Prices just hit my threshold :-(

[Bluegrrl]

I have an old comic strip cartoon cut out with a giant Mickey sitting at the Lincoln memorial (instead of Lincoln). There are two tourists looking at it, and one says to the other "Disney must be stopped."

I'll post a pic of it. Looses a little in translation.

 

[Luckybee]

For those of you looking for source material regarding annual attendance click on Disunplugged :

http://www.disunplugged.com/2012/07/01/2011-theme-park-attendance-report/

the figures are apparently based on TEA. At the bottom of that page there is a link (obviously a source Disunplugged is comfortable with) to :

http://www.scottware.com.au/theme/feature/atend_disparks.htm

For 1991 which seems to be a source of contention it shows MK 18 mil, Epcot 14.4 mil, and Hollywood 6.8 mil

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Regardless of your feeling on the numbers the issues they are facing now have nothing to do with the attendance numbers. 2 million people sounds impressive but it's not like they're all coming in at the same time. Spread out over 365 days it's just not an unmanageable number. The issues is the incredible lack of growth in the last 15+ years. There have been a handful of new attractions added while they've closed things at the same pace. If you want to control crowds rubber bracelets aren't going to do it. Raising prices certainly might but actually reinvesting in your company and giving people reasons to spread out would have been far more beneficial.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

I think at some point this will backfire. Disney is raising prices and seeing record profits, but as a host of companies can tell you sometimes a focus on short term gains can lead to long term losses.


My money will be spent elsewhere for the next few years. Then I will see. If I am still disenchanted I sell the rest of my DVC points and move on in life. It was fun run, but things Change

 

[wisblue]

For those of you looking for source material regarding annual attendance click on Disunplugged :

http://www.disunplugged.com/2012/07/01/2011-theme-park-attendance-report/

the figures are apparently based on TEA. At the bottom of that page there is a link (obviously a source Disunplugged is comfortable with) to :

http://www.scottware.com.au/theme/feature/atend_disparks.htm

For 1991 which seems to be a source of contention it shows MK 18 mil, Epcot 14.4 mil, and Hollywood 6.8 mil

The data relating to WDW attendance in the chart on the scottware site appears to be the same as the data in the chart in Hydroguy's post. This does not seem like an additional source of information, but just a different site publishing the same information.

The scottware site says that the information about attendance was "collated from random sources all over the internet however many probably came from Amusement Business (no longer around) and www.teaconnect.org". It really doesn't add anything to the question of whether that 1991 data is accurate.

 

[Slapshot1188]

Why are people arguing over the validity of attendance data from 25 years ago in a thread about someone meeting their personal threshold about what they would pay for Disney APs?

The lengths that some people will go to try and prove to other people that their personal threshold is "wrong" is stunning. YOU ARE NOT WRONG IF YOU HAVE NOT HIT YOURS AND WANT TO PAY WHAT DISNEY IS ASKING! Just like the OP and others like me are NOT WRONG FOR HAVING HIT OUR THRESHOLD!

if you want to debate attendance numbers I suggets you make a new thread.
if you want to talk about how you love the new price increases... make a new thread.

 

[robinb]

I think at some point this will backfire. Disney is raising prices and seeing record profits, but as a host of companies can tell you sometimes a focus on short term gains can lead to long term losses.


My money will be spent elsewhere for the next few years. Then I will see. If I am still disenchanted I sell the rest of my DVC points and move on in life. It was fun run, but things Change

My husband and I have also talked about selling some or all of our DVC points. I have been disenchanted for about 2 years and it just keeps on getting worse.

 

[Darcy03231]

I posted earlier in this thread about being one of the people who've hit my threshold and won't be going back for a while.

Some posters seem to have the misconception that because people have hit their threshold they don't have enough money to really go to WDW and Disney wants to weed us out anyway. That we're lowlifes that just need to work harder. I don't think you seem to be getting the point. It has nothing to do with affording it for some of us, it has to do with value. We don't hate Disney. Far from it. We love Disney and are disappointed in the decisions being made.

I'm in the DINK category as my children are grown and out of the house. DH is retired and I have 6 weeks of vacation a year and we travel during all of those vacation weeks. WDW used to be a yearly vacation (sometimes 2-3x a year) for me. Say I have a vacation budget of $15k a year. When my children were young WDW used to get all of that budget (which admittedly was lower then as we were just starting out), as the years went on and our income and vacation time started to go up WDW would get about 2/3 of that budget. Over the last several years it's been 1/3 and now its none. This is money they're now losing from me every year (and I'm sure I'm not the only one). So do you really think they just want the 1 time $10k vacation family or the repeaters who spend just as much (and maybe more) than the young family? Also as income increased so did the type of souvenirs we buy changed. I love the Dooney bags and buy one every trip. I also like the Chamilia charms (on my second Disney bracelet). We eat a table service meal each day and enjoy having a nice leisurely dinner with adult beverages. We don't do our trips on the cheap. We're on vacation. I don't think Disney that short-sighted. I think they're pushing the envelope to see how far they can go. The repercussions of some of their decisions now may not be felt for years. I may be wrong (and I hope so), but I can't think of any business who has started to alienate their loyal customer base that has not gone on to have trouble down the road.

 

[rajak73]

Why are people arguing over the validity of attendance data from 25 years ago in a thread about someone meeting their personal threshold about what they would pay for Disney APs?

The lengths that some people will go to try and prove to other people that their personal threshold is "wrong" is stunning. YOU ARE NOT WRONG IF YOU HAVE NOT HIT YOURS AND WANT TO PAY WHAT DISNEY IS ASKING! Just like the OP and others like me are NOT WRONG FOR HAVING HIT OUR THRESHOLD!

if you want to debate attendance numbers I suggets you make a new thread.
if you want to talk about how you love the new price increases... make a new thread.

Can you point me to the poster that said they love the new price increases? I missed that one.

 

[dlavender]

Just to add in, maybe to "prove" I don't hate Disney.....We are making a last second trip to see family next weekend. Our first thought was, well mostly mine, we have to go to MK for a day! We aren't 100% on the day we will go - Sat or Sun. Both are going to be busy. We are going to have to try to go old school. No FP's, will RD and ride till we drop.

 

[goofy4tink]

I think it's clear they don't want the park at capacity. Capacity causes service issues and keeps the good paying guests away.

If they were honest they would probably say that we would like to weed out the guests that historically tap our infrastructure and do not contribute to incremental revenue.

We would like to focus on a higher end consumer that spends more and restore our high level of service.

Regarding the value resorts, let's be honest they are a piece of crap. And I'm shocked people actually stay in them.

Seriously? Not sure why you feel that way. I stay at Pop, a lot. I own DVC, at BWV and BLT. I can afford to stay just about anywhere I want at WDW. For me, the deluxe resorts aren't worth the extra money unless I'm not going to the parks very often. The moderates are nice, but not sure they're worth the addtl money over a value resort. I refuse to stay at an All Star resort though. I like AoA, but find the LM rooms to be overprices...yeah, they're nice and all, but having stayed there twice, don't feel the need to go back. If I'm at WDW on my own, I love staying at Pop!! Fits my needs perfectly! So NOT a piece of crap.

I haven't seen a value price that low in years. I couldn't get Pop that low with a 30% military discount.

I've found Pop for under $90 recently. No, not on a weekend night though.


Thread is getting hysterical. Do I care about park attendance numbers? Nope, not really. I know, pretty well anyway, what times of year are going to fit my needs at WDW. You aren't going to see me there over NYE. Or over Christmas. Yes, if my dd works at WDW next fall, I'll be visiting her. And maybe for Christmas. But, I doubt I'll be in a park during that time, unless it's very early, or very late in the day. Not to mention that I'll have to buy addtl park passes since my 'gold' AP won't work on those days. A lose-lose situation for me.
I don't much care about why Disney is raising prices. What I do care about is how it impacts my 'experience'. I kept my mouth shut when they stopped allowing guests to 'stockpile' FPs...it was a wonderful thing, and yes, I did it on occasion. I kept my mouth shut when they went with FP+..it has negatively impacted my visits. With FP+, it makes other attractions, that normally didn't have long lines, have lines of at least 25 mins. I mean, seriously....who waits in line for 25 mins to ride Small World?! When the People Mover has a huge line....again, seriously? And the reason for this would be guests killing time until their next FP+ time opened.
As for planning, months ahead, vs no planning until you get there? Stop and listen to guests sometime. Yes, eavesdrop. I've heard more unhappy guests in my last 5 trips than ever before. They had no idea they had to book the FP before leaving home. They had no idea they had to book a restaurant...someone told them there were tables held for walkins. They had no idea that 'such and such attraction' was shut down for months for a rehab. I could go on and on. I've been saying it for 15 years....WDW is no place for spontaneity. You either plan ahead or you lower your expectations. How many people have come here to ask how long it takes to walk from MK to DHS? More times than I care to remember!! They had been to DL and thought it was the same thing...you can walk between parks.
Bookstores are full of Disney guidebooks. It seems like a good idea to spend the $15 in order to have a better, more informed trip.

The vast majority of people don't care about attendance numbers, now or 10 years ago. What some of us do care about it the 'experience' we are going to have. And those of us that have been going to WDW for more than 5 yrs. have seen changes...not such great changes. Two parks that have been almost emptied....Innoventions in Epcot is just sad..used to be fun. And DHS? Well, that needs no discussion. Sure, things are being built..or will be soon. But, to raise prices now, with so much emptiness? Just seems wrong. So much has been taken away, yet costs are higher. I truly think that's the issue so many of us have. We know what we're 'missing'. Those that have been going to WDW for 5 years have no idea how it 'used' to be. No, I don't believe we can go backwards.....but geez, give us something to feel good about if you expect us to pay those prices!! Why is Disney raising prices? Pretty much because they can. I think there is a lot of over-thinking going on here. Disney knows that people will continue paying. They aren't raising costs so much that people will say they aren't going. Disney knows what the limits are. So, why are so many of us complaining? Because we're paying more for a lesser experience.
I've gotten those surveys....sometimes two after a visit. Yet, I've never gotten one concerning ticket costs. Could be because I've been an AP holder for at least 10 yrs now...I obviously don't want a change to what I have. Disney seldom gives you something more for your money..they tend to increase your cost while taking something away and then 'giving' you something else, saying that feedback has indicated that this is what guests want.

And US/IoA? I have to tell you. My dd just visited the HP studios over in the UK last week. The photos she took had me in shock. I couldn't believe how alike those studios were to HP at US/IoA!!!! It was amazing. I have photos of her in Orlando, that look almost identical to the ones she has over in the UK!! US/IoA did an incredible job...I said that after visiting for the third time, and now, after seeing the photos from the UK? Believe it to be downright uncanny! If Disney did something like this, it would be worth the price increases. We shall see what they do going forward, with their planned improvements.

 

[kittyab]

I am a DVC owner, we got the AP because we are here for 2 weeks and it made more economical sense to get a AP then park passes. I told dh last night on our next trip we will just get a few days passes at Disney and go some where else for the rest of the trip.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

I posted earlier in this thread about being one of the people who've hit my threshold and won't be going back for a while.

Some posters seem to have the misconception that because people have hit their threshold they don't have enough money to really go to WDW and Disney wants to weed us out anyway. That we're lowlifes that just need to work harder. I don't think you seem to be getting the point. It has nothing to do with affording it for some of us, it has to do with value. We don't hate Disney. Far from it. We love Disney and are disappointed in the decisions being made.

I'm in the DINK category as my children are grown and out of the house. DH is retired and I have 6 weeks of vacation a year and we travel during all of those vacation weeks. WDW used to be a yearly vacation (sometimes 2-3x a year) for me. Say I have a vacation budget of $15k a year. When my children were young WDW used to get all of that budget (which admittedly was lower then as we were just starting out), as the years went on and our income and vacation time started to go up WDW would get about 2/3 of that budget. Over the last several years it's been 1/3 and now its none. This is money they're now losing from me every year (and I'm sure I'm not the only one). So do you really think they just want the 1 time $10k vacation family or the repeaters who spend just as much (and maybe more) than the young family? Also as income increased so did the type of souvenirs we buy changed. I love the Dooney bags and buy one every trip. I also like the Chamilia charms (on my second Disney bracelet). We eat a table service meal each day and enjoy having a nice leisurely dinner with adult beverages. We don't do our trips on the cheap. We're on vacation. I don't think Disney that short-sighted. I think they're pushing the envelope to see how far they can go. The repercussions of some of their decisions now may not be felt for years. I may be wrong (and I hope so), but I can't think of any business who has started to alienate their loyal customer base that has not gone on to have trouble down the road.

Well said!! I could've written most of it!! (Minus the retired and DINK part... LOL!)

 

[disneyfan2kids]

Can you point me to the poster that said they love the new price increases? I missed that one.

Don't remember the exact id's but both bpadair and someone named "Adam" stated that they felt the increases would result in better trips for them because it would weed out those people that do Disney "on the cheap" or don't work hard enough to afford it. Which would decrease crowds for their family. Yes, I am paraphrasing. But read through thread and you will see.

 

[rajak73]

Don't remember the exact id's but both bpadair and someone named "Adam" stated that they felt the increases would result in better trips for them because it would weed out those people that do Disney "on the cheap" or don't work hard enough to afford it. Which would decrease crowds for their family. Yes, I am paraphrasing. But read through thread and you will see.

That still doesn't say they "love the increase" Not going to read through 42 pages of people bickering about whether they are going to WDW or not because of the increase. If the increase is too much...Don't go. If you don't think it's that much of a increase, go to WDW, it's really not that complicated.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Don't remember the exact id's but both bpadair and someone named "Adam" stated that they felt the increases would result in better trips for them because it would weed out those people that do Disney "on the cheap" or don't work hard enough to afford it. Which would decrease crowds for their family. Yes, I am paraphrasing. But read through thread and you will see.

And if I recall these are both also posters who said "Don't go, someone else will take your place." Arguing that the price increase WON'T affect attendance. So I'm not sure what they really think since it can't be both ways.

 

[disneyseniors]

Seriously? Not sure why you feel that way. I stay at Pop, a lot. I own DVC, at BWV and BLT. I can afford to stay just about anywhere I want at WDW. For me, the deluxe resorts aren't worth the extra money unless I'm not going to the parks very often. The moderates are nice, but not sure they're worth the addtl money over a value resort. I refuse to stay at an All Star resort though. I like AoA, but find the LM rooms to be overprices...yeah, they're nice and all, but having stayed there twice, don't feel the need to go back. If I'm at WDW on my own, I love staying at Pop!! Fits my needs perfectly! So NOT a piece of crap.


I've found Pop for under $90 recently. No, not on a weekend night though.


Thread is getting hysterical. Do I care about park attendance numbers? Nope, not really. I know, pretty well anyway, what times of year are going to fit my needs at WDW. You aren't going to see me there over NYE. Or over Christmas. Yes, if my dd works at WDW next fall, I'll be visiting her. And maybe for Christmas. But, I doubt I'll be in a park during that time, unless it's very early, or very late in the day. Not to mention that I'll have to buy addtl park passes since my 'gold' AP won't work on those days. A lose-lose situation for me.
I don't much care about why Disney is raising prices. What I do care about is how it impacts my 'experience'. I kept my mouth shut when they stopped allowing guests to 'stockpile' FPs...it was a wonderful thing, and yes, I did it on occasion. I kept my mouth shut when they went with FP+..it has negatively impacted my visits. With FP+, it makes other attractions, that normally didn't have long lines, have lines of at least 25 mins. I mean, seriously....who waits in line for 25 mins to ride Small World?! When the People Mover has a huge line....again, seriously? And the reason for this would be guests killing time until their next FP+ time opened.
As for planning, months ahead, vs no planning until you get there? Stop and listen to guests sometime. Yes, eavesdrop. I've heard more unhappy guests in my last 5 trips than ever before. They had no idea they had to book the FP before leaving home. They had no idea they had to book a restaurant...someone told them there were tables held for walkins. They had no idea that 'such and such attraction' was shut down for months for a rehab. I could go on and on. I've been saying it for 15 years....WDW is no place for spontaneity. You either plan ahead or you lower your expectations. How many people have come here to ask how long it takes to walk from MK to DHS? More times than I care to remember!! They had been to DL and thought it was the same thing...you can walk between parks.
Bookstores are full of Disney guidebooks. It seems like a good idea to spend the $15 in order to have a better, more informed trip.

The vast majority of people don't care about attendance numbers, now or 10 years ago. What some of us do care about it the 'experience' we are going to have. And those of us that have been going to WDW for more than 5 yrs. have seen changes...not such great changes. Two parks that have been almost emptied....Innoventions in Epcot is just sad..used to be fun. And DHS? Well, that needs no discussion. Sure, things are being built..or will be soon. But, to raise prices now, with so much emptiness? Just seems wrong. So much has been taken away, yet costs are higher. I truly think that's the issue so many of us have. We know what we're 'missing'. Those that have been going to WDW for 5 years have no idea how it 'used' to be. No, I don't believe we can go backwards.....but geez, give us something to feel good about if you expect us to pay those prices!! Why is Disney raising prices? Pretty much because they can. I think there is a lot of over-thinking going on here. Disney knows that people will continue paying. They aren't raising costs so much that people will say they aren't going. Disney knows what the limits are. So, why are so many of us complaining? Because we're paying more for a lesser experience.
I've gotten those surveys....sometimes two after a visit. Yet, I've never gotten one concerning ticket costs. Could be because I've been an AP holder for at least 10 yrs now...I obviously don't want a change to what I have. Disney seldom gives you something more for your money..they tend to increase your cost while taking something away and then 'giving' you something else, saying that feedback has indicated that this is what guests want.

And US/IoA? I have to tell you. My dd just visited the HP studios over in the UK last week. The photos she took had me in shock. I couldn't believe how alike those studios were to HP at US/IoA!!!! It was amazing. I have photos of her in Orlando, that look almost identical to the ones she has over in the UK!! US/IoA did an incredible job...I said that after visiting for the third time, and now, after seeing the photos from the UK? Believe it to be downright uncanny! If Disney did something like this, it would be worth the price increases. We shall see what they do going forward, with their planned improvements.

This! Thank you Goofy4tink! It's refreshing to hear a moderator speak plainly what a lot of people apparently feel at their WDW experience now.

It seems if you say something like this (&not a moderator) the same people jump all over you about YOUR thoughts, feelings, and experiences. It gets discouraging to say the least. All of us have views; however, by the number of these type threads there Must be a problem. Disney wake up. I was accused of being sad over these changes, and was jumped on for still going to Disney? What? Someone who loves Disney and is upset over the changes they see repeatedly can't still go to Disney. You are right, this thread is getting hysterical and ridiculous. I actually LOL at the response of my thoughts; it was so stupid and argumentative.

So again, thank you for airing your thoughts. Let's see how many jump on you!

 

[rajak73]

This! Thank you Goofy4tink! It's refreshing to hear a moderator speak plainly what a lot of people apparently feel at their WDW experience now.

It seems if you say something like this (&not a moderator) the same people jump all over you about YOUR thoughts, feelings, and experiences. It gets discouraging to say the least. All of us have views; however, by the number of these type threads there Must be a problem. Disney wake up. I was accused of being sad over these changes, and was jumped on for still going to Disney? What? Someone who loves Disney and is upset over the changes they see repeatedly can't still go to Disney. You are right, this thread is getting hysterical and ridiculous. I actually LOL at the response of my thoughts; it was so stupid and argumentative.

So again, thank you for airing your thoughts. Let's see how many jump on you!

Yes but if you don't agree with not going because of the price increase.....you're wrong and someone's going to tell you so!

 

[rajak73]

You are right, this thread is getting hysterical and ridiculous. .

What I really find funny is the US/IOA posters coming over telling you can now go to US/IOA. Okay, I've been there, what do you do after 3 days? You can only drink so many $8-8oz Margaritas. Ride Cat in the Hat and check for paint missing?

 

[Darcy03231]

What I really find funny is the US/IOA posters coming over telling you can now go to US/IOA. Okay, I've been there, what do you do after 3 days? You can only drink so many $8-8oz Margaritas. Ride Cat in the Hat and check for paint missing?

We did just that in August. We were in the Orlando area for 10 days. I won't say that US/IOA are parks that take 10 days to see (although I've spent 7 days there, in one of their on-site hotels, and wasn't bored at the end of my trip). We did US/IOA (bought annual passes) and SeaWorld (also bought annual passes - they were buy 1 get one free at the time) and did those as our main parks. We also ventured out and did some other things like Titanic, Ripley's Believe it or Not, etc. We spent less than we would have had we spent 10 days at WDW and had a blast. Sure some of the things were repeats from previous trips, but others were new attractions for us. For our family we felt that we got a great value for the money we spent. I would say, including meals (including a couple of dinner shows), souvenirs, airfare, rental villa, on-site hotel for a couple of nights for the express pass privileges (and I highly recommend Portofino Bay to anyone that's going in the future), car, etc. we spent about $6k (there were 6 of us). That's money that WDW would have gotten in prior years (and probably more given that we would have stayed on-site) that they didn't get this year.