Poly Tower decision and RIV restrictions

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

I own Riviera direct... none of this bothers me, doesn't really affect how I use my points. Nothing's guaranteed except your ability to use points to book rooms, that's it.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Now, what I would like is a point chart redistribution to make the bungalows more affordable. Like they did at SSR. I know some folks will say that DVC shouldn't be allowed to do that but it doesn't change me wanting that, lol. Would love to be able to stay in a bungalow.

 

[intamin]

Now, what I would like is a point chart redistribution to make the bungalows more affordable. Like they did at SSR. I know some folks will say that DVC shouldn't be allowed to do that but it doesn't change me wanting that, lol. Would love to be able to stay in a bungalow.

That would make me so happy lol. I would gladly pay cabin points for a bungalow. It’s close enough to the 2BRs at that point that I would pay the difference for some privacy and the view.

 

[cdirazonian]

wonder how long the thread and how mean-spirited people would be towards the complaints if DVC made opposite decision

I was really hoping for the opposite.
no real desire to stay in the tower bldg, nostalgia takes us ( me) to the longhouse side. I’m not really liking the look of the tower & I don’t think it’ll feel like poly to me if there.

When we’ve needed more room we’d book 2 studios and/or stay @ BWV/VGF in an 2 bedroom with other pts. I could always take my time booking there. In the times we went there was always something for 3-4 nts even with 6 months. In May bought a resale PVB to stay longer knowing (thinking) it’d be a separate association.

Now glad we did because I think we’ll need the 11 month window to get the PVB1 studios. IMHO I think the longhouse studios will be booking up faster when new buyers (or anyone) sees the high pt charts for 1 & 2 bedrooms, plus the longhouse studios looked like they might be a little bigger.

And I think PVB1 M/F‘s will go up with the addition of the tower attached to it. IDK why exactly, just a feeling I get looking at the mf of RIV & DLH recently.

 

[wiihoo888]

I was really hoping for the opposite.
no real desire to stay in the tower bldg, nostalgia takes us ( me) to the longhouse side. I’m not really liking the look of the tower & I don’t think it’ll feel like poly to me if there.

When we’ve needed more room we’d book 2 studios and/or stay @ BWV/VGF in an 2 bedroom with other pts. I could always take my time booking there. In the times we went there was always something for 3-4 nts even with 6 months. In May bought a resale PVB to stay longer knowing (thinking) it’d be a separate association.

Now glad we did because I think we’ll need the 11 month window to get the PVB1 studios. IMHO I think the longhouse studios will be booking up faster when new buyers (or anyone) sees the high pt charts for 1 & 2 bedrooms, plus the longhouse studios looked like they might be a little bigger.

And I think PVB1 M/F‘s will go up with the addition of the tower attached to it. IDK why exactly, just a feeling I get looking at the mf of RIV & DLH recently.

I get it….those studios are clutch! I’m a one bedroom kind of gal, but the size and layout of those rooms are pretty amazing

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

I wonder how long the thread and how mean-spirited people would be towards the complaints if DVC made opposite decision. Us Riviera owners bought with full knowledge of the restrictions, as did Poly1 owners purchase there knowing full well that it’d be only composed of studios and bungalows. But somehow I think they’d be just as vociferous if the decision didn’t go their way.

As I said before that I’m fine with the decision because I bought with the restrictions in mind. I do understand the complaints of my fellow RIV owners though because it does feel a bit of a bait and switch from DVC. I am happy that Poly owners can book there without needing to buy new points (and happy that I can use resale points there at 7 months).

But what worries me most about this is the implications of the restrictions on future availability for Riviera and how DVC doesn’t really seem to care that it may only affect this one resort, which I don’t see much discussion of here. It appeared that resale restrictions would be applied everywhere and all would face these availability issues as a result. If RIV will be the only one with resale restrictions, other resorts won’t face that same issue and it’s a problem that DVC won’t care to solve/realize is an issue.

Again at the end of the day it’s not going to bother me too much, as we’ve planned our purchases with the restrictions in mind. We have enough for a 1br at RIV and for other resorts since those are the room types typically available at 7 months. And if anything this decision saved us from buying Poly2 points, which we were definitely going to do if it were a new association. Happy to use my Saratoga and BRV resale points acquired at fire sale prices for the new tower!

I am a Poly owner and would make it work either way. But I am happy for one unrestricted association.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I was really hoping for the opposite.
no real desire to stay in the tower bldg, nostalgia takes us ( me) to the longhouse side. I’m not really liking the look of the tower & I don’t think it’ll feel like poly to me if there.

When we’ve needed more room we’d book 2 studios and/or stay @ BWV/VGF in an 2 bedroom with other pts. I could always take my time booking there. In the times we went there was always something for 3-4 nts even with 6 months. In May bought a resale PVB to stay longer knowing (thinking) it’d be a separate association.

Now glad we did because I think we’ll need the 11 month window to get the PVB1 studios. IMHO I think the longhouse studios will be booking up faster when new buyers (or anyone) sees the high pt charts for 1 & 2 bedrooms, plus the longhouse studios looked like they might be a little bigger.

And I think PVB1 M/F‘s will go up with the addition of the tower attached to it. IDK why exactly, just a feeling I get looking at the mf of RIV & DLH recently.

If they can increase dues by 5% at resort barely open, I definitely think you’re right and MF will go up.

 

[tom1944]

In a 1 bedroom lake view in early May and Late September maybe. It’s going to be tough to book there at the 7 month mark the rest of the year for the next few years I think.

I figure that anyone wanting to use SAP does so with the understanding that they have to be flexible.

My thoughts are there are 10 other resorts at WDW my SSR points can be used at. If 3 or 4 of those only have availability 10% of the time or less I can work with that.

Now if I thought I wanted to stay at a specific resort more often than not I would need to buy there. That is not the vision I have for the next 30 years.

 

[Paul Stupin]

We only do 1-bedrooms, so that should work nicely, thanks.

Will work nicely for us as well! We too only do one bedrooms, and visit in both early May as well as September to avoid the crowds. But I think they bamboozled Riviera owners, as well as any of us who bought direct points to use down the line at future resorts. It might not have been premeditated, but it was incompetent.

That said, I don’t think restrictions are going away either, and I believe sooner or later they’ll announce a new resort or two with resale restrictions that will make the direct points useful. With all this new investment in the parks, which are one of the few bright spots on Disney’s balance sheet, its not unreasonable to assume that they’ll invest in new accommodations as well. But there’s now an element of mistrust in DVC which I wish I didn’t have.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Now, what I would like is a point chart redistribution to make the bungalows more affordable. Like they did at SSR. I know some folks will say that DVC shouldn't be allowed to do that but it doesn't change me wanting that, lol. Would love to be able to stay in a bungalow.

The bungalows really should be a little cheaper. Last time I compared, a bungalow stay for my dates cost the same points as a VGF GV, which is beautiful, vastly bigger, and sleeps many more people comfortably. So I wouldn’t be surprised to see this happen, and I don’t think Disney would be overly concerned about legal issues with this; because of the complexity of the situation and difficulty determining to what extent any owner has been “damaged”, it is very hard to imagine any law firm taking the case on a contingent fee basis. Some grumbling on the DIS would probably be all they would get.

 

[sndral]

…our annoyance is with the lack of clarity and what we feel like was being mislead by those above. I’m happy for you you don’t feel like that. Maybe work on understanding it from someone else’s perspective.

DVC first sold OKW 32 years ago. For the next 28 years every new DVC resort entered the program under the same terms w/ resale owners able to use their points in the same way that original owners used them. Guides even used the resale value of DVC points as a selling point & to distinguish DVC from ‘other’ timeshares. Four years ago DVC threw all of that out the window when they opened Riviera, thus one can argue that every owner who bought in the 3 decades before Riviera opened was mislead & DVC devalued those existing owners resale value as well as future resale buyer’s ability to use their points, just like they mislead & devalued existing VGF owner’s points when they added BPK to VGF.
DVC has changed other things as well, like getting member perks, originally resale owners had the same perks as direct owners. Then they took away the ability of resale owners to use points for exchanges. Then they took away all member perks from resale owners. Each time existing resale owners were grandfathered in & not impacted directly - but those take aways made DVC less valuable to direct owners looking to sell & resale buyers.
They’ve also played around w/ how many points you had to buy to qualify as a direct member for perks - at one point it was as low as 25 or 35 direct points got you a blue card, now it’s 150 direct points.
The next big resort was supposed to be Reflections - they announced it, yet their plans changed. Poly was originally supposed to have new builds + a lazy river, yet their plans changed & they opted for a hotel room flip + Bungalows.
Given that history, the fact that DVC is changing the rules yet again isn’t a surprise to folks who’ve owned for awhile, for the new Riviera owners who are surprised by the fact that they’re still the only restricted resort on the east coast, you likely won’t be the only restricted east coast resort for long, but do expect more changes going forward. I wouldn’t be surprised if DVC follows other Timeshare companies & comes up w/ a ‘point washing’ scheme where restricted points can be made unrestricted via paying $$$, or DVC dumps a lot of unsold Riviera points into the Trust model they just surveyed owners about.
I don’t like that they’re always changing the rules, but it comes as no surprise when they do given their past actions.

 

[BeachClub2014]

DVC first sold OKW 32 years ago. For the next 28 years every new DVC resort entered the program under the same terms w/ resale owners able to use their points in the same way that original owners used them. Guides even used the resale value of DVC points as a selling point & to distinguish DVC from ‘other’ timeshares. Four years ago DVC threw all of that out the window when they opened Riviera, thus one can argue that every owner who bought in the 3 decades before Riviera opened was mislead & DVC devalued those existing owners resale value as well as future resale buyer’s ability to use their points, just like they mislead & devalued existing VGF owner’s points when they added BPK to VGF.
DVC has changed other things as well, like getting member perks, originally resale owners had the same perks as direct owners. Then they took away the ability of resale owners to use points for exchanges. Then they took away all member perks from resale owners. They’ve also played around w/ how many points you had to buy to qualify as a direct member for perks - at one point it was as low as 25 or 35 direct points got you a blue card, now it’s 150 direct points.
The next big resort was supposed to be Reflections - they announced it, yet their plans changed. Poly was originally supposed to have new builds + a lazy river, yet their plans changed & they opted for a hotel room flip + Bungalows.
Given that history, the fact that DVC is changing the rules yet again isn’t a surprise to folks who’ve owned for awhile, for the new Riviera owners who are surprised by the fact that they’re still the only restricted resort on the east coast, you likely won’t be the only restricted east coast resort for long, but do expect more changes going forward. I wouldn’t be surprised if DVC follows other Timeshare companies & comes up w/ a ‘point washing’ scheme where restricted points can be made unrestricted via paying $$$, or DVC dumps a lot of unsold Riviera points into the Trust model they just surveyed owners about.
I don’t like that they’re always changing the rules, but it comes as no surprise when they do given their past actions.

I've owned DVC since 2001 and have experienced all of the things you've listed in your post, and yet I will still be surprised if DVC abandoned the resale restriction strategy. I have no real issue with DVC changing the rules; it's their game; after all, we are just consumers of their product. What bugs me is the lack of clarity and seeming clumsiness in how they do it.

 

[sndral]

I've owned DVC since 2001 and have experienced all of the things you've listed in your post, and yet I will still be surprised if DVC abandoned the resale restriction strategy. I have no real issue with DVC changing the rules; it's their game; after all, we are just consumers of their product. What bugs me is the lack of clarity and seeming clumsiness in how they do it.

Resale restrictions bugged me the most & still do because I felt they changed the DVC product & likely would impact availability at all resorts at 7 months & I wasn’t even interested in buying Riv or staying there & always book at my home resorts at 11 months.
But the hoopla over Poly2 being the same association is gonna be small potatoes compared to the reaction that’ll occur when they announce their new Trust ownership program - see here https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-club-level-and-home-resort-survey.3935147/page-7#post-65191559 .

 

[BeachClub2014]

Resale restrictions bugged me the most & still do because I felt they changed the DVC product & likely would impact availability at all resorts at 7 months & I wasn’t even interested in buying Riv or staying there & always book at my home resorts at 11 months.
But the hoopla over Poly2 being the same association is gonna be small potatoes compared to the reaction that’ll occur when they announce their new Trust ownership program - see here https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-club-level-and-home-resort-survey.3935147/page-7#post-65191559 .

I just perused that thread; thanks for sharing it with me. I agree, this move, if it is what it seems to be, will certainly shake things up here on the DIS.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I'm definitely in the camp that thinks DVC will hang on to restrictions, based on the declining resale prices of the 2042 resorts alone. As those resorts start selling down in the $50's, as long as those points aren't subject to restrictions at brand spanking new resorts, selling points for those new resorts at 3 or 4 (or even 5) times the resale price of 2042 points will grow increasingly difficult. Sure, you won't have the 11-month booking window, but just having millions of bargain-basement points that could be used at the new resort could have a significantly cooling effect on new point sales. Heck, at some point if the very near future, VB an HHI might be down in the $25 PP range. Sure, those resorts are burdened by their dues, but the other 4 not so much.

 

[wiihoo888]

I just perused that thread; thanks for sharing it with me. I agree, this move, if it is what it seems to be, will certainly shake things up here on the DIS.

It’s an interesting prospect. DVC is getting more and more like Big Brother….Expect the unexpected

 

[wiihoo888]

I'm definitely in the camp that thinks DVC will hang on to restrictions, based on the declining resale prices of the 2042 resorts alone. As those resorts start selling down in the $50's, as long as those points aren't subject to restrictions at brand spanking new resorts, selling points for those new resorts at 3 or 4 (or even 5) time the resale price of 2042 points will grow increasingly difficult. Sure, you won't have the 11-month booking window, but just having millions of bargain-basement points that could be used at the new resort could have a significantly cooling effect on sales.

All starts clicking into place now that I’ve seen the details on the trust. Its all about DVC gaining more control of the properties. Resale will be specific to resort. Points would be usable anywhere. Sits better with me as long as the points/trust system works at 7 months and not at 11. But as with everything, we’ll find out when we find out

 

[DVCsloth]

Now, what I would like is a point chart redistribution to make the bungalows more affordable. Like they did at SSR. I know some folks will say that DVC shouldn't be allowed to do that but it doesn't change me wanting that, lol. Would love to be able to stay in a bungalow.

Good point, maybe that's part of the reason for the same association. That could help with direct sales as well if they can lower the bungalows to the CCV cabin range.

 

[DougEMG]

I'm definitely in the camp that thinks DVC will hang on to restrictions, based on the declining resale prices of the 2042 resorts alone. As those resorts start selling down in the $50's, as long as those points aren't subject to restrictions at brand spanking new resorts, selling points for those new resorts at 3 or 4 (or even 5) times the resale price of 2042 points will grow increasingly difficult. Sure, you won't have the 11-month booking window, but just having millions of bargain-basement points that could be used at the new resort could have a significantly cooling effect on new point sales. Heck, at some point if the very near future, VB an HHI might be down in the $25 PP range. Sure, those resorts are burdened by their dues, but the other 4 not so much.

Resale restrictions are not about stopping existing owners from booking at shinny new resorts. I doubt Disney cares who books what rooms.

Resale restrictions are about making people have FOMO so that they buy direct instead of resale.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Resale restrictions are not about stopping existing owners from booking at shinny new resorts. I doubt Disney cares who books what rooms.

Resale restrictions are about making people have FOMO so that they buy direct instead of resale.

True, but the fact remains that without any restrictions, you'd have people like me (and I do have plenty of direct points) who would gladly buy a few hundred 2042 points at $50 per point (or less) and use the living heck out of them at new resort XYZ, and would never buy any of those new resort points. Disney definitely doesn't care who books the rooms, but I'm guessing they might care if existing owners buy up tons of dirt cheap resale points to use at those new resorts and never buy a single new point from Disney. The add-on tool would have zero value in a non-restricted world. You only have FOMO if there's something to actually miss out on.

I'm not buying the idea that new every new member Disney sells points to will continue to be a clueless rube, unaware that the restrictions carry certain negatives, and won't be aware of and consider the resale market, and I'm not willing to dismiss the idea that DVC sells a not-so-insignificant number of points as add-ons to existing members (who most definitely will be aware that they can use their super cheap resale points over spending 5 times more for direct points at a new resort if unrestricted).