Problem in education

[luvmy3]

Would you mind giving me some examples? I am interested to see what others are doing.

Sure, I sent you a pm

 

[gottaluvPluto]

American's don't value education, hard work and discipline and that is reflected in today's students. Instead of forcing education on them we as a society make it easy for them, our schools lower their standards so everybody gets through.

This is so true. Many parents don't value an education and the cycle starts because now their kids don't value education. Also, parents are their kids first and last teacher and many parents do not believe this. They think the only teacher a kid will have is in school.

Our school has NO gifted programs. They need to level the playing field, we couldn't have some students far exceeding others, now could we

My DD's school did away with the gifted program because they needed the teachers for the more intensive programs to bring children up to grade level.

 

[Tuffcookie]

IDoDis wrote: There are days when I feel like crawling under the covers and staying there, but that could be the day that one of my students grasps a concept that they've struggled with for a long time. It happened just this week to one little girl in my class. It brought tears to my eyes to see the light bulb go off.

I'm not going start spouting off on some of the posts I've read because I realize there are some very uneducated posters here on these issues. It's very obvious and frankly, it makes me ill to read some of these posts.

Thank you for all you do!

TC

 

[okeydokey]

This is so true. Many parents don't value an education and the cycle starts because now their kids don't value education. Also, parents are their kids first and last teacher and many parents do not believe this. They think the only teacher a kid will have is in school.



My DD's school did away with the gifted program because they needed the teachers for the more intensive programs to bring children up to grade level.

That's because bringing all children up to grade level is the goal of No Child Left Behind and school funding depends on this. They don't have to worry about the kids that are doing well. The act should have been called The Gifted Child Left behind.

 

[daughtersrus]

There are no self contained classes and yes all students are given the same material.

I have to say that I'm quite surprise. We do have self-contained classes for gifted but for those that don't qualify for those, their curriculum is still modified. For example, the students are tested on their reading ability and letter recognition over summer before they start Kdg. They are then placed i a reading group based on their abilities. This group is still within their class.

The only difference would be an inclusion class would have an extra teacher and/or an aid. During reading, or free time, the spec. ed students would recieve their extra help. Now I think that is great for them, I am not saying they don't deserve an eductaion equal to the other kids but I don't think its fair for all the students. There are some that are well above what is taught in class yet they have no option except to be there, and remain unchallenged.

Are the students that need extra help but don't qualify for an IEP given it?

FTR I do not believe special ed funding should be cut, I just think that there should be more going towards advanced ed, KWIM.

I agree!

 

[brerrabbit]

I have not read all the posts here and a few have mentioned something similar but the real problem is the same one that lead us to our current economic and mortgage problems. In general terms I refer to it as entitlement. We as a society have been convinced that we are entitled to big houses, big paychecks, travel, and all the newest best electronics we want.

The only part they left out is how you get these things. You get them by getting a good education, working hard and succeeding.

I have a DS who has graduated from college and a DD who is a freshman in college, have been a substitute teacher and spent a lot of time around kids, and in the schools volenteering. My wife works in a local Middle School and is around kids every day. Based on what we see and what I hear from her is that every parent thinks their kid is a genius and that if the child fails it's not the kids fault or the parents fault but rather the school, or the systems fault.

Like it or not all people, and kids are not alike. At the time I hated the thought but after many years have come to realize the reality of a saying one of my old bosses used to use. She was succesful and very inteligent in a male dominated industry (Oil Business). When she dealt with people that were less than compitant she would always say they didn't need to be in that job. When pressed further and asked what they should be doing, she would reply "the world needs ditch diggers too!" I alway s thought that was kind of harsh, but the reality is all people are different and that needs to be considered. Our education system needs to address the fact that every kid that walks through the door does not aspire to Harvard. I would like to see more training for trades available in high schools and seperate career training for kids that choose different paths.

Parents need to be responsible and if kids are terrors in school and not willing to learn and to not be disruptive then if the rules won't allow you to punish them then start giving citations to the parents. Someone other than the schools whose disipline power has been all but eliminated needs to be held accountable for the kids actions. When the worse punishment available to schools is In School Suspension where the kid is segregated from the rest of their class then there will be no change. Kids actually prefer it to sitting in class.

Until we convey to the majority that we are not entitled to financial success, we have to accept accountability for our own actions and that we really do have to work hard for success we will continue to have problems in the educational system as well as in life.

 

[daughtersrus]

I think that's really the crux of the problem right there. Despite the fact that a lot of these problems really are medical (if you need a doctor to diagnose it's medical imo) the insurance companies won't fund the treatment arguing it's educational. So schools are left holding the bag. Really things like speech therapy, OT, and all of the specialized programs like ABA should be covered by MEDICAL insurance. That's not saying these kids wouldn't need aids; they probably would...but really the aid you see is only part of the funding equation in a lot of special needs cases.

Getting a medical diagnosis is not as easy as it sounds. I know MANY people that have a child that sadly will never find a name for what is causing their delays/problems. Insurance companies will use this as a loophole. They also use the word plateau to deny services. Besides that, most insurance polices have a life-time max. What happens to the child when they become uninsurable? I may be wrong but I thought school districts can bill the government for the cost of therapy provided by a school for children that are on government insurance. If these services became the responsibility of insurance, I am sure that we would have a debate from many that it's not fair for their premiums to increase to cover these costs.

And I agree that if a child is being disruptive that it's not okay.

What about a regular ed student that is disruptive. My oldest DD was in a self-contained gifted program with a student that was constantly disrupting the class. What classroom should he have been put in?

It's not always like that, and honestly the parents of special ed kids who are having problems in the class room are probably fighting to get their kids a more apropriate placement; if they aren't they should be.

I agree.



The only other thing that I would add is that a parent of child with an IEP I think that if the school/district administrators put as much effort into helping the child and following the law as as they do fighting with parents, everyone would better off. Why does it take a parent filing for Due Process for them to follow the law? The amount that is spent on lawyers alone has got to be a fortune.

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

I am a big believer that all children have the right to an appropriate education.

Special Ed children should be educated, but not at the expense of the other children.

Gifted children should be educated, but not at the expense of the other children.

NCLB made it so that everyone loses. All of the educators efforts are focused on getting everyone to the "level". So the special ed children get pushed, the average children get set aside and the gifted children get told to just wait.

 

[Hoodie]

Not true. Here's a link for you.
http://www.units.muohio.edu/eap/about/ncate/programs/pdf/Advising/IS-MildModGifted.pdf

For what it's worth, my DD is a special ed major (currently doing her field base). Part of her education includes how to make accommodation to the curriculum for all of her students. One of her placements so far has been regular ed classes in which she has had to adapt the curriculum for a few students that are above the regular ed students.



Many of the children that we're talking about may not grow up to be leaders but that doesn't mean that they won't be productive members of society. Would you rather spend the money on educating them or providing life-long care?

I know many SpEd teachers, and they will admit that their specialized training was for learning disabilities, not for gifted. That may have changed in the past couple of years, but that was not their speciality.

And for the latter comment, in many cases we end up doing both. This is not in regards to those that just need a little help, but the idea of "inclusion" has gone too far. When I went to school those that were in SpEd classes would work with their teachers for a period or two to help them with specific work or to address their specific learning disabilities. Now "inclusion" includes kids all over the spectrum, from dyslexia (which were the majority of problems when I went - and where SpEd was a great asset) to autism to severe physical and mental disabilities. Some of these can be addressed with SpEd classes and can be a huge asset to the child. Unfortunately many of these won't help do anything other than make the parent feel better. My best friend was a SpEd teacher and left because of this. Her cousins were autistic and it's all she wanted to do. Unfortunately she found herself as a caretaker for kids who could barely function. She drew the line when a parent wanted her to change an 8 year old's diaper. This was in public school not a special school and these kids were included in the regular classroom.

There is a place of SpEd classes in public schools, but there needs to be limits on how much is expected. Kids who unfortunately are so disabled that they require fulltime one-on-one aides (also paid for out of the school budget) are the ones that sadly will not become "productive" members of society. They are a drain on already limited resources.

Again, focus on the academics. Can the child read, write and calculate at greade level? If yes - then they move on. If no, then they stay back. There is too much of a push to keep everyone moving forward regardless of ability to do so. This includes kids with disabilities. If they cannot function at an appropriate grade level, then they shouldn't be in that grade, regardless of how old they are.

 

[Hoodie]

That's because bringing all children up to grade level is the goal of No Child Left Behind and school funding depends on this. They don't have to worry about the kids that are doing well. The act should have been called The Gifted Child Left behind.

This started LONG before NCLB. Our school district eliminated the gifted program in the late 80's because of budget contraints. Legally, SpEd classes and aides had to be funded so the cuts were to the gifted and talented program which did not have the legal need for funding and was considered a "perk".

 

[Feralpeg]

God in and drugs/gangs out....
Hows that.

So eliminate single parents and put God back in the schools and everything will be peachy? Good grief!

As a single parent and a former teacher, the problems are complex. There is no simple solution. I had just as many problems with students of two-parent families as I did with those from a single parent home.

Parents need to start taking some responsibility (regardless of how many parents are involved) and stop blaming everyone but their child. Parents need to set expectations for their children and they need to be willing to follow up with consequences if their children don't meet those expectations. I'm not saying that every child needs to have exceptional grades, but every child should be giving their best effort.

If a child falls behind, the parents should examine what they can do to help their child. It needs to be a combined effort between the parents and the teacher. While it is great to boost a child's self-esteem, parents go way overboard. Sometimes, children do bad things or fail. It happens and parents need to accept this and let their children know it is unacceptable.

Children also need to realize that the way to success (rewards, after-school activities, etc.) is through hard work. Why set children up for failure by making them think that life will just hand them whatever they want? I've also worked in the corporate world and have seen a great decline in work ethics over the years. Many young people just think that they should be given the rewards without putting forth effort. This is not a good situation.

Let's not take the easy route and put all the blame on the schools. Society in general has created this situation. We need to re-examine how we view success and the route to reach success and then, apply the necessary changes across the board.

I will admit that I pushed my DD. I let her know that I would never have a problem with the grades she brought home as long as I knew that she had given her best. I stopped worrying about her grades a long time ago, because I know that she will always put forth her best effort. She knows that she is responsible for her own success or failure.

 

[KiminChicago]

I just subbed in a middle school Special Ed classroom that contained students who had been bussed in from the local nursing home. One child was unable to see or hear or move around and had suffered severe brain damage as an infant. Basically, he showed up in this classroom and the teachers laid him out on some mats to sleep and periodically moved him so he wouldn't get bed sores. It took two people and a mini-crane like device to lift him in and out of his wheelchair and change his diaper. Now who benefits from bussing this child to a public school? Is this what NCLB was intended to do?

 

[ZephyrHawk]

My mother (former teacher and administrator) would say a combination of special ed requirements and NCLB. She says its impossible for a public school to keep up with NCLB when they're simultaneously required to teach a certain number of special ed students. And we're not talking ADD type special ed, but the fairly severe disorders. Basically, if a parent wants their kid to go to public school, the school is required to make accomodations for the child. These kids cannot be expected to improve annually at the level the government expects them to, and as a result the school fails.

I would personally say parents are a big issue. They expect teachers to be surrogate parents, but won't allow them to discipline. They expect all their children to get good grades, but don't force their kids to do homework or complain that their kids have too much. When my mom became an administrator she had problems with kids getting into fights and the like...but then you expect that sort of nonsense from hormonal kids. It was when the parents would come in and be worse than the kids that it really bothered her. On more than one occasion she had to call the police to break up fights involving parents, and once stopped a fight between kids where the parents were present egging the kids on. My mom has a story of a father who came in to make sure his kid had a towel for...something...don't know what...but he came right as the fire alarm was going off. My mom knew it wasn't a "drill" because she was the one that ran the drills. The man came up to talk to her and she said she couldn't talk just then and asked him to leave the building as there was a fire emergency in progress. After a few more words he threw the towel at her and left.

We talked for weeks afterwards about "towel guy".

 

[Boo'sMom]

Teaching to the test.

 

[luvmy3]

As a single parent and a former teacher, the problems are complex. There is no simple solution. I had just as many problems with students of two-parent families as I did with those from a single parent home.

Parents need to start taking some responsibility (regardless of how many parents are involved) and stop blaming everyone but their child. Parents need to set expectations for their children and they need to be willing to follow up with consequences if their children don't meet those expectations. I'm not saying that every child needs to have exceptional grades, but every child should be giving their best effort.

If a child falls behind, the parents should examine what they can do to help their child. It needs to be a combined effort between the parents and the teacher. While it is great to boost a child's self-esteem, parents go way overboard. Sometimes, children do bad things or fail. It happens and parents need to accept this and let their children know it is unacceptable.

Children also need to realize that the way to success (rewards, after-school activities, etc.) is through hard work. Why set children up for failure by making them think that life will just hand them whatever they want? I've also worked in the corporate world and have seen a great decline in work ethics over the years. Many young people just think that they should be given the rewards without putting forth effort. This is not a good situation.

Let's not take the easy route and put all the blame on the schools. Society in general has created this situation. We need to re-examine how we view success and the route to reach success and then, apply the necessary changes across the board.

I will admit that I pushed my DD. I let her know that I would never have a problem with the grades she brought home as long as I knew that she had given her best. I stopped worrying about her grades a long time ago, because I know that she will always put forth her best effort. She knows that she is responsible for her own success or failure.

 

[crashbb]

It IS a fact that kids with BOTH parents do SOO much better than just one.
Single parent households is a HUGE issue in America. Kids NEED a mommy and a daddy. They just do.

Wait, so you mean if my mum hadn't died and, thus condemned me to growing up without both a mummy and daddy (how selfish of her), I could be doing so much better in terms of education?? I wouldn't have to settle for a lowly PhD?

Wow - generalize much?

 

[RitaZ.]

It IS a fact that kids with BOTH parents do SOO much better than just one.
Single parent households is a HUGE issue in America. Kids NEED a mommy and a daddy. They just do.

So, tell me, what happens if mommy or daddy dies? The remaining parent didn't choose to become a single parent.

 

[JR6ooo4]

the biggest problem is no respect for the value of an education.

Society has chosen that it is better to pay a footbal quarterback 120 million for five years than to have a decent education system.

Mikeeee

 

[Lauree]

Our education system as a whole has many problems, but each district has their own set of unique problems. That's why this is a very complex issue and doesn't have an easy "fix." In my experience, for children of all abilities to succeed, all parties have to do their "part." This includes the child, parent/guardian, teacher, administrator, and local leaders.

 

[freckles and boo]

Kids who unfortunately are so disabled that they require fulltime one-on-one aides (also paid for out of the school budget) are the ones that sadly will not become "productive" members of society. They are a drain on already limited resources.

Again, focus on the academics. Can the child read, write and calculate at greade level? If yes - then they move on. If no, then they stay back. .

Interesting. I have a child who can read and "calculate" at grade level (her writing is sloppy because of lax ligaments but still quite legible). She also has a one-on-one because she needs regular redirection and visual supports. So which is it? Should she be accommodated or not? The fact is, her aide costs less than the tuition to our co-op's autism program. She is high-functioning and smart. I suspect she will be a very "productive" member of society, especially if she continues to receive the quality of education she gets now. We had the option of putting her in a regular education first grade with an aide and the self-contained 1st/2nd grade with an aide. The expectations were HIGHER of the students in the 1st/2nd cross cat class. She gets more individualized education AND she is picking up on quite a bit of the second grade reading. It was an easy decision. Plus, her aide does help with the other children when it is appropriate.