then so be it.

My "special little snowflake' ; ) wont be harmed by wearing them and neither will anybody elses. Kids make a big deal out of it because the parents do.

But you see it doesn't matter if it is a uniform or reg. clothes the teachers and anyone else that works as the school STILL have to monitor what the kids wear, no getting around it...sure it may not hurt them but the things that uniforms are used for doesn't make a difference as the problems are still there b/c the only thing uniforms do is make it easier on the parent...