Poly - hmmm

[nd43]

I must admit, the Poly DVC has me pretty confused on the DVC strategy.

1- the bungalows have a point cost that must exclude the vast majority of DVC owners. Like a grand villa, but they invested so much in them it just does not make sense. Grand villas at least used the general structures of the underlying DVC property. So they poured money into a product most cannot use.

2- with only studios, they created an entire DVC of "nicer" hotel rooms. I realize studios are a key part of DVC but to make that the only real option for most owners? Strange.

3- they built all those studios "on the cheap" by reusing existing structures but at $160 per point priced it like a total premium new property. They went cheap on the product most will use and poured money into a product almost no one can afford point wise. It just feels like a raw deal to me? The margin on this DVC must be off the charts for them.

4- they built so many studios, it would appear getting one at 7 months will not be difficult. Given it is the only real option at this DVC point wise, why own there? You could get the main product there using any DVC points. I thought it would be bungalows as the draw but they are so expensive point wise a very small percentage will own there for that reason.

5- you could try ajoining studios if you wanted more room at twice the point cost but that setup will not give you a kitchen or table to eat at and just two real beds and will give you 4 showers with two pull puts where you still need to share the room to sleep more then 4. A somewhat bizarre setup to me.

The whole thing just appears strange to me. After BLT and VGF, I thought DVC had a certain strategy for the deluxe resorts on the monorail but this one just appears totally off from a sales perspective.

Perhaps there are just a ton of studio people in DVC and this is their monorail resort of choice (even though owning there appears optional to me - I think cheaper resort points would give them the same access).

It is a great resort and I totally understand people that love it for that reason. The DVC at this resort, however, appears to be th strangest property in the DVC system. I guess Disney will find out if it works for people. Some times "different" can attract a new audience.

My real fear is DVC is "stuck" with a very high point $ cost and are "shrinking" DVC rooms so they can lower point usage amounts to make a one week stay appear "reasonable" as a buyin cost at $160 per pt. That would stink.

 

[coastalhh]

And they remodeled the entire lobby and the poly cash hotel building and grounds all on the DVC owners dime. That's where your 160 went for the most part imo

 

[disneynutz]

Disney is marketing DVC at the Poly to people who don't do internet and have no idea what they are buying. They will sell out, it may take a little longer but they will make a ton of money and that is what business is all about.

Bill

 

[djohn06]

Disney is marketing DVC at the Poly to people who don't do internet and have no idea what they are buying. They will sell out, it may take a little longer but they will make a ton of money and that is what business is all about. Bill

I agree. They are banking the novice buyer for the most part!

 

[Minniesgal]

I must admit, the Poly DVC has me pretty confused on the DVC strategy. 1- the bungalows have a point cost that must exclude the vast majority of DVC owners. Like a grand villa, but they invested so much in them it just does not make sense. Grand villas at least used the general structures of the underlying DVC property. So they poured money into a product most cannot use. 2- with only studios, they created an entire DVC of "nicer" hotel rooms. I realize studios are a key part of DVC but to make that the only real option for most owners? Strange. 3- they built all those studios "on the cheap" by reusing existing structures but at $160 per point priced it like a total premium new property. They went cheap on the product most will use and poured money into a product almost no one can afford point wise. It just feels like a raw deal to me? The margin on this DVC must be off the charts for them. 4- they built so many studios, it would appear getting one at 7 months will not be difficult. Given it is the only real option at this DVC point wise, why own there? You could get the main product there using any DVC points. I thought it would be bungalows as the draw but they are so expensive point wise a very small percentage will own there for that reason. 5- you could try ajoining studios if you wanted more room at twice the point cost but that setup will not give you a kitchen or table to eat at and just two real beds and will give you 4 showers with two pull puts where you still need to share the room to sleep more then 4. A somewhat bizarre setup to me. The whole thing just appears strange to me. After BLT and VGF, I thought DVC had a certain strategy for the deluxe resorts on the monorail but this one just appears totally off from a sales perspective. Perhaps there are just a ton of studio people in DVC and this is their monorail resort of choice (even though owning there appears optional to me - I think cheaper resort points would give them the same access). It is a great resort and I totally understand people that love it for that reason. The DVC at this resort, however, appears to be th strangest property in the DVC system. I guess Disney will find out if it works for people. Some times "different" can attract a new audience. My real fear is DVC is "stuck" with a very high point $ cost and are "shrinking" DVC rooms so they can lower point usage amounts to make a one week stay appear "reasonable" as a buyin cost at $160 per pt. That would stink.

I totally disagree with the idea studios will be open at 7 months and that cheaper points will get good access.

Why on earth would anyone pay $160 a point for Poly points then go use them at another resort when most other resorts could be bought cheaper. I'm of the opinion Poly points will be light by Poly fans who want to use them to stay there. I see limited trading out meaning limited ability to trade in.

 

[z28wiz]

I totally disagree with the idea studios will be open at 7 months and that cheaper points will get good access. Why on earth would anyone pay $160 a point for Poly points then go use them at another resort when most other resorts could be bought cheaper. I'm of the opinion Poly points will be light by Poly fans who want to use them to stay there. I see limited trading out meaning limited ability to trade in.

A well versed person wouldn't trade out, but like Bill stated most buyers will be novices. Those novices will most likely trade out after their first stay to try out the other resorts.

 

[Msmithmd]

I totally disagree with the idea studios will be open at 7 months and that cheaper points will get good access. Why on earth would anyone pay $160 a point for Poly points then go use them at another resort when most other resorts could be bought cheaper. I'm of the opinion Poly points will be light by Poly fans who want to use them to stay there. I see limited trading out meaning limited ability to trade in.

People (some extremely insistent) said the same thing about BLT and VGF.

No question that for the first few years it will be difficult. But remember that the large majority of DVC members aren't the frequent readers or contributors to Disboards.

This large number of folks don't necessarily operate in the most cost-efficient manner with their points. Which is fine- those are their points after all- but thinking all or most of the new Poly members will consistently book their home resort prior to seven months won't be an accurate assumption. Some of them will decide to go on a cruise. Some of them will go to AKV because their kid wants to see the giraffes, or go to Aulani, or Disneyland, or RCI, etcetera.

There will be availability at seven months. How much remains to be seen. Like the other resorts, count on the standard views to book first and be tough to get. But I have no hesitation saying that I will be staying more than once at PVB without owning a single point there.

 

[nd43]

People (some extremely insistent) said the same thing about BLT and VGF.

No question that for the first few years it will be difficult. But remember that the large majority of DVC members aren't the frequent readers or contributors to Disboards.

This large number of folks don't necessarily operate in the most cost-efficient manner with their points. Which is fine- those are their points after all- but thinking all or most of the new Poly members will consistently book their home resort prior to seven months won't be an accurate assumption. Some of them will decide to go on a cruise. Some of them will go to AKV because their kid wants to see the giraffes, or go to Aulani, or Disneyland, or RCI, etcetera.

There will be availability at seven months. How much remains to be seen. Like the other resorts, count on the standard views to book first and be tough to get. But I have no hesitation saying that I will be staying more than once at PVB without owning a single point there.

The only thing I would add to this as to why I think Poly will have larger then usual availability:

1- There are tons of rooms of the exact same type (360 I think?)
2- If a person wants a regular 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom, they need to trade out

#2 is completely unique to Poly. A lot of new DVC people think a studio will work when their kids are small, etc. Once they try a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom, it is hard for them to go back. For the Poly, this means trading out or paying twice the points for a connecting room (which, when you double the point cost is a lot more then many 1 bedrooms on property) that does not provide the same benefits as a simple one bedroom anywhere else on property (full kitchen, table, etc.).

I realize is it just an opinion and I might be totally wrong, but I think Poly will have amble access. I think it will not be hard to get even when fully sold out given #1 & #2.

We purchased at VGF and have stayed at AKL and are going to stay at WLV. To us, DVC gives us the opportunity to try new resorts. We loved our two stays a VGF, however, we like new experiences as well. Poly, given its monotype room structure, will drive this even more in my opinion.

 

[Missyrose]

I totally disagree with the idea studios will be open at 7 months and that cheaper points will get good access.

Why on earth would anyone pay $160 a point for Poly points then go use them at another resort when most other resorts could be bought cheaper. I'm of the opinion Poly points will be light by Poly fans who want to use them to stay there. I see limited trading out meaning limited ability to trade in.

In addition to what nd43 said below, I too believe a large chunk of Poly buyers will be complete DVC novices. And a good number of them will start to see (after a stay or two at the Poly) that staying in a studio in another resort could net them an extra night or two simply because of the differences in point charts. And that will start to free up availability.

I also think having just 72 lake view studios works to non-Poly owners' advantage. Most people probably don't want to spend the extra points of an already expensive studio on upgrading the view, so having nearly 300 of the cheaper-priced view studios makes it easier for non-Poly owners to get in there.

The only thing I would add to this as to why I think Poly will have larger then usual availability:

1- There are tons of rooms of the exact same type (360 I think?)
2- If a person wants a regular 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom, they need to trade out

#2 is completely unique to Poly. A lot of new DVC people think a studio will work when their kids are small, etc. Once they try a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom, it is hard for them to go back. For the Poly, this means trading out or paying twice the points for a connecting room (which, when you double the point cost is a lot more then many 1 bedrooms on property) that does not provide the same benefits as a simple one bedroom anywhere else on property (full kitchen, table, etc.).

I realize is it just an opinion and I might be totally wrong, but I think Poly will have amble access. I think it will not be hard to get even when fully sold out given #1 & #2.

We purchased at VGF and have stayed at AKL and are going to stay at WLV. To us, DVC gives us the opportunity to try new resorts. We loved our two stays a VGF, however, we like new experiences as well. Poly, given its monotype room structure, will drive this even more in my opinion.

 

[AnnaS]

Also just thinking out loud - many excellent points here.

Studios popular/first to book & even though we/many enjoy the full kitchen, most DVC members do not cook in?

 

[chalee94]

1- the bungalows have a point cost that must exclude the vast majority of DVC owners. Like a grand villa, but they invested so much in them it just does not make sense. Grand villas at least used the general structures of the underlying DVC property. So they poured money into a product most cannot use.

4- they built so many studios, it would appear getting one at 7 months will not be difficult. Given it is the only real option at this DVC point wise, why own there? You could get the main product there using any DVC points. I thought it would be bungalows as the draw but they are so expensive point wise a very small percentage will own there for that reason.

not sure these go together.

if most owners are booking studios and most bungalows are too expensive, then the studios should be packed at 7 months out, but the bungalows might generally be available (if also too expensive for other DVC owners to want to book on a regular basis.)

DVC will then be able to pull more bungalows for cash use (or even possibly "discount" trades for RCI timeshare owners).

 

[SpaceMountain77]

1- the bungalows have a point cost that must exclude the vast majority of DVC owners. Like a grand villa, but they invested so much in them it just does not make sense. Grand villas at least used the general structures of the underlying DVC property. So they poured money into a product most cannot use.

3- they built all those studios "on the cheap" by reusing existing structures but at $160 per point priced it like a total premium new property. They went cheap on the product most will use and poured money into a product almost no one can afford point wise. It just feels like a raw deal to me? The margin on this DVC must be off the charts for them.

5- you could try ajoining studios if you wanted more room at twice the point cost but that setup will not give you a kitchen or table to eat at and just two real beds and will give you 4 showers with two pull puts where you still need to share the room to sleep more then 4. A somewhat bizarre setup to me.

1- Although I have not stayed in an AKV or a VGF Grand Villa, I have never felt as though my maintenance fees were directly supporting them. It has been my perception that my fees are supporting the resort's general maintenance and grounds. However, to me, PVB is bothersome because I would feel as though my fees would be largely supporting the bungalows, which I could not afford to book.

3- I purchased VGF at $145 per point and believe the villas have a wow factor. Points for Disney's PVB are $15 more and the rooms are certainly nice, but seem vanilla.

5- This is truly an excellent point. Two adjoining cash rooms, at a deluxe resort, would give you 4 queen-sized beds and 2 day beds. Personally, I do not see the value of an adjoining studio because of the reasons you have identified.

 

[drusba]

The bungalows are as you mention at such a high point cost that most purchasers there and even other DVC members cannot afford to use them. Nevertheless, they will get some use, likely high demand first two weeks of Dec, time during Oct, time around Thanksgiving, NYE to early Jan, time around July 4 and Memorial Day, and probably during the rest of the year but mainly for short two to three night stays. But undoubtedly there will be many openings during the year that members will not fill.

Personally, I believe that was planned. Disney does not care whether the members use them. Disney cares that the members buy the points applicable to them so it recovers its building costs and makes a profit. All those points applicable to the bungalows can be sold to all those purchasers who can afford only the points needed for studios. Result: Disney effectively sells the bungalows and recover its building costs and makes a profit from the sales. Then, it will get to rent those bungalows to the public at a much higher percentage than any other DVC rooms on site. To entice renters, it can offer deals that including discount rental prices, and packages with tickets and perks such as access to concierge services at Poly. It gets to keep almost all that rental income as profit because it has to pay only a small percentage of it to offset dues of the members as breakage income and all the costs of maintaining and repairing the bungalows will be paid for out of dues paid by all those members who could afford only the points necessary to get a studio.

That also means that by the time the resort sells out, the demand for the studios will greatly exceed supply becuase the members who purchased all those points applicable to the bungalows will be trying to get only studios the same as all those purchasers who bought all the points applicable to the studios. Result: though studios may be open many times of year at 7 months out, they are likely to be gone at 7 months out during high demand times like most of the times during the last quarter of the year.

The studio only concept for most of Poly may not fit into the concept of a normal DVC resort, but it will likely mean it will be a best seller. When you combine price per point and points needed per night, the place costs way too much for the target purchasers to be able to afford two bedrooms. Disney has, with combination of price per point and points per night, effectively raised the price to buy DVC at a new resort by about 60% during the last four years while inflation has been very low, and even the older resorts have gone up 50%. Studios have always been the higher demanded rooms, but with VGF and its prices and point costs, they have became almost the only demanded rooms. Poly is a recognition of and a solution to that issue while Disney still gets to raise prices and points per night to make a greater profit. The studios are large, have nice bathrooms, and those members needing a bigger unit to house the number of occupants for a 2BR can do so by buying enough points for two studios, meaning much less than what it would cost if there were 2BRs.

 

[dizfan]

3- I purchased VGF at $145 per point and believe the villas have a wow factor. Points for Disney's PVB are $15 more and the rooms are certainly nice, but seem vanilla.

I don't believe anyone has a time machine to travel back to the days of VGF for $145 (BLT for $90's, VGC for $80's, etc). People looking to buy direct have the choice of PVB for $160 (non-existing owners $165) and VGF for $185. If people decide to buy VGF for $185/pt, DVD is doing a good job. At some point, they could raise VGF for $200/pt and keep PVB for $165. PVB looks like a bargain. (For those who complain about VGF availability at 11 months, just wait until it's sold out.)

People have the choice of resale and yet DVD sells over 2 million points a year each year. Past doesn't guarantee future success, but DVD has a good track record.

5- This is truly an excellent point. Two adjoining cash rooms, at a deluxe resort, would give you 4 queen-sized beds and 2 day beds. Personally, I do not see the value of an adjoining studio because of the reasons you have identified.

I agree this isn't for everyone, but IMHO there is actually a need for accommodations like this.

When we invited guests, they are generally 40+ years of age. We want our own room and do not want them sleeping on a pull out. Additionally, we want two bathrooms. Two studios can be a half mile apart at some resorts. That leaves us with the choice of compromising on our wants or booking a 2BR, which costs more points. When we have guests, generally we all eat out, so the kitchen is a waste. I do not pretend that we are the norm for WDW. Simply pointing out there are situations where these studios are better fits than 2BR units at other resorts (which may or may not be more point expensive than 2 PVB studios).

 

[SpaceMountain77]

I don't believe anyone has a time machine to travel back to the days of VGF for $145 (BLT for $90's, VGC for $80's, etc). People looking to buy direct have the choice of PVB for $160 (non-existing owners $165) and VGF for $185. If people decide to buy VGF for $185/pt, DVD is doing a good job. At some point, they could raise VGF for $200/pt and keep PVB for $165. PVB looks like a bargain. (For those who complain about VGF availability at 11 months, just wait until it's sold out.)

People have the choice of resale and yet DVD sells over 2 million points a year each year. Past doesn't guarantee future success, but DVD has a good track record.

Seriously? This response has nothing to do with my post. I simply stated that I paid less and got, what I believe, is a greater wow factor.

 

[dizfan]

Seriously? This response has nothing to do with my post. I simply stated that I paid less and got, what I believe, is a greater wow factor.

I was not trying to offend anyone.

The thread is questioning PVB decisions. I was trying to point out that anyone buying today faces a different decision.

Off Topic, I think you got a great deal at a great resort.

Back to everyone questioning PVB...

 

[LisaS]

Personally, I believe that was planned. Disney does not care whether the members use them. Disney cares that the members buy the points applicable to them so it recovers its building costs and makes a profit. All those points applicable to the bungalows can be sold to all those purchasers who can afford only the points needed for studios. Result: Disney effectively sells the bungalows and recover its building costs and makes a profit from the sales. Then, it will get to rent those bungalows to the public at a much higher percentage than any other DVC rooms on site. To entice renters, it can offer deals that including discount rental prices, and packages with tickets and perks such as access to concierge services at Poly. It gets to keep almost all that rental income as profit because it has to pay only a small percentage of it to offset dues of the members as breakage income and all the costs of maintaining and repairing the bungalows will be paid for out of dues paid by all those members who could afford only the points necessary to get a studio.

I agree. Brilliant move on Disney's part assuming they are successful in renting the bungalows out for cash. Given how much of the rental income they get to keep and how little will go to offset the dues for PVB owners, it is very unfair to the owners -- they will be reimbursing Disney twice over for the construction costs and will pay for the ongoing maintenance of those bungalows.

That also means that by the time the resort sells out, the demand for the studios will greatly exceed supply because the members who purchased all those points applicable to the bungalows will be trying to get only studios the same as all those purchasers who bought all the points applicable to the studios. Result: though studios may be open many times of year at 7 months out, they are likely to be gone at 7 months out during high demand times like most of the times during the last quarter of the year.

Again, I agree. With the bungalows out of play for most PVB owners, all of those points will be competing for too few studios.

 

[Msmithmd]

The bungalows are as you mention at such a high point cost that most purchasers there and even other DVC members cannot afford to use them. Nevertheless, they will get some use, likely high demand first two weeks of Dec, time during Oct, time around Thanksgiving, NYE to early Jan, time around July 4 and Memorial Day, and probably during the rest of the year but mainly for short two to three night stays. But undoubtedly there will be many openings during the year that members will not fill. Personally, I believe that was planned. Disney does not care whether the members use them. Disney cares that the members buy the points applicable to them so it recovers its building costs and makes a profit. All those points applicable to the bungalows can be sold to all those purchasers who can afford only the points needed for studios. Result: Disney effectively sells the bungalows and recover its building costs and makes a profit from the sales. Then, it will get to rent those bungalows to the public at a much higher percentage than any other DVC rooms on site. To entice renters, it can offer deals that including discount rental prices, and packages with tickets and perks such as access to concierge services at Poly. It gets to keep almost all that rental income as profit because it has to pay only a small percentage of it to offset dues of the members as breakage income and all the costs of maintaining and repairing the bungalows will be paid for out of dues paid by all those members who could afford only the points necessary to get a studio. That also means that by the time the resort sells out, the demand for the studios will greatly exceed supply becuase the members who purchased all those points applicable to the bungalows will be trying to get only studios the same as all those purchasers who bought all the points applicable to the studios. Result: though studios may be open many times of year at 7 months out, they are likely to be gone at 7 months out during high demand times like most of the times during the last quarter of the year. The studio only concept for most of Poly may not fit into the concept of a normal DVC resort, but it will likely mean it will be a best seller. When you combine price per point and points needed per night, the place costs way too much for the target purchasers to be able to afford two bedrooms. Disney has, with combination of price per point and points per night, effectively raised the price to buy DVC at a new resort by about 60% during the last four years while inflation has been very low, and even the older resorts have gone up 50%. Studios have always been the higher demanded rooms, but with VGF and its prices and point costs, they have became almost the only demanded rooms. Poly is a recognition of and a solution to that issue while Disney still gets to raise prices and points per night to make a greater profit. The studios are large, have nice bathrooms, and those members needing a bigger unit to house the number of occupants for a 2BR can do so by buying enough points for two studios, meaning much less than what it would cost if there were 2BRs.

Brilliant analysis. Cynical, yet it seems totally correct. Hadn't considered this perspective, but how could anyone fault this logic? This post should be required reading for everybody considering buying PVB points.

 

[awilliams4]

Agree with the OP. Overall, I am disappointed. Own at BCV and BLT and plan to eventually purchase more points. Guess I will be going with the Grand Floridian for extra points now.

 

[awilliams4]

A well versed person wouldn't trade out,

I trade out (to another DVC resort) all the time. Many (most?) owners do. Variety, still need to try SSR, BWV and VGF myself.