Pre teens and frenemies

[LuvOrlando]

So what do you tell you kids about them? Does anyone have any good strategies?

Both of my kids, DS12 & DD11, have frenemies that have popped up on my radar. In DD's case the girl is on the periphery so I think a few gentle warnings to keep her distance are enough. But, in the case of DS12, this is one of his closest friends. Now what's hard here is first, I'm not a guy so I don't speak the language and I don't want to mess my kid up. Second, I am confused because I always thought this sort of pathetic jealousy & manipulative behavior was a particularly female attribute. I don't think I've ever seen it in a guy before so it has kind of thrown me off my stride.

Background is I have always told my kids there are friends, there are acquaintances and there are enemies who want to hurt you. They should be loyal to friends, gain as many acquaintances and allies as possible and avoid enemies at all costs. Unfortunately, I didn't cover frenemies because I foolishly thought they wouldn't hit until HS.

Right here I am using the word frenemies to describe the sort of friend who is blatantly jealous, takes swipes all the time and is always trying to bring you down. Miserable.

 

[mjkacmom]

You're lucky, we started dealing with them when dd13 was in the third grade, and this year with ds11. I tell them that a true friend will build you up, and not try to make you feel badly about yourself. There is a great book, Odd Girl Out, that is really very helpful and informative. It's all about bullies (and friendamies are bullies in the truest sense of the word). Oh, edited to add, I hear it gets better in HS - your kids are definitely the right ages to have to be dealing with this.

 

[FireDancer]

Is this some kind of new phenomenon? I am not that old (32) but growing up we actually liked our friends. Sure, we would fight from time to time but we never bullied each other. If people were mean to us we figured it out and stopped hanging out with them.

 

[LuvOrlando]

It's not really new, but the term frenemy is new. Back when I was young we just called them 2 faced or back stabbers.

 

[MUFFYCAT]

It's not really new, but the term frenemy is new. Back when I was young we just called them 2 faced or back stabbers.

That's what I call them. My 18 yo DD has had back stabbing friends since the 2nd or 3rd grade.

 

[hereyago]

DD11 had her first one of these last year in the end part of 5th grade. This girl turned out to be a hater that loved using spray paint on bikes, not hers because she didn't have one.

My DD had the trampoline and really cool bike and popular, this girl was just a hanger on and then she started acting nuts and her mom coudnt figure out why she couldnt keep friends.


I told her that girls are the meanest, coniving things, as I recall from middle school on up to my high school days and even some still in my adult life.

DD's friend from age 2 stayed over the other night and was crying because a "friend" texted to her that she was a "poser", so the friend texted the "frienemie" to try to get forgiveness. I was like, hun, that girl is 11 have a facebook page that looks like she is 16, i kid you not and you are worried about what she thinks of you.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

If it is a close friend of your DS, then you back off, listen, give hugs if you can. He has to come to his own decision about his friend. If you push, he will dig in his heels.

That is my advice.

At that age they have to get burned a bit to "get it", unfortuately. Be there for him.

 

[Amy&Dan]

Its a toughie. I know my daughter had one. They started out in Kind. together, and we became friends with the whole family. Did Sunday afternoon football games together, that sort of thing. Well I noticed as each year started, this kid was getting meaner and meaner. At first to other kids, not dd. Then it started with dd. I told her "are you sure you want to be friends with L"? She always said it was fine, that L wasn't that mean. Then in the beginning of 4th grade my dd's dalmation died. My dd and that dog were inseparable. I never knew a dog and child to be that devoted. Dd was of course crushed. I sent the teacher an email telling her dd would likely be upset and distracted due to the dog's death the day before. The teacher ended up telling the class to all be sure and be nice to my dd because the dog had died (the whole class knew of our dalmation, she was sort of famous in the neighborhood). So that afternoon, this kid, this frenenemy came to dd and said "hey M, I am so glad your dog died, I always hated that dog". Dd was stunned. And the bubble was burst!

She NEVER would be friends with that oh so scary kid again. When I emailed the mom and said "hey, what is L's problem, how could she say that" she made all sorts of excuses. So our friendship pretty much ended too.

Dd lost touch with the kid (went to different middle schools) but then lo and behold they ended up at our church. Now its three years later, the girls have barely spoken and dd keeps a wide berth. And last week, this kid comes up to my dd, gives her a big hug and says "hey, how's your dalmation doing"? She is still evil. But dd knows it. I thought it was like something out of Silence of the Lambs personally. But dd handled it well saying "oh I think you know how she is".


Bottom line, to me its almost a rite of passage, with girls in particular. They sometimes have to learn the hard way that some people really are as mean and nasty as mom says they are! Nothing I said made much impact until dd finally realized this kid really was mean and not even close to being a friend. She had to learn it firsthand which made it a more valuable lesson I must say!

 

[LuvOrlando]

DS sees something is wrong, otherwise he never would have come to me with the recent story. I'm not busting chops or anything and I would never, ever ever tell my kids who they can or can't be friends with after all I trust their judgment. But I'm their Mom and I will absolutely tell them what I think about their friends and what I see.

This trouble with DS's friend has been brewing over the past year. My DS is the only boy and the oldest in our home, which means all boy kid stuff here is about him. This friend is the youngest of 3, gets beat up & told what to do by his brothers and is pretty much ignored in his house so he has a huge chip on his shoulder. I'm a SAHM and dote on my kids while my DF is a more hands off style of parent which kind of goes hand in hand with him being ignored and no-one stepping in when the 2 6ft older brothers beat on the kid. Both boys are in the same accelerated classes in school, and are on the same Basketball team but their personalities are very different. My DS is pretty laid back, think 'surfer dude' while his friend is a totally Type A personality thinking and talking a mile a minute, very aggressive and competitive. They have stayed friends because my DS laughs easily and tends to be quiet while the other kid loves to have the spotlight. This kid's Mom is always going on about how bad he is and allows her other boys to bad mouth him too, I really can't listen and pull back from this sort of thing. My house, on the other hand, is a violence free zone and I really do believe in talking with my kids first and resort to punishment only when I think they are being deliberate, which isn't all tht often. We are close with this other family so I always did my best to say kind things to the kid but now, as this kid is growing he is beginning to spiral out of control. He has written threatening letters to his brothers, setting dates about hurting them, and written mean letters to his parents wishing them dead. Once the parents left him alone and he lit a candle which caused a small fire. When Mom asked me what to do I said get him someone to tlk to, I was thinking counselor but she was thinking a priest . Basically, I think the parents are turning the kid into a nutcase but there is nothing I can do to stop it, and I am certainly not going to put my DS in this kids path.

Frankly, today I realized I may be part of the problem for my DS and this kid. Since I have always tried to be kind to this kid he looks to me for support and has, more than once, compared his mom to me unfavorably... which I think is a shame. To be honest I feel bad for the kid because I came from a home where I was ignored so I can relate to him. Today it occurred to me that what is happening between my DS and him is a weird kind of one sided sibling rivalry which is totally messed up because #1, I don't want to be his Mom and #2, there is no way I would ever put anyone in front of my DS. So lately I've been ignoring the kid but I think it may be too late.

Basically, I like the kid but I can't stand how he is treating my DS these days. I don't want to burn bridges because at 12 this kid can go either way, either snap out of it or go bad. If he snaps out of it he could still be a good friend to my DS, but if he goes bad, he could be a dangerous enemy.

I'm thinking the best way to deal with this is to help give my DS strategies for diluting the relationship slowly. The more friends DS brings in the less effect this other kid will have on him and the less opportunity for mixing it up. I think eating lunch with other kids and inviting them over is where I'll encourage DS to start but I am completely lost with how to counsel DS to smooth things over with this kid because, like I said, I think he could be dangerous enemy.

Uggh, I hate this sort of stuff. I'm going to be thinking this over for a few days and how to proceed, if anyone has any ideas please let me know. Like I said we are very intertwined at the moment so cutting things off completely would do more harm than good. I need management strategies. Talking to the Mom is out of the question. I firmly believe no parent will ever tolerate another parent criticizing their kid, no matter how right they are or even if they actually agree besides I don't think she could ever be of any help since she's probably this kid's biggest problem and it's not my place to tell her anyway. I'm only interested on what I can do on my side.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I think you make a lot of good points. There is clearly some things going on with the whole family dynamic of this kid.

And I can relate. As I look back, my daughter's frenemy was the middle girl, flocked by two sisters who were high achiever's and drop dead gorgeous (and she is very pretty too, but I think the competition thing between sisters inspired her ways).

I hope it all works out! I am like you, I don't tell my kids who to be friends with, but I do find myself worrying over some of their choices. I think your idea of giving your ds some strategies to sort of distance himself is a good one. The problem may solve itself. If this mean kid finds he can't play his mean game with your ds, he'll probably go find somebody else to torment. Or he'll do something that just breaks the old camel's back and your son will be done all on his own.

In my dd's case, that is what happened. And three + years later, that girl is still mean and her game has only been perfected so I am glad dd got the messae long ago to stay away at all costs.

ETA: I just reread your last post a bit more carefully. Somehow I missed the part about the letters to his brothers and parents and the fire thing is beyond scary. In this case, I would absolutely forbid your son to be with that boy. Those are all huge red flags. If this kid insists on seeking your son out, I would talk to the teachers or whoever to see that its monitored and be kept in the loop of how much time they spend together. I am sorry but that is all way beyond typical "mean kid" stuff. This is a disturbed young man who needs help. As much as you have cared about this kid and his family and as much as you wish to help, in the end, you may just have to back out and let them deal with their own problem. I really hope it does work out for this kid, its very sad.

 

[Bluestars]

If this boy is writing letters to his brothers about hurting them and writing letters to his parents wishing them dead, he needs professional counseling ASAP. Hopefully the parents will get him the help he needs.

I don't blame you for being concerned about your son. If your son doesn't want to have a close friendship with this boy, then I agree that inviting other kids over to your house will be a good start.

My son had a friend, who really wasn't a friend. This kid would try to put my son down and would make mean comments about him. We knew that he was jealous of my son. His father was very strict and I think this resulted in some confidence issues with this boy.

Anyway, my son got tired of it and stopped inviting the boy over. The relationship then fizzled and my son doesn't have anything to do with him any more.

 

[LuvOrlando]

The whole situation is a shame. This kid is a brilliant kid, really really smart focused and disciplined. Truthfully this child has the potential to do something great, be someone great but if he doesn't get himself together personally things will not go well for him. It's too bad but that may be water under the bridge, I can't help him now and won't even try. I'm all for helping people out but not at the expense of someone else, especially when that someone is mine. Mess with my kid and you're on your own.

The whole thing has been bothering me all day, oddly it bothers me more than my DS. But my DS is only 12 and doesn't know everything his friends Mom has told me...

 

[Bluestars]

LuvOrlando, if his mother ever asks you for advice, I think you should recommend her son see a child psychologist. Her son has a lot of anger issues that could be dangerous to himself and others.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I tried to do so gently without overstepping my bounds. I have said things like, "Well maybe if what you're doing isn't working you might want to try a different style. I have no experience with it but maybe the school guidance counselor has some ideas or another professional." I've suggested that she give him a voice by spending one on one time with him every night so she can really HEAR what the kid is experiencing and that maybe that would diffuse some of the troubles. When she was telling me about the letter to his Dad, wishing his Dad would go away on a business tip and die I suggested she find some help with this sort of personality. The thing is my DF's Mom died recently so she was VERY VERY absent from the home, physically and mentally, so the kids year has probably been a horror. As a result the Mom thinks its all about her absence and that she'll be able to fix it all soon. But the truth is that while it's been much much worse this past year, I began to notice some abnormal aggression in the kid the year before. For a while there the school anted hm tested for ADHD but once her son was slated for the gifted programs she decided they were wrong. I tried to gently tell her that ADHD has zero to do with intelligence, but her mind closed. I hope for the kids sake she sorts things out quickly. I'm not being mean when I say this kid has the potential to be very dangerous. He's smart, has a bad temper and if he grows to his Dad and brothers height will top off at around 6'4'' which could be a mean combination... but if he gets himself under control he's the sort of kid who could find the cure for cancer.

 

[Bluestars]

It looks like you tried your best to help her. Hopefully, she will get professional help for him before something bad happens. The only thing you can do is protect your son. I know that I would not want my son hanging out with someone with such anger issues.

That's a sad situation. I hope she gets him help.

 

[LuvOrlando]

SO over the weekend my DS went to another kid in his classes home with 3 other boys to do a Social Studies project. When they were done the boys had a blast in the woods with some foam guns. Can I say Thank God, this couldn't have happened at a better time. I will make it a point to have these other kids over during the next month.

DS's frenemy is back from vacation today. I sent DS off to school with the advice: when he tries to tell you how much better his vacation is than ours to WDW will be just nod and say, sounds like you had fun when he tries to put you on defensive just blow him off don't let him bait you. Be the bigger man and your friend will look like a kook.

I am sitting here wondering how it's going for him... I hope I am giving him good guidance.

 

[agnes!]

SO over the weekend my DS went to another kid in his classes home with 3 other boys to do a Social Studies project. When they were done the boys had a blast in the woods with some foam guns. Can I say Thank God, this couldn't have happened at a better time. I will make it a point to have these other kids over during the next month.

DS's frenemy is back from vacation today. I sent DS off to school with the advice: when he tries to tell you how much better his vacation is than ours to WDW will be just nod and say, sounds like you had fun when he tries to put you on defensive just blow him off don't let him bait you. Be the bigger man and your friend will look like a kook.

I am sitting here wondering how it's going for him... I hope I am giving him good guidance.

I think it sounds like good advice, please come back and update the thread.

And remember...

Only those who rise to the bait get hooked.

agnes!