Prices Skyrocketting?

My guide snuck in the comment that DVC is going to expand to some really great places but he couldn't tell me all of them-he did mention Hawaii and maybe Mexico. Whatever-they know they need to broaden the base and try to get more people to buy. A lot of people are not fans of having Disneyworld their home base. This is because you always feel obligated to visit the theme parks while down there and that is a huge extra cost. Disney being smart will expand
to more exotic places with their own resorts vs trading through another company.
 
I know.
I'm not quite ready to join TUG. I just wish I had a guide with a continuum from good to bad, with a rating of 0 -10, with a category of (-1000) thrown in for good measure, with reasons why, especially the ones with the (-1000) listing. I'm also curious to know if DVC would be closer to 0 or 10, and why.

You can join TUG as a guest and learn tons! Great forum and info on other timeshares besides DVC. I always heard how expensive DVC is compared to what you can get on other quality TS. The resale market for other TS is pretty amazing and inexpensive compared to DVC. However, DVC is much easier to understand and has solid price stability - IMO. Plus the only game in town for the most part if you want to stay on WDW grounds.

I just picked up some killer deals on a few TS to supplement our DVC vacations. If you are a researcher but don't like to go to a million sites. Even if you are not interested in other TS it doesn't hurt to check TUG out and do some reading, a great way to get up to speed on the TS system as a whole.

We love our DVC but it is WAY TO EXPENSIVE if you are not going to use them in the DVC system. We have a family of 5 and the "villa" accommodations especially 2br are much more economical and comfortable for our coins. Plus when people do trade their DVC with II for other TS accommodations..........someone gets to get them:thumbsup2
 

You can join TUG as a guest and learn tons! Great forum and info on other timeshares besides DVC. I always heard how expensive DVC is compared to what you can get on other quality TS. The resale market for other TS is pretty amazing and inexpensive compared to DVC. However, DVC is much easier to understand and has solid price stability - IMO. Plus the only game in town for the most part if you want to stay on WDW grounds.

I just picked up some killer deals on a few TS to supplement our DVC vacations. If you are a researcher but don't like to go to a million sites. Even if you are not interested in other TS it doesn't hurt to check TUG out and do some reading, a great way to get up to speed on the TS system as a whole.

We love our DVC but it is WAY TO EXPENSIVE if you are not going to use them in the DVC system. We have a family of 5 and the "villa" accommodations especially 2br are much more economical and comfortable for our coins. Plus when people do trade their DVC with II for other TS accommodations..........someone gets to get them:thumbsup2

Thanks! That was very helpful.

However, really...who are the slimeballs?
Who locks you in a room until you purchase?
Does Marriott? Does Wyndham? Does Bluegreen?

What are the other QUALITY timeshares?

Are they still a quality timeshare if they have a resale price of $500?
 
Thanks! That was very helpful.

However, really...who are the slimeballs?
Who locks you in a room until you purchase?
Does Marriott? Does Wyndham? Does Bluegreen?

What are the other QUALITY timeshares?

Are they still a quality timeshare if they have a resale price of $500?

The TS makes money by developer sales and I would guess the vast majority of people don't realize the resale market - lots of theories out there about developer sales.

I have never been to a "timeshare presentation" myself so I can't speak to their tactics, including DVC I did the research and bought sight unseen. However, I have heard that Marriott sales people are not bad with the high pressure tactics but most other companies are pretty bad. Marriott has ROFR along with a few others but DVC appears to be the most aggressive in this area. Marriott is one of the more expensive and they don't use a point system but a season float by the week. I have been to one Marriott resort in Vegas a few years back and WOW the place was just awesome. Now expensive is a relative term because I think DVC is the most expensive system out there especially for what you get. Nice places and we love it but....for the price if you took away the being on WDW grounds there are much better deals out there quality and size of accomidations for your coin.

I'm in the process of picking up some Wyndham points and going to give them a shot. I have seen good things about the system and they look to have some really nice resorts. Wyndham appears to be very flexible with a similar point structure as DVC. I'm also picking up a small TS that is supposed to be a good trader but still close enough for us to drive to if we want to use it for a year. I got this from a suggestion by an experienced person on TUG who also gave me a local agent to deal with on the sale.

To really answer your questions I strongly suggest going out to TUG, sign in as a guest. As a guest you can read and post, there a few things you can't get to but you have access to the forums. I heard this advice on DIS boards too and didn't really want to go through learning the ins and outs of a new forum - I love DIS boards why go anywhere else was my attitude. What did it for me is we just got back from BWV with the young kids and the trip was amazing. YES EVEN RELAXING!!! I decided this is how we need to travel with a full kitchen separate living room etc. However, DVC is just too expensive beyond using it for DVC system. We have 325pts and to add on even through resale is going to be in the 10's of thousand of dollars. So I started to do some research and trust me with all the different TS systems out there WOW your head can really spin. But I love to research things so I thought it was fun and the TUG system is very similar to the DIS boards (if not the same) infrastructure.

Good luck......I'm no expert on TS overall (far from it) but I do feel I made some very informed decisions and my family will reap the benefits. Worse case if things don't work out as planned is I'm out a few grand, while a lot of money it is not in the 10plus thousand range....I can recover from the experience. However, I can't wait to do more vacations for a reasonable price.
 
A lot of people are not fans of having Disneyworld their home base. This is because you always feel obligated to visit the theme parks while down there and that is a huge extra cost.

From Disney's standpoint, that's a feature not a bug.

Disney being smart will expand
to more exotic places with their own resorts vs trading through another company.

Unlikely unless the price of oil decreases substantially and looks to stay there. There is no growth in DVC purchases unless potential customers feel they are going to be able to afford to fly their family to their "home." At this point I'll be shocked (said it elsewhere but I'll say it again) if DVC Hawaii actually gets off the ground.
 
However, really...who are the slimeballs?
Who locks you in a room until you purchase?
Does Marriott? Does Wyndham? Does Bluegreen?

What are the other QUALITY timeshares?

Are they still a quality timeshare if they have a resale price of $500?

I have no idea about presentations. I've never been to one (and own the equivalent of 3 peak-season 2BR weeks at various places). I do know that Wyndham's are not known for being low-pressure. Marriott is a bit more reasonable, from what I understand. I don't know anything about Bluegreen's tours.

I don't consider the resale price an indication of value. It's just a price, and that price may or may not be a good one. There are some timeshares available for resale around $10,000 that are a huge bargain. There are others you could have for $1 that you couldn't pay me to take.

I think Wyndham resale is one of the better values available right now, and put my money where my mouth is, but I'd be very picky about which deeds I put offers on---Wyndham deeds can have widely varying annual costs per point, even at the same resort. I wouldn't even consider anything over $5/K, because you can rent from Wyndham and other owners at or close to that amount.

I second the join-TUG advice. If you are interested in Wyndham specfically, there is a good source of information at an owner's group:

forums.atozed.com
 
From Disney's standpoint, that's a feature not a bug.

But Disney can only grow so far with the theme park audience. It may be their bread and butter to date, but getting non theme park fans to notice their program certainly represents an untapped market.

Perhaps just as important is the ability to KEEP members after they have outgrown the theme park routine. Assuming that the majority of owners are families with young children (a fair assumption IMO), DVC has a challenge ahead to keep those folks as members after the kids have left the nest. Not all 40- and 50-something adults see themselves strolling thru Tomorrowland as their kiddies are entering college.

Unlikely unless the price of oil decreases substantially and looks to stay there. There is no growth in DVC purchases unless potential customers feel they are going to be able to afford to fly their family to their "home." At this point I'll be shocked (said it elsewhere but I'll say it again) if DVC Hawaii actually gets off the ground.

I couldn't disagree more.

People aren't going to quit living their lives just because gas prices are 20% higher in the US than they were last summer. They will adapt via more fuel-efficient cars, electric cars, carpooling, fewer spur-of-the-moment trips to the mall, etc.

We live 1100 miles away from Orlando and right now it would cost us about $80 more to drive, round trip, than it would have a year ago. Anyone who finds themselves rethinking a vacation over $80 has no business owning a timeshare in the first place.

Certainly the US economy is going thru difficult times right now, but historically these types of corrections are normal. Disney's relative silence regarding the Hawaii resort has definitely fueled the rumor mill, but they aren't exactly behind the 8-ball right now. The resort is nearly 4 years away from its scheduled opening. My suspicion is that Disney was forced to reveal their Hawaii plans quite a bit earlier than they had planned. About a week before the announcement, a local newspaper began running stories regarding Disney's involvement in Ko Olina.

It would be completely unprecedented for a recession to stretch from now until 2011. As a shareholder, I certainly hope Disney isn't making its long-term decisions based upon worst case scenarios laid out by the often fear-mongering media. The wise thing to do is to press forward with Hawaii plans and be well-positioned to sell the resort as the economy is booming again.
 
True, the cost of an individual vacation is not going to be excessive. Even if flight prices double, from around $250 to $500 RT for an "average" flight to Orlando, the total cost for a family of four isn't huge. An extra $1000 is nothing to sneeze at, but if that family of four is staying in a 1BR OKW in Magic Season, they are already paying at least $1000/year in ticket media, probably another $700/week in restaurant/dining costs, and almost another $1000/week for the dues.

But it's not just the cost to drive or fly to your vacation---the cost of everything is going up. For example, food prices have risen at 2x inflation in recent months. Why? In part, because almost all of it had to be trucked to you from somewhere else.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/14/b...8800&en=e595b4a356c8c61f&ei=5087 &oref=slogin

Oil prices are going to have a much bigger impact on folks lives than just a marginal increase in vacation costs.
 
I have at least 3 friends who own Marriott T.S. and they rave about them. There are a few Marriott TS in Orlando. But they have so many all over the world. They are on a different system than the DVC and you usually have to rent them per week. I think they are still giving some unbelievable incentives .
Go to www.marriott.com to see their site on vacation ownership.
 
I couldn't disagree more.

People aren't going to quit living their lives just because gas prices are 20% higher in the US than they were last summer. They will adapt via more fuel-efficient cars, electric cars, carpooling, fewer spur-of-the-moment trips to the mall, etc.

Well, my point was about DVC expanding to exotic locales, e.g., Hawaii (actually Hawaii has not been exotic since the 1960s, although I still like it there, but let's not digress). I own DVC and I agree that the theme parks' allure wears thin - we have not even gone into the parks on our last two trips.

However, nothing you say in your post has any bearing on that situation. You can buy a car that gets 100 miles to the gallon and carpool all you want, but that will not affect the number and cost of flights to Hawaii.

DVC Hawaii is an especially interesting case, because Hawaii grows almost none of its food. Virtually everything consumed there has been brought in by ship or plane. Given the rapidly increasing cost of getting those goods to the islands, how much spending money will be needed for a family to dine there at the proposed new DVC resort, compared with Florida?

Many people think the next 50 years is going to look like the past 50 years.... if only we wish hard enough and invent hard enough, it will be possible to do things more or less the way we've all got used to doing them during our lifetimes. I think that's naive, but, we'll see :)
 
However, nothing you say in your post has any bearing on that situation. You can buy a car that gets 100 miles to the gallon and carpool all you want, but that will not affect the number and cost of flights to Hawaii.

DVC Hawaii is an especially interesting case, because Hawaii grows almost none of its food. Virtually everything consumed there has been brought in by ship or plane. Given the rapidly increasing cost of getting those goods to the islands, how much spending money will be needed for a family to dine there at the proposed new DVC resort, compared with Florida?

Many people think the next 50 years is going to look like the past 50 years.... if only we wish hard enough and invent hard enough, it will be possible to do things more or less the way we've all got used to doing them during our lifetimes. I think that's naive, but, we'll see :)

Sorry, still not buying it.

Hawaii attracts nearly 10 million tourists per year. A resort with 800 rooms and an average length-of-stay of 7 nights (Hawaii average is closer to 10) needs to attract 41,000 families annually.

Assume an average family size of about 4 and Disney need only attract 1.5% of the current Hawaii visitor population to fill the resort year-round.

There has also been speculation that Hawaii will become a stop for the new DCL ships under construction (Disney flirted with that concept several years back.) Even if the stop is just an afternoon layover, it will give Disney the opportunity to introduce hundreds of people to the resort each week, fill the restaurants, sell some souvenirs, etc.

Brian makes a good point about price increases in other segments of the economy. But these increases aren't going to materially alter how people live their lives. People on tight budgets will make adjustments, and most of those adjustments will be minor (more off-brands, dine in cheaper restaurants, increased bargain hunting, more economical vehicles, etc.) Those who still have enough disposable income won't change their spending patterns a bit.

Sure some people will be forced to reduce their recreational spending. But let's keep a little perspective on the Hawaii development--Disney is trying to capture only a tiny, tiny share of an already healthy vacation market. Their name alone will go a long way toward making that happen.

Hawaii also appears to be a fairly resilient vacation destination. While tourism dropped sharply immediately following the 9.11.01 attack, by the summer of 2002 tourism was back to within 1% of its prior year numbers. 2002 still represented a period of economic uncertainty, rising gas prices, terror alerts and so on. By comparison, Walt Disney World took MUCH longer to recover from 9.11.
 
I have at least 3 friends who own Marriott T.S. and they rave about them. There are a few Marriott TS in Orlando. But they have so many all over the world. They are on a different system than the DVC and you usually have to rent them per week. I think they are still giving some unbelievable incentives .
Go to www.marriott.com to see their site on vacation ownership.

Check resale closely before even considering buying from Marriott developer, no matter what incentives they are giving. Buying from Marriott developer might right for some but you need to really understand what those incentives are getting you for the extra $$$. Marriott is a ROFR company but not as aggressive in this are as DVC.
 
While I agree that the economy might not destroy the Hawaiian tourism market, there's another possibility. Many of us never thought the Hawaii expansion made a lot of sense in the first place. The economy may cause Disney to rethink the project.
 
Hawaii is already seeing a serious downturn in tourism, and they're projecting worse for 2009 and 2010. It's beginning to hurt their tax base. Their local papers have already had several articles about it. As long as fuel prices stay high, I'd guess Hawaii is in for a few rough years. And I'll be surprised if the DVC in Hawaii hasn't had some serious rethinking concerning a start date. They may just sit on the land and see what happens with the economy.

And I think the economy WILL materially alter how folks live their lives. People on tight budgets probably aren't going to be jetting off to Hawaii. Many will be worrying about how to pay for even a cheap vacation closer to home - if they vacation at all. This will likely affect a fair number of DVC members (and potential members) as well. A DVC purchase may not be a high priority for people who now have to spend several thousand dollars more a year of their disposable income to buy food, fill cars and heat homes. It'll be more than a "minor adjustment" for most people.

DisFlan
 
If Hawaii is having a slow year, then I think next year would be a good year to go! I would think there would be some deals to look for. I just booked a great deal for a cruise to the Med. It is for a mini suite too. We are going in a few months. If you can travel, this is the time. Look for the deals!
 





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