Poly Tower decision and RIV restrictions

[maui22]

It seems that you may not realize the lagoon was built specifically to prevent having any such commercial area abutting MK. Walt hated the development that came after DL opened, hemming it in on all sides, and he wanted to prevent that happening at WDW. He actively planned that approach to MK over open water, and if there’s anything we can say with confidence “Walt would not like,” it would be commercial development over or in the lagoon, getting in the way of the view of the castle.

DtD and DCA in California were built on the original DL parking lot (which I remember from my visits in the early 1960s). I think DtD is kind of “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em” reaction to that area of Anaheim.

Understand the reasoning. It was a much different time. Good ideas 50+ years ago are different than good ideas today.

I have to say, my memories of the Matterhorn Bobsleds from 1969 trip sure met reality when I rode it more recently. That was my favorite coaster for years because of the memories from a single ride back then. My body hurts just writing about riding it.

 

[intamin]

Understand the reasoning. It was a much different time. Good ideas 50+ years ago are different than good ideas today.

I have to say, my memories of the Matterhorn Bobsleds from 1969 trip sure met reality when I rode it more recently. That was my favorite coaster for years because of the memories from a single ride back then. My body hurts just writing about riding it.

Sad to say, 50 years of wear and tear on the ride and also on your own body probably didn't help :X

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

I'm not among the fans that readies pitchforks when changes at the parks are announced, but I would be pretty upset to see the Seven Seas Lagoon drained! I think it's a defining feature for MK at this point, and helps to give it that special sense of place.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

My thought is it would be filled in or a pier structure so people could walk, take monorail, or
maybe a shuttle directly between TTC and MK. There would be a direct access. For those with scooters they would no longer have to deal with the ferries or monorails. Those who can walk may prefer a 5-10 minute walk versus waiting for the ferry or monorail, loading, riding, and then unloading.

Maybe we are in the minority, but we would rather have dining/shopping and walking the exact same route used by ferry boats today.

It sounds like you'd just rather that DL be plunked down in FL!

I do like what they at DL - tore out the parking lot and put in another park and a nice shopping area but it's a different thing at WDW. There's no need to squeeze things into a less than a square mile. As mentioned the distance from the TTC to MK is much further than you seem to be considering.

At WDW they have their separate shopping area that is quite busy. Green space (or in this case mostly blue) is important too.

 

[maui22]

I'm not among the fans that readies pitchforks when changes at the parks are announced, but I would be pretty upset to see the Seven Seas Lagoon drained! I think it's a defining feature for MK at this point, and helps to give it that special sense of place.

I may have not written my thoughts clearly.

What I suggest is only a small portion to make a path between the area between TTC and CR resort have access. Almost the entire lagoon would remain.

I believe Walt wanted a resort built on the area I suggest. Back then, Walt may have envisioned everyone riding the monorail or ferry. Larger capacity today and will grow more with the planned MK expansion.

 

[maui22]

It sounds like you'd just rather that DL be plunked down in FL!

I do like what they at DL - tore out the parking lot and put in another park and a nice shopping area but it's a different thing at WDW. There's no need to squeeze things into a less than a square mile. As mentioned the distance from the TTC to MK is much further than you seem to be considering.

At WDW they have their separate shopping area that is quite busy. Green space (or in this case mostly blue) is important too.

Happy with WDW, but do appreciate DL getting updates far more frequent than WDW. (Or at least they did during the 2000s and parts of 2010s). I was shocked how well they use space.

In Florida, showing signs of not maintaining things as well. Probably because Florida weather wear and tear is something Walt didn’t fully understand so long ago.

I find the restaurants at MK to be mediocre at best. The planned MK expansion will increase capacity so things may get worse. I would rather have Disney lease area outside MK to some better restaurants/chefs who would need to have quality or go out of business. Disney grows profits and everyone attending MK gets more options.

I guess I am in the minority of people who prefer options and better restaurants.

 

[CarolynFH]

I may have not written my thoughts clearly.

What I suggest is only a small portion to make a path between the area between TTC and CR resort have access. Almost the entire lagoon would remain.

I believe Walt wanted a resort built on the area I suggest. Back then, Walt may have envisioned everyone riding the monorail or ferry. Larger capacity today and will grow more with the planned MK expansion.

Ah, yes, I definitely misunderstood. The topic of building just a walkway (with or without any other buildings/infrastructure) between TTC and CR has come up many times over the years. And I believe Walt envisioned a resort on that piece of land, too. But I’ve read that engineering studies have shown that land is unsuitable for building. And for a walkway alone the issue is a safe pedestrian crossing of the canal between Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake. The current World Drive underpass is pretty narrow, and I don’t know how feasible it would be to widen it enough to allow for a safe pedestrian walkway alongside the roadway. I wouldn’t be surprised if Disney has looked at that possibility.

 

[CanadianDVC2024]

I really want both Riviera and Poly Tower. I put a lowball offer on a resale Riviera at $105 for 175 points and to my shock it was accepted. Then less than 24 hours later the seller reneged before contracts were signed. I will eventually get Riviera but I will have to buy-in well below market value to make up for the restrictions. I think Disney has to know that the restrictions are hurting Riv sales both directly and resale and the two are linked because nobody will buy a Riviera direct knowing that the resale value will be low.

 

[Sandisw]

I really want both Riviera and Poly Tower. I put a lowball offer on a resale Riviera at $105 for 175 points and to my shock it was accepted. Then less than 24 hours later the seller reneged before contracts were signed. I will eventually get Riviera but I will have to buy-in well below market value to make up for the restrictions. I think Disney has to know that the restrictions are hurting Riv sales both directly and resale and the two are linked because nobody will buy a Riviera direct knowing that the resale value will be low.

I think they must be content with them because they added restrictions to both VDH and CFW.

 

[CanadianDVC2024]

I think they must be content with them because they added restrictions to both VDH and CFW.

Wishful thinking on my part that the restrictions go out the window lol

 

[intamin]

I really want both Riviera and Poly Tower. I put a lowball offer on a resale Riviera at $105 for 175 points and to my shock it was accepted. Then less than 24 hours later the seller reneged before contracts were signed. I will eventually get Riviera but I will have to buy-in well below market value to make up for the restrictions. I think Disney has to know that the restrictions are hurting Riv sales both directly and resale and the two are linked because nobody will buy a Riviera direct knowing that the resale value will be low.

Yeahhh idk about that, you have people like me and Sandi who have direct Riviera because we simply don't care about the resale restrictions.

I personally can't get myself to buy resale RIV because I don't want it limited to one resort for the next 46 years. I know if I had bought resale RIV I'd be like now I need to own more unrestricted points and essentially be paying double the dues each year. Maybe a small one if anything but that's it. On the other hand I wanted to own Riviera just because it's the only Epcot area resort that lasts past 2042 so it didn't really leave me that much choice. Should Disney ever build a Yacht club DVC I'll just hand over all of my bank accounts then.

 

[Royal Consort]

I think Disney has to know that the restrictions are hurting Riv sales both directly and resale and the two are linked because nobody will buy a Riviera direct knowing that the resale value will be low.

This myth continues to be perpetuated but I understand it seems to have face validity. The evidence has demonstrated that its price per point that drives purchasing, not restrictions. Riviera outsold VGF when it was cheaper; VGF outsold Riviera when it was cheaper. No one outside this small community is wringing their hands over the resale restrictions. I'm saying that in spite of wanting the restrictions gone.

 

[hilltopper152]

This myth continues to be perpetuated but I understand it seems to have face validity. The evidence has demonstrated that its price per point that drives purchasing, not restrictions. Riviera outsold VGF when it was cheaper; VGF outsold Riviera when it was cheaper. No one outside this small community is wringing their hands over the resale restrictions. I'm saying that in spite of wanting the restrictions gone.

I just cannot agree it is fully a non factor. Many people that do any research quickly realize the price is inflated for this product because of it having long standing value. The value has built in expectations of prices going up and that is propped up by demand plus a partial recovery amount if you were to exit. Resale restrictions hurt value and depreciate the product by $55 a point easy at times. A person has to financially blind to not see that but they can also ignore this and be happy. Most people ignore this and are happy. They just have to decide if they will be unhappy when they have to sell it in the future if that time comes. If I got 20 years out of it, I may not care.... If I had to sell in 6 years I would be very upset. Restrictions have caused me to ignore this resort completely and the main selling point for us anyways was the length of contract near epcot. BWV and BCV are still superior imo but too young to waste money on those resorts from our perspective.

 

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I posted something similar in another thread, but I'm in the process of looking into options and such for our first purchase and am considering resale as well as direct options. We plan on keeping the contract to term and handing it down, but even so resale pricing and restrictions are a consideration for us. Sometimes things happen, and being able to recoup some of our outlay is a big potential benefit if it is needed. I really like RIV and am hoping for some generous incentives this year similar to the AKV and VGF deals I missed before I was looking to own. But, if RIV and Poly2 are both on sale at the same time for a similar price and Poly2 is restriction-free, I'd probably take Poly2 due to the likelihood in my mind of it depreciating slower than RIV.

Even if unrestricted properties lose sway over time and relative value as the 2042 resorts age out of the system, that leaves me no worse off than if I'd bought a restricted resort in the first place. So, it seems like the unrestricted properties with longer remaining contract durations are a safer way to go, and if both Poly2 unrestricted and RIV restricted are available direct, I don't see myself going with RIV even though I like the property itself quite a lot.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I posted something similar in another thread, but I'm in the process of looking into options and such for our first purchase and am considering resale as well as direct options. We plan on keeping the contract to term and handing it down, but even so resale pricing and restrictions are a consideration for us. Sometimes things happen, and being able to recoup some of our outlay is a big potential benefit if it is needed. I really like RIV and am hoping for some generous incentives this year similar to the AKV and VGF deals I missed before I was looking to own. But, if RIV and Poly2 are both on sale at the same time for a similar price and Poly2 is restriction-free, I'd probably take Poly2 due to the likelihood in my mind of it depreciating slower than RIV.

Even if unrestricted properties lose sway over time and relative value as the 2042 resorts age out of the system, that leaves me no worse off than if I'd bought a restricted resort in the first place. So, it seems like the unrestricted properties with longer remaining contract durations are a safer way to go, and if both Poly2 unrestricted and RIV restricted are available direct, I don't see myself going with RIV even though I like the property itself quite a lot.

I think Poly2 will start a bit higher than RIV/AUL/CFW so at least $239 but a good chance it’ll be higher since it’ll likely go on sale when the prices increase annually anyway. But your point stands that the $15-$25/pt difference might not make enough to push you towards RIV.

Do you think you’ll purchase resale before RIV direct if Poly is restricted in some fashion? CCV is going for a very good price considering it’s still so new and has a lot of years left on its contract, relatively unrestricted, definitely worth some consideration, especially if you’re hoping to pass it on.

And actually, just to add to the conversation of resale value (not directly at you OP), CCV also is interesting because it’s only 2 yrs older than RIV, probably more universally liked with a very difficult home resort booking period, no longer in active sales, and still going for $120-$-130/pt on the resale market. Isn’t that roughly for what RIV is going for?

 

[intamin]

I posted something similar in another thread, but I'm in the process of looking into options and such for our first purchase and am considering resale as well as direct options. We plan on keeping the contract to term and handing it down, but even so resale pricing and restrictions are a consideration for us. Sometimes things happen, and being able to recoup some of our outlay is a big potential benefit if it is needed. I really like RIV and am hoping for some generous incentives this year similar to the AKV and VGF deals I missed before I was looking to own. But, if RIV and Poly2 are both on sale at the same time for a similar price and Poly2 is restriction-free, I'd probably take Poly2 due to the likelihood in my mind of it depreciating slower than RIV.

Even if unrestricted properties lose sway over time and relative value as the 2042 resorts age out of the system, that leaves me no worse off than if I'd bought a restricted resort in the first place. So, it seems like the unrestricted properties with longer remaining contract durations are a safer way to go, and if both Poly2 unrestricted and RIV restricted are available direct, I don't see myself going with RIV even though I like the property itself quite a lot.

I always tell people if you're okay with owning somewhere other than RIV and are making the choice as if you're picking between one or another you should probably pick the other resort. It is definitely the safer route to buy a non-resale restricted resort. It's even safer to buy resale over direct unless you have a scenario like this summer where direct VGF was as cheap as resale because the only thing you're probably losing are broker fees and closing costs.

And you guys are right, I know as a RIV owner should I ever have to sell these contracts I will take a loss if I have to sell them soon. I wouldn't say I've ignored that fact, I would say I've factored that into my cost and am willing to accept that in order to own where I want to stay which is predominantly near Epcot and god willing will continue to do so long past 2042.

 

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Do you think you’ll purchase resale before RIV direct if Poly is restricted in some fashion? CCV is going for a very good price considering it’s still so new and has a lot of years left on its contract, relatively unrestricted, definitely worth some consideration, especially if you’re hoping to pass it on.

And actually, just to add to the conversation of resale value (not directly at you OP), CCV also is interesting because it’s only 2 yrs older than RIV, probably more universally liked with a very difficult home resort booking period, no longer in active sales, and still going for $120-$-130/pt on the resale market. Isn’t that roughly for what RIV is going for?

For the first question - If Poly2 is restricted, my preference would be to buy RIV as I prefer access to Epcot to access to MK, so long as the price is right. As the plan for us is to hold for basically forever, the price difference between direct and resale isn't a dealbreaker as the difference doesn't end up being super significant when considering all costs at that time scale, but none the less significant incentives are what I'm hoping for at some point during the year. We're hoping to buy by September as we're planning a large multi-family trip for September '26 and would want to be able to book that with 11 month adv. in October.

For the second, I like the mechanics of CCV as far as the duration/points/etc. go for resale, however I live in the mountain west of the US, and we go to Yellowstone and similar national parks/forests regularly (several times per year), so the theming is kind of a miss for me since it's basically what we already experience often. Even so, it's definitely a contender.

 

[noacess]

For the first question - If Poly2 is restricted, my preference would be to buy RIV as I prefer access to Epcot to access to MK, so long as the price is right. As the plan for us is to hold for basically forever, the price difference between direct and resale isn't a dealbreaker as the difference doesn't end up being super significant when considering all costs at that time scale, but none the less significant incentives are what I'm hoping for at some point during the year. We're hoping to buy by September as we're planning a large multi-family trip for September '26 and would want to be able to book that with 11 month adv. in October.

For the second, I like the mechanics of CCV as far as the duration/points/etc. go for resale, however I live in the mountain west of the US, and we go to Yellowstone and similar national parks/forests regularly (several times per year), so the theming is kind of a miss for me since it's basically what we already experience often. Even so, it's definitely a contender.

If I recall, the skyliner from RIV to Epcot is about a 11 minute ride. Taking the monorail from the TTC to Epcot is about 15 minutes so I'd say both resorts are in the same ballpark distance to Epcot. I was originally going to buy RIV because I wanted to be close to Epcot but once I found out it was only a 4 minute difference, I decided to wait and see how things go with Poly2.

Either way it sounds like people love both resorts so I don't think there is a wrong choice from an enjoyment perspective.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

For the first question - If Poly2 is restricted, my preference would be to buy RIV as I prefer access to Epcot to access to MK, so long as the price is right. As the plan for us is to hold for basically forever, the price difference between direct and resale isn't a dealbreaker as the difference doesn't end up being super significant when considering all costs at that time scale, but none the less significant incentives are what I'm hoping for at some point during the year. We're hoping to buy by September as we're planning a large multi-family trip for September '26 and would want to be able to book that with 11 month adv. in October.

For the second, I like the mechanics of CCV as far as the duration/points/etc. go for resale, however I live in the mountain west of the US, and we go to Yellowstone and similar national parks/forests regularly (several times per year), so the theming is kind of a miss for me since it's basically what we already experience often. Even so, it's definitely a contender.

Ahhh yes, the real thing does overshadow the fantasy world of CCV. I kind of understand. We’re from the NE so lots great forest and similar vibes
but we recently toured it during Christmas and it was amazing. Warm Florida weather and palm trees just doesn’t give me the cozy Christmas feels but WL felt exactly right. We didn’t want to leave the lobby to head back to the parks haha literally bought a contract a week later And even though I just said we don’t get full Christmas vibes in Florida, we still love to visit during this time- Christmas in Disney is still Christmas in Disney. CCV is the perfect place to stay if you actually want it to feel like Christmas at home.

I’m crossing all my fingers that we get some great fire sale incentives for RIV this year for you (and for me, if I’m completely honest). Hopefully they try to move some of that remaining inventory before the tower goes on sale. Although, I have my doubts as they might not want to take away from CFW sales, but we’ll see. If the tower is unrestricted and priced at VDH pricing, I think DVC will basically kill any significant sales for RIV or CFW until the tower is sold out, or they make the incentives for those 2 resorts even better than what they had for VGF this past summer. That might be the way we get our fire sale.

 

[intamin]

If I recall, the skyliner from RIV to Epcot is about a 11 minute ride. Taking the monorail from the TTC to Epcot is about 15 minutes so I'd say both resorts are in the same ballpark distance to Epcot. I was originally going to buy RIV because I wanted to be close to Epcot but once I found out it was only a 4 minute difference, I decided to wait and see how things go with Poly2.

Either way it sounds like people love both resorts so I don't think there is a wrong choice from an enjoyment perspective.

The ride time is roughly the same but the skyliner is constantly loading compared to the monorail where the wait can be a good deal longer. I love both resorts *points to sig* but I don't think it's comparable.