Positive WDW remarks?

[Wick]

Ok ok, play nice now.....

We ALL have opinions and obviously enjoy sharing them....because we are posting here.

One thing the realists and the "princess pack" <-- too funny Another Voice...have in common is we all LOVE Disney....we wouldn't be here if we didn't.

I was a dedicated member of the "princess pack" and proud of it until my reservation got tied up in that horrible AP mess a few years back (remember? must pay for the first night, non refundable, and IF a discount occurs, it will automatically give given. ) Luckily - WDW discontinued THAT one after about 2 months.

My eyes were opened after that. I still LOVE WDW .....(I'm now nuts about DL and the Grand Californian ) and will continue to go a couple times a year. I almost ENVY the loyal dedication of the "princess pack" but I'm willing to call a "spade a spade" now.

Part of my retirement from the "princess pack" is because I see from the inside how Disney works....my husband is a Disney employee and is currently in the gun barrell of Disney's cost reductions at the expense of being able to produce a quality news program.....the spin "we will reduce staff to provide quality programming"......huh???????

We all appreciate and make our own magic ...but we are also allowed our own opinions. Just because they are not YOUR opinions does not make them wrong....just different.

Thanks. But just to rebut: you claim that your "eyes were opened" (presumably to the evils of WDW) after a WDW ressie/AP mishap (which undoubtedly has everything to do with why EE is garbage), and then go on to say that you now love DL-- Yet this debate centered around the top-down, corporate misdirections of Disney as a whole, not the incidentals i.e. a screw-up at WDW which now leads you to renounce that resort and embrace DL more wholeheartedly. And thanks for clarifying, but we get it- you're AV's number one fan. Rest assured, none of us in the princess pack are vying for that position any time soon.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

G'Day Wick -

I believe you may have misunderstood my note....let me clarify.

After the December 2004 trip I was willing to finally look at Disney without the rose-colored glasses.....I found fabulous success and also decline. It does not mean I don't still love WDW. I AM still allowed to be a Disney fan....even if I look at the operations with a different perspective than you.

I am sorry our opinions are not the same....but I am willing to respect yours....even when we disagree.

 

[Wick]

I AM still allowed to be a Disney fan....even if I look at the operations with a different perspective than you.

I am sorry our opinions are not the same....but I am willing to respect yours....even when we disagree.

Who said you we'rent allowed be to a Disney fan?
Please, don't go to extremes just to make your premise seem more viable.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I apologize to you for all my shortcomings.

 

[raidermatt]

Originally Posted by JoeEpcotRocks
You complain about all the tie-ins and merchandising as if it were something new!! Walt himself was the master of tie-ins and cross promoting.

Agreed

Walt told the story first. And, yes, he was a master at figuring out ways to promote his stories and ideas.

That's very different from what happens today, where the creative teams are often asked to create something to fit a marketing goal or promotion idea.

The fact that two companies both have creative teams and marketing teams does not mean their process is the same. Everybody cross-promotes. Does that mean they are all Disney?

The issue is with how it's done.



Some here complain about the hyperbole of other posters and like to make snide quips about those posters.

Well, AV's last post shows how he responds to those who thoughfully disagree. Any comments on that post, or are we only going to get more "channeling Walt" quips?

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Thanks. But just to rebut: you claim that your "eyes were opened" (presumably to the evils of WDW) after a WDW ressie/AP mishap (which undoubtedly has everything to do with why EE is garbage), and then go on to say that you now love DL-- Yet this debate centered around the top-down, corporate misdirections of Disney as a whole, not the incidentals i.e. a screw-up at WDW which now leads you to renounce that resort and embrace DL more wholeheartedly. And thanks for clarifying, but we get it- you're AV's number one fan. Rest assured, none of us in the princess pack are vying for that position any time soon.

*DDP is a marketing tool that is severly dumbing down the once very good WDW dining.
*Corporate Disney is screwing the pooch (witness the whole Pixar debacle) but it doesn't change the fact that DL has improved things (good management) vs. WDW which hasn't (Meg Crofton).
*AV has lots of fans - even if we don't always agree with the hyperbole and sensationalism (afterall he is from Lalaland).

You can disagree with what is said about current Dsiney but it would be wise to carefully consider the facts. I was the biggest Disney apologist two years ago but as Disney destroys my personal 'sacred cows' I am able to see what has happened to those who realized these things based on their own losses earlier than me. Current Disney lovers will follow as their personal magical treasures bite the dust.

 

[mitros]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I love these "knock down drag out" threads.
Debate board? we don' need no stinkin' debate board!

 

[Wick]

Well, AV's last post shows how he responds to those who thoughfully disagree. Any comments on that post, or are we only going to get more "channeling Walt" quips?

As per the thoughtful disagreements- I welcome them! That's what this discussion is all about. That being said, since I started this thread I've called for tangible recent additions to WDW that keep people coming back. The responses were generally vague and relied primarily on a hope that things may somehow change or turn around at WDW- hardly a tangible. Is there any attraction, parade or whatever that keeps you going back that Disney has not somehow botched? That's all I was really getting at. Because if the naysayers can't even name an attraction or resort they find enjoyable, well I just don't see why they would want to go back. And if that's their position, that's okay too. The debates over EE or whatever were just side discussions.

 

[YoHo]

Is there any attraction, parade or whatever that keeps you going back that Disney has not somehow botched?

I have a really nasty Churro addiction, that why I keep going back.

 

[Another Voice]

… since I started this thread I've called for tangible recent additions to WDW that keep people coming back.

So your idea of a “discussion” is asking people to list where they agree with you? Funny.

To directly answer your question – no, there are no recent additions that keep me coming back.

I go because I like the Polynesian at night: the flickering of the torches, the lights of the boats reflecting off the water, the castle peaking through the trees on the islands. The ability to effortless travel between hotels and the Magic Kingdom, the boating, the beaches, the landscaping – I feel I am at a very different place from what I can experience anywhere else.

I go because walking through EPCOT Center still feels like the future to me (and without the wand it’s not an insult to my intelligence any more). The sleek buildings, the monorails gliding past, the monumental architecture – it’s the Jetson’s future we were promised. I enjoy that ability to have a real meal that’s more than a meal – the ability to actually feel I’m somewhere else – the sights, the smells, the tastes, nothing to remind me I’m in a typical restaurant.

I go because of friends and family, because we can spend quality time all doing the same thing, and because there’s enough variety that we can escape each other’s company. I go because I’ve been able to see my son’s reactions change just as I remember my changed – from a small boy interested in pretty lights and characters to an educated teenager able to speak to international cast members in their native language (okay, he’s only talking to the girls…education does have it’s limits).

I go because of forty years of the effort, talent and imagination that have been poured into the place that have not yet been overcome by fifteen years growing mismanagement, mistakes and plain disrespect for me and my family as guests.

I go because I remember a time when cast members were special, when the company invested two and half days in orientation instead of the four hours they get now. I go because I remember when shops had unique merchandise suitable for its location and not just another place to buy a Pirates DVD. I go because I remember when fine dining was fine dining, not a “character interaction and merchandise opportunity”: bad food is not made better by an actress in a polyester gown. I go because I remember when “Disney” wanted to be more than a brand name.


And that what really concerns me. I find more and more that I’m going in spite of what Disney is doing instead of because of what Disney is doing.

 

[EUROPACL]

Originally Posted by Wick
Is there any attraction, parade or whatever that keeps you going back that Disney has not somehow botched?.

Ok..I'll play....I like Splash Mountain, The Great Movie Ride (hate the name), The Beauty and the Beast stage show, Tower of Terror (needed a little more story work), MuppetVision 3D, It's Tough to be a Bug, I even like watching the Indy Stunt Show still and Fantasmic. That and a few minor things here and there.

 

[JPN4265]

 

[ChrisFL]

Is there any attraction, parade or whatever that keeps you going back that Disney has not somehow botched?

I still enjoy POTC, I think Fantasmic is good, Philharmagic is a fun 3D show and is relatively new and I still love seeing Wishes.

 

[dwaters]

Thanks AnotherVoice for posting a well-thought, well-written response.

I think that is one of the biggest strengths of WDW is that it takes you away. Once in the parks, there are no newspapers, TVs playing CNN, and very few clocks.
Main Street looks basically the same as when it opened, and I think people love that.
Back to EE (yet again)-- I came across a picture of the mountain taken from the bridge into AK's Asia and it really looks like a postcard from somewhere far away. Regardless of how you like the coaster, you have to admit the mountain really looks cool and adds to the beauty of the park. Even though it is fake, it's just not something most people see everyday.
Come to think of it- you don't see a giant tree, a huge sphere, a castle, a hotel with a monorail going through it, a 30 foot Buzz Lightyear (ASMovies).
Disney World is all about new and unique sights and experiences.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

*

You can disagree with what is said about current Dsiney but it would be wise to carefully consider the facts. I was the biggest Disney apologist two years ago but as Disney destroys my personal 'sacred cows' I am able to see what has happened to those who realized these things based on their own losses earlier than me. Current Disney lovers will follow as their personal magical treasures bite the dust.

Thank you - this was the point of my original post yesterday which lead to abuse. I too was a "don't give up the ship cheerleader" until I could no longer pretend to not see the decline. I have been on both sides of this debate and am willing to see both sides.....and am always sorry when someone else's bubble bursts. We ARE allowed to have our own opinions and should not be verbally abused here because they are different than yours.

As I said...and will continue to say....let's share experiences, opinions and our mutual love of Disney and PLAY NICE!

 

[jimmymac]

OK, I'm going to add my two cents here. I don't post often (I have more WDW trips than posts), but I thouigh I'd chime in here. There appear to be 2 quite divergent trains of thought running through here - call it the "AV" school and those who disagree with him / her (call that the "Princess Pack"). I have to admit I think the former has the more valid (if somewhat overstated) position. Reading through yesterday's postings, I see that Mouseaholic was kind of attacked because "her eyes were opened (presumably to the evils of WDW)... which undoubtedly has everything to do with why EE is garbage." Nowhere in that post were the words or acronyms "evil" or "AV" or "EE" mentioned. All he/she seemed to be suggesting was that everyone "play nice" and allow different opinions to be expressed. I see why "none of us in the Princess Pack are vying for that position (AV number one fan) any time soon." AV's major transgression, if I'm reading this right, is that while he's not saying the emperor is naked, he is saying that his new clothes are not only not new but getting kind of shabby. A few of my personal observations- in 2004, every light pole around the Boardwalk was decorated with light and garlands. There was a 25 or so foot tall Christamas tree outside BWI. MK was decorated to the hilt. In 2005, there was not a single light or garland around the lake - just around the resorts. The tree was large, but not as large as the year before. In 2006, the same non-decorations festooned the Boardwalk and the tree oustide BWI was about the same size as the one in my living room at home. MK is no longer decorated anywhere besides the axis along Main Street USA (hmmm, just oustide the camera range of the Regis and Kelly show?). The people on these boards who flatly state over and over that overall quality at WDW is not declining are not going to the same parks/ resorts that I am. I'm still a huge WDW fan - walking around WS after Illuminations at Christmas time is an experience that cannot be duplicated anywhere else for example. There is still an awful lot of magic at WDW - but to say that there has been no decline is, in my opinion, ignoring what is blatantly obvious

 

[ChrisFL]

OK, I'm going to add my two cents here. I don't post often (I have more WDW trips than posts), but I thouigh I'd chime in here. There appear to be 2 quite divergent trains of thought running through here - call it the "AV" school and those who disagree with him / her (call that the "Princess Pack"). I have to admit I think the former has the more valid (if somewhat overstated) position. Reading through yesterday's postings, I see that Mouseaholic was kind of attacked because "her eyes were opened (presumably to the evils of WDW)... which undoubtedly has everything to do with why EE is garbage." Nowhere in that post were the words or acronyms "evil" or "AV" or "EE" mentioned. All he/she seemed to be suggesting was that everyone "play nice" and allow different opinions to be expressed. I see why "none of us in the Princess Pack are vying for that position (AV number one fan) any time soon." AV's major transgression, if I'm reading this right, is that while he's not saying the emperor is naked, he is saying that his new clothes are not only not new but getting kind of shabby. A few of my personal observations- in 2004, every light pole around the Boardwalk was decorated with light and garlands. There was a 25 or so foot tall Christamas tree outside BWI. MK was decorated to the hilt. In 2005, there was not a single light or garland around the lake - just around the resorts. The tree was large, but not as large as the year before. In 2006, the same non-decorations festooned the Boardwalk and the tree oustide BWI was about the same size as the one in my living room at home. MK is no longer decorated anywhere besides the axis along Main Street USA (hmmm, just oustide the camera range of the Regis and Kelly show?). The people on these boards who flatly state over and over that overall quality at WDW is not declining are not going to the same parks/ resorts that I am. I'm still a huge WDW fan - walking around WS after Illuminations at Christmas time is an experience that cannot be duplicated anywhere else for example. There is still an awful lot of magic at WDW - but to say that there has been no decline is, in my opinion, ignoring what is blatantly obvious

Agreed, and I do have hope for the future, but its difficult to pinpoint anything specific overall, whether WDW is improving or not. There are good signs recently and there are still signs of the same Eisner-Era changes taking place.

I think its still a wait-and-see approach for me with Iger, Lasseter, etc. to see how things are going to be done going forward. I defintiely did not expect any immediate changes company-wide to happen, in fact that could be a bad thing. When a type of working enviornment is built up over several years, it takes time for the right kind of personnel to be put in place, etc.

I see the changes so far at Epcot pointing to a possible turnaround there, plus the Haunted Mansion and Space Mountain rehabs to be good signs as well at MK

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

If the Haunted Mansion rehab is similar to the rehab in DL - you guys will love it.....some VERY COOL elements were added to one of the WDW's favorites!

I'm looking forward to riding in November!

 

[G8RFAN]

jimmymac,

It's all my fault. Exactly 3 years ago, I found some M&M's and goldfish crackers between the bed and nightstand when we checked in at the CR and I didn't say anything and still gave them a 5 on the online survey because they gave me a castle view tower room upgrade for free. That started the whole chain reaction of giving stuff away but still giving you "less" since I made it known that our tolerance for imperfection is much greater than previously thought. You see, it wan't Eisner's fault after all. I'm truely sorry to everyone here.

 

[jimmymac]

For free? WOW! I didn't think WDW supplied anything without a charge! What color M&M's? Between you and me, I bet they're still there