Poll: Japanese First Date

[luvsJack]

NO one has said otherwise. Not not single person that I can find.

What many HAVE said, and i think it is very important for the OP to understand so that she can keep things in a place she is comfortable is that OP's views on and experience with sex are very uncommon for her age and she needs to be VERY aware of that and be proactive in making sure she communicates clearly about what she wants so as not to find herself in an uncomfortable situation or blame the other person for being a "bad" person if they go into things assuming the relationship will move faster than she wants and she does not tell them otherwise or say not to do things she does not like.

The date, as she described it, resulted in her being very uncomfortable with a number of physical things, but not ever telling the man that, so he had no way to know he should stop (let's face it, based on OPs descriptions of flirting--I doubt she sends off the right body mean she should change her values. It DOES mean she should make them clear to dates.

I meant by the man she is on a date with.

And taken from this thread:

"Men aren't looking for platonic relationships. Women think they can have them, men want sex. Maybe not right away but at some point it enters their heads. If you're looking for friendship, look for women."

"When you are in your 30's, I can think of several things that can be done after 10"

 

[ronandannette]

Are you saying that SEX is not an expected part of a normal healthy adult relationship? Because I think you are wrong in that.
Now, that does not mean, the OP needs to have sex or feel pressured to have sex. But she should let her dates know (at an appropriate time) that this is not something she is interested in, until much later.

I actually don't think you are wrong about the majority of single adults, but that doesn't mean that there aren't LOTS of people (myself included) who believe that sex is only intended to be part of a "normal, healthy" marriage. If it was me, I'd know enough basics about a person I either invited or accepted a date with to have a sense of where they stood on the issue.

Mackaymouse, sorry if I missed this detail (I really have read the whole thread) - where did you meet this guy? Not that I think you have to "lay it all out there" in advance, but if he is any part of your usual circles he should have at least had a hint of how conservative you are. If not, consider that it's not likely that people with extremely different worldviews and values can go on to have super-successful relationships. Find out more about where this guy is coming from and evaluate the core-compatibilities before you make much effort to go further. You strike me as a person who might be prone to compromising your values while trying to hold tight to your unrealistic ideals.

 

[disneychrista]

No. I am saying that if she wants to wait until she is married or until she is sure of the relationship then that is also normal and part of a healthy adult relationship and she should not be made to feel otherwise.

I actually don't think you are wrong about the majority of single adults, but that doesn't mean that there aren't LOTS of people (myself included) who believe that sex is only intended to be part of a "normal, healthy" marriage.

I agree. However, as I have said, this should (needs to) be discussed with the man/date. And any man worth the OPs time will either feel the same or at least understand and also be willing to wait and not pressure her.

 

[cabanafrau]

I meant by the man she is on a date with.

And taken from this thread:

"Men aren't looking for platonic relationships. Women think they can have them, men want sex. Maybe not right away but at some point it enters their heads. If you're looking for friendship, look for women."

"When you are in your 30's, I can think of several things that can be done after 10"

I think it bears consideration that some of the comments made on the thread probably weren't intended as advice, rather as veiled attempts at portraying the writer in a certain light. That's not meant to be a comment on any quotes you cited. I'm not even certain who put them out there or what context they were given in. I'm merely saying that in scanning through this thing I've had a few laughs at some posts I thought were sort of blatant attempts at spinning an image.

 

[ronandannette]

I agree. However, as I have said, this should (needs to) be discussed with the man/date. And any man worth the OPs time will either feel the same or at least understand and also be willing to wait and not pressure her.

Yes. This presumes though that she and the guy don't know one another very well. If he was (just for example) somebody from her church or a friend of a friend there would probably already be a basic understanding in place.

And I also think (from experience) that there's not much use spending a lot of time with someone and falling "in like" with them without determining if you're sympatico in your core values. That leads to a lot of potential heartache when one or the other of you must decide to compromise in order to move the relationship forward. The OP doesn't strike me as being interested in recreational dating just for the companionship. Every thread she starts involving men implies she's looking for a potential marriage partner and honestly, at her age that's not unreasonable...

 

[disneychrista]

If he was (just for example) somebody from her church or a friend of a friend there would probably already be a basic understanding in place.

My understanding is she meet this person from an online dating website. So unless it was CelibateChristians.com then I am thinking they need to have that conversation.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I meant by the man she is on a date with.

And taken from this thread:

"Men aren't looking for platonic relationships. Women think they can have them, men want sex. Maybe not right away but at some point it enters their heads. If you're looking for friendship, look for women."

"When you are in your 30's, I can think of several things that can be done after 10"

That first one was in response to the OP wanting to be FRIENDS and no longer DATE the man. While I disagree that men and women cannot be friends (though I think it is a bad idea for OP to try to be friends with her failed dates) that quote is NOT saying men will not wait for sex until marriage or that the OP should change her view on that.

The second, is EXACTLY what I am talking about! OP NEEDS (really, I mean NEEDS) to be aware that MANY MANY MANY adult would mean "sex" or at least "petting" if they were talking about wanting to keep the date going later than most things are open in her area. The post did not tell OP to do those things, but she dang well has to know what her dates might be insinuating so she can respond in ways that will keep things going the way she wants them.

I just think it is weird that you keep "defending" OP against a bunch of people supposedly telling her to go out and have sex when that is not happening at all. I think pretty much everyone on the thread would agree that OP is not nearly emotionally mature enough to handle that and it would be a bad idea on many levels.

 

[ronandannette]

My understanding is she meet this person from an online dating website. So unless it was CelibateChristians.com then I am thinking they need to have that conversation.

Bwaaahahaha Where was that site when I was in my late 20's and single? Kids today have it so much easier...

ETA: Yes, I know you made that up

 

[luvsJack]

That first one was in response to the OP wanting to be FRIENDS and no longer DATE the man. While I disagree that men and women cannot be friends (though I think it is a bad idea for OP to try to be friends with her failed dates) that quote is NOT saying men will not wait for sex until marriage or that the OP should change her view on that.

The second, is EXACTLY what I am talking about! OP NEEDS (really, I mean NEEDS) to be aware that MANY MANY MANY adult would mean "sex" or at least "petting" if they were talking about wanting to keep the date going later than most hings are ope in her area. The post did not tell OP to do those things, but she dang well has to know what her dates might be insinuating so she can respond in ways that will keep things going the way she wants them.

I just think it is weird that you keep "defending" OP against a bunch of people supposedly telling her to go out and have sex when that is not happening at all. I think pretty much everyone on the thread would agree that OP is not nearly emotionally mature enough to handle that and it would be a bad idea on many levels.

No, you are not getting my intentions at all

I am not defending her against anyone. I am simply saying that she should not feel as though she is wrong in whatever it is that makes her want to wait.

I have said several times that she needs to be upfront with whomever she is dating. But when you are told again and again that "most normal people of your age expect sex"; you may start to think something is wrong with YOU when in fact there is not. There also isn't anything wrong with the person that has the opposite expectations as the OP.

I don't think she should feel like this is a first date conversation but it is a conversation she should have with anyone that goes beyond a first date.

Being told to understand that a 30 something man is going to expect sex at some point is all well and good. But sometimes it comes across as saying that she is wrong for not wanting it.

Neither the man is on a date with or anyone else (here, there or otherwise) should make her feel wrong in her convictions. Otherwise she is going to continue to feel hesitant about being clear about her feelings with her date. And if someone doesn't mean to make her feel that way, ok but its not about their intentions, its about the harping again and again and again about what others think should be an expectation.

After the 50th post about what "normal, healthy relationships" are, anyone would question their own feelings. If she is going to be upfront and confident in letting him know what she does or does not feel is appropriate; then she doesn't need to have to question what she feels. That is all I am saying.

 

[Hrhpd]

I meant by the man she is on a date with.

And taken from this thread:

"Men aren't looking for platonic relationships. Women think they can have them, men want sex. Maybe not right away but at some point it enters their heads. If you're looking for friendship, look for women."

"When you are in your 30's, I can think of several things that can be done after 10"

Since you used one of my lines, not surprisingly out of context as you seem prone to do, to make your point,

Let me remind you that in each and every single post I have made, I have said that there is nothing wrong with having boundaries, one just needs to make them known sooner than later.

Every other single poster in this thread has said the same thing and basically what you are saying too.

The OP must make her boundaries clear sooner than later. She should not suffer uncomfortably, like she did in this date, thinking the guy would magically know that she did not want to be touched.

You may not want to believe it, but sex is more common once people are older, as in their 30's. Whether a person is comfortable or not with it is not as clear as when somebody is a doe-eyed 18 year old virgin.

Because there are women that are ok with sex on the third, second or first date, it is harder for a couple to know where each other stands on the subject.

Hence, the advice to the OP that she stop any sexual advances at the beginning and let her date know her boundaries.

She could have saved herself quite a bit of discomfort if, when he first touched her hand in the restaurant, she said to him "I am more comfortable in taking a physical relationship very slowly."

If he was a gentleman, which he did seem as he did ask if he could kiss her, he would have stopped right then and there as the boundaries had been communicated.

The OP would have had a much more pleasant time.

However, the OP lives in a fantasy world of Harlequin Romances. She thinks the guys out there are knights in shining armor, out to protect the damsel.

Unfortunately, this is the real world. She ALLOWED numerous escalating sexual advances. How was the guy supposed to know she was uncomfortable with all of them?

Because she is a 30+ year old woman, supposedly mature, the guy most likely proceeded because he thought she was enjoying and was ok with escalating the sexual advances, as many 30 year old women would.

Again, there is nothing wrong with her wanting to wait. BUT, she needs to communicate that to her date. She cannot rely on the powers of mind reading as she sits in a movie theater, extremely uncomfortable, but says nothing.

Edited to add: This is assuming that this guy is not somebody in her inner circle that would know her convictions. She has already posted in earlier threads that there is nobody, except the mystery older man that she won't even introduce herself to, in her church that interests her. As with the older man, she won't go up to somebody she knows and talk to them, and with her penchant for online dating, it is safe to assume that this guy was not in her inner circle that knew her.

 

[skatalite]

So, I've been thinking about mmackeymouse and her threads, specifically those about men, relationship, dating, romance and so on, along with what I've seen of her online dating profile, and her secondary profiles on the DIS.

Maybe mmackeymouse is a real person, who really does have somewhat of a delayed adolescence. She comes across as ignorant and awkward, as someone who lives in the reality we all share with the exception of intimate relationships.

And, if you haven't already noticed, she never accepts the advice given to her by anyone on the DIS. What I think mmackeymouse wants isn't advice, but support.

The problem is people can't offer support to something they know is wrong and/or unrealistic, like mmackeymouse's fantasies and desires on a potential mate. If we all just told mmackeymouse "good luck!" then she'd be content, but she'd never learn.

Her ignorance is woeful, but perhaps it is real. Just like when she responded to the guy's offer of a second date. I can totally see her thinking: "Oh, well, I'll be in his town in a month so we can hang out then!" thinking it a totally adequate response, because she is socially delayed and clueless to dating and social etiquette.

I wonder if mmackeymouse is doing this whole dating thing because she feels like she has to rather than she wants to.

 

[luvsJack]

Since you used one of my lines, not surprisingly out of context as you seem prone to do, to make your point,

Let me remind you that in each and every single post I have made, I have said that there is nothing wrong with having boundaries, one just needs to make them known sooner than later.

Every other single poster in this thread has said the same thing and basically what you are saying too.

The OP must make her boundaries clear sooner than later. She should not suffer uncomfortably, like she did in this date, thinking the guy would magically know that she did not want to be touched.

You may not want to believe it, but sex is more common once people are older, as in their 30's. Whether a person is comfortable or not with it is not as clear as when somebody is a doe-eyed 18 year old virgin.

Because there are women that are ok with sex on the third, second or first date, it is harder for a couple to know where each other stands on the subject.

Hence, the advice to the OP that she stop any sexual advances at the beginning and let her date know her boundaries.

She could have saved herself quite a bit of discomfort if, when he first touched her hand in the restaurant, she said to him "I am more comfortable in taking a physical relationship very slowly."

If he was a gentleman, which he did seem as he did ask if he could kiss her, he would have stopped right then and there as the boundaries had been communicated.

The OP would have had a much more pleasant time.

However, the OP lives in a fantasy world of Harlequin Romances. She thinks the guys out there are knights in shining armor, out to protect the damsel.

Unfortunately, this is the real world. She ALLOWED numerous escalating sexual advances. How was the guy supposed to know she was uncomfortable with all of them?

Because she is a 30+ year old woman, supposedly mature, the guy most likely proceeded because he thought she was enjoying and was ok with escalating the sexual advances, as many 30 year old women would.

Again, there is nothing wrong with her wanting to wait. BUT, she needs to communicate that to her date. She cannot rely on the powers of mind reading as she sits in a movie theater, extremely uncomfortable, but says nothing.

Edited to add: This is assuming that this guy is not somebody in her inner circle that would know her convictions. She has already posted in earlier threads that there is nobody, except the mystery older man that she won't even introduce herself to, in her church that interests her. As with the older man, she won't go up to somebody she knows and talk to them, and with her penchant for online dating, it is safe to assume that this guy was not in her inner circle that knew her.

As I am prone to do? That is the very first time I have ever copied a line from a post without quoting the entire thing.

I didn't say that your intentions were anything more than what they are. I am saying, again, that if everyone keeps hitting her over the head with it, she may question her own convictions. Take your own quote, how does it sound to you without the rest of your post? You can't see how it may sound to someone else?

Its the way many are wording it to make it seem like it is almost making fun of her. And THAT will make her question herself.

I didn't say anyone was wrong about setting boundaries nor did I say that no one said she should make those boundaries clear.

But-your own quote makes it sound like you find it amusing that she didn't think there was anything to do after 10:00. Others have said she isn't looking for a "healthy mature relationship".

Touching someone's hand is not a sexual advance. She doesn't have to ward off anything remotely affectionate because she isn't ready for sex. If touching her hand was uncomfortable for her all she had to do was move her hand.

I think the OP needs to know what she is and isn't comfortable with as far as hand holding, arms on her shoulders, kisses, etc. And she needs to set those boundaries. But I don't think she has to stay 24" away from the man at all times either.

 

[cabanafrau]

So, I've been thinking about mmackeymouse and her threads, specifically those about men, relationship, dating, romance and so on, along with what I've seen of her online dating profile, and her secondary profiles on the DIS.

Maybe mmackeymouse is a real person, who really does have somewhat of a delayed adolescence. She comes across as ignorant and awkward, as someone who lives in the reality we all share with the exception of intimate relationships.

And, if you haven't already noticed, she never accepts the advice given to her by anyone on the DIS. What I think mmackeymouse wants isn't advice, but support.

The problem is people can't offer support to something they know is wrong and/or unrealistic, like mmackeymouse's fantasies and desires on a potential mate. If we all just told mmackeymouse "good luck!" then she'd be content, but she'd never learn.

Her ignorance is woeful, but perhaps it is real. Just like when she responded to the guy's offer of a second date. I can totally see her thinking: "Oh, well, I'll be in his town in a month so we can hang out then!" thinking it a totally adequate response, because she is socially delayed and clueless to dating and social etiquette.

I wonder if mmackeymouse is doing this whole dating thing because she feels like she has to rather than she wants to.

I don't know about all the stuff being dragged in from other threads, other names, other sites, etc., I'm just working off this thread. Taking what's been posted in this thread at face value I've honestly wondered if a nunnery has ever been considered, but I guess you would have to assume Catholicism for that to be in consideration.

I don't mean that negatively in any way. If that's your fit, that's your fit & it's wonderful you found your place and God bless. No one who believes in acceptance for any type of differences in lifestyles should begin to look down on anyone who feels something like this is their path and pursuing it. To do otherwise calls every other lifestyle choice in question as well.

Again taking the details of this thread into consideration at face value, if a perpetually single, chaste lifestyle isn't the goal at the very least it sounds to me like OP would benefit from widening her social experiences and social network on all levels, not just with an eye to a potential mate. What's outlined here points to a very minimal life experience level. Anyone I know who is single beyond college age for any period of time tends to be very active in whatever realm of interests they have as an individual, or in the case of divorced folks it's frequently liberally smattered with their kids' activities as well. I'd recommend anyone who finds themselves kind of isolated in their life situation and looking for making changes to pursue hobbies, interests, education, athletic activities and volunteering for causes you feel need your help. At the very least you're doing stuff you enjoy and upping the odds of meeting people who share a common interest or belief with you and may end up making some great friends.

 

[NHdisneylover]

So, I've been thinking about mmackeymouse and her threads, specifically those about men, relationship, dating, romance and so on, along with what I've seen of her online dating profile, and her secondary profiles on the DIS.

Maybe mmackeymouse is a real person, who really does have somewhat of a delayed adolescence. She comes across as ignorant and awkward, as someone who lives in the reality we all share with the exception of intimate relationships.

And, if you haven't already noticed, she never accepts the advice given to her by anyone on the DIS. What I think mmackeymouse wants isn't advice, but support.

The problem is people can't offer support to something they know is wrong and/or unrealistic, like mmackeymouse's fantasies and desires on a potential mate. If we all just told mmackeymouse "good luck!" then she'd be content, but she'd never learn.

Her ignorance is woeful, but perhaps it is real. Just like when she responded to the guy's offer of a second date. I can totally see her thinking: "Oh, well, I'll be in his town in a month so we can hang out then!" thinking it a totally adequate response, because she is socially delayed and clueless to dating and social etiquette.

I wonder if mmackeymouse is doing this whole dating thing because she feels like she has to rather than she wants to.

I agree she is a real person (that is my sense anyway) and she is just super inexperienced and immature about adult relationships (and very very stubborn). I think she really went on this date too. I am not so sure I believe the things she says happened afterwards (I will leave it at that).

I agree with you that she doesn't truly want advice--she certainly NEVER takes it. I think she wants people to tell her she is right about all her thoughts and beliefs and help her keep her fantasy version of life going--but I feel it is unconscionable to help someone continue an illusion that I feel is hurtful to them--so I will keep giving advice when she asks for it anyway

As I am prone to do? That is the very first time I have ever copied a line from a post without quoting the entire thing.

I didn't say that your intentions were anything more than what they are. I am saying, again, that if everyone keeps hitting her over the head with it, she may question her own convictions. Take your own quote, how does it sound to you without the rest of your post? You can't see how it may sound to someone else?

Its the way many are wording it to make it seem like it is almost making fun of her. And THAT will make her question herself.

I didn't say anyone was wrong about setting boundaries nor did I say that no one said she should make those boundaries clear.

But-your own quote makes it sound like you find it amusing that she didn't think there was anything to do after 10:00. Others have said she isn't looking for a "healthy mature relationship".

Touching someone's hand is not a sexual advance. She doesn't have to ward off anything remotely affectionate because she isn't ready for sex. If touching her hand was uncomfortable for her all she had to do was move her hand.

I think the OP needs to know what she is and isn't comfortable with as far as hand holding, arms on her shoulders, kisses, etc. And she needs to set those boundaries. But I don't think she has to stay 24" away from the man at all times either.

Have you followed this poster? I mean, I know you have, but I think it is laughable to think she would questions her convictions based on what was posted in this thread. She cannot be talked out of totally unrealistic things (like thinking it is reasonable to expect a man to think cuddling while doing crosswords is a perfect date) when every poster actively tries to do so, why on earth would you think she will change deep seated convictions when people tell her over and over it is fine to have them?

Again taking the details of this thread into consideration at face value, if a perpetually single, chaste lifestyle isn't the goal at the very least it sounds to me like OP would benefit from widening her social experiences and social network on all levels, not just with an eye to a potential mate. What's outlined here points to a very minimal life experience level. Anyone I know who is single beyond college age for any period of time tends to be very active in whatever realm of interests they have as an individual, or in the case of divorced folks it's frequently liberally smattered with their kids' activities as well. I'd recommend anyone who finds themselves kind of isolated in their life situation and looking for making changes to pursue hobbies, interests, education, athletic activities and volunteering for causes you feel need your help. At the very least you're doing stuff you enjoy and upping the odds of meeting people who share a common interest or belief with you and may end up making some great friends.

I agree Many of us have advised this type of thing over and over and OVER again. Hopefully someday OP will listen (or comes to terms with enjoying being alone, whichever it is).

 

[disneychrista]

She cannot be talked out of totally unrealistic things (like thinking it is reasonable to expect a man to think cuddling while doing crosswords is a perfect date)

Maybe I am naive too. Because I think that is a great way to spend an afternoon "date" with someone who I was dating (for awhile). Of course not a first date or for a new relationship.

But of course I am not a man, either.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Maybe I am naive too. Because I think that is a great way to spend an afternoon "date" with someone who I was dating (for awhile). Of course not a first date or for a new relationship.

Have you read that thread? You would have to read it to understand how off the whole scenario was. I enjoy cuddling up with my husband and playing a board game myself--actually I find that kind of thing to be particularly intimate and very much more of a long term thing--but then again I am married to him; she would not even talk to this man and assumed cuddling like this was as far as it would ever go because he was older and that is all an older man would want (or something along those lines).

OP struggles to understand that her boundaries are FINE but that most others do not share them, thus the need to be told again and again and again that she is not representative of the norm and she cannot assume others will easily guess her feelings.

 

[disneychrista]

assumed cuddling like this was as far as it would ever go because he was older and that is all an older man would want (or something along those lines). .

Only if he is 90 & maybe not even then

 

[sunshinehighway]

I think it's weird (from her playback of the date) the guy seemed to be wanting a little something physically, then send her a message saying he admires her chastity. It doesn't sound like she explained her values to him and he didn't know because of all the "moves" he put on her so it doesn't make sense.

 

[Laura66]

I think it's weird (from her playback of the date) the guy seemed to be wanting a little something physically, then send her a message saying he admires her chastity. It doesn't sound like she explained her values to him and he didn't know because of all the "moves" he put on her so it doesn't make sense.

I don't think it makes sense - but then again, besides the going out part - I don't think any of her story is true.

 

[mrzrich]

PSA TO ANY NEW PEOPLE NAIVELY TRYING TO HELP OP.

The good people of the DIS have been giving good advice to this poster for years. She a always has an excuse not to take it.

Many people have told her that she needs to get some therapy. She rebuffs them saying she's fine, even keeled and needs no professional help.

She has unrealistic expectations of what a relationship is, but argues with people who have actual experience when they try to tell her how it really works.

Don't invest your energy talking to the brick wall people.