Prepping to get kid into Gifted & Talented school/class

[IDoDis]

Sorry, but I almost fell out of my chair when I read the OP's first post! My first thought was that it was a troll posting this to ruffle some feathers. I had no idea that a school would promote prepping for a gifted test!!! That makes me think of the karate schools who sign people up on a contract promising them a black belt in so many months regardless of whether or not the black belt was earned. I guess if you have money you can buy your child into anything!

My daughter tested into the gifted program when she was in 2nd grade. Not by my recommendation, but by her teacher's recommendation. I would never in all of my life try to prep my child to pass a test and give her the label of being gifted!!!!! What kind of a parent would do that? If you think she truly is gifted, have her tested without the prep. Then you'll know the true answer.

Sorry, but this is just WRONG in so many ways !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[punkin]

There is also a difference between truly gifted kids and the kids toward which GT in NYC is geared. GT (I will only speak for NYC since that was in the OP and I actually know a little something about that system) is geared toward the academically inclined bright child. Many of the kids in the GT classes have been prepped for the test. A truly gifted child is just as likely to stare into space or fill out the circles in a pretty pattern as get a high score on one of these things.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Also "gifted" can apply to certain areas like music, speaking, writing, and reading comprehension and NOT math. Many kids have their kids take Kumon to advance their math skills, esp. when I was in TX. Big deal to get into the G/T because you need to be there in order to graduate in the top 10%.

If you are in higher math you can take higher level math/science classes than reg. students from the beginning in HS. It puts you on an advanced math/science track, which many kids do need.

Now my dd's middle school has "challenge classes" which puts her with the G/T for the arts and in the middle for the math, not gifted and not reg. classes.

Perfect balance for her. When she hits HS she will be in the higher classes for English, History, etc.

Don't know what to tell you other than look at the HS and MS courses/tracks and decide if your child will benefit/enjoy from the "prep" or hate it.

 

[Magpie]

Ok, I'm not being snarky here...I'm just not understanding (obviously I was never in a gifted program ). Are you saying that a kid can't be gifted if they aren't socially awkward?

This doesn't seem right. What if they are just smart and like/need the extra work, but are also a "social butterfly"?

I've got one of those! He's undeniably gifted (higher than the 99th percentile in testing), but he also has an LD (fine and gross motor skills, some directionality issues). And he's a social butterfly!

This kid can walk into a room, size up the social dynamics, and immediately position himself right where he wants to be. He's very, very popular in class and his teachers call him a "leader".

I also have a nerdy smart daughter - classic, awkward gifted kid. Funny thing is, their IQs are almost identical!

 

[KiminChicago]

Both of my kids ended up in the gifted program at our school -- both through teachers' recommendations. In our elementary school, the gifted program doesn't start until 3rd grade and then it is a "pull-out" session with an educator trained in programs for gifted children.

I'm not really sure how my kids ended up in the program -- they are both bright, but as others here have said, being able to do schoolwork well doesn't make a child "gifted". The one thing I did notice from looking over both DS's and DD's "Mindstretchers" folders is that it seems that they do a lot of things like logic puzzles and code breaker type games. Which may explain how they were accepted in the first place -- they both started doing things like Sudoku puzzles when they were in 2nd grade, when their classmates just looked confused by the puzzles.

 

[Magpie]

This is a chart of behavioral markers that helps explain the difference between highly intelligent vs gifted

A Bright Child:__________________________A Gifted Child:
Knows the answers________________________Asks the questions
Is interested______________________________Is very curious
Pays attention____________________________Gets involved mentally and physically
Works hard_______________________________Can be inattentive and still get good grades and test scores
Answers the questions______________________Questions the answers
Enjoys same-age peers_____________________Prefers adults or older children
Learns easily______________________________Often already knows the answers
Is self-satisfied (when gets right answer)______Is highly self-critical (perfectionists)
Is good at memorizing_______________________Is good at guessing

Notice, is says the very intelligent child is good at memorizing. Which is exactly what the tests you can prep for tests - the ability to memorize. Not a true indicator of giftedness. The behavioral markers above are personality traits and cannot be prepped for.

I've never liked this list.

Gifted children are too individual to be stuck in boxes like this.

And as the parent of a gifted child with an eidetic memory - I can tell you, she's VERY good at memorizing.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

I've never liked this list.

Gifted children are too individual to be stuck in boxes like this.

And as the parent of a gifted child with an eidetic memory - I can tell you, she's VERY good at memorizing.

The chart does not say that a gifted child cannot be good at memorizing. What it is saying is that the highly intelligent child will get excellent grades because they have an advanced ability to learn and memorize the information.

A truly gifted child not only can learn and memorize the information, but then can use that information to 'guess' or deduce other problems using that information. They have an ability to process or use logic on other problems that goes beyond their peers.

Much like the PP whose young child was able to use the information he memorized about fire, carbon monoxide and life to logically "guess" that the mouse would not survive in that story.

The gifted child uses their information and memory to ask even more questions.

Which is why the true gifted programs do not focus on strict academics, but on logic, puzzles, and how to enhance that part of the brain.

Parents seem to think that unless their kids are not labeled "gifted" they are not highly intelligent. Either way, a parent has a very, very smart kid.

 

[cdepauli]

Exactly. A gifted child is always bright, however an extremely intelligent child is not necessarily gifted.

The true gifted child has challenges such as social awareness.

For those of you who watch the Big Bang Theory, take the characters of Sheldon and Leonard. Both extremely highly intelligent characters. However, Leonard is pretty well grounded and socially appropriate, thus highly intelligent but not gifted. Sheldon's brain works differently and he just doesn't pick up on social cues, so highly intelligent and gifted.

A true gifted program works on, as a pp said, the creativity of the brain, not just academics. That is handled in the classroom with advanced classes. A true gifted program would also have a very heavy social emphasis to assist these children to be able to make long and lasting friendships with their peers.

Right now, at 4, the social experiences gained in a classroom are far more important than any push on academics. The academics will come naturally. The social experiences will not for the true gifted child.

This post is just not even remotely true. I'm a school psychologist. I test kids for a living. There is little to no research supporting these statements. I should know, I've written research projects about it. The character of Sheldon is most likely on the Autistic spectrum (TV standards) and the character of Leonard is most certainly gifted.

No gifted program in the state of PA has any social skills training. This would only be addressed in a special education IEP if a child has social skills issues impacting their academics.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

This post is just not even remotely true. I'm a school psychologist. .

As am I. We will have to agree to disagree. I have also done much research into gifted vs. intelligence.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

It is common to prep kids for this test in NYC. The programs are not geared for genius children, just brighter than average. Just like a genius doesn't need to prep for the SAT"s but a bright kid can get some help from it, same with the G&T test. Getting your child into a G&T elementary helps to get them into a better HS, which helps to get them into a better college, etc.. Some people look long term and others don't care. It may or may not help every kid, but it doesn't hurt and it may help.

OP - look at the stats for which schools/programs feed into Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech. If your local elementary/jhs has decent numbers I wouldn't worry about it. If they feed into a local hs with high drop rates, high pregnancy rates, etc., then I would look more seriously into the G&T elementary program. If you have a good local high school it's not as big of a deal.

Remember that there tends to be more well to do kids in the G&T programs, that can donate more to their schools and help out when there are budget cuts. The parents tend to be better educated and more focused on education for their child. It will make a difference in the overall class experience and the friends that your child will make. It's not to say that you can't have great kids in your local school, but it will be a bigger mix and include more kids that have parents that are less involved, focused on education, etc..

Just something to think about.

 

[castleview]

Find out how the program works and then relax! A true G&T program will only accept kids who score above a certain level on an IQ or OLSAT test. Many G&T programs are watered down (not unchallenging though) because truly gifted students are rare.

I don't know how it is your neck of the woods, but differentiation is the big thing in my kids schools system. If the teacher is good, she can get it done. My daughter is bright, but not gifted and she is challenged quite well. If you're not satisfied, talk to the teacher.

As for the grandparents, tell them to knock it off. It's natural for them to think their grandkid is better than every other kid, but don't let them give you a complex.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

She's 4!!!! Let her be 4 and leave her where she is.

YES!!!! I just finished up student teaching with K. Beginning of the year we had a little girl who entered and could read already. However, she wasn't one of the older ones in the class. Her parents were in the school every week pushing for this little girl to go to 1st grade, totally skip K. So, she went to 1st for math and English/Reading, then back to K for everything else. She was always asking the 1st grade teacher when was play time (they don't have play time in 1st grade and when she was with 1st K was having their play time so she was totally missing out), I miss my K teacher, etc etc. Her maturity level was NOT that of a 1st grader and she needed to experience K first and socialize with other kids her age. Kids learn through play! This little girl would get homework from both 1st and K and her mom told her she didn't have to do the K work. The K teacher explained to his little girl's parents that even though she was in K, she would pull her aside one on one and have her read and supplement her a bit more with the reading. In the end, the parents fought and fought and the little girl went to 1st grade. Just thought that was odd that this little girl missed out on K.

 

[NY Disney fan]

As for the grandparents, tell them to knock it off. It's natural for them to think their grandkid is better than every other kid, but don't let them give you a complex.

Yeah..I've made up my mind. I am not going to prep her. I will just tell my parents to back off and just support my decision. All the other kids in her little class will be prepping for it. We are going to opt out.

 

[SDFgirl]

http://www.magicalchildhood.com/articles/4yo.htm

 

[KimR]

My 2 cents:

Personally I think the greatest hurdle for gifted kids is to learn how to socially connect with the rest of the world. It is very difficult to recognize we all don't see the world the same and very easy to alienate other people by making unintentionally cruel comments. I believe intelligence will take care of itself so instead, work on play dates and helping your DD immerse herself in Popular Culture so she has some common ground upon which to build friendships. The kids on the playground won't care if she can read or how high she can count, they will care if she doesn't know who Dora is. As she gets older the trappings of middle ground will change but her desperate need to find that middle ground won't change. If she is far above average most people will not able able to follow her train of thought. As a result she will need to be able to change conversation flawlessly and developing those alternatives is harder to do if your interests don't naturally fall into the mundane. Everyday common interests need to be cultivated. My point is that if your child is, in fact, gifted she will stand out without any assistance from you so instead help her learn how to fit in... that's a much more valuable skill for these kids. Well, for any kid it's important but for kids that fall outside the average it is much harder and more necessary.

Good luck

This is kind of OT as it doesn't really relate to the OPs situation, but I do want to make the point that if a child truly has social issues it may be much easier to fit in and learn social skills if he/she is in a group of equally gifted peers. You can't very well learn social skills when you are ostracized by your classmates.

 

[Longsx3]

Ok, I'm not being snarky here...I'm just not understanding (obviously I was never in a gifted program ). Are you saying that a kid can't be gifted if they aren't socially awkward?

This doesn't seem right. What if they are just smart and like/need the extra work, but are also a "social butterfly"?

I feel like I can comment on this, my DD is considered gifted. She is a straight A student on the Gifted tem in 8th grade. Ask her why she stays in Public School vs Home School and she will tell you that she will miss her friendships...not with her classmates but with the Teachers and Admin. When she goes to some camp it is the same.

Not to say she doesn't have any friends because she does but overall she struggles socially. Not because of other kids, but because of her expectations of other kids. BTW she is also very outgoing, just not with kids her own age.

DD's IQ rules her personality. This is very different from my neice who is very bright, a JR in an IB program and does wonderfully both in school and socially but never qualified for gifted!

 

[portocall]

OP I think you made a wise choice. If your child is truly gifted, hopefully a teacher will recognize it and move the process foward.

 

[Magpie]

Yeah..I've made up my mind. I am not going to prep her. I will just tell my parents to back off and just support my decision. All the other kids in her little class will be prepping for it. We are going to opt out.

Good for you! Definitely follow your instincts in this one, as you know your daughter best.

And good luck to you both. Believe me, as parents we often find ourselves having to tell the grandparents to back off and let us do the parenting. You can't start too soon, IMO!

 

[aprilgail2]

One thing to remember, students in G&T programs are often asked to make up the work that they miss in the regular classroom. They are pulled out for the G&T work, and they will not have covered the missed material during their early years in education. This means more time at home doing homework. Not a big deal if your child has no other interests, but it can become overwhelming if your child does.

.

That all depends on the school- our G&T program is after school- they are bused to another school in the district for the G&T program and its after the regular school day so they don't miss any class time at all. It also doesn't start until 3rd grade.

 

[IDoDis]

Good for you, OP! Stick to your guns! After reading about how the G&T program works in NY, it sounds like it's not truly a program for gifted kids, but rather a program for parents who want to think their kids are gifted. As others have said, the true gifted programs don't mean the child is in a high-pressured academic class. It means they have time with like-minded peers to utilize their critical thinking skills in ways that may not be addressed with their other peers. There are plenty of AP classes later on in high school that all of the kids take together -- gifted or not. It's a myth to think that a gifted child means they are very strong in all academics.

You can't fake an IQ. Let your daughter be a little girl and tell your parents to back off.