Principal 'paddling' first grader for damaging computer

[DLgal]

I knew I shouldnt have posted. My kids are going to be getting into fights every day at school and become juvenile delinquents and are doomed to a life in jail.

Or is it they're going to be doomed to a life of not trusting adults?

Or they're going to hate me their entire lives?

I've lost track.

How old are your kids? Why don't you ask them what the most effective way would be to teach a kid not to run into the street? Don't give them any background. Just say, "hey, if you were in charge of watching a small child and that child ran into the street, what would you do to make sure they didn't do it again."

 

[dez1978]

You know the Morgan Wallen song that says " I can see me sitting in the back of a cop car" Thats me 100% if anyone touches my kid.

 

[Pink Partridge]

I think you are being a bit overly defensive with your cognitive dissonance/semantics arguments. Like you, I spanked two of my kids. But I am fully willing to acknowledge that I HIT them. Smacking someone with your hand is the literal definition of HITTING. You may believe that it's an appropriate form of discipline or you can believe that spanking is acceptable in certain situations and therefore not abuse, but I don't know how you can argue and say that it's not hitting.

I love when parents can learn, evolve, and change.

I used to be a horrible "yeller". Screamed at everything. I actually heard myself in the background of a video my husband was taking of the garden. I was inside. That is how bad I was. I made it my goal to change right there and then. It took control, but I am a much better parent for it.

 

[GreatLakes]

I remember some kids being paddled when I was in first grade (early 80's) but not since. I had a 7th grade teacher that had a paddle and would bring it out from time to time but it was never used nor did anyone think it would be. It was more of a joke between him and the class. I don't know of anyone my age that has had corporal punishment at school. Most of us got spanked as kids by our parents. I fully deserved each one I got personally.

I don't hit or spank my kid. I just don't think it personally accomplishes anything. In a situation with danger, like running towards a road, he would get grabbed to keep him safe and I'm sure it would be uncomfortable but it wouldn't be done with the intention to physically hurt him. He would then be very seriously talked to. We don't really yell, in his 4+ years I don't think he has been yelled at once. He sure thinks strict talk at a normal conversation is yelling and will say to stop yelling at him when he is being disciplined but the fact he thinks that is what yelling is, as opposed to the old school screaming we got, just shows he doesn't actually know what yelling is.

 

[Pink Partridge]

A few years ago, a principal named Pam Edge told a mother she had the choice to have her child spanked, or be suspended. He was 5. The woman didn't seem overly educated, and believed she would go to jail if her child missed anymore school. He had a truancy issue, due to being tested for cancer (don't know if the mom lied about that). Regardless, the principal really had no problem spanking this boy.
The mother allowed the vice principal to pin her child down, while the principal spanked him. She did record it while pretending to text.

As the little boy screamed in terror "Mommy HELP ME!", Principal Pam Edge said "“Nope, Momma can’t help. Momma might help if she stood outside the door.” And then informed the mother "He’s getting a spanking. He’s getting a paddling.” Can you imagine the power she felt over that mother to behave like that?

And powerful she is indeed. Pam Edge is still principal of Jasper County Primary School in Georgia. Nothing happened to her. She even looks crazy and ready to dominate parents that aren't as educated as her.

So unless the United States bans school staff from carrying out corporal punishment on children and makes it a law in every state, these people in schools will continue abuse children. They are psychopaths supported by the school board, as well as the law.

 

[DisLiss]

You know the Morgan Wallen song that says " I can see me sitting in the back of a cop car" Thats me 100% if anyone touches my kid.

That's easier to say if you have other people in your life in stable safe situations who can care for your children while you're being carted off with the police. Does this woman have that same safety net for her kids? I don't know. But I imagine she may have played that scenario through her own head and realized the outcome wouldn't be good for her and her family.

 

[karen4546]

I think you are being a bit overly defensive with your cognitive dissonance/semantics arguments. Like you, I spanked two of my kids. But I am fully willing to acknowledge that I HIT them. Smacking someone with your hand is the literal definition of HITTING. You may believe that it's an appropriate form of discipline or you can believe that spanking is acceptable in certain situations and therefore not abuse, but I don't know how you can argue and say that it's not hitting.

I guess I am equating HIT to something that is done in anger or maliciousness-and equating that to abuse, I suppose. I am not arguing the semantics of it, I am hopefully and obviously not doing a good job of it- but when I disciplined my children, I let the punishment fit what I deemed appropriate at the time. There were times when my children were teens that I probably should have "whooped their butts", but I didn't because they were older and I thought that grounding them in some form was the best way.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You're being hyperbolic.

That's their go to in a lot of conversations. We all have our own speech patterns on the DIS though me def. included

 

[dez1978]

Some of yall never had really difficult children and it shows lol.

you put them in a time out right there. They sit on the ground or a bench. They will understand that you don’t listen you don’t play. And then the next time you go you remind them what happens if you don’t listen- you sit and watch the other kids have fun. Natural consequences to actions. If it escalates you pack up and go home. You don’t listen you don’t get the fun park.
I have carried my daughter out of the local zoo screaming because she would not listen. The next time we went back, she listened. And even now years later she remembers having to leave.

And if someone has truly tried all discipline techniques and actually done them correctly- sometime a 3 minute time out took 30 minutes to accomplish because my daughter would get up early or not sit calmly- it may be time to speak with a psychologist to determine if there of underlying causes such as ODD or ADHD which may require additional supports

My oldest has adhd. We've seen a psychologist, in fact still see him regularly. We've done times outs, we've carried him screaming out of lots of places. He remembers all of them. We've done all the things honestly. Knowing the consequences does not keep him from acting impulsively, nor does it stop the behavior or the fits. So sure, we can sit there while he has a fit or tries to argue about why he can't do whatever bc hes in trouble, heck we can sit there for 2 hours while he cries and have. Or I can give him a quick swat on the butt that rather quickly gets his attention and put a stop to it then and there and move on. His dr and his psychologist are both aware that sometimes he gets spanked and we have talked about it many times. And as they have said often, there is nothing wrong with doing what works when you need to. I'm glad your child responds well to time outs and that thats all it took for you. Not all children are the same. And not all parents who occasionally swat their childrens butts are the same or doing it for the same reasons. And maybe we can quit judging the parents who are doing their best and using all the tools they have to raise decent respectful humans.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Wow...that's incredibly hard to watch. That woman uses fear and intimidation....not only over the child, but the mother as well...and likely the clerk who participated. I'm so glad the mother was able to record it. Her child suffered from that incident, but principal is done. Hopefully she won't be able to harm any more children. I can only imagine how many others were damaged under her supervision. The whole interaction is very calculated...from the instruction to bring $50, to the paddling session. Awful. There are just 1,000 other ways to handle that situation without hitting that child. And she hit her hard...the first whack in particular.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I guess I am equating HIT to something that is done in anger or maliciousness-and equating that to abuse, I suppose. I am not arguing the semantics of it, I am hopefully and obviously not doing a good job of it- but when I disciplined my children, I let the punishment fit what I deemed appropriate at the time. There were times when my children were teens that I probably should have "whooped their butts", but I didn't because they were older and I thought that grounding them in some form was the best way.

You know though you bring up an interesting viewpoint. There's a viewpoint that hitting a child=discipline but somewhere down the road that tone tends to shift into something else. Just going back to the OP the child in question is 6, to some spanking (though I'm excluding paddling here) is just discipline but to a 16 year old it's usually seen as physical abuse. I'm not stating that to get away from the mantra "punishment fit the crime" but in a way that's what I'm talking about. You changed your viewpoint on what the discipline should be because the age so young child=fine to spank, older child=no. But why? Sure sheer size difference but why do we change tactics as someone gets older but consider blunt physical as a main way when they are younger, when their minds are in a precarious spot of learned behavior? When arguably that's the time when you have to be the most careful because things stick as they grow.

 

[karen4546]

Spanking is hitting.

I mean, if your child “spanked” another child, would that be ok since it’s not “hitting”?

Young kids just don’t have the cognitive ability to distinguish that.

There is never a reason to lay a hand on a child as a means of discipline.

Geez... WHY IN THE WORLD IS IT THAT IF SOMEONE HAS A DIFFERENT WAY TO DISCIPLINE A CHILD THAT THEY ARE ABUSIVE?????

HIT is a very strong word IMO. A spanking is not a beating. Believe me, I know the difference as a person who was abused. Ironically, I have a heart shaped scar on my left hand where the hide was ripped away by the rhinestones on a belt that my mother used to beat me when I was 10. A spanking is a spanking. and by definition:
an act of slapping, especially on the buttocks as a punishment for children. I don't think a spanking would have caused me to have a concussion when I was 6 either.

Believe me as a young kid I could have distinguished between a spanking and a HIT or beating.

 

[dez1978]

You know though you bring up an interesting viewpoint. There's a viewpoint that hitting a child=discipline but somewhere down the road that tone tends to shift into something else. Just going back to the OP the child in question is 6, to some spanking (though I'm excluding paddling here) is just discipline but to a 16 year old it's usually seen as physical abuse. I'm not stating that to get away from the mantra "punishment fit the crime" but in a way that's what I'm talking about. You changed your viewpoint on what the discipline should be because the age so young child=fine to spank, older child=no. But why? Sure sheer size difference but why do we change tactics as someone gets older but consider blunt physical as a main way when they are younger, when their minds are in a precarious spot of learned behavior? When arguably that's the time when you have to be the most careful because things stick as they grow.

From my experience, when I was 6, spanking was the thing I was most worried about. Not scared bc I wasn't afraid of my parents but that was the worst punishment in my mind. Also, back in 1983, it wasn't like I had a ton of toys to take away that would have really sent much of a message. We lived out in the country so we stayed busy gardening and stuff. I already did chores so adding that wouldn't have been a punishment either. So spanking was the ultimate "you really messed up" sign as a kid. Once when I was 14 I did something really sneaky and underhanded and got the dreaded switch. Never did that again lol. By the time I was 16 a spanking wasn't scary anymore bc my mom was smaller than me and it probably wouldn't have hurt anyway. So then it was grounding that got my attention. So to me I don't think the spanking so much stopped bc at 16 it would have been assault or abuse when it wasn't considered that at 6 as much as it was that spanking got my attention at 6 but wouldn't have at 16.

 

[karen4546]

You know though you bring up an interesting viewpoint. There's a viewpoint that hitting a child=discipline but somewhere down the road that tone tends to shift into something else. Just going back to the OP the child in question is 6, to some spanking (though I'm excluding paddling here) is just discipline but to a 16 year old it's usually seen as physical abuse. I'm not stating that to get away from the mantra "punishment fit the crime" but in a way that's what I'm talking about. You changed your viewpoint on what the discipline should be because the age so young child=fine to spank, older child=no. But why? Sure sheer size difference but why do we change tactics as someone gets older but consider blunt physical as a main way when they are younger, when their minds are in a precarious spot of learned behavior? When arguably that's the time when you have to be the most careful because things stick as they grow.

Like I posted above. I am almost 52. When I was 6 my mother kicked my head hard against the refrigerator and I peed on the floor. I was 6, do you think I hated but still loved my mother? Yes I did. Did I flinch every time she raised her hand near me? Yes I did. Did I do anything like that to my own children-NO! Even as a six year old laying in your pee on the floor, You wonder what did you do to set your mother off.... My mother had blackouts where she would not even remember doing some of those things.

I don't like that I got off the OP's topic and I think what that principal did is WRONG ! I definitely don't like the people on here shoving their opinions down my throat and pointing out my bad parenting/discipline. That ship has sailed and I think my kiddos turned out pretty great and without needing therapy.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Some of yall never had really difficult children and it shows lol.

I agree with you on a lot of stuff covid related but this is not one of those topics. You should talk to my parents because yeah I wasn't an angel But their physical tactics really didn't work for me. Hindsight 20/20 but for me it only made me more defiant. I never respected my parents when they used physical tactics. Honest truth. I'm sure they thought spanking, a belt, a slap and liquid soap would do the trick but no it just really didn't.

Difficult children IMO should never be code for "I had to resort to spanking because my kid was not an easy kid" People are admitting they spanked and most that did they admit it wasn't what they would have wanted to do looking back.

From my experience, when I was 6, spanking was the thing I was most worried about. Not scared bc I wasn't afraid of my parents but that was the worst punishment in my mind. Also, back in 1983, it wasn't like I had a ton of toys to take away that would have really sent much of a message. We lived out in the country so we stayed busy gardening and stuff. I already did chores so adding that wouldn't have been a punishment either. So spanking was the ultimate "you really messed up" sign as a kid. Once when I was 14 I did something really sneaky and underhanded and got the dreaded switch. Never did that again lol. By the time I was 16 a spanking wasn't scary anymore bc my mom was smaller than me and it probably wouldn't have hurt anyway. So then it was grounding that got my attention. So to me I don't think the spanking so much stopped bc at 16 it would have been assault or abuse when it wasn't considered that at 6 as much as it was that spanking got my attention at 6 but wouldn't have at 16.

But that's the rub isn't it? The thought that if you do this physical thing the child just doesn't repeat the behavior again. But what people tend to ask nowadays (researchers and people alike) is was that the only lasting effect?

The age and size thing is exactly why I said what I said. Why do we accept it when they are younger but not when they are older. You point out (just like the other poster) practical reasons (ones that I don't disagree with why people view it that way) but my question is why do we look at someone smaller, and much younger and when their brains are at the most formulating for life and say "yes me using my hand, stick, belt, whatever" is acceptable but we don't see it the same (well most people) the older the child gets. I was really posing this as a "hmmm..." comment because I don't think it's a question/thought process that has just been solved and known by all.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Can we all agree that a teacher/principal hitting (spanking, whooping, whatever you want to call it) a child should be criminal? That any teacher/principal that hits a student should be fired and charged?

I don't spank. Never have. It's foreign to me. And the rage I feel when I see these school employees abusing these kids (both physically and mentally) is off the charts.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That ship has sailed and I think my kiddos turned out pretty great and without needing therapy.

I do respect where you're coming from and I don't want to continue to pile on so I'll leave the conversation with you on this last note.

I said the very same thing I've quoted above about myself for a long time. Lordy I did, I said I turned out fine, I'm good. But I realized that I wasn't. Took me getting in a committed relationship and then getting married for me to realize I had picked up things from the past (and my husband had his own things too). Will that be everyone? No it certainly won't and I won't pretend it is. I'm just saying I used to say "I turned out fine" but really I just didn't want to look at myself and say that I wasn't fine because it's really difficult to admit to yourself that you're not really fine that something affected you and you didn't even know it.

On the aspect of needing therapy not all who could benefit from it seek it out.

I appreciate you responding and enjoy your day

 

[sam_gordon]

That's their go to in a lot of conversations.

Yup. Every time.

 

[NotUrsula]

The age and size thing is exactly why I said what I said. Why do we accept it when they are younger but not when they are older. You point out (just like the other poster) practical reasons (ones that I don't disagree with why people view it that way) but my question is why do we look at someone smaller, and much younger and when their brains are at the most formulating for life and say "yes me using my hand, stick, belt, whatever" is acceptable but we don't see it the same (well most people) the older the child gets. I was really posing this as a "hmmm..." comment because I don't think it's a question/thought process that has just been solved and known by all.

I think that for the most part it's the idea that younger children are not yet capable of reason, of understanding the concept of actions having consequences. The Jesuits used to say that the age of reason was 7, but I think that modern psychology sets it a bit younger than that now. Nonetheless, I don't think that really matters so much; there are still some emotions that kids can understand beyond fear.

 

[dez1978]

I agree with you on a lot of stuff covid related but this is not one of those topics. You should talk to my parents because yeah I wasn't an angel But their physical tactics really didn't work for me. Hindsight 20/20 but for me it only made me more defiant. I never respected my parents when they used physical tactics. Honest truth. I'm sure they thought spanking, a belt, a slap and liquid soap would do the trick but no it just really didn't.

Difficult children IMO should never be code for "I had to resort to spanking because my kid was not an easy kid" People are admitting they spanked and most that did they admit it wasn't what they would have wanted to do looking back.

What I'm saying tho is all kids are different. It didn't work for you and made you more defiant. It 100% worked for me, and never did I think badly of my parents or our relationship because of it. What works for your kid might not for another. We don't have to agree about it but it doesn't make either of us wrong you know? We just don't parent the same, and thats ok.

I don't think difficult children = spanking all the time. And I wish I never had to spank my kid, but you know what, there are lots of things I wish I didn't have to do. I wish I didn't have to medicate him, I wish I didn't have to deal with 504's and IEPs but here I am.