Prices just hit my threshold :-(

[Roxyfire]

Seeing as character meals are in all the WDW ads.....

Sure when you watch regular tv I cut the cable ages ago and only do Netflix/Amazon Prime. But like I said before, I'm not a huge Disney fan, which is probably the minority around here for sure.

 

[momof2n2]

THIS is what I was getting at with my experiences with reactions to all the preplanning for a trip to Disney!!! You nailed it. I hear this a lot from people who have returned. I hope someone is listening!

I can't believe I've read all these posts for 41 pages! My head is swimming! It all boils down to this for me: The OP had a valid experience and post. It is their opinion!!!! This is a discussion board,so all posts should be valid and not jumped on when someone doesn't agree with you. I enjoy reading ALL the opinions and experiences good or bad of the posters. Please people, let's not endlessly jump on others who post something you don't agree with. off my soapbox and on to watch Thursday nite Football

Enjoy the game.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

I have tried to use words like 'probably' or 'IMHO' when referring to what I believe these revenues will be used for- whereas your statement was definitive. .... Gate admissions that occurred a few days ago are going to be used for- then our dialogue is over on this subject.

IMHO - it seems hypocritical to call someone out for being too "definitive" in their posts....only to later on in same paragraph make an extremely definitive statement like "this dialogue is over."

Pot, meet kettle.

And again, this is not an insult either. Just because someone disagrees with your post does not mean they are insulting you.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

This thread is hilarious.

What does it matter to anyone if some of us feel the current price point vs. our own perceived value out of the trip makes it no longer worthwhile? I would think you would be thrilled to have a few less people, not try to argue about why we are wrong, entitled, lazy, living by a shoestring budget Disney haters. The value you place on a Disney vacation is different for every individual, why is that so hard? Someone who has been a dozen times, seen all the shows, tried all the food, gone on all the rides, and whose kids have outgrown the magic are not going to place the same value on it as a family with a 3 and 5 year old that have never been. No big deal.

I'm not mad at Disney for raising prices. That's just what companies do when there is high demand. Personally, I was already pretty turned off by how crowded our last visit was (at a "low" crowd time).

 

[chelynnah]

I am pointing out that they don't have to raise ticket prices to keep big spenders out of lines. They have the infrastructure already to keep big spenders out of lines, yet they choose not to. Interesting.

But they are, sort of. On-site guests get ADR and FP+ earlier than local AP holders and other off-site guests, not just even 60 day advance, but up to 70 days depending on length of stay and park tickets etc.

I'm setting my alarm tonight for 4:55am (I'm in the UK so that's midnight Eastern) to book my FP+ for 30 days from now, and will probably be doing so off and on over the next two weeks. I had no chance at a BOG ADR at my 90 day booking window. I managed to get a lunch by calling in, and yesterday got a dinner when someone here said they were letting one go.

I'm not killing myself to do the pre-planning. If we get FP great, if not we'll figure it out. This will be our 3rd trip since 2004. We would love to stay onsite, but would rather have that extra money for spending. We're renting a 3 bedroom townhouse for the two of us for cheaper than a nice off-site hotel with only a tiny fridge and microwave. More space, driveway in front, 15 minutes from the parks. How can I justify another 2-3 grand for 2 weeks in an onsite hotel. I'm envious of those who do. DH and I were just talking about in 5 years' time maybe doing 3 nights onsite for the 'bubble' experience and the rest off. But for us, for now, this is a dream trip we've been planning for 3 years so we can both experience the Christmas magic. we're not doing it on the cheap, but we feel offsite for now is better value. They'll still get our money on souvenirs etc.

But back to the original point, the onsite and DVC who are already paying more ARE getting the perks of getting through the lines quicker due to their longer pre-booking window.

On an aside, some are referencing tracking spending through MyMagic+. Offsite guests and locals don't have their spending linked to their magic bands so they're only able to truly track onsite guest spend. They can extrapolate from that, but it's not as exact as people are making out. I'll buy a magic band, but they still won't be able to track my personal spend or know if I'm a regular or a 'whale".

Another aside, I have only once before in all my years (pre-DH) of going to Disney ever done table service, and that was because we met up with a friend who was staying on-site who had a meal plan and wanted to do Tony's. Other than that QS snacking and enjoying off-site restaurants. We're still spending the money, but not bothered about waiting for a table or pre booking ADRs. I want more flexibility than that.

Sorry, probably got way off topic, but jus addressing a few items (and my related thoughts on reading them) that have come up over the last few pages I've read

 

[wisblue]

According to several Orlando Sentinel articles I found, park attendance for all of WDW was 33.7 million in 1990 and then started to drop. By 1994, "Annual attendance at Walt Disney World has dropped by nearly 5 million since 1990, according to figures obtained by The Orlando Sentinel."

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/19...-disney-officials-specific-attendance-figures

18 million of those numbers being MK isn't hard to believe.

I've seen it in multiple places, but the one I can think of off the top of my head is HydroGuy's post here on WDW Info. @HydroGuy is a very informative, well respected poster on the Disneyland forum who wrote this blog for the DIS earlier this year. It is consistent with what I've read elsewhere, so I have no reason to doubt its authenticity. I've tagged him so that he can provide any more source information you may require.

I don't think it was 18 million either. This is a link to some numbers I had pulled years ago, when I was more involved with this sort of discussion. Only goes through 2005, because that's when I stopped caring. I sourced all my numbers. Put it on GoogleDocs when it came up in WDWMagic discussion.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t2lLi0gOU4gOb3HDpLv5bZPTWY_JfBC3sbgkEvAunR0/edit

Thanks for the responses.

These items show why I am skeptical about the 18 million number.

The Orlando Sentinel article from 1994 says that the overall attendance at the 3 WDW parks peaked at 33.7 million visitors in 1990 and then dropped to 28.9 million in 1994. The article describes a number of factors that affected attendance at WDW and in Central Florida in general during those years.

If we accept that peak number of 33.7 million, if the attendance at MK was 18 million, that would leave just 15.7 million for Epcot and MGM combined. MK accounting for over half of the total resort attendance is not typical for the other early years after MGM opened.

The 18 million figure for 1991 does appear in the chart included in the HydroGuy blog. That chart also shows the attendance that year for Epcot at about 14.5 million and for MGM at about 7 million. That would produce a total attendance of 39.2 million, which is obviously substantially higher than the peak attendance of 33.7 million reported by the Orlando Sentinel.

That same chart shows the attendance for the 3 parks for 1992 at 11.5 million/10 million/8 million respectively for a total of 29.5 million, which falls squarely within the Orlando Sentinel’s reported peak of 33.7 million in 1990 and drop to 28.9 by 1994. From those numbers, MK accounted for about 39% of the total 3 park attendance.

Data from before 1991 doesn’t indicate attendance at MK anywhere near 18 million either, so either the 18 million is an error, or an aberrational spike in attendance. Either way, a statement that attendance at the MK has just recently reached the totals from the early 90’s is pretty questionable.

The data provided by Hopemax also does not indicate attendance of 18 million at the MK any time in the early 90's.

 

[flicx]

Either way, a statement that attendance at the MK has just recently reached the totals from the early 90’s is pretty questionable.

That number is no more questionable than the recent estimates given for current attendance. They are all estimates!

 

[Angel Ariel]

The 18 million figure for 1991 does appear in the chart included in the HydroGuy blog. That chart also shows the attendance that year for Epcot at about 14.5 million and for MGM at about 7 million. That would produce a total attendance of 39.2 million, which is obviously substantially higher than the peak attendance of 33.7 million reported by the Orlando Sentinel.

As I said, if you'd like to question @HydroGuy about his sources, you're free to do just that. I have seen the 18 million number from sources other than HydroGuy's article as well, and obviously he got them from somewhere himself. The 18 million was cited by another member in this thread with a different source earlier today as well. It's quite possible that the numbers in HydroGuy's chart are estimates of each entrance in each gate, not accounting for park hopping as they do now when they only count the first entry a ticket makes...no way to know unless you ask HydroGuy what his sources were. I can't answer that for you.

None of the data in Hopemax's documents show individual park attendance for 1991, which is the number I previously referenced. The first individual park data is for 1992, and that number - appx 11 million - matches the appx number in HydroGuy's document for 1992 as well.

An "aberrational spike in attendance" is also not out of the question. 1991 was Disney World's 20th anniversary. It's more than possible that would contribute to a spike in attendance, especially as they advertised it being a "Year of Surprises", which lasted 15 months. A new daytime parade premiered, SpectroMagic premiered, they advertised "20 new reasons to visit WDW", new offerings in Epcot and MGM, etc...sounds like an anniversary celebration more similar to DLR's current 60th celebration than more recent anniversaries at WDW have been celebrated. (And I'm willing to bet DLR's attendance numbers will spike during the 60th as well, given what I'm reading on the DLR forums).

If one does work with the 18 million number, saying it's an aberrational spike in attendance doesn't change that that number would have been record attendance until 2013, which is all that was said.

 

[SmithSmith]

Just finished getting caught up on this thread. This got crazy long!

I intended to relate all the reasons why I thought there'd be a spike in attendance in 1991 (assuming those numbers are correct) but AA beat me to it. Thanks AA, for relating your thoughts.

I agree with Wis, I find the 1991 numbers highly questionable, always have.

Thank you to Hopemax for your compiled data as well. Those numbers are very illuminating... and far more believable.

The only reason I brought this up initially was to add my 2 cents to an oft-expressed remark. I feel that even if those numbers are correct, I find it a bit misleading to say current attendance is just now getting to '90's levels. Of that decade, only 2 years compare to today's number and they were both during significant milestones, the 20th & 25th anniversaries respectively. I wouldn't feel comfortable considering those celebratory years representative of typical attendance levels.

 

[wisblue]

If you want to believe the numbers from that chart, then the "Year of Surprises" that began October 1, 1991 was a phenomenal flop. They show that total attendance at the WDW parks went from 39.5 million in 1991 to 29.5 million in 1992, when most of the surprises took place, a drop of about 25 percent.

I'm not about to try to track down all of these sources and get into a debate about which estimates are correct and which aren't. I'm just pointing out that there are some inconsistencies in the numbers that have been reported, and those numbers for 1991 stick out like a sore thumb.

Anyone is free to chime in with their sources, but I suspect that the 18 million number may be cited in a number of places but is ultimately coming from the same source.

 

[Bluegrrl]

Not to add another log to the fire here, but.......my husband brought up this point as I was annoying him with my complaining:

Do you think Disney is doing this as a elimination method to get rid of AP'ers so that when Star Wars land actually arrives they can keep crowds down and basically print their own money as Star Wars looney fans just empty their life savings to visit? (Holy run on sentence Batman!) Cause if you think HP at Universal was a license to print money, then you ain't seen nothing yet with Star Wars fanatics! Look at how MGM crowds up with SWW. Then quadruple that amount of people. Then quad again - and keep on doing that. HP is classic, but Star Wars is almost eternal. Now Disney has something to really go up against HP, not just dumb Avatar. Maybe that's why they are doing this, to gently frog in pot boil us AP'ers up with rates?

Still not saying it's right. Iger can burn as far as I'm concerned. But it is a possibility. And maybe Disneyland is a little to blame? (Hey, I love you DL guys! Really!). But their park can get really crowded, so maybe the Devi--err, Iger decided to raise prices in the US to be "fair" to each park? The other countries aren't having issues like this, are they?

I don't know any numbers at all, this is just an X-Files conspiracy theory stuff.

 

[hopemax]

An "aberrational spike in attendance" is also not out of the question. 1991 was Disney World's 20th anniversary. It's more than possible that would contribute to a spike in attendance, especially as they advertised it being a "Year of Surprises", which lasted 15 months.

I think this may be the source of the confusion. I think someone along the line confused "during the 20th anniversary there were 18 million visitors" as that's what the attendance was for 1991. But no, the 18 million would represent attendance for the entire 15 month period. 18 million over 15 months would be 1.2 per month, multiply that by 12 and you'd get 14.4 million for closer to a possible real figure for 1991. Do the same for their 14.5 Epcot number and 7 million for MGM and you'd get 11.6 million, 5.6 million for a total of 31.6 million. Those sound a lot more in range to me, but the actual numbers would depend on how many people actually ended up in 1991 vs 1992.

EDIT: Forgot, that it started in 1991, but 1992 would have been the year that "benefited" from the celebration. It makes no sense that people would have jammed 1991, just before the celebration. Oct-Dec were probably higher than usual, but Jan-Sept, might have been slightly down. Anyway, I think there were probably 18 million visitors to the MK during 15 months, but not that they visited in 1991.

 

[kittyab]

I think with the increase prices they should offer something more or bring a few things back. Like some benches! Hard to find a spot to sit in the parks lol! (Oh thats right if I am sitting I can't spend money in the over priced gift shops). I am waiting for the no more outside food & drink allowed.

 

[SmithSmith]

I think this may be the source of the confusion. I think someone along the line confused "during the 20th anniversary there were 18 million visitors" as that's what the attendance was for 1991. But no, the 18 million would represent attendance for the entire 15 month period. 18 million over 15 months would be 1.2 per month, multiply that by 12 and you'd get 14.4 million for closer to a possible real figure for 1991. Do the same for their 14.5 Epcot number and 7 million for MGM and you'd get 11.6 million, 5.6 million for a total of 31.6 million. Those sound a lot more in range to me, but the actual numbers would depend on how many people actually ended up in 1991 vs 1992.

EDIT: Forgot, that it started in 1991, but 1992 would have been the year that "benefited" from the celebration. It makes no sense that people would have jammed 1991, just before the celebration. Oct-Dec were probably higher than usual, but Jan-Sept, might have been slightly down. Anyway, I think there were probably 18 million visitors to the MK during 15 months, but not that they visited in 1991.

That's an awesome assessment! That 18 million number has always confused me, and thanks to you I finally have a satisfying answer.

Thank you!

 

[Angel Ariel]

If you want to believe the numbers from that chart, then the "Year of Surprises" that began October 1, 1991 was a phenomenal flop. They show that total attendance at the WDW parks went from 39.5 million in 1991 to 29.5 million in 1992, when most of the surprises took place, a drop of about 25 percent.

There were other world issues at the time that, from articles from that time I read earlier today, were essentially the cause of the downturn in attendance, much as what happened after 9/11. I don't think it had anything do with the anniversary.

I'm not about to try to track down all of these sources and get into a debate about which estimates are correct and which aren't. I'm just pointing out that there are some inconsistencies in the numbers that have been reported, and those numbers for 1991 stick out like a sore thumb.

You actually asked for my source. I gave it. If you have further things to discuss regarding that source, it would be more appropriate to do so with the author, seeing as how he is easily contactable here. I am not disagreeing that there are inconsistencies. I was asked for my source, I provided it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think this may be the source of the confusion. I think someone along the line confused "during the 20th anniversary there were 18 million visitors" as that's what the attendance was for 1991. But no, the 18 million would represent attendance for the entire 15 month period. 18 million over 15 months would be 1.2 per month, multiply that by 12 and you'd get 14.4 million for closer to a possible real figure for 1991. Do the same for their 14.5 Epcot number and 7 million for MGM and you'd get 11.6 million, 5.6 million for a total of 31.6 million. Those sound a lot more in range to me, but the actual numbers would depend on how many people actually ended up in 1991 vs 1992.

EDIT: Forgot, that it started in 1991, but 1992 would have been the year that "benefited" from the celebration. It makes no sense that people would have jammed 1991, just before the celebration. Oct-Dec were probably higher than usual, but Jan-Sept, might have been slightly down. Anyway, I think there were probably 18 million visitors to the MK during 15 months, but not that they visited in 1991.

And that is certainly very possible. I haven't seen the specific quote of "during the 20th anniversary there were 18 million visitors), but it's definitely possible that essentially a game of telephone happened.

 

[wisblue]

There were other world issues at the time that, from articles from that time I read earlier today, were essentially the cause of the downturn in attendance, much as what happened after 9/11. I don't think it had anything do with the anniversary.



You actually asked for my source. I gave it. If you have further things to discuss regarding that source, it would be more appropriate to do so with the author, seeing as how he is easily contactable here. I am not disagreeing that there are inconsistencies. I was asked for my source, I provided it.

Yes, thank you for providing the source. I'm not asking or expecting you to explain the source or defend it.

I know that the first Gulf War which began in August of 1990 had a negative impact on tourism, as reported in that Orlando Sentinel article. We actually travelled to WDW in late February 1991, just as Operarion Desert Strom was ending. The timing of that war, and its reported impact on travel (especially international travel) has always made it counterintuitive to me that WDW would have had record attendance in 1991.

 

[Clockwork]

Disney owes you the ability to use your points for the same value that you could in 2001. They are giving you that. There was nothing about joining DVC that required Disney to give you anything else.

Until you purchase your own points I really wouldn't say anything. Right now youare still on your father in laws dime.

 

[Clockwork]

And what would be more constructive, offering a bunch of "oh dear I am so sorry that you are upset, those evil corporate types are just the worst" statements? Thats a bunch of BS. The most constructive comments on this thread are the ones that point our you basically have two options, stop going and vote with your wallet, or keep going and again vote with your wallet.

But that's the thing you don't vote with your wallet you stay in your father in laws DVC room and maybe purchase tickets. How you can you comment on anyone else's comments when you haven't been in their shoes? After you've been a DVC member and a pass holder then your statements may hold some validity, until then they hold about as much as a bucket with a hole in the bottom.

 

[Planogirl]

Not to add another log to the fire here, but.......my husband brought up this point as I was annoying him with my complaining:

Do you think Disney is doing this as a elimination method to get rid of AP'ers so that when Star Wars land actually arrives they can keep crowds down and basically print their own money as Star Wars looney fans just empty their life savings to visit? (Holy run on sentence Batman!) Cause if you think HP at Universal was a license to print money, then you ain't seen nothing yet with Star Wars fanatics! Look at how MGM crowds up with SWW. Then quadruple that amount of people. Then quad again - and keep on doing that. HP is classic, but Star Wars is almost eternal. Now Disney has something to really go up against HP, not just dumb Avatar. Maybe that's why they are doing this, to gently frog in pot boil us AP'ers up with rates?

Still not saying it's right. Iger can burn as far as I'm concerned. But it is a possibility. And maybe Disneyland is a little to blame? (Hey, I love you DL guys! Really!). But their park can get really crowded, so maybe the Devi--err, Iger decided to raise prices in the US to be "fair" to each park? The other countries aren't having issues like this, are they?

I don't know any numbers at all, this is just an X-Files conspiracy theory stuff.

I suspect that the goal is not to totally get rid of AP'ers but to tone them down? Maybe limit them more?

It's interesting to think about for sure. I agree that Star Wars fanatics will be all over everything and that's true for a while even if the movies are bad. I bet that even AP'ers will be excited about the Star Wars stuff though and I suspect that Disney wants ALL the money from everyone.