Poly Tower decision and RIV restrictions

[Brian Noble]

I wonder whether the decision that the new tower at the Poly will join the existing association will make Disney reconsider the restrictions at RIV:

I will bet mickeybars---and many of them---that the answer is no.

BPK was studios-only, which gives one an argument to combine with the existing GFV. Poly is the same thing, but in reverse. It is not hard to imagine the Powers That Be making those decisions while still thinking that a standalone resort with a sensible mix of villa types is, well, standalone.

If restrictions were going away, I think we'd've seen that in VDH, and I think we'd've seen them go away at RIV by now. DVD has plenty of data about how well it is selling and why.

I suspect the "It could change" language around PVB2 is probably more to do with limits on how unfinished timeshares in Florida can be marketed than anything else. Saying conclusively it is part of the existing development before they are legally allowed to do so could leave them exposed to liability for any PVB1 points they sell between now and then.

 

[Sandisw]

“Our plans right now are for the new tower to be part of the existing Polynesian resort“ is a stronger statement than “leaning that way.”
Chang left wiggle room in case those plans changed, but if they truly were still deciding then Chang’s answer would have been far less specific.
I’d speculate the same/different association decision is driven by 11 month booking priority since DVC cares about direct buyers, especially future direct buyers. Poly1, like all DVC resorts, likely is mostly owned by folks who bought it direct & I’m guessing those Poly1 direct buyers would be unhappy if they couldn’t book Poly2 at 11 months & that’s what’s driving the new association v. add on to Poly1 decision plus economies of scale will likely reduce MFs. VGF2 sold a lot of points to existing owners & I expect Poly2 will as well.
I’m not sure why owners of Riviera would be upset, they knew that resale restrictions were part of the deal when they bought, VDH is currently for sale & is restricted, I expect the FW cabins to be restricted as well. If DVC decides to do a quick flip & convert Aruba &/or Martinique @ CBR to DVC in the next couple of years I’d expect them to be added to the Riviera1 association w/ Riviera’s resale restrictions.

I posted in another thread but my guide just shared with me they were told they can not tell people it’s part of the tower…not what happened with BPK.

And, you are right,I should have said, strongly leaning that way…but it’s still not 100% and if I am buying PVB resale or resale in general based off brokers and sites reporting it’s a done deal, and DVD does go a different way, I would be upset.

 

[Brian Noble]

I suspect the "It could change" language around PVB2 is probably more to do with limits on how unfinished timeshares in Florida can be marketed

...and this seems to lend some evidence to that:

my guide just shared with me they were told they can not tell people it’s part of the tower

 

[Sandisw]

...and this seems to lend some evidence to that:

Why would it have been different than with BPK? That was announced day one.

 

[Brian Noble]

When was it licensed? It might have been earlier in the process, because the building was fully constructed from the beginning, and the DVC-ificiation was just a refurb. "It's DVC" is not necessary the same as "It's built."

Again, this is speculation, but because of the way laws work, things that don't make sense on the surface often have explanations in the details.

 

[wiihoo888]

“Our plans right now are for the new tower to be part of the existing Polynesian resort“ is a stronger statement than “leaning that way.”
Chang left wiggle room in case those plans changed, but if they truly were still deciding then Chang’s answer would have been far less specific.
I’d speculate the same/different association decision is driven by 11 month booking priority since DVC cares about direct buyers, especially future direct buyers. Poly1, like all DVC resorts, likely is mostly owned by folks who bought it direct & I’m guessing those Poly1 direct buyers would be unhappy if they couldn’t book Poly2 at 11 months & that’s what’s driving the new association v. add on to Poly1 decision plus economies of scale will likely reduce MFs. VGF2 sold a lot of points to existing owners & I expect Poly2 will as well.
I’m not sure why owners of Riviera would be upset, they knew that resale restrictions were part of the deal when they bought, VDH is currently for sale & is restricted, I expect the FW cabins to be restricted as well. If DVC decides to do a quick flip & convert Aruba &/or Martinique @ CBR to DVC in the next couple of years I’d expect them to be added to the Riviera1 association w/ Riviera’s resale restrictions.

Well, maybe I’ll be viewed as an irrational Riviera owner by some. We were told, at purchase, that any new construction would have the same restrictions. This is a new construction. Heck, its not even finished yet. I totally got why GF and the the DL guts and refurbs were not new associations. This one smacks of a bit of a bait and switch. It wouldn’t be as much of one if there was anything else in the pipeline that was completely new. The cabins are a refurb so I don’t understand why they would be a new association either.

I guess it just feels like DVC didn’t really think through the marketing strategy for this. Okay, its obvious there was no strategy in positioning this. I completely get why everyone else is excited about this announcement. I’m excited to see the rooms as well. But I would be straight up lying if I said I didn’t feel a bit bamboozled by their assurances on future new construction

 

[Sandisw]

When was it licensed? It might have been earlier in the process, because the building was fully constructed, it was just a refurb.

I am not sure…but maybe that is the difference.

 

[sndral]

I posted in another thread but my guide just shared with me they were told they can not tell people it’s part of the tower…not what happened with BPK.

And, you are right,I should have said, strongly leaning that way…but it’s still not 100% and if I am buying PVB resale or resale in general based off brokers and sites reporting it’s a done deal, and DVD does go a different way, I would be upset.

I’m a cautious type & agree buying Poly1 resale based on Chang’s statement assuming it’ll be the same association as Poly2 is still a gamble.

 

[Brian Noble]

We were told [...] that any new construction would have the same restrictions.

Rule One of Fight Club Timeshare Buying: Verbal representations do not matter. The only thing that matters is what is in the contract. And I'm sure the contract has plenty of wiggle room language given that it already says that RIV may or may not have them in the future.

buying Poly1 resale based on Chang’s statement assuming it’ll be the same association as Poly2 is still a gamble.

It's a gamble, sure, but from where I sit the odds have shifted markedly. I don't think it matters to wait, though--I doubt the resale market will suddenly surge on definitive news. PVB is already more or less in line with GFV/BLT

 

[sndral]

Well, maybe I’ll be viewed as an irrational Riviera owner by some. We were told, at purchase, that any new construction would have the same restrictions. This is a new construction. Heck, its not even finished yet. I totally got why GF and the the DL guts and refurbs were not new associations. This one smacks of a bit of a bait and switch. It wouldn’t be as much of one if there was anything else in the pipeline that was completely new. The cabins are a refurb so I don’t understand why they would be a new association either.

I guess it just feels like DVC didn’t really think through the marketing strategy for this. Okay, its obvious there was no strategy in positioning this. I completely get why everyone else is excited about this announcement. I’m excited to see the rooms as well. But I would be straight up lying if I said I didn’t feel a bit bamboozled by their assurances on future new construction

Ah, the devil is in the details isn’t it. One guide uses the phrase ‘any new construction’ another uses the phrase ‘any new resorts we construct’ & the meaning can be very different.
Part of my job was to communicate & I was astounded at how different what I thought I said was from what others heard/understood. People tend to hear that part of the message that supports what they want to hear & to discount/ignore that part of the message that doesn’t IME.

 

[wiihoo888]

Rule One of Fight Club Timeshare Buying: Verbal representations do not matter. The only thing that matters is what is in the contract. And I'm sure the contract has plenty of wiggle room language given that it already says that RIV may or may not have them in the future.


It's a gamble, sure, but from where I sit the odds have shifted markedly. I don't think it matters to wait, though--I doubt the resale market will suddenly surge on definitive news. PVB is already more or less in line with GFV/BLT

Lol at that analogy! And I totally get it. Just saying the emotional reaction part out loud. And it does feel like we were hoodwinked. Legally? No. Intentionally? Probably not, at least at the time. All the same? A bit bamboozled

 

[wiihoo888]

Ah, the devil is in the details isn’t it. One guide uses the phrase ‘any new construction’ another uses the phrase ‘any new resorts we construct’ & the meaning can be very different.

It was definitely construction. I’m not saying it was intentionally misleading us. Just trying to convey how this all feels right now. Think it may come off as another Riviera owner trying to be special, cuz somehow we have gained that rep. That isn’t it at all. It was just an assumption based on what we were told

 

[aceshigh73]

Rule One of Fight Club Timeshare Buying: Verbal representations do not matter. The only thing that matters is what is in the contract. And I'm sure the contract has plenty of wiggle room language given that it already says that RIV may or may not have them in the future.


It's a gamble, sure, but from where I sit the odds have shifted markedly. I don't think it matters to wait, though--I doubt the resale market will suddenly surge on definitive news. PVB is already more or less in line with GFV/BLT

Rule 2 of Timeshares: Sales people are not your friends and are experts in "Slight-of-Tongue".

 

[Brian Noble]

It's not always intentional, because communication is hard. Buyers want to believe things that will be there that are not there. Some sales agents will exploit that, but more often it's just a matter of what I say is not exactly what someone hears.

 

[wiihoo888]

Rule 2 of Timeshares: Sales people are not your friends and are experts in "Slight-of-Tongue".

Once again, I don’t know if this was even intentionally misleading. It was what I was told waaaay back when I bought my initial contract.

Please don’t get me wrong. I adore my home resort very much still. It just feels a certain sort of way

 

[sndral]

It was definitely construction. I’m not saying it was intentionally misleading us. Just trying to convey how this all feels right now. Think it may come off as another Riviera owner trying to be special, cuz somehow we have gained that rep. That isn’t it at all. It was just an assumption based on what we were told

I’d likely feel the same way if I’d bought Riviera irrespective of the actual words the guide used. My feeling is that the resale restrictions devalue all DVC resales & tarnish the DVC image, making it more like not to be trusted timeshares v. different from other timeshares.

 

[aceshigh73]

I’d likely feel the same way if I’d bought Riviera irrespective of the actual words the guide used. My feeling is that the resale restrictions devalue all DVC resales & tarnish the DVC image, making it more like not to be trusted timeshares v. different from other timeshares.

When we toured Riviera and VGF in August, I knew about the resale restrictions but didnt let on to it. Never once did a guide bring up the restrictions when he was trying to do a comparison of the 2 direct options.... And we did a very long tour of both resorts. We did ask about Poly back then, and his opinion/guess was same association because of how they did Animal Kingdom and VGF and that the only reason CCV and BRV were separate was the amount of time in between the associations. Kinda makes sense, but who knows at this point.....

 

[TheDailyMoo]

I think at this point DVC is painting themselves into a corner and it could all come back to bite them in the rear if they don’t tread carefully. This almost smacks of too many cooks in the kitchen or no cohesive plan from executive to executive. They really should come up with a solid plan and make it known in very clear terms which direction DVC is headed. And then STOP CHANGING COURSE. If Disneys main business model was pissing off their customer base then the stock would be at all time highs!

 

[wiihoo888]

When we toured Riviera and VGF in August, I knew about the resale restrictions but didnt let on to it. Never once did a guide bring up the restrictions when he was trying to do a comparison of the 2 direct options.... And we did a very long tour of both resorts. We did ask about Poly back then, and his opinion/guess was same association because of how they did Animal Kingdom and VGF and that the only reason CCV and BRV were separate was the amount of time in between the associations. Kinda makes sense, but who knows at this point.....

Yeah, they don’t bring it up to anyone unless you ask. I did based on it being brough up in multiple forums. Once again, this was way back during initial sales, before Poly 2 was even on the horizon. Kinda just went on that same assumption since then

 

[wiihoo888]

I think at this point DVC is painting themselves into a corner and it could all come back to bite them in the rear if they don’t tread carefully. This almost smacks of too many cooks in the kitchen or no cohesive plan from executive to executive. They really should come up with a solid plan and make it known in very clear terms which direction DVC is headed. And then STOP CHANGING COURSE. If Disneys main business model was pissing off their customer base then the stock would be at all time highs!

BINGO!!! And this is my whole point. Their positioning on marketing strategy is really lacking a whole lot. Well, that is if any cohesive strategy truly exists. Not terribly good PR