Possible PSVA Concern

[happycamper47]

Vancouver is a foreign port. It's not a DISTANT foreign port under the PVSA, but it's a near foreign port.

Sydney would be a distant foreign port, if it mattered, which it doesn't because the PVSA looks at the TOTAL B2B2B cruise - where OP is embarking and disembarking - Sydney & San Diego. A cruise beginning in a distant foreign port would not fall under the requirements of the PVSA. Just like a Vancouver to San Diego cruise would be legal.

I forgot the word distant.

 

[happycamper47]

You're comparing one cruise to two individual cruises which is 2/3 of my total plan

BINGO! Individual cruises... As I said Sydney to San DIego via Hawaii, would be fine.

Personally I think PVSA is antiquated and needs to be abolished.... We can't even get the skilled labor to build our Navy ships, let alone large cruise ships in the US. For sure you would never get the necessary American crew.

 

[SirDuff]

It doesn't really make sense that the first cruise is ignored (because you get on and off the ship) while the second and third cruise are considered together (you still get on and off the ship).

 

[auntlynne]

Well DCL reached out to me saying that the Honolulu to Vancouver, Vancouver to San Diego is against the PVSA. I understood that part would be against PVSA if it was all I booked. They didn't seem to be able to explain how I'm going from US to US when I start cruising from Sydney as I'm doing 3 cruises in a row.

I think the issue is that the US law may not kick in until the ship leaves Honolulu in this B2B2B scenario. For these purposes, yes, perhaps Sydney to Honolulu is treated separately - maybe it is not subject to PVSA rules.

If you left Honolulu and made a distant foreign port stop in the way to Vancouver or between Vancouver and San Diego, then you could be okay.

(edited to add perhaps, Msybe, and could. I am speculating, based on logic, not knowledge of the written law).

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Well DCL reached out to me saying that the Honolulu to Vancouver, Vancouver to San Diego is against the PVSA. I understood that part would be against PVSA if it was all I booked. They didn't seem to be able to explain how I'm going from US to US when I start cruising from Sydney as I'm doing 3 cruises in a row.

Did you ask to talk to the lawyers? Or was this just told to you by a guest services/reservation CM?

 

[Pixarfans]

Deleted.
Hope it all works out for you.

 

[ljhayes]

I think the determination is between 2 US ports and has no bearing on what you did before (or after). No matter how many legs there are on your trip. So every time you go from a US port to a 2nd US port they look to see where you stopped in between. They would do this “test” between ever pair of US ports.

This is not accurate. The PVSA is based on embarkation and disembarkation with the following definition:

Embark means a passenger boarding a vessel for the duration of a specific voyage and disembark means a passenger leaving a vessel at the conclusion of a specific voyage. The terms embark and disembark are not applicable to a passenger going ashore temporarily at a coastwise port who reboards the vessel and departs with it on sailing from the port.

In this case they are embarking in Sydney and disembarking in San Diego and this is not a PVSA violation. Most likely their system is set up to flag potential violations and not smart enough to recognize the first cruise on this B2B2B making this not a violation. I would think going up the chain for someone who actually understands the PVSA is the best option. But it's possible they are too scared of a fine to bother figuring it out for you.

 

[diztodd]

Did you ask to talk to the lawyers? Or was this just told to you by a guest services/reservation CM?

The highest they could get us was guest services. We asked to talk to compliance multiple times and they just kept reiterating the news and placing us on hold.

 

[diztodd]

This is not accurate. The PVSA is based on embarkation and disembarkation with the following definition:

Embark means a passenger boarding a vessel for the duration of a specific voyage and disembark means a passenger leaving a vessel at the conclusion of a specific voyage. The terms embark and disembark are not applicable to a passenger going ashore temporarily at a coastwise port who reboards the vessel and departs with it on sailing from the port.

In this case they are embarking in Sydney and disembarking in San Diego and this is not a PVSA violation. Most likely their system is set up to flag potential violations and not smart enough to recognize the first cruise on this B2B2B making this not a violation. I would think going up the chain for someone who actually understands the PVSA is the best option. But it's possible they are too scared of a fine to bother figuring it out for you.

This is exactly how I interpret that definition as well.

 

[auntlynne]

This is not just an issue with Disney. Over on Cruise Critic, guests ran into this problem trying a reverse direction B2B2B California to Oz on Royal Caribbean.

 

[happycamper47]

This is exactly how I interpret that definition as well.

You are "entering" the US from a foreign port then disembarking in Hawaii. As I stated earlier, my money says you will have to take all your luggage off and go through a full customs inspection just like flying in. Why would you be exempt from that requirement? That is something you are not normally required to do for B2B's. You did not board the ship on US soil. Just like getting on board in Vancouver for Alaska you go through US customs before boarding, albeit not with your luggage.

 

[ljhayes]

You are "entering" the US from a foreign port then disembarking in Hawaii. As I stated earlier, my money says you will have to take all your luggage off and go through a full customs inspection just like flying in. Why would you be exempt from that requirement? That is something you are not normally required to do for B2B's. You did not board the ship on US soil. Just like getting on board in Vancouver for Alaska you go through US customs before boarding, albeit not with your luggage.

Going through customs (or immigration which does happen on every B2B) has nothing to do with it.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

The highest they could get us was guest services. We asked to talk to compliance multiple times and they just kept reiterating the news and placing us on hold.

Hmm.... IMO, you should call, and without mentioning what you're calling about, when the CM answers request a supervisor. From there, explain that you need to actually talk to the compliance (or resolutions, don't know what they call them on DCL) department. The issue, I believe, is that the computer program is set to see if anyone who books either the Haw/Vanc or Vanc/SD cruise has also booked the other one and kicks it out. You need a real person to look at your itinerary and manually OK it. That would be the lawyers.

They really should be working with you on this.

I'm sorry you're having such an issue with this.

 

[diztodd]

UPDATE: After being told multiple times that we were in violation despite what I understood, we adjusted our plans to spend more time in Australia before the cruises. I spent half of my day changing flights, hotels, plans, time off from work requests, etc. (everything but call DCL to cancel the Vancouver to San Diego portion of the trip).

Guess who calls at 4:30PM and left me a voicemail? DCL saying that I was not in violation of the PVSA as I'm boarding the ship in Sydney and sailing to the US, not sailing US to US as they originally thought even though I explained it multiple times over multiple days & calls. I tried to call the rep back but they were not available so I will try again tomorrow. At this point though, I've already adjusted my plans and I'm sticking with these new plans. I'll just fly home from Vancouver.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

UPDATE: After being told multiple time that we were in violation despite what I understood, we adjusted our plans to spend more time in Australia before the cruises. I spent half of my day changing flights, hotels, plans, etc. (everything but call DCL to cancel the Vancouver to San Diego portion of the trip).

Guess who calls at 4:30PM and left me a voicemail? DCL saying that I was not in violation of the PVSA as I'm boarding the ship in Sydney and sailing to the US, not sailing US to US as they originally thought even though I explained it multiple times over multiple days & calls. I tried to call the rep back but they were not available so I will try again tomorrow. At this point though, I've already adjusted my plans and I'm sticking with these new plans. I'll just fly home from Vancouver.

I'm glad you've settled on something that works for you. I thought the original B2B2B sounded like a great cruise.

 

[diztodd]

I'm glad you've settled on something that works for you. I thought the original B2B2B sounded like a great cruise.

Thank you for all your help!

The new plans are to fly to Melbourne, see the Beauty and the Beast musical and then set sail on the Melbourne repositioning to Sydney cruise on the Wonder. Then spend three days in Sydney to explore the sites as well as see the Peter and the Starcatcher play before boarding for the B2B South Pacific & Hawaii cruises. It'll still be a fantastic trip!

Also, I would prefer to do Pacific Coast with San Francisco but that hasn't been a stop in years sadly. Maybe it'll work out better in the future.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Thank you for all your help!

The new plans are to fly to Melbourne, see the Beauty and the Beast musical and then set sail on the Melbourne repositioning to Sydney cruise on the Wonder. Then spend three days in Sydney to explore the sites as well as see the Peter and the Starcatcher play before boarding for the B2B South Pacific & Hawaii cruises. It'll still be a fantastic trip!

Also, I would prefer to do Pacific Coast with San Francisco but that hasn't been a stop in years sadly. Maybe it'll work out better in the future.

We stopped in San Francisco on a Princess cruise a few years back.

Is the Magic staying in Sydney for 3 days between the Melbourne and Hawaii cruises?

 

[diztodd]

We stopped in San Francisco on a Princess cruise a few years back.

Is the Magic staying in Sydney for 3 days between the Melbourne and Hawaii cruises?

The Wonder does a 4-night Melbourne to Sydney, then a 3-Night Disney Magic at Sea cruise to nowhere from Sydney back to Sydney, followed by the South Pacific out of Sydney.

 

[auntlynne]

All this run-around!

I hope you will be happy (maybe happier) in the end with the vacation you have created.

I don’t know if you were already spending time in Australia pre-cruise. I can say that I would much rather see more of Australia than more of the Pacific Ocean off the West Coast after all your Sea Days.

Have you heard of others caught in this same mess? Maybe scrapped there initial plans, too.

Kudos for your efforts to get to the correct response. Not to DCL for their incorrect response and poor reaction time.