Prices just hit my threshold :-(

[Planogirl]

Just like the airlines.
I'm old enough to remember flying the friendly skies - not just the cattle herding flying of today.

I'll be one of the ones who remembers olden days Disney.

Me too! I remember having space and getting meals and also headsets to listen to music and sometimes watch movies. Things are so different now but yet we all still fly. Just like most of us will likely keep going to WDW. Disney is sly.

 

[hopemax]

Regent Seven Seas Cruises is arguably the most luxurious cruise line in the world. That being said, I don't think it makes sailing the Queen Mary any less luxurious.

It's not about the value of a line, it's what you experience on it.

Now this is interesting...I had never heard of them but looking at their website, they have a page that spells out their philosophy versus the other cruise lines, and they have some charts to break down how even though their price looks high, what they provide is actual more similar to other cruise lines, and links to 4 different itineraries. http://www.rssc.com/experience/value-comparison/

But yet WDW wants to appeal to the luxury market by doing things like: here's your ticket price, now there's an upcharge for park hopping, there's an upcharge for your dessert party, an upcharge for your holiday events and here's an even more upcharge for a special dessert party during your upcharged holiday event. AND we know they are talking about upcharging the day of the week you want to visit and season.

The "here's your price. It's high, but look at all you get" reminds me a heck of a lot more like 80s Disney than current Disney. When hopping and non-expiration were included, when holiday things like parades were included in the price of your ticket and not sold separately. And based on the existence of this cruise line, I guess it still a business choice that works for people who like luxury.

 

[2Pirates2Princesses]

It's like the economics of a beer at a football game. They know that they can basically charge whatever they want, because they have a captive and willing audience. Same with Disney. They will keep pushing the envelope. However, I fear that they are going to lose a generation of mid America that they used to have as their captive audience. This mid America will one day be part of the future 10% that they so desire. But without that "magic" early, maybe they don't even care about Disney later in life. They wont want to pay the $5000 for a dessert party and studio view. Then Disney has a problem. Like the NFL has an attendance problem today, and slashing prices is a hard strategy to undertake.

This is a great point and I am seeing this within my own area among quite a few young families. When my 13 year old twins were in their early elementary school years it seemed like everyone was going to Disney - the majority of my twins' classmates had been at least once and we knew quite a few families that visited annually. Now with my DD8 and DS6 it is a different story. When talking with other parents over the course of the past year (so this would be kindergarten and second grade families at the time) during birthday parties, school events, and activities quite a few parents said they have no interest in taking their kids to Disney World and spending that kind of money on a vacation and are amazed that our family has been twice; and these are families that would be 'categorized' as middle class suburban families that do go on vacations but have no desire to have Disney World on their radar in spite of this being the age where kids are really into Disney Channel, princesses, Frozen, etc.

 

[Happy_2_B]

Here you go, for starters.....

Nothing in that post has anything to do with the recent increases in gate admissions- or where that money is going to be allocated- as they just occurred and unless you have a crystal ball of some sort neither you, or the poster you referred to, can possibly know what they are- or are not- going to be used for. Those 'financials' are what I am interested in- the 'financials' that do not yet exist. Some other random poster backing your statement isn't impressive- there is no way he can know, either- unless he is a super psychic world class economist that can see into the future somehow. No one can know since they just happened- that's the point. I have tried to use words like 'probably' or 'IMHO' when referring to what I believe these revenues will be used for- whereas your statement was definitive. The rest of the financial information contained in that post you referred to is common knowledge among anyone that cares. To presuppose that my guesses are incorrect without knowing yourself- and making a bold statement that you somehow know otherwise- won't pass muster. Unless you can show me a financial statement that indicates what the increases in gate admissions that occurred a few days ago are going to be used for- then our dialogue is over on this subject.

 

[kakiegirl]

I really can't believe how callous people can be. Why not give people a little sympathy or just not reply. My family is one of those who is about to be priced out of being able to go and especially get annual passes. We aren't quiet there yet but if it keeps going like it is we will be there soon. We live in an area of the country that has not recovered from the recession yet, neither of us has had a raise in the over 3 years. My husband has lost all of his benefits at work and I don't get any so we have to pay health insurance out of pocket. We live in a rural area and just going out and finding a better job is not an option. That doesn't mean we don't work hard it is just the way it is. We do sacrifice to go to Disney because it is a priority to us. I'm not mad at Disney, they are a company that has every right to charge what they want to. I'm not saying I'm not going to go anymore because as long as it is possible I will. I do think a company should appreciate their most loyal repeat customers and I don't feel like they are doing that, but that is just my opinion. But it does make me sad to think it is coming to the point where my family might not be able to go to their favorite place every year. If you are so successful that you can afford to go without even blinking an eye at the prices good for you, I don't resent you. But you would think that a board of people that love Disney like we all do would be able to have a little sympathy for those people Disney has priced out. Instead you get comments to work harder or just go somewhere else. Some people should take Thumper's advice "If you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all".

 

[Angel Ariel]

So why are your high earners in line? Again, why are you making them wait? They could easily let them all go to the front. Why don't they do this?

They do. It's the VIP tour. If we are talking high spending guests, that's precisely how high spending guests avoid lines.

 

[GreatLakes]

They could do it with a flip of a switch with MDE. If you have a reservation at a Deluxe, swipe your band, unlimited FP. It would be crazy simple for them to implement, tomorrow if they wanted to. But that is not the only demographic they want, or every resort would be Deluxe, and this would have already been put in place. They need the full gamet of the economic spectrum. They are testing the balance of the lower end right now. I don't like the strategy.

They are still pretty early in the game as far as using the data collected in MyMagic+ for guest monetization. I do think you'll eventually see added perks for higher profit guests. Not front of the line for every ride or anything but the ability to purchase additional FastPasses or to purchase otherwise unavailable FastPasses as an example.

I also think there will be a real-time component added to allow them to use the combination of Magic Bands and MDE to send ad hoc experiences to guests as a way to better manage traffic and get the guests from doing something that isn't generating money (standing in a line) to something that is (pay to play experiences, meals, and shopping opportunities).

That doesn't really mean they don't care about the lower profit guests, provided they make at least a minimum threshold on them, but they do want to make is so those guests aren't interfering with the more profitable guests. If the data shows AP holders are less profitable then package buying guests adding blackout dates to the APs to move them out of the parks at busy times makes sense. It doesn't keep them from coming but moves them to different times or puts a cost on the front end to make up for what they lose on the back end. Will they lose some AP holders in the mix? Of course. That is a calculated cost of business though.

There are a lot of exciting things they can do with this data and infrastructure once they get a little further into the project life cycle.

 

[hopemax]

This is a great point and I am seeing this within my own area among quite a few young families. When my 13 year old twins were in their early elementary school years it seemed like everyone was going to Disney - the majority of my twins' classmates had been at least once and we knew quite a few families that visited annually. Now with my DD8 and DS6 it is a different story. When talking with other parents over the course of the past year (so this would be kindergarten and second grade families at the time) during birthday parties, school events, and activities quite a few parents said they have no interest in taking their kids to Disney World and spending that kind of money on a vacation and are amazed that our family has been twice; and these are families that would be 'categorized' as middle class suburban families that do go on vacations but have no desire to have Disney World on their radar in spite of this being the age where kids are really into Disney Channel, princesses, Frozen, etc.

And this is the kicker...what happens to WDW when it becomes "okay" not to do a Disney vacation? Peer pressure doesn't just end when you graduate high school. And a lot of first time trips get taken because "That's what good parents with the means to do so, do." It starts with pricing out people, but it ends with it just not being "the thing to do." And I highly doubt the well-healed will keep doing something when the "plebs" don't even think its worth it.

 

[ZellyB]

Now this is interesting...I had never heard of them but looking at their website, they have a page that spells out their philosophy versus the other cruise lines, and they have some charts to break down how even though their price looks high, what they provide is actual more similar to other cruise lines, and links to 4 different itineraries. http://www.rssc.com/experience/value-comparison/

But yet WDW wants to appeal to the luxury market by doing things like: here's your ticket price, now there's an upcharge for park hopping, there's an upcharge for your dessert party, an upcharge for your holiday events and here's an even more upcharge for a special dessert party during your upcharged holiday event. AND we know they are talking about upcharging the day of the week you want to visit and season.

The "here's your price. It's high, but look at all you get" reminds me a heck of a lot more like 80s Disney than current Disney. When hopping and non-expiration were included, when holiday things like parades were included in the price of your ticket and not sold separately. And based on the existence of this cruise line, I guess it still a business choice that works for people who like luxury.

I've never really looked at that cruise line before but that looks really good. With all the things they include and with a price that has fares that are 2-for-1, that does make them more affordable then on first glance.

 

[JimmyV]

Nothing in that post has anything to do with the recent increases in gate admissions- or where that money is going to be allocated- as they just occurred and unless you have a crystal ball of some sort neither you, or the poster you referred to, can possibly know what they are- or are not- going to be used for. Those 'financials' are what I am interested in- the 'financials' that do not yet exist. Some other random poster backing your statement isn't impressive- there is no way he can know, either- unless he is a super psychic world class economist that can see into the future somehow. No one can know since they just happened- that's the point. I have tried to use words like 'probably' or 'IMHO' when referring to what I believe these revenues will be used for- whereas your statement was definitive. The rest of the financial information contained in that post you referred to is common knowledge among anyone that cares. To presuppose that my guesses are incorrect without knowing yourself- and making a bold statement that you somehow know otherwise- won't pass muster. Unless you can show me a financial statement that indicates what the increases in gate admissions that occurred a few days ago are going to be used for- then our dialogue is over on this subject.

If you want to believe that Disney announced a major expansion before it had the money in place to pay for it, I can't stop you. And I can turn the mirror on your post. Where are the financial statements that show that the price increases will a) raise net revenue, and b) be used to pay for the expansions?

 

[boomgoesthemickey]

It's like the economics of a beer at a football game. They know that they can basically charge whatever they want, because they have a captive and willing audience. Same with Disney. They will keep pushing the envelope. However, I fear that they are going to lose a generation of mid America that they used to have as their captive audience. This mid America will one day be part of the future 10% that they so desire. But without that "magic" early, maybe they don't even care about Disney later in life. They wont want to pay the $5000 for a dessert party and studio view. Then Disney has a problem. Like the NFL has an attendance problem today, and slashing prices is a hard strategy to undertake.

The nfl may have an attendance problem but that's a small drop in the bucket considering the average value of every nfl team has gone up 38% since last year. Same thing with disney they may see a drop in room fill rates and park attendance in the coming years but with the releases of star wars 7,8,9 on the horizon which will make ungodly amounts of money not to mention the cash nuclear bomb that frozen 2 will be (to my dismay) I honestly think they do not care as much as they may have in the past.

 

[wisblue]

I hope disney doesn't just take that for granted. MK had similar numbers in the early nineties...they just surpassed the 1991 mk attendance level in the last couple years...maybe 2013? Their park was bursting at the seams then, attendance was booming....then it stopped. Not only stopped growing, but fell pretty far in 1992 and took 20 years (appx) to get back to the attendance levels they had. IIRC, Epcot still hasn't surpassed what its attendance was back then. It isn't as though they weren't building anything new in that era either.

The disney lovers, like us here, were the ones continuing to come when attendance dropped. I hope disney doesn't lose sight of that in the long-run.

I would like to know the source of the 18 million attendance figure for the MK in 1991 because it is inconsistent with some articles I have seen about WDW attendance in the early 90's.

 

[Slapshot1188]

What I have been struggling with the last few days is trying to understand why people feel compelled to join a thread started by someone who said they reached THEIR threshold and continue to argue with folks that feel the same way as the OP? Why not just go start a thread to say how happy you are with the raised rates?

Everyone is going to have their own personal thresholds. You aren't "wrong" for having a really high or non-existent one. Stop trying to tell/convince other folks that have met their threshold that they are wrong.

 

[hopemax]

I've never really looked at that cruise line before but that looks really good. With all the things they include and with a price that has fares that are 2-for-1, that does make them more affordable then on first glance.

I know right. And they don't list Disney, because I'm sure their clientele is people traveling without children. Different markets. EDIT: maybe not, LOL, reading TR, the noise level of children is a thing. But this board has plenty of empty nesters, or childless households. So just for laughs. Disney is offering 7-night cruises to Alaska. A Deluxe Oceanview Veranda stateroom ranges from $5423-6207 depending on where on the ship you want to be for 2 people on a cheap travel week, or $6851-$8097 on a more expensive week. That chart for the cruise line says $4999 per person. But for Disney you still need to add on airfare, shore excursions, alcohol and drinks (does Disney automatically include gratuities now? otherwise add them too). The Wonder stateroom size is 268, the chart says theirs is 356, and there are the other intangibles like guest to staff ratio. My first cruise was on one of RCCL's old ships, but my family has many more positive memories of that ship because it was so small and you really got to know the staff, vs the Megaships. Prefer the size of the staterooms on the new ships, but that was about it. At that price, it's not something you can do all the time, but my family (just me and DH) could certainly do it every 3-5 years, like many people do Disney.

The only thing that would give me pause, is that we have travel funds because we are pretty casual in our everyday life, and so I don't know if our personalities would "meld" with the people that take this sort of cruise. But perhaps research is in order.

LOL...I'm reading some trip reports on Cruise Critics...apparently, there are quite a few people commenting about maintenance of the ships, quality of the food, knowledge of the staff (apparently, sommeliers are not very forthcoming) and the quality of the included shore excursions vs recent Regent trips and comparing it to Crystal and Seabourn (apparently the new "it" line of the moment). I guess at least good for competition.

Also, LOL. I requested a brochure from Regent and I already have had a voice mail message from a travel representative who is available to answer any questions I might have! Really, it was like only a half hour. Oh and an email just came in too!

 

[momof2n2]

And this is the kicker...what happens to WDW when it becomes "okay" not to do a Disney vacation?

In my crowd it's already easy not to do it. And with more reports like this...

I just got off the phone with an old friend. We used to hang out all the time, but our kids are into different things now. She teethed on WDW, grew up with annual cheerleading trips, and took her own young family annually until about 8 years ago. She last went to WDW five years ago (Sep 2010). As her kids have gotten older they have preferred beaches and camping, but decided to join her sister and family with WDW. I emailed her to ask her how her trip went. She called me because "it's way too much for an email."

Now - my friend knows I've done lots of WDW. But she also knows I haven't been there since 2011 and am going next year. She doesn't do message boards and figured I didn't know all the ins and outs of current WDW vacationing. She more or less began with, "It is NOT like it used to be," and ended with, "They ruined Disney World."

"Had to run all over to meet FP times."
"Can't just stay in a land grabbing FPs and keeping busy in that area."
Kids constantly "Looking on the apps and we'd change directions depending on what had low wait times."
"Had to PICK which rides we wanted FP for and they are TIERED!!! You can't have TT and Soarin'!"

I don't have to tell you anymore.
She thought she was educating me (and her personal reports spot-on matched many of the posters here).

Her take home points were:
"It'd be fine if you had, like 8 days and didn't want anything but Disney."
And
"Oh, man. We won't go again til (now 3 year old) is, like, ten!"
Oh
"I hope they fix it. It's nothing like it used to be."

[For those who may ask - they stayed at CBR, had QS dining, did no ADRs, and never met a single princess as her kids didn't care. She has seven kids, ages 3 - 16, five boys, two girls.]

 

[WillAustin]

I would like to know the source of the 18 million attendance figure for the MK in 1991 because it is inconsistent with some articles I have seen about WDW attendance in the early 90's.

According to several Orlando Sentinel articles I found, park attendance for all of WDW was 33.7 million in 1990 and then started to drop. By 1994, "Annual attendance at Walt Disney World has dropped by nearly 5 million since 1990, according to figures obtained by The Orlando Sentinel."

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/19...-disney-officials-specific-attendance-figures

18 million of those numbers being MK isn't hard to believe.

 

[freediverdude]

I really can't believe how callous people can be. Why not give people a little sympathy or just not reply. My family is one of those who is about to be priced out of being able to go and especially get annual passes. We aren't quiet there yet but if it keeps going like it is we will be there soon. We live in an area of the country that has not recovered from the recession yet, neither of us has had a raise in the over 3 years. My husband has lost all of his benefits at work and I don't get any so we have to pay health insurance out of pocket. We live in a rural area and just going out and finding a better job is not an option. That doesn't mean we don't work hard it is just the way it is. We do sacrifice to go to Disney because it is a priority to us. I'm not mad at Disney, they are a company that has every right to charge what they want to. I'm not saying I'm not going to go anymore because as long as it is possible I will. I do think a company should appreciate their most loyal repeat customers and I don't feel like they are doing that, but that is just my opinion. But it does make me sad to think it is coming to the point where my family might not be able to go to their favorite place every year. If you are so successful that you can afford to go without even blinking an eye at the prices good for you, I don't resent you. But you would think that a board of people that love Disney like we all do would be able to have a little sympathy for those people Disney has priced out. Instead you get comments to work harder or just go somewhere else. Some people should take Thumper's advice "If you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all".

I'm so sorry it's gotten to that point for you. I hope you can at least spend a day at MK every year somehow, and have a few days in Orlando somewhere, even if the Disney packages are too expensive.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I would like to know the source of the 18 million attendance figure for the MK in 1991 because it is inconsistent with some articles I have seen about WDW attendance in the early 90's.

I've seen it in multiple places, but the one I can think of off the top of my head is HydroGuy's post here on WDW Info. @HydroGuy is a very informative, well respected poster on the Disneyland forum who wrote this blog for the DIS earlier this year. It is consistent with what I've read elsewhere, so I have no reason to doubt its authenticity. I've tagged him so that he can provide any more source information you may require.

 

[hopemax]

I would like to know the source of the 18 million attendance figure for the MK in 1991 because it is inconsistent with some articles I have seen about WDW attendance in the early 90's.

I don't think it was 18 million either. This is a link to some numbers I had pulled years ago, when I was more involved with this sort of discussion. Only goes through 2005, because that's when I stopped caring. I sourced all my numbers. Put it on GoogleDocs when it came up in WDWMagic discussion.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t2lLi0gOU4gOb3HDpLv5bZPTWY_JfBC3sbgkEvAunR0/edit

 

[disneyseniors]

In my crowd it's already easy not to do it. And with more reports like this...

I just got off the phone with an old friend. We used to hang out all the time, but our kids are into different things now. She teethed on WDW, grew up with annual cheerleading trips, and took her own young family annually until about 8 years ago. She last went to WDW five years ago (Sep 2010). As her kids have gotten older they have preferred beaches and camping, but decided to join her sister and family with WDW. I emailed her to ask her how her trip went. She called me because "it's way too much for an email."

Now - my friend knows I've done lots of WDW. But she also knows I haven't been there since 2011 and am going next year. She doesn't do message boards and figured I didn't know all the ins and outs of current WDW vacationing. She more or less began with, "It is NOT like it used to be," and ended with, "They ruined Disney World."

"Had to run all over to meet FP times."
"Can't just stay in a land grabbing FPs and keeping busy in that area."
Kids constantly "Looking on the apps and we'd change directions depending on what had low wait times."
"Had to PICK which rides we wanted FP for and they are TIERED!!! You can't have TT and Soarin'!"

I don't have to tell you anymore.
She thought she was educating me (and her personal reports spot-on matched many of the posters here).

Her take home points were:
"It'd be fine if you had, like 8 days and didn't want anything but Disney."
And
"Oh, man. We won't go again til (now 3 year old) is, like, ten!"
Oh
"I hope they fix it. It's nothing like it used to be."

[For those who may ask - they stayed at CBR, had QS dining, did no ADRs, and never met a single princess as her kids didn't care. She has seven kids, ages 3 - 16, five boys, two girls.]

THIS is what I was getting at with my experiences with reactions to all the preplanning for a trip to Disney!!! You nailed it. I hear this a lot from people who have returned. I hope someone is listening!

I can't believe I've read all these posts for 41 pages! My head is swimming! It all boils down to this for me: The OP had a valid experience and post. It is their opinion!!!! This is a discussion board,so all posts should be valid and not jumped on when someone doesn't agree with you. I enjoy reading ALL the opinions and experiences good or bad of the posters. Please people, let's not endlessly jump on others who post something you don't agree with. off my soapbox and on to watch Thursday nite Football