Problem in education

[ZephyrHawk]

So we should pull out all of those 3 and 4 yo that are in Early Childhood

Three and 4 year olds go to public school? Well, not in my school system, but I assume it's possible wherever you are. That being said, three and four year olds that cannot flush a toliet do not belong in a public school. Heck, they can't even get into the Neverland Club.

as well as the 16 that lost control of her bowels when her spine was injured in a car accident because although her mind is full functioning, she can not use the bathroom like her peers and send them to private schools and pass those costs on to the taxpayers?

Um....yes. Or hire tutors. Or homeschool.

Can you post a link to this part of the education laws?

Did I refer to any laws? If I had I would have posted them. I believe I made a judgment call. This isn't a court of law, so it's allowed.

Burden? If a teacher sees his/her students as a burden, maybe it's time for them to find another career.

Okay, I hear you, he or she can go look for a job where they don't have disabled kids. But you're assuming that this is the job they signed up for in the first place. Some people want to teach the disabled, and thank goodness for them. But you can't say that everyone who applies for a teaching position at a public school is one of them. Regardless, I was referring to being a burden as a matter of time usage. If you have a class of 30 children, you only have so much time to split between them to ensure that everyone (including the not-so-special) are getting a quality education.

If you think that only disabled children can be disruptive, you need to take your rose colored glasses off. There were children in my DD's gifted class that were far more distuptive than any of the children in my disabled DD's class.

Of course any child can be disruptive, depending on your definition thereof. It sure does get annoying when smart alecky kids talk back or bullies get into fights. But those are the types of challenges teachers go to college to learn to deal with. Changing diapers on non-infants is not.



I certainly hope you don't see any of the posts on this thread as intending a personal attack against you, your daughters, or their schooling (which sounds excellent). Know that this is not the case, especially from my end. Regardless, as we have now wandered far from the OP's original question, I shall be gracefully bowing out of this growing threadwar.

 

[edwardsfire]

So, tell me, what happens if mommy or daddy dies? The remaining parent didn't choose to become a single parent.

You know exactly what i was talking about.
99.9% of single parent kids do not fall in your category.
Its not just about schools either, Kids with both parents do better in general.

 

[Goofyluver]

You know exactly what i was talking about.
99.9% of single parent kids do not fall in your category.
Its not just about schools either, Kids with both parents do better in general.

 

[edwardsfire]

Not just in American culture, but the world over, Parents (S)..Or a family unit-is the most important thing in raising children.
One cant find ANY culture that supports a single parent situation.
Obviously, there are times when that is just the way it is and the parent does the best they can, and thats obviously GREAT.
But, there is no argument for the benefit of only having one parent.
Kids NEED both.

 

[crashbb]

Not just in American culture, but the world over, Parents (S)..Or a family unit-is the most important thing in raising children.
One cant find ANY culture that supports a single parent situation.
Obviously, there are times when that is just the way it is and the parent does the best they can, and thats obviously GREAT.
But, there is no argument for the benefit of only having one parent.
Kids NEED both.

If "Kids NEED both" then, by definition, any child without both parents would either be a failure or cease to exist. You could agree that children do better with two parents, but you cannot make the claim that "Kids NEED both".

 

[edwardsfire]

If "Kids NEED both" then, by definition, any child without both parents would either be a failure or cease to exist. You could agree that children do better with two parents, but you cannot make the claim that "Kids NEED both".

Your comments are absurd.
But to have a good core healthy family,
Kids need both.
There is no argument agaisnt that.
Show me any kid that doesnt want a mom and dad.
It human nature, to want/have both.

 

[daughtersrus]

Three and 4 year olds go to public school? Well, not in my school system, but I assume it's possible wherever you are. ..

I think that you are mistaken.

Federal Law Public Law (P.L.) 99-457 (1986). Individuals with Disabilities Education Act Amendment of 1986. Guarentees free appropriate early intervention (birth through age two) (Part H) and special education (age three to twenty-one) (Part B).

http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,1607,7-140-43092-127146--,00.html

Um....yes. Or hire tutors. Or homeschool.

Did I refer to any laws? If I had I would have posted them. I believe I made a judgment call. This isn't a court of law, so it's allowed.

Thank goodness those that make the laws don't agree with you.

Okay, I hear you, he or she can go look for a job where they don't have disabled kids. But you're assuming that this is the job they signed up for in the first place. Some people want to teach the disabled, and thank goodness for them. But you can't say that everyone who applies for a teaching position at a public school is one of them. Regardless, I was referring to being a burden as a matter of time usage. If you have a class of 30 children, you only have so much time to split between them to ensure that everyone (including the not-so-special) are getting a quality education. .

IDEA became a federal law in 1975. I'd have to guess that few of the those currently teaching began their career prior to that.

Of course any child can be disruptive, depending on your definition thereof. It sure does get annoying when smart alecky kids talk back or bullies get into fights. But those are the types of challenges teachers go to college to learn to deal with. Changing diapers on non-infants is not. .

Then they could always make changing diapers the responsibility of the school nurse.

 

[Ember]

Your comments are absurd.
But to have a good core healthy family,
Kids need both.
There is no argument agaisnt that.
Show me any kid that doesnt want a mom and dad.
It human nature, to want/have both.

It should be said that from what I've read it's more important to have a strong, healthy relationship with both a maternal and a paternal figure. Simply having two parents about the place isn't going to magically make for a better environment. If you have a dad who works 14 hours a day then comes home to watch television at night it really it not really that much different from having a single parent. You might also have a situation where a child bonds with an uncle or grandfather who will then provide a strong paternal influence.

Also, kids don't NEED both to be successful. Yes, it's certainly an ideal and statistically children with both TEND to do better, but that's not a causal relationship. Just as children from homes where parents read TEND to become readers, you can have children from homes where parents never read still grow to be book lovers.

 

[mamacatnv]

Three and 4 year olds go to public school? Well, not in my school system, but I assume it's possible wherever you are. That being said, three and four year olds that cannot flush a toliet do not belong in a public school. Heck, they can't even get into the Neverland Club.

My BFF's son received services thru the state until he reached 3 years of age. He has a genetic syndrome that has caused severe learning and physical delays. He is assessed overall at 12-18 months of age. When he turned 3 the states early intervention programs turned him over to the school district. He attends a pre-school program 4 days a week. He has a "team" which includes an occupation, physical and speech therapist as well as his class room teacher. The school sends a bus to pick him up and take him home every day (but our elementary students have to walk 2 miles before they are eligible for busing). He goes year round with breaks at Christmas and Easter. His parents pay nothing, the rest of us pay for summer school. My BFF also has a very bright 6th grader, she gave up on the public schools and her 6th grader is in a Charter School. She feels very torn that the resources being dumped onto her son are not even comparible to the limited resources her daughter had.

I am not a teacher but the mom of a special ed student and the mom of two DDs that are special education majors (both of whom were in gift programs within our district~our district does classify these programs as special ed as well). My district is not by any means perfect (maybe you have me confused with someone else). As a matter of fact, my youngest DD currently attends a private school (at the district's expense). I am not a fan of inclusion for everyone and have actually fought to have my DD in a self-contained class. Hence my opinion that I think that many administrators spend a lot of time fighting with parents instead following the law and trying to do what is best for the child.

Are you a special ed teacher?

I meant what I said sincerely, I am not trying to be sarcastic. From everything I have read and heard your school district does not seem to be the norm and that had me curious.

No, not a SpEd teacher, just a Mom with a family member who is a SpEd "manager" and a BFF who has a special needs child.

Why does your DD attend private at the districts expense?

Last year my DD was in a public school with 20 kids in her class. Of those 20, 12 had issues of some sort. 3 had severe behavior problems, 2 were so developmentally delayed they couldn't keep up and I am unclear on what the rest of the issues were. I do know that my DD's teacher was frustrated to the point of seeking further education to get out of her profession. She said she wasn't able to teach anymore and it broke her heart.

This is part of the problem with NCLB. If you look at my DD's portfolio assessment results, you would think that she is at grade level when in reality, she is not. The school is not penalized because her goals have been brought down to a point where she will easily meet them so that the school doesn't get placed on a watch list. Instead of teaching the students, the teacher is busy filling out neat little graphs and assembling a nice binder to send off to the state instead of instructing the students.

Again I'm curious. When my DD's former public school failed to make the grade and I questioned the Principal (3 years in a row) as to why. Each and every time the response was the same.......Special Ed. Now, if SpEd kids are held to a lower standard or an individualized standard then why all the arguments with NCLB and why are the SpEd kids "blamed"? I have read this type of scenario over and over also.

But when I advocate for my child I am seen as a terrible person because my child does not have documented physical or mental disabilities. And no matter how much I advocate there are NO programs to help my daughter, unless I go outside the school district and pay for it myself.

I know exactly what you mean. I have been called all sorts of names for wanting the best for my kid also and asking why things are not equitable.

I moved my DD to a Charter School - funny, they get the same funding from the State but are so much more efficient in what they use it for. They also do not accomodate kids that can't keep up which was a big draw for us. They do have SpEd and they do have kids with IEP's etc. However, they won't put up with problem behavior and they will not lower their standards to accomodate anyone. My DD has learned more in the past 6 months than she learned in the prior 2 years. She is in math and reading programs that are ability based. She loves being challenged and really loves not having to put up with beastly or threatening behavior. This school supports competition, encourages success and rewards it. The kids who made Honor Roll were recognized in front of the whole school and invited to an ice cream social. There were 3 tiers of students "honored" and for kids who bring up grades they can make "On a Roll" and be recognized for their achievements also.

 

[edwardsfire]

If you have a dad who works 14 hours a day then comes home to watch television at night it really it not really that much different from having a single parent.

.

Yeah, "providing" the family with monies to eat and keep a roof over their head is a bad thing...

Better yet, lets just let the taxpayers provide, who needs a Dad.

 

[Feralpeg]

Your comments are absurd.
But to have a good core healthy family,
Kids need both.
There is no argument agaisnt that.
Show me any kid that doesnt want a mom and dad.
It human nature, to want/have both.

My daughter doesn't know her father. She has no idea who he is and it doesn't bother her in the least. She is a happy, well-rounded person. We are very close. I am there for her and she is there for me.

She is not a messed up person. She's never been in trouble. In fact, she received an award from her high school for her academic achievement. She has been on the Dean's List every semester since starting college (she is a second semester junior at Florida State). She carries a 3.9 grade point average and is a member of several academic honors organizations. For fun, she is a member of the Florida State University circus. She loves acting and had a major role in a cable based television program for children that still airs around the world. She has many friends and several of her professors have told me that she is absolutely wonderful.

Gosh, I guess I really screwed her up by not supplying her a father figure.

 

[chrisw127]

How so?
From Time 2007 - American schools spend more than $8 billion a year educating the mentally retarded. Spending on the gifted isn't even tabulated in some states, but by the most generous calculation, we spend no more than $800 million on gifted programs.

Go to the disabilities board - see what some of the parents speak of - children who will never learn to read or write or do simple math. Yet they go to school with all sorts of taxpayer funded aides. What exactly are they being educated in?

The number of aides, the special accommodations, the distractions to other students - all of those have a large cost.

Public schools are failing the average and above average child.

So what do you propose we do?

 

[crashbb]

Your comments are absurd.
But to have a good core healthy family,
Kids need both.
There is no argument agaisnt that.
Show me any kid that doesnt want a mom and dad.
It human nature, to want/have both.

There is a difference between wanting and needing. Sure, would I have preferred to have my mother not die of breast cancer? Of course But I have grown up and been very well educated without her.

You CANNOT argue that "Kids need both" - no matter how much you would like to.

I guess that my father should have put me up for adoption - so that I could have "a good core healthy family" with two parents. That would have been so much better, and, according to you, what I needed.

 

[chrisw127]

The only thing I know about you is that you are a single parent raising a child with disabilities. I have no idea whether or not your son is capable of learning.

However, can he learn the appropriate things to move to the next grade? Can he do math, memorize history facts, write papers, read short stories (depending on grade of course). If not, I stand by my statement that he does NOT belong in school.

As regards to rehab - if someone needs life skills or to be taught how to live with their disability - thats what rehab is for. That is not for a public school to teach.

I really hope you never have to eat your words. Every child deserves an education. There isn't one person here who couldn't end up disabled tomorrow, nor their children. I think compassion is seriously underrated.

 

[freckles and boo]

When my DD's former public school failed to make the grade and I questioned the Principal (3 years in a row) as to why. Each and every time the response was the same.......Special Ed. Now, if SpEd kids are held to a lower standard or an individualized standard then why all the arguments with NCLB and why are the SpEd kids "blamed"? I have read this type of scenario over and over also.
.

NCLB REQUIRES children with cognitive disabilities to take the SAME tests as children without cognitive disabilities. It requires children who are new to English to take the SAME tests as native speakers. Only a small percentage of children are exempt. If the numbers of children with cognitive disabilities or who are new to English exceed that percentage their scores are considered in the overall. To blame a child with cognitive disabilities for dragging down scores on a test they should not have even been taking is ridiculous. NCLB needs a major overhaul to accurately evaluate for growth in children with disabilities and language barriers.

 

[Goofyluver]

Not just in American culture, but the world over, Parents (S)..Or a family unit-is the most important thing in raising children.
One cant find ANY culture that supports a single parent situation.
Obviously, there are times when that is just the way it is and the parent does the best they can, and thats obviously GREAT.
But, there is no argument for the benefit of only having one parent.
Kids NEED both.

"Family Unit" is a subjective term.

Your family unit can be as large or small as you make it.

Kids NEED a stable "family unit". Whether that be one parent, two parents, a grandparent, etc.

We've had this discussion before Edward.

Life happens.

You do with what you've got.

You seem to be very set in your ways. Rigidity leaves much to be desired and closes you off to learning about others and their lives. Open your eyes Edward. The world isn't as scary as you're making it.

 

[mamacatnv]

So what do you propose we do?

What would happen if schools were run by CEO's and run like a business? I seem to remember reading of districts that had done this.

I also agree that the teachers union needs to go. My Aunt is a long time educator and all she spouts off about is money, money and more money. I don't think money is the answer. I think an overhaul is needed nation wide.

I also think as unpopular as it may be that we need to go back to the drawing board and separate kids and educate them according to their abilities. We need trade and vocational schools - they are not all college material but they should all be given an opportunity to learn how to support themselves to the best of their abilities.

We need to get over worrying about hurting Johnnys feelings and encourage our kids to excel and to succeed. We need to stop babysitting. If a kid can't behave get them out of the school, let their parents deal with them.

 

[Goofyluver]

I really hope you never have to eat your words. Every child deserves an education. There isn't one person here who couldn't end up disabled tomorrow, nor their children. I think compassion is seriously underrated.

Hell...compassion is absent in some.

 

[tw1nsmom]

I really hope you never have to eat your words. Every child deserves an education. There isn't one person here who couldn't end up disabled tomorrow, nor their children. I think compassion is seriously underrated.

I couldn't agree more.

I'm so saddened and angered by some of the posts about children with special needs. The ignorance and lack of compassion abound. So much so that I'm not going to argue with those people who have no clue.

I can only say that they truly deserve to feel for at least a day what parents of children with disabilities go through. The struggle we go through to keep our children safe in a way they'll never have to worry. There's so much that they deserve to have to experience but thank god that they likely won't. Thank god for their children that they never have to experience what my Ds and other children have to, because their parents would be ill equipped to deal with any of it.

My DS receives many services at school. Without them he would be completely left behind with no chance for success. With them, he's a c plus, b minus student with unlimited potential. I work with my Ds and DD for hours every day to help reinforce what they're learning at school. Before you blame special needs kids for the failure for our schools maybe you need to look at your own actions with your own children. Do you volunteer in the school? Are you doing something about the problem or are your just pointing fingers?

Some people are pathetic.

 

[Holly]

One cant find ANY culture that supports a single parent situation.

You have obviously never taken a basic anthropology course. There have been many throughout history and there are still some today.