Poly Tower decision and RIV restrictions

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Aw thank you for the kind comment ha ha, appreciate it. Agree - hopefully never be in the position to need to sell. Poor Riviera gets so much hate, it’s such a beautiful resort

We don't know what the resale prices at Riviera will be like once the resort is sold out. The current prices today don't tell us what the price will be once the only way to buy Riviera is on the resale market. I would just not worry about it, just enjoy your vacations. It's a really beautiful place, and imo, the nicest rooms on property.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Lots of us bought RIV though because we believe resale value isn’t the end all be all.

If I have to sell RIv and take a loss, I still end up with value from its use. And, I have said before, if someone is having to sell, not choosing, then most likely the loss they are taking is the least of their worries.

If I had to sell my resale contract there today, having three years of trips included, I’m pretty close to break even against what those trips would have cost with cash with a discount.

But, we are also not okay with just staying anywhere. Trips to WDW are too expensive to not be happy with the resort.

Death is my exit strategy. Not at all worried about resale prices.

 

[lowlight]

If you think RIV gets hate, you should be one that happens to mention that they really like SSR...

I am probably in the minority, but I can love a resort and not have any desire to stay there. For example, I stayed at OKW totally intending to hate it, but I loved it. The theming, the laid back vibes, etc. I will likely never stay there again, though. Same with SSR and AKV. For me, being in the Disney bubble means I’m 5-10 minutes from a park at any time. Not a bus ride, though I know for many they don’t care about that. To be fair, as a Riviera owner and lover, if they didn’t have the skyliner they would be right there with the aforementioned resorts- beautiful, but not for me on a Disney vacation.

There is a reason rental websites pay less for those points, there is less demand for them. It doesn’t mean they are bad in way, they just aren’t everyone’s cup of tea.

 

[@dvcdudes]

We don't know what the resale prices at Riviera will be like once the resort is sold out. The current prices today don't tell us what the price will be once the only way to buy Riviera is on the resale market. I would just not worry about it, just enjoy your vacations. It's a really beautiful place, and imo, the nicest rooms on property.

Totally agree

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Death is my exit strategy. Not at all worried about resale prices.

Literally laughed out loud. My coworker came into my office asking what was so funny. (But I did not mention I was browsing Disboards while working on a grant application, lol)

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

If Poly does indeed have no restrictions, those points will sell very fast in comparison plus it is a loved resort. I am scared of the point charts though and honestly a little confused on how it works with rebalancing the old points at Poly now. I beleive the bungalows would come into play too which I am sure I am missing something. To me if that noise is cleared up this resort will be the best selling "newer dvc" product in years.

I don’t think they’re allowed to rebalance anything outside of their own room type, so it’s unlikely they’ll change studio and bungalow pts.

I think this will sell fast regardless of restrictions or high point charts, but even at an average of 150k pts/month (and assuming it’s rumored 4mill pts is correct) that’s still over 2 years on sale, with little incentive to purchase the other 3 active selling resorts.

 

[tidefan]

I don’t think they’re allowed to rebalance anything outside of their own room type, so it’s unlikely they’ll change studio and bungalow pts.

I think this will sell fast regardless of restrictions or high point charts, but even at an average of 150k pts/month (and assuming it’s rumored 4mill pts is correct) that’s still over 2 years on sale, with little incentive to purchase the other 3 active selling resorts.

They are probably not... but... they did do that with the Treehouses at SSR

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

If you think RIV gets hate, you should be one that happens to mention that they really like SSR...

I think that a lot of the hate it has is from those that have either never stayed there or at least have not stayed there since the renovations and the fact that it always seems to be available at 7 months, part of which is because there are just so many points there...

That said, we really like SSR, IMHO it is the most underrated DVC resort, but I do understand that not many share my opinion. However, we always drive, which probably makes a huge difference there...

Lol I hear you. The refurbed rooms are so lovely but the grounds and amenities are just ok for us. I wouldn’t mind staying there again but strangely enough I think we prefer OKW of the 2 sprawling resorts; the vibe is more us.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

They are probably not... but... they did do that with the Treehouses at SSR

I’m not familiar exactly with the details, that was before my DVC time but didn’t they learn some lesson after something else that happened similarly and members strongly pushed back? @Sandisw come school us please

 

[tidefan]

Lol I hear you. The refurbed rooms are so lovely but the grounds and amenities are just ok for us. I wouldn’t mind staying there again but strangely enough I think we prefer OKW of the 2 sprawling resorts; the vibe is more us.

OKW is great too, especially with the 1 and 2 Bedroom units. Our only issue there is the lack of elevators in most buildings and that we prefer the pools and grounds at SSR. But you are so right, we all have our personal preferences and it's great there are so many different options.

I will say that SSR definitely feeds my Gideon's addiction though...

 

[tidefan]

I’m not familiar exactly with the details, that was before my DVC time but didn’t they learn some lesson after something else that happened similarly and members strongly pushed back? @Sandisw come school us please

Well, if you have unlimited time, you can go through the 90+ pages of this thread from back in 2018...

The 3rd bullet in the "Reallocations" section of post one talks about the Treehouses

https://www.disboards.com/threads/w...to-stop-revert-the-2020-reallocation.3726101/

 

[Sandisw]

I’m not familiar exactly with the details, that was before my DVC time but didn’t they learn some lesson after something else that happened similarly and members strongly pushed back? @Sandisw come school us please

They did a couple things that were borderline and ended up adjusting

They tried to increase the lock off premium with the 2020 charts. Meaning just adding points overall because technically lock offs are sold as their two bedroom equivalent. I think it was reversed because they knew that would a tough one.

For the 2022 charts, there were extra points created because of the 7 vs 5 seasons we now have.

Because of the way Easter can shift, it could great more points when it shifted from the highest season to a different season and the replacing dates didn’t keep it point neutral.

I think they were trying to use that as “normal” calendar shifts and owners pushed back. What they did was just readjust back so that all Easter weeks fall within two travel periods and it won’t happen again.

With the treehouses, the reallocated across the resort for stays after it sold and some feel that they shouldn’t have been allowed to do that.

I can’t find anything that definitely says they can’t when it comes for points chart for stays vs sales. They can’t sell more points than are declared but shifting across the entire resort to balance demand?

What we do know is that they have cleaned up this language in the new trust POS to make it clear that this type of movement counts as point neutral movements.

 

[Royal Consort]

I hear you about the walking (though I love CCV too much to pass it up). It’s one of the reasons we bought Guaranteed Weeks so that we wouldn’t need to worry about the walking. It ultimately really worked in our favor — CCV opening in one of those few years Thanksgiving wasn’t Week 47 allowed us to get a fixed week for undervalue, and the point chart changes in recent years made it so our weeks 44 and 47 are now cheaper than it costs to book the week, and the point difference for week 48 is only 3 points more. I’m kind of kicking myself for not getting a F&W week at RIV but we wanted to break the contracts into smaller ones so we could evenly pass them along to our kids someday if they wanted them.

FW were on the agenda and we would have purchased one at CCV if we were to buy. In the end we bought the FW at Riviera. The intention was to buy the AP to last 2 years worth of trips meaning that we wouldn't use the FW each year. In the end purchasing VGC scratched the same CCV itch.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

They did a couple things that were borderline and ended up adjusting

They tried to increase the lock off premium with the 2020 charts. Meaning just adding points overall because technically lock offs are sold as their two bedroom equivalent. I think it was reversed because they knew that would a tough one.

For the 2022 charts, there were extra points created because of the 7 vs 5 seasons we now have.

Because of the way Easter can shift, it could great more points when it shifted from the highest season to a different season and the replacing dates didn’t keep it point neutral.

I think they were trying to use that as “normal” calendar shifts and owners pushed back. What they did was just readjust back so that all Easter weeks fall within two travel periods and it won’t happen again.

With the treehouses, the reallocated across the resort for stays after it sold and some feel that they shouldn’t have been allowed to do that.

I can’t find anything that definitely says they can’t when it comes for points chart for stays vs sales. They can’t sell more points than are declared but shifting across the entire resort to balance demand?

What we do know is that they have cleaned up this language in the new trust POS to make it clear that this type of movement counts as point neutral movements.

Thank you for taking the time to briefly explain! So was I wrong in saying that they likely won’t rebalance the poly points to alleviate the overinflated bungalow pts? Assuming that all is normal the tower is part of PVB in entirety, that is. It seems like there isn’t anything written to stop DVD from messing around, just very aware and active members?

 

[Lorana]

They are probably not... but... they did do that with the Treehouses at SSR

Heh, I was just going to comment on that very thing here. While I am in the ROFR process of selling my SSR contracts, both are actually Treehouse Units, and so I had actually worked out the math to see that the Treehouse rebalance devalued my % ownership (even though it favored those who owned 2BRs). It got far less attention than the LO rebalance DVC tried to do a few years ago, though.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

I know others won't like it but I do hope they do some point redistribution across unit types to make the bungalows attainable for average members. Something closer to the cabins at CCV, maybe still a bit higher since it's the Poly and the uniqueness of being over the water.

 

[hilltopper152]

Thank you for taking the time to briefly explain! So was I wrong in saying that they likely won’t rebalance the poly points to alleviate the overinflated bungalow pts? Assuming that all is normal the tower is part of PVB in entirety, that is. It seems like there isn’t anything written to stop DVD from messing around, just very aware and active members?

Yeah I understood since points can be shared between the two, they could now balance points charts at the original property as it is one association. My assumption is they will not step on the mine and keep total points assigned to those original rooms the same. But if opening the box of mixing the two properties together, I thought they may take a stab at adjusting bunglaows. Maybe I am missing something but I cannot find anything that prevents the preservation of original charts other than the desire to not do so. I also think it will be strange for studios in the tower to suddenly have RIV point chart cost and most likely be smaller rooms versus the sister location. Grand kept the points the same at least but I know that situation is not exactly the same in many ways. @Sandisw usually has authority from me watching these threads but this may be a rabbit hole not worth pondering at this point. It did make me cautious when shopping for resale points. I ended up avoiding this and just buying more BLT.

 

[Lorana]

Thank you for taking the time to briefly explain! So was I wrong in saying that they likely won’t rebalance the poly points to alleviate the overinflated bungalow pts? Assuming that all is normal the tower is part of PVB in entirety, that is. It seems like there isn’t anything written to stop DVD from messing around, just very aware and active members?

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll just say this and link where you can read up on it if interested, and leave it at that: I am one of the owners who does believe the contract is explicit, as the # of points you own represents your % ownership of a specific unit, and therefore the allocation of points in a chart must equal the total points of the resort AND the % of points needed to book that particular unit for the entire year. While some might consider it irrelevant, because you still get 100 points to use, this is also the foundation of the arguments made against the LO point allocation and the "created" points with the 7-season chart, just those were easier to see why it was bad.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/the-vgf-2-pricing-thread.3838921/page-22#post-63597849
and
https://www.disboards.com/threads/2023-point-charts-released.3862115/post-63597719

To make Bungalows "cheaper" you have to make something else on the points charts "more expensive," and arguably DVC is not allowed to violate the contract terms when it comes to the average per night point cost if the resort had no seasons -- so they can't make studios more expensive to lower Bungalows. The only legitimate way would be to rebalance the Bungalow point chart so that some seasons were less expensive while making other seasons more expensive.

 

[hilltopper152]

I know others won't like it but I do hope they do some point redistribution across unit types to make the bungalows attainable for average members. Something closer to the cabins at CCV, maybe still a bit higher since it's the Poly and the uniqueness of being over the water.

My definition of regular owners must be pretty low ha I can afford a night or two or max. Maybe that is a me problem lol

 

[DonMacGregor]

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll just say this and link where you can read up on it if interested, and leave it at that: I am one of the owners who does believe the contract is explicit, as the # of points you own represents your % ownership of a specific unit, and therefore the allocation of points in a chart must equal the total points of the resort AND the % of points needed to book that particular unit for the entire year.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/the-vgf-2-pricing-thread.3838921/page-22#post-63597849
and
https://www.disboards.com/threads/2023-point-charts-released.3862115/post-63597719

I've always argued this as well. Your ownership interest is represented in points, but your deeded interest is legally defined, on the recorded deed, as a percentage of ownership in a specific unit. If the number of points associated with that unit were to change, then your percentage of deeded interest would change, and the recorded deed would no longer represent your ownership.