Price Increase Coming.....

[tjkraz]

A 5th Gate gives Disney more areas to disperse people.

Prior to the pandemic, facilities such as walkways, bathrooms, restaurants, bus stops, etc. we’re becoming insufferably crowded. Chapek has acknowledged on earnings calls that park overcrowding is the top complaint they receive.

Magic Kingdom draws 40-50% more guests than the other 3 parks. It's the model of what those locations COULD be. Animal Kingdom in particular still needs help. After 25 years it's still a half-day park. Over the last 25 years they've added Everest, Pandora and...not much else.

A 5th park would require $3-4 billion investment for infrastructure alone, before dropping a single attraction. That money is far better spent on expansions with the scope of Galaxy's Edge, Toy Story Land and Pandora.

As a paying customer, what solution do you prefer?

I want more to do in the existing locations. Don't send me to another far-flung corner of WDW property for something that's destined to be a half-day park for the next 20+ years. Continue to bulk up the existing destinations so that crowds are distributed better.

 

[TutuluvsDisney]

When will the 2042 "end of life" going to affect the price of those resorts affected by those dates?. Can they go down soon

 

[Jwaire]

In 1996, the last year Walt Disney World added a theme park, total attendance at all 4 theme parks was 35 million.

In 2019, the last year before the pandemic, WDW attendance had exploded to over 58 million.

Yeah, and in 1996 the suits who worked for Eisner didn't want Animal Kingdom built either. He talked about that in an interview with Charlie Rose. He sided with Imagineering and thought the concept of wild animals was exciting.

Eisner got tired of being told no with Port Disney, WestCOT and Disney's America. Animal Kingdom didn't make the most financial sense. In fact, the $1 billion dollars spent on it, along with the failure of Euro Disneyland was the two financial mistakes that caused DCA to be garbage and the other domestic parks to suffer for years.

Bob Chapek is not going to repeat that mistake.

As a paying customer, what solution do you prefer?

Do you want another DCA 1.0 or Walt Disney Studios Park (Paris)?

I want a Disney Sea-like park, but it's not going to happen. They need to fix the problems at Hollywood Studios, EPCOT and Animal Kingdom before they build another park. I also wouldn't want any new park built under someone like Bob Chapek. He's not a creative.

Magic Kingdom draws 40-50% more guests than the other 3 parks. It's the model of what those locations COULD be. Animal Kingdom in particular still needs help. After 25 years it's still a half-day park. Over the last 25 years they've added Everest, Pandora and...not much else.

A 5th park would require $3-4 billion investment for infrastructure alone, before dropping a single attraction. That money is far better spent on expansions with the scope of Galaxy's Edge, Toy Story Land and Pandora.

I want more to do in the existing locations. Don't send me to another far-flung corner of WDW property for something that's destined to be a half-day park for the next 20+ years. Continue to bulk up the existing destinations so that crowds are distributed better.

Exactly.

They can't afford it anyway. They're still losing money at Disneyland Paris, Hong Kong Disneyland and Shanghai Disneyland every single day. Good grief, Shanghai is closed again.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Would the water parks count as additional parks? Just curious

 

[fumanchu2488]

As a paying customer, what solution do you prefer?

I would prefer expanding existing parks with more attractions in each. This would also increase the value of Genie+ at places like EPCOT and Animal Kingdom. Update DinoLand. Finish Moana. Finish Tron. Add the projects behind Big Thunder with Encanto and Villains (probably removing Tom Sawyer Island). If they could add 4 or 5 attractions over the next 5 years that would be a huge win in my book.

Look at the stuff they will have completed in the 5 years between June 2018 and June 2023:

Tron
Guardians
Remy
Mickey and Minnie
Rise of the Resistance
Millenium Falcon

That includes a 2-year (or more) pandemic and doesn't include Galactic Starcruiser (which I do not like) or all the work they did at DL.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[kilik64]

I would prefer expanding existing parks with more attractions in each. This would also increase the value of Genie+ at places like EPCOT and Animal Kingdom. Update DinoLand. Finish Moana. Finish Tron. Add the projects behind Big Thunder with Encanto and Villains (probably removing Tom Sawyer Island). If they could add 4 or 5 attractions over the next 5 years that would be a huge win in my book.

Look at the stuff they will have completed in the 5 years between June 2018 and June 2023:

Tron
Guardians
Remy
Mickey and Minnie
Rise of the Resistance
Millenium Falcon

That includes a 2-year (or more) pandemic and doesn't include Galactic Starcruiser (which I do not like) or all the work they did at DL.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Thats kinda cheating since Tron is the reason why that list is covering 5 years... (it not might actually be but good lord its a copy of a ride and its taken 5 years to build it...?)

 

[Jwaire]

I would prefer expanding existing parks with more attractions in each. This would also increase the value of Genie+ at places like EPCOT and Animal Kingdom. Update DinoLand. Finish Moana. Finish Tron. Add the projects behind Big Thunder with Encanto and Villains (probably removing Tom Sawyer Island). If they could add 4 or 5 attractions over the next 5 years that would be a huge win in my book.

Look at the stuff they will have completed in the 5 years between June 2018 and June 2023:

Tron
Guardians
Remy
Mickey and Minnie
Rise of the Resistance
Millenium Falcon

That includes a 2-year (or more) pandemic and doesn't include Galactic Starcruiser (which I do not like) or all the work they did at DL.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

I'm not sure that's a big accomplishment. Tron and Ratatouille were clones and Mickey & Minnie was done on the cheap.

Keep in mind, they built most of Walt Disney World's infrastructure including the waterways, roads, Magic Kingdom park including Cinderella Castle, the monorail system, The Contemporary and the Polynesian in 2 years.

 

[Brian Noble]

True, but they didn't have to do that while guests were crawling all over the place.

I suspect some of the issue on Tron's timeline was stretching out CapEX during a crisis, and moving some of it to later quarters and/or stretching out the Big Ticket Item opening dates so that (for example) Guardians and Tron got distinct attendance bumps. BGT sat on Iron Gwazi for something like a year before they opened it to avoid "wasting" the opening on a pandemic lull.

it's a shame that the WDW Railroad was a casualty of that though.

 

[fumanchu2488]

I'm not sure that's a big accomplishment. Tron and Ratatouille were clones and Mickey & Minnie was done on the cheap.

Keep in mind, they built most of Walt Disney World's infrastructure including the waterways, roads, Magic Kingdom park including Cinderella Castle, the monorail system, The Contemporary and the Polynesian in 2 years.

I didn't even include all of Toy Story Land (June 2018) or Pandora (2017). Also, not including Avengers Campus, DL Galaxy Edge or others.

I think we need to put things into perspective on why price increases are happening. Disney is clearly doing enough, often enough, to get people to come back. And that demand means they can increase price accordingly.

 

[DonMacGregor]

If you want to talk about a building spree, look no further than 1979 to 1983:

1979 BTMRR Magic Kingdom
1980 BTMRR Disneyland
1982 EPCOT
1983 New Fantasyland at Disneyland
1983 Tokyo Disneyland

Fantasyland was a full refurb and expansion and while built by OLC, Tomyo Disneyland still took hundreds of Imagineers and hundreds more CM’s who relocated to Japan to train for the first Disney park outside the states.

 

[RoseGold]

I didn't even include all of Toy Story Land (June 2018) or Pandora (2017). Also, not including Avengers Campus, DL Galaxy Edge or others.

I think we need to put things into perspective on why price increases are happening. Disney is clearly doing enough, often enough, to get people to come back. And that demand means they can increase price accordingly.

The price increases are because they can and because demand is there. Most people can't list all the construction.

They are doing enough to keep people coming, not necessarily coming back. I've planned quite a few one and done trips since Covid. They built the lightsabers and bought the parasols, sure. But they won't be back. The only one dumb enough to keep going back is me.

 

[CarolMN]

The only one dumb enough to keep going back is me.

And me.

 

[Nabas]

And me.

DVC is the primary reason we visit. Without it, we’d be taking our vacation dollars elsewhere.

DVC has become something of a summer cottage for us, except we visit 6 times a year.

 

[Sandisw]

And me.

Me too!

 

[SLThomas318]

And me.

Me too! (for now at least...)

We had a magical first trip (2018) and were instantly hooked. I just feel like this current version of Disney would be harder to fall in love with. Maybe not since you have nothing to compare it to?

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

DVC is the primary reason we visit. Without it, we’d be taking our vacation dollars elsewhere.

DVC has become something of a summer cottage for us, except we visit 6 times a year.

Exactly, re: Summer cottage! If airfare wasn't so sucky, we'd be back longer/more often/buying more points. We can go to DVC/WDW for what we'd pay for a week at the ocean, and I don't have to pack sheets and towels and do all the cooking and have lumpy mattresses.

 

[fumanchu2488]

Me too! (for now at least...)

Me too!

And me.

The only one dumb enough to keep going back is me.

Me too!

And this is my point. They have done enough to keep us coming back as well as the once every few years visitor. And the demand is high enough because of the work that they have done to keep prices high. There is no need to build another gate.

I think they will start seeing people visit less often. When we just added more points, I bought less than originally planned because I don't see us taking trips twice a year. For us, the price is too high and we would rather spend our second week of vacation doing something else. But I think that we are their perfect target audience. A family of 4 that will come for 5-7 nights per year and spend more money than they would coming two or three or four times per year. And that is fine.

 

[RoseGold]

And this is my point. They have done enough to keep us coming back as well as the once every few years visitor. And the demand is high enough because of the work that they have done to keep prices high. There is no need to build another gate.

I think they will start seeing people visit less often. When we just added more points, I bought less than originally planned because I don't see us taking trips twice a year. For us, the price is too high and we would rather spend our second week of vacation doing something else. But I think that is their perfect target audience. A family of 4 that will come for 5-7 nights per year and spend more money than they would coming two or three or four times per year. And that is fine.

Obviously they want big spender, one offs. It's literally what they said about that big spending family from Denver who had to wait in a line because of your unfavorable presence.

The question is how many families from Denver they have. Like all of you, I'm the crazy Disney person who plans everything Disney for everyone I know. Sure, they wanted to go after Covid, but now they're done. So, once our rich friends are done, and they squeeze us out with no APs and crazy prices and 7AM G+, they better hope they have enough families from Denver splashing money around. They did after Covid, will that last? This middle ground straddle -- renewing APs -- suggests they aren't too confident about that. And the Poly2 project, which seems like the opposite of courting the family from Denver instead.

 

[Brian Noble]

As an aside: Using DVC as a summer cottage/nice resort to visit/etc. is a perfectly fine thing to do. But if the parks genuinely don't matter, there are many more timeshares out there that are as nice as (or nicer than) the average DVC resort, and much less expensive to buy and to own. It's also relatively easy to sell DVC.

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

As an aside: Using DVC as a summer cottage/nice resort to visit/etc. is a perfectly fine thing to do. But if the parks genuinely don't matter, there are many more timeshares out there that are as nice as (or nicer than) the average DVC resort, and much less expensive to buy and to own. It's also relatively easy to sell DVC.

We still do the parks and renewed our APs. We're not burned out -- yet, LOL. When we bought in, we got the double first-year points, however they categorize it, and during Covid, airfare was ridiculously cheap. Couple that with remote learning and generous attendance policies for the kids, we were coming 2x a year, no problem. We also did Universal as a bookend.


Now, we've pretty much done the mainstays multiple times (haven't hit GoTG or Tron yet,) but after this round of December and July trips, we'll be skipping a year or two to re-up our points allotment. Got spoiled with those extra points and lower crowds! Back to reality.
Curious though, I've read your other posts about liking timeshare accommodations on other threads. Which/where do you like and recommend? We definitely prefer the home-away-from-home setup with separate bedrooms and kitchen/laundry facilities. My husband's idea of roughing it is basic cable, LOL, so we're definitely spoiled. I'm interested in Great Lakes, Grand Canyon, Sedona, not usually cities, per se, but we would like to be near water or have awesome amenities on site if landlocked.