Potential DVCer

[cruise-o-matic]

We'll be going back to Disney in July for the 3rd time in just a year & 1/2. I'll admit, the DVC definitely has my attention, but I have a lot of questions:

Buy into the New SSR or buy resale? I know SSR expires in 2054. Do all the others, including HH, expire in 2042?

What are the closing costs associated with buying from Disney vs resale? Other costs or considerations? Is it a per contract or per point basis? Who pays the MF's?

I've seen a link to a couple of resellers, The Timeshare Store, etc? Who is the best to buy from? Does Disney also have resales?

It seems like a good resale buy strategy is to get a place that doesn't have borrowed points. Get one with current points and use them right away or rent them and lower your price per point basis. Am correct in assuming this?

What is the most popular DVC location? By this, I mean which one gets filled up quicker b/n 11-7 months out.

What are the MF's for each resort?

If you plan to travel to DWD on off peak times, is it better to buy the lowest price per point resale? Or lowest maintenance fee resort? Then use your points for a non-home resort?

If I get 150 from one resort, then add on 50 more from another, do I only get to call the 50 point resort my home resort for my 200 points or is it just home for 50 of them (plus banked and borrowed points from that resort)?

Right now, HH, looks appealing. On the reale market, the price per point is one of the lowest. Plus it is within driving distance for a long weekend stay and also has low maintenace fees. Would it be best for me to get into DVC here?

Have I left anything out?????

Thanks.
(I've got to go to a meeting shortly, so I amy not reply until later. Feel free to PM me.)

 

[av8tor]

Wow, lots of great questions. I just went thru the same agonizing process and based on much of the great feedback I recieved on this forum I decided to go forward with a resale at one of the more popular resorts (harder to get reservations at).
If you are going to continue going to Diseny at least once a year I think the DVC is definately worth looking into.

We were considering the same thing, buy SSR or buy resale. The overwellming response I got was to decide where you most want to stay and buy there. We also tend to come during the slowest periodes, but I don't know that we will always be able to as the kids get older and DW (a teacher) returns to work. Also, with the currnet DVC expansion there will be that much more competition to book at the more popular resorts.

If you buy from Disney, they pay all the closing cost. If you buy resale the standard practice is the buyer pays closing cost (mine are $500) and the buyer pays MF for all current year points, not on any banked points. This of course is all negotiable. I saw a thread from the last couple of days that discussed this quite a bit. The point price and all these other costs will very with the resort you chose and the points that are currently available. If you shop arround you may be able to find a resell that even has some banked points.

I am working with The Timeshare Store. Again a thread on this subject in the last day or two with good responses.

I believe BCV is the most popular, closely followed by BWV.

I am not sure of all the different MF's but there are easy to find on line.

You can only use the points you own for each specific resort to book that resort at the 11 month window. Example, if you have 50 points at one location that will be available when you want to stay, that is all the points you can book for that location at 11 months. It seems alot of people book where they can at 11 months and then try to switch when the get to 7 months.

 

[FLYNZ4]

I am the author of the post that Av8tor (the other pilot ) is talking about... and I went through the same decision process that you are going through.

I think that av8tor is right that BCV/BWV/VWL are the most difficult to reserve... and that trend will continue to increase over time. Therefore, if you really want to primarily stay in any of those resorts, then you should buy there. The Epcot resort area has always been our favorite place to stay... so our natural choice was to want either BCV or BWV.

After a lot of consideration, we felt that SSR location near DD was a close second to Epcot for us. This is especially true with teenage kids, who really enjoy going to DQ and PI.

We decided to buy SSR, and we made this decision knowing full well that it will probably always be easier for a BWV/BCV/VWL owner to reserve SSR than vice versa.

What really convinced us to buy SSR was the 50 year contract. It really doesn't matter much to my wife and I as we are about 50yo... however we think that the equity of the shorter term DVC contracts will enter a price erosion more quickly than the longer contracts. My thinking is as follows: A lot of people buy DVC with a hope of willing the property to their children. I think the entire psychology around Disney promotes this desire. In another 10 years (for example)... there will be 28 years left on the contract... and new buyers will generally expect to outlive the term of the contracts. I think that the realization that they will not be passing this on to their kids will have a downward push on resale prices. To date... the price of resale DVC contracts has been increasing even though the terms are decreasing... but clearly this cannot continue indefinitely. In 38 years... the value of a contract will be zero... so by definition... the price will have to go down sometime between now and then... so it is just a matter of "when"... not 'if".

I am currently thinking that it may be the best strategy to buy SSR now, and then assuming that DVC opens a new set of resorts in ~15 years with new 50 year contracts... to sell SSR and buy the new resort at that time.

In the mean time... I know that I will be happy to stay in the SSR location.

BTW, we really did not consider OKW because it had neither the longer contract, nor the park side location of BCV/BWV/VWL.

Overall, I support the general advice about buying in the location that you want to stay. For sure... do not buy anyplace that you would not be happy staying for every future trip if necessary. You might want to consider how important this might be if DVC was to start expanding considerably beyond the confines of WDW... and if WDW was the reason that you are buying. For example... lets say that DVC built 1000 resorts (just to make the point) all over the USA... you would have to compete with the owners of all of those resorts at the 7 month window to ever get a chance to stay at WDW... and such reservations might be next to impossible to book... resulting in the only reliable way to get a reservation in WDW is to book your "home" at 11 months. For me... that would be enough reason not to buy at HHI regardless of price... unless I was buying to stay at HHI.

Finally, once you decide on your ideal location, I also suggest that you factor in the term of the contract as well.

/Jim

 

[Cruelladeville]

With the possible exception of SSR, most of us who bought in to the other resort areas will live to see the end of our contracts, although we certainly will be quite aged by then! This is probably a blessing to our off-spring, since a contract willed to them is just a financial burden if it's near 2042. Sure, you can take a "free" trip if you have $1000 in dues, and an additional sum for food, admissions, and transportation($1500?) The downward push on prices will be a result of the length of use that remains, not the ability to will your DVC to off-spring. Otherwise, I agree with you.

 

[FLYNZ4]

Originally posted by Cruelladeville
This is probably a blessing to our off-spring, since a contract willed to them is just a financial burden if it's near 2042.

I am not sure it would be a financial burden. Assuming that point rentals remain competitive... they could always rent the points and keep the proceeds.

If I was to not use my DVC points for just one year... and rent them for $10/point... it would pay the MF's for my DVC... plus nearly 100% of my MF's for my other 11 weeks of timeshare ownership.

Since I own them outright... there are no payments other than MFs.

/Jim

 

[cruise-o-matic]

Wow, thanks for the great replies.

Another question about Disney. What do they do with the points they buy back from new owners? Use them for DreamMaker Packages?

Does Disney "own" or retain a lot of points? Enough to fluctuate the price? Will they rent some to owners in case you're tapped out on points? (Or do you get another DVC owner to transfer or rent them to you?)

And what's their ROFL policy? If they don't like the price, will Disney counter offer? Any idea on the minimum ppp that Disney will accept?

The ppp seems to be $10? How did that come about? I've seen some list for more. How do they do that when it is more than the market price? Do they book a popular week, like Christmas, in advance, and speculate they can "rent" the points for more than the market price?

So it seems like buy SSR b/c of the term or get BCW, BWL or VWL on resale for price. As far as amenities, how does SSR compare to the other 3?

HHI, for example, since it is not at WDW, will probably always have availability at 7 months out. While the HHI & Vero owners compete to get DVC's at WDW, trying to "maximize" their point values.

On the flip side, if you own in a popular location, you would be "devaluing" your points by booking a less popular resort. Also, it seems that using your points at a non-DVC WDW resort or DCL is not always the best way to use your points. Is this a correct assumption.

Thanks again.

 

[DrTomorrow]

Just my $.02 here, but I think you might be over-analyzing a tad (something I'm guilty of all too often myself). True, this is a big decision, and a lot of $$$ to spend. But if you're concerned about the fact that buying into BCV and using your points at OKW might be "devaluing", I don't know if DVC is right for you. As many have said, this is a pre-paid vacation, not an investment. We bought into SSR as we like the location and the resort-only nature of the property - plus the 50 year length will let us leave something to our son and his family. But we plan on staying at all of the DVC resorts, including Eagle Pines, The Contemporary Resort Villas and, of course, the Villas at Mars Outpost ( a few in-jokes ) - and we won't be thinking that we're not optimizing our points' value.

Best of luck in your decision!

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by cruise-o-matic
Another question about Disney. What do they do with the points they buy back from new owners? Use them for DreamMaker Packages?

Does Disney "own" or retain a lot of points? Enough to fluctuate the price? Will they rent some to owners in case you're tapped out on points? (Or do you get another DVC owner to transfer or rent them to you?)

Disney retains ownership (their own cachet of points) at each property. A point represents the ability to book a stay at one of the timeshare resorts. Therefore, Disney uses their points to allow guests to book a stay at their cash rates.

The number of points they typically own is somewhere in the 5% range. But they may acquire more via trades (members using points for cruises, non-DVC resorts, Disneyland, etc.), Magical Beginnings, exercising ROFR on resales, etc.

And what's their ROFL policy? If they don't like the price, will Disney counter offer? Any idea on the minimum ppp that Disney will accept?

I assume you mean ROFR (as in Right of First Refusal.) In the past, there has seemingly been little logic behind their decisions. Certainly they have some sort of price floor at each property, and will exercise ROFR if the sale price is just too low. But they also look at factors like banked vs. borrowed points, who is paying closing, who is paying maintenance on banked points, and so on.

A resale agent could give you details on what they have seen recently, but other than offering a couple dollars above the current market rate, there's no way to absolutely guarantee that DVC won't grab the contract.

And, DVC does not counter-offer. You negotiate your own sale terms with the seller. Once you have a written agreement with the seller, the agreement goes before DVC. If they like the terms, they exercies ROFR, take the contract under your negotiated terms and you get nothing.

The ppp seems to be $10? How did that come about? I've seen some list for more. How do they do that when it is more than the market price? Do they book a popular week, like Christmas, in advance, and speculate they can "rent" the points for more than the market price?

There's no real concensus on where the $10 per point rental fee originated. That's the current Magical Beginnings buy-back figure that DVC uses, and some believe that plays a role.

Some people do rent for more, and they claim success in charging $11 or 12 per point. Guess it all depends on your sales pitch.

So it seems like buy SSR b/c of the term or get BCW, BWL or VWL on resale for price. As far as amenities, how does SSR compare to the other 3?

I somewhat disagree with the prior comments about where it is difficult to book at 7 months. The reality is that all of the properties have some level of desirability which may be difficult to achieve unless you own at that resort. For example:

OKW - VERY cheap Grand Villas.
BWV - Standard view rooms (lower points) or Boardwalk View rooms.
BCV and VWL - Smallest resorts.
SSR - DD Water View rooms.

So, while some people immediately dismiss OKW as being less than desirable, others realize that it's nearly impossible to book one of their Grand Villas at less than 7 months. With a price as low as 36 points per night for the OKW GV (vs. 67 at SSR and 74 at BWV), those Grand Villas are VERY desirable rooms to folks who like to bring friends and family.

It's becoming a cliche on this board, but the best approach is to pick the one resort that most suits your tastes, and buy into that resort. (aka "buy where you want to stay.")

HHI, for example, since it is not at WDW, will probably always have availability at 7 months out. While the HHI & Vero owners compete to get DVC's at WDW, trying to "maximize" their point values.

Don't know how you came to that conclusion. I've read posts from satisfied VB and HHI owners who love those resorts. Just because we're talking about the "DISNEY Vacation Club" doesn't mean that people's interests begin and end with the Magic Kingdom.

In fact, as I understand it, there are times of the year when both VB and HHI can be impossible to book by those who do not own there.

If your interest in HHI and VB is minimal, then you certainly should not buy there since your 11 month priority booking window is nonexistent.

On the flip side, if you own in a popular location, you would be "devaluing" your points by booking a less popular resort. Also, it seems that using your points at a non-DVC WDW resort or DCL is not always the best way to use your points. Is this a correct assumption.

Thanks again.

I'm with Dr. T on this one. We're talking about a VACATION here. If you want to buy into BCV and spend the next 40 years staying just there, more power to you. But one of the more attractive features of DVC is the ability to stay at the other resorts that are part of the program.

Now, as for the properties that are NOT part of DVC, no, they are not always the best use of your points. For example, you can book a 2B at BCV in January for 30 points. But, for those same dates, a Garden View (lowest class) room at the Grand Floridian would cost 37 points. You can't even begin to compare the quality of accommodations, and the GF room is 20% HIGHER.

 

[Beca]

As you've already received a LOT of good advice...I really have don't have a lot to add..except this...when you picture yourself at WDW...where is that? Where is that one place that would truly make you the "happiest"?...buy there. This is my mantra..."DVC is a lot of money to no LOVE where you buy." If you think you will be happy anywhere...then look at the best "deal" for you.

No matter what...good luck in your decision!!!! And, please keep us posted.





Beca

 

[JimC]

Another vote for buying where you want to stay the most.

Maintenance fees at DVC:

OKW $3.68
VB $4.67
HH $3.86
BWV $4.25
VWL $4.22
BCV $4.18
SSR $3.80

AT OKW the MFs have gone up average of 3.0% each year since opening, however the last two years have been much higher at 6.9% each year.

 

[jimmytammy]

In July, take a little time and check out all the DVC resorts to see what appeals the most. Buy where you will want to stay the most cause the 11 mos window will factor in for you. If HH is where you will stay the most, there is where you will want to purchase.

Just be realistic with yourself and your family.

WLV I would say is the most difficult to book because it is the smallest with 136 rooms.

Good luck in your decision. We havent regretted our purchase or the addons.

BTW where in NC are you from?

 

[WDWLVR]

You have received lots of great advice so I'll just add that the buy where you want to stay advice is the best.

I love the fact that DVC is so flexible. We own at BWV, but we've also stayed at VWL and OKW. I'm sure in the future that we'll also stay at SSR and BCV as well as any other DVC's that open. Not sure if I'll make it to the Mars DVC but you never know

Next year we plan on staying at our Boardwalk home hopefully with a Boardwalk view!

 

[cruise-o-matic]

Thanks again for all the great advice.

JimmyTammy - Just down the road in GSO. BTW, our Mustang Club is having their show on the 12th at Colonial Mall. Sorry, but I won't be able to go

During popular times, like Christmas, do you have to call 11 months in advance for 7 straight days to book a weekly ressie?
(Personally, I'd prefer not to visit during crowded times....or July, but DD will be 7 soon...daggum school calendar.)

I'll try to take some time and visit some of the resorts to get a feel for them.

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by cruise-o-matic
During popular times, like Christmas, do you have to call 11 months in advance for 7 straight days to book a weekly ressie?
(Personally, I'd prefer not to visit during crowded times....or July, but DD will be 7 soon...daggum school calendar.)

That is really such a hard question to answer.

Some people choose to book day-by-day at 11 months do it for the peace of mind. But in reality, no, the 5 DVC resorts will not be at 100% capacity within a few days of the 11 month window--even for holiday periods.

Some of the smaller resorts will certainly fill up quicker, which is why it is important to buy at a resort like VWL or BCV if you want to stay there often. But there was a post the other day from someone asking for advice on a 12/31 stay, claiming that MS said there is still availability at ALL of the resorts.

But also know that DVC allows members to go on a waiting list if there is no availability at your desired resort when you call to book. Realistically, the more people try to plan their vacations 10 and 11 months ahead of time, the more frequently they will see their plans change between the time of booking and the time of stay. That leads to more cancellations and more waitlist success. If you go on the waitlist, you get first priority whenever someone cancels a reservation that meets your needs.

Aside from the recent Member Homecoming (an event that was a big draw for DVC members on May 25-27), it's rare that posts will appear on these boards from people claiming that ALL of the DVC resorts are completely sold out and they simply can't get a room.

Of greater concern should be the realization that during busier times of the year (holidays, most of Oct - Dec with Food & Wine fest and Christmas festivities) you need to book your Home resort as early as possible, and you may be shut-out of the smaller properties even at 7 months.

Does that help?

 

[Muushka]

Originally posted by cruise-o-matic
Snip....Right now, HH, looks appealing. On the reale market, the price per point is one of the lowest. Plus it is within driving distance for a long weekend stay and also has low maintenace fees. Would it be best for me to get into DVC here?

Check out how much it costs per weekend night at HH before you buy there. It could get pretty point-costly to visit there on weekends often, esp. on Sat nights.

Good luck with your decision. ~Fellow NC'er

 

[cruise-o-matic]

Again, many thanks.

HH is kinda pricey on the weekends. But I'd save a lot on airfare for the family.....

I went to the Atimeshare and The Timeshare Store sites. It seems that based on what's on the resale market that BCV is gobbled up quickly(none listed), followed by BWV. I would say that based on location, that would probably be my favorites. But DD would probably prefer VWL b/c of closeness to MK.

Though SSR has its perks b/c of the longer contract.

OKW just does not interest me at all.

How is the Stormalong Bay at BCV? DD would love that.

BTW, what does Disney do with the ROFR that it buys? Do they mark it up and try to resell?

 

[FLYNZ4]

DVC sells the resales at $84/point. They do not have much inventory... especially for the resorts that you are most interested in. Tell your guide what you want, and if he/she sees some availability, you will get a call.

/Jim

 

[cruise-o-matic]

Holy cow $84 a point. Like buying a used car from a new car dealer.

 

[JimC]

If you want to buy from Disney with no closing costs and their financing, you pay their rate. At $84 you are paying about $2.21 per point over the remaining life of the contract. A resale, where you will likely have closing costs and you need to find your own financing goes for about $72 or $1.95 per point -- pretty close to the SSR per point price (see below).

SSR at $95 is about $1.90.

 

[pumpkinboy]

Originally posted by cruise-o-matic
Holy cow $84 a point. Like buying a used car from a new car dealer.

I dunno, when you consider closing costs, and the prices folks are looking for when they list BCV and BWV, $84 a point with no hassles is a decent deal. It's an even better deal when we're talking small contracts. We happily paid $84 a point for a BWV add-on in February, netting us 65 pts with our same UY; and we were able to finance them farily cheaply (~5% interest with 50% down); and no wait for ROFR, no closing costs, and prorated maintenence dues. Plus we were able to make ressies on these points within hours of confirming to our guide that we wanted them. Altogether a fairly painless transaction, but for the waiting for points to become available.