Poll: Japanese First Date

[ChrisFL]

Eel is cooked. It's one of the less adventurous things to have when getting sushi, I think.

yes, but I don't think the taste is very "standard" even if it is cooked. I'd much rather start someone who's new with sushi....with raw tuna, white tuna or salmon

 

[ChrisFL]

How YOU doin?

hehe, I'm fine...how YOU doin'?

 

[Hrhpd]

I fully admit that I have not been in your shoes. I was never opposed to pre martial sex, and I have been with the same person since I was 19, so my advice may be way off (if it is, I imagine others will say so soon )

I think that when he was suggesting you do something else after the movie, the VAST majority of adult would not have thought "what else is there to do" but have assumed that he wanted to go back to his (or your place and at least start moving down that road.

Did that really not cross your mind or were you just playing coy here with us because honestly that is a level of nativity I would not expect out of anyone raised in the US and over about age 16.

I think THAT was your opening to explain what your feelings are about how fast a physical relationship can move.

Op, you are in your 30's. Most men are going to assume you have at least some sexual experience at your age.

It is your job and your responsibility to make your boundaries known as soon as you can. Otherwise, by not telling a guy to stop when they fiddle with your hair or ask if they can kiss you, it is leading them on.

Your boundaries, while very valid for you and not wrong, are on the more unusual side for a 30+ year old woman. So, in order to keep a date on the right track and comfortable for you, you need to discuss this like a grown woman sooner rather than later.

 

[Hrhpd]

Its kind of funny reading all the responses.

Some think he was too forward and others think she should have been prepared to have sex with him.

A whole lot of assuming from a description of a first date.

When did being over 30 = sex on the first date? Never heard that one before. And it certainly wasn't true when I was divorced (well, I was a little under 30 but still).

OP, be friends with the guy, take it as slow as you want to and see what happens. Go out again, do something fun. See how this is going to go. If he doesn't become more attractive to you, then move on to the next guy. If you continue to feel awkward with him then he isn't the guy for you.

I don't think I saw anyone say she should have jumped into bed with him.

However, there are a few expectations of maturity for a person into his/her 30's. There is nothing wrong with having boundaries, but the person should be mature enough to state them immediately.

She shouldn't allow an arm around her neck, inwardly seething, without saying anything. It should be expected that the woman (or man) of that age would have the maturity to stop any uncomfortable familiarity immediately.

If it is not stopped, it is more apt to be presumed for an older person, that the familiarity was ok. Hence the man moving on to playing with the hair. He still was not asked to stop. He asked if he could kiss her. She didn't say no and her coyly looking at the street could easily be interpreted as playing games with a big "sure."

At the OP's age, many, many women have had at least a few years of sexual experience. Unlike a young teen or young 20's, it is not immediately assumed that the person may be inexperienced. I think everybody is just telling the OP that she needs to make her boundaries known up front in order to be able to enjoy the date and set the expectations for both partners.

She allowed a progression of sexual advances: stroking hand, arm around shoulder, fiddling with neck and hair, a kiss without establishing her boundaries. I don't think the guy was totally out of line with thinking a 31 year old woman was ok with what he was doing since she wasn't making any kind of indication that it was not ok.

 

[carriemd]

yes, but I don't think the taste is very "standard" even if it is cooked. I'd much rather start someone who's new with sushi....with raw tuna, white tuna or salmon

Yes, it's completely a texture thing.

And I also saw no one say she should be prepared to put out. Rather, most people said she needed to clarify her boundaries, and no one criticized those boundaries.

 

[roseaster]

OP,

It was great you took the 1st step. That is the hardest thing to do. If I may offer some advice.

Drop the innocent, submissive act. Really, it's asking for trouble. I realize that you don't have any experience in the relationship field, but acting like you don't know which end is up may put you in a very bad position. There are men out there that will use that to take advantage of you. This time it was just a bad meal and a kiss, next time it could be far worse.

You are a 30 year old woman, you know what you like and you know what you want. Stand up for it. Asserting yourself isn't rude. It shows that you are self assured. Your 1st mistake was letting him push you into ordering something you don't like or want, from there on out you set the tome that you can be over-run.

1st dates are supposed to be a fun, casual, getting to know you thing. I, too, would have been bothered by the unsolicited kiss, and arm around me. I am the type of person it takes a while to warm up. (and I have been married, divorced, and remarried, so I have more experience in this dept.) You don't have to have any deep conversations about things like boundaries or expectations, but you do have to stand up for yourself.

If you aren't comfortable with him, or he feels "off" to you, move on. You don't have anything invested here.

Have you considered trying a Christian dating site, or one for shy people, or something that screens people so that they are more of a lifestyle/personality match like Eharmony? You really are in quite a unique situation for a 30 year old woman. I think you need to seek water at your same level, because, honestly, most 30 year old men who are on a typical dating site are probably looking for a relationship that will include a physical component.

Good luck.

 

[pixiewings71]

OP here.

Alright sooo

Pros: his manners were impeccable. He was attentive and a total gentleman, which I appreciated. Cons: He was a little bossy, and at times, said things that rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm a little sad, because while I found conversation over certain topics pretty easy, I don't know that just friendship is going to be a possibility with him. He was pretty explicit in his interest. And, several times made a lot of general marriage comments, which made me a little uncomfortable. "My son will wear this at all times." "No wife of mine will..." "I cannot imagine ordering my wife around..." He also mentioned he is under pressure to give his parents grandkids.

Anyway, so he was already there when I got there, and he already had a seat. When I walked in, the lady showed me to his booth. Come to find out, he actually frequented the place often, and the ladies all knew him. So, that led to some very awkward moments. At one point, the waitress tells him, "Polite girl, this one" and another one winked at him. He asked if I would want to do sushi, and I told him flat-out no. He almost seemed offended, but was just like, "Welp, you're going to try sushi." And, we argued over that for far too long, and he was not giving in so...yeah. He decided on eel. Eel! Holy moly...

So, he's giving me some guidance on what I should order. Finally, I said, "Can I just tell you what I want?" So, he asked, and I told him chicken. "And?" Just chicken, I confirmed. Well, that wasn't good enough. He wanted me to get some huge platter, a Bento Box, I think was what it was called. And, he assured me, he would eat whatever I didn't. So, I just gave in. He got himself sushi, and then two pieces of the eel sushi for us to share.

He took the liberty of ordering for me, and I was very impressed by that, even though I wasn't that crazy about him being dictatorial about what I should eat. Food came. The chicken was fine. The rice was fine. I didn't eat anything else. There was also mushroom soup, a salad, a spring roll, tempura broccoli, and some sort of sushi. Then, he gave me the eel sushi. I legitimately almost threw up twice while trying to eat it. I felt myself heave two times, and I thought "Oh my God, no" At first, I tried to eat it without chewing much, but that was a bad idea, so then I had to chew it and....ick...that was a pretty bad idea too. As soon as I could get it down my throat, I reached for my water and slurped it down like I had just run a marathon through the Sahara.

Throughout the meal, he kept touching my hand, like when making a point and even eating off my plate. I wasn't 100% comfortable with that level of familiarity, but...it is what it is. Then, when we were both full, he ended up NOT taking my extra food, and making a comment about all the food leftover. I felt a little uncomfortable about that too, but didn't apologize. He picked what I should order, and said he would eat what is leftover. He paid the bill, I thanked him politely, and we were done.

Honestly, I thought things were going pretty awkwardly, so I really thought he was going to be ready to part ways like I was, pretty much. But, he was pretty insistent on wanting to continue on. So, we decided to do a movie. He told me I looked lovely this evening, and that softened my resolve just a little.

During the movie, he felt the need to put his arm around my shoulder...which I kind of took a deep breath and just decided just to get through it. Then, he started playing with my hair and touching my neck...I was cringing on the inside, but again, just wanted to get through the movie, so I didn't say or do anything.

After the movie, it was 10 o clock, so I told him I should probably get home. He was disappointed, and kept asking "Are you sure?" I mean, duh, yeah I'm sure! What else is there to do at 10 o clock at night? Eventually, he gave up. I gave him a hug, thanked him for dinner, and I was on my way.

Wait...nope. I forgot a step.

After the hug, he said he really wanted to kiss me and asked me if he could. So, I looked down, trying to formulate in my head how to delicately say, "No, I don't think so." or "Not tonight," or something like that. So, I don't know what part of my hesitation he interpreted as "Sure, go for it," but before I could answer him, he just did it anyway. And, that was it.

He texted me afterwards to say he had a nice time. I texted him once I got home, to let him know I made it home safely, and thanked him again for dinner.

Any questions?

I bolded the above, I find it odd and contradictory, he cannot imagine ordering his wife around and then no wife of mine....seems odd. Anyway, it also seems like a sort of normal first date for a slightly awkward couple, I think you should give it another try, maybe even two. I do agree that you need to make some rules clear though, if you aren't ready for the kissing and touching he needs to know that now, you need to tell him. You need to just say it, you'll feel better.
As for eel.....I've been eating sushi for about 10 years now and I can't stand eel, DBF loves it and gets it every time we go to sushi (he gets a dragon roll, CA roll with eel on top lol) but I don't like it at all. That's definitely not something I would suggest for a first time sushi eater! If you decide to try again try a CA roll, crab, cooked, mixed with mayo and wrapped in rice, usually has avocado in it as well. It's a great starter.

I would have been a bit icked-out by the fact that it seems he has a "date restaurant" where he takes all his dates and all the waitresses seemed to be in on it. Would make me wonder exactly how many women he takes there.

I didn't get that impression, it sounded more like he's found a place he likes and he wanted to take her there too. I find nothing at all wrong with that.

Yes, it's completely a texture thing.

And I also saw no one say she should be prepared to put out. Rather, most people said she needed to clarify her boundaries, and no one criticized those boundaries.

For me it isn't the texture, it's the taste, eel is very fishy and salty and I don't like that at all. I had to choke mine down too when I tried it.....yuck!

 

[minkydog]

OP, it sounds like a rather awkward first date but I wouldn't throw in the towel. This guy doesn't seem to be any more experienced than you are and that's not really a bad thing. But you need to take the lead on the next date so you can control what happens.

Might I suggest just meeting for coffee at the local Starbucks or Panera Bread? Have coffee and a Danish and talk Geek to your hearts content. It's not a place to get intimate, it's a place to get to know each other better. Have something to do at the end of the date and part ways. Do not give in to his wanting to do something else. Coffee, conversation, part ways. It's not mean; it's just re-setting the boundaries that were tromped on during the first date.

Here's how you do it: Mr. Nervous Pants texts you and asks to see you again. You rather forthrightly text him and say, "Sure. Let's meet for coffee at XYZ Place." Now, if he says, no I want to go somewhere else, you say no, I really would just like to get some coffee and get to know you better. If he persists in trying to persuade you otherwise, you need to pay attention. That is a huge red flag. Say no, I don't feel comfortable with that.

On the other hand, he may be relieved for you to take the lead here. Suppose you say, "Let's meet at XYZ PLace for coffee" and he says, "Great! What time?" Well, what time would you want to meet, girl? I would recommend meeting in mid-afternoon, before the sun goes down. There's something about sunset that makes any date seem more intimate. So he say, "Yeah, great, 3pm it is!" There you go! You are now in charge of the date.

Keep it about coffee and a snack, not a full meal. Just sit across from each other and talk about the nerdy things you both enjoy. Plan to spend an hour or so, if things are going well. Always have something you need to "do" after the date. Whether you really have something to do or not is immaterial. In your mind, have someplace you need to go: Getting together with girlfriends to watch girl movies, calling your old, sick grandmother, hair appointment. take the dog to the groomer. You get the idea. Someplace that he is not invited to go. Set your cell phone alarm for the allotted time (4:30 would be about right.) Then when the alarm goes off you can start winding it up, say goodbye. If you had a good time, tell him you want to meet for coffee again. Then take your leave and go home.

I know you don't have a lot of dating experience and you're just going to have to learn by doing. Some dates are successful, some are not. Perhaps you should try to keep things light and of shorter duration. I cannot imagine going on a first date like you describe. Dinner, okay. Movie on a first date? No. You can't talk or get to know each other and as you saw, under cover of darkness he got a little too familiar and you didn't have the nerve to say no. You gotta fix that, girl. No more dates in darkened rooms until you've got more positive experiences.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Okay so here's the thing..tune out everyone and their whole you need to be prepared to put out then and there. If you aren't ready or feeling the vibe, that's your answer. I don't give a damn about age or anything else. When you are ready, you are ready and frankly I don't think emotionally you are anywhere near ready for sex.

Now onto the real stuff. You don't know me from eve but it seems like you had a good vibe going with him from the way you were talking about conversation
flowing. Conversation at first can be difficult especially for two introverts or two really nervous people. You have a lot of the same interests which is great.

If my husband started talking geek, my eyes would cross and I would just smile and nod. I know nothing about that kind of stuff. We don't have a lot of the same hobbies.

I do think you need to prepared though to lay out some boundaries if you do a second date. You mentioned how do you bring that up, you just do. You don't have to talk about waiting for sex or whatever but if you aren't comfortable with the touching then you need to tell him plain and simple BECAUSE if you do not THERE WILL BE EXPECTATION OF MORE TOUCHING..... I will repeat myself again....tell him if you are comfortable or not bc THERE WILL BE EXPECTATION OF MORE TOUCHING...you got the first kiss out of the way whether you wanted it really or not. If you don't want another kiss on the date, then say it but understand that expectation is probably at least yes another kiss.

I think this is a great way to get you more comfortable and even learn to handle yourself in awkward situations like sometimes stilted conversation but you have to learn that it's not terribly romantic at first to be dating sometimes and yes some people will place more expectation on you because of your age. This is where you will learn to need to be firm and don't think what is right and proper but simply where you are in relations to comfort and enjoyment.

Right and proper is different for every person in the entire world. Don't worry about your friends and family and the DIS or anyone else. Do what is comfortable for you and only you. If you want to kiss the living daylights out of him(any him) before the date starts and he wants it, get down with it.

Trust me, respectable people do things in not so respectable time frames

I agree with everything you said, except I do not think ANYone said she should "put out" I (and most people from what I can tell) agree with you that she is not nearly emotionally ready to handle sex.

What I DO think is, as others have said since your post, OP needs (NEEDS) to understand that the vast majority of 30 year olds have more experience than she does, a lot more experiences, and that it is NORMAL and NOT rude or bad or immoral, if her date (this one, or any other one) assumes she has a normal level of experience and has a different timeline in mind than she does.

She HAS to face this, and not "talk herself out" of believing that he might have been wanting to go back to his place She HAS to assume the other person is moving at a more typical speed and has more typical experiences and (as you said) stop things she is not comfortable with immediately so they do not lead to more and more things she is not comfortable with.

OP, it is not fair to you, or him (any him) if you do not speak up and stop anything that bothers you right away and if you do not make it pretty clear what timeline you are looking at fairly soon.

Why WOULD you talk yourself out of thinking he wanted to go back to his place? It is fairly normal. You need to address, it will not go away otherwise.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I agree with everything you said, except I do not think ANYone said she should "put out" I (and most people from what I can tell) agree with you that she is not nearly emotionally ready to handle sex.

What I DO think is, as others have said since your post, OP needs (NEEDS) to understand that the vast majority of 30 year olds have more experience than she does, a lot more experiences, and that it is NORMAL and NOT rude or bad or immoral, if her date (this one, or any other one) assumes she has a normal level of experience and has a different timeline in mind than she does.

She HAS to face this, and not "talk herself out" of believing that he might have been wanting to go back to his place She HAS to assume the other person is moving at a more typical speed and has more typical experiences and (as you said) stop things she is not comfortable with immediately so they do not lead to more and more things she is not comfortable with.

OP, it is not fair to you, or him (any him) if you do not speak up and stop anything that bothers you right away and if you do not make it pretty clear what timeline you are looking at fairly soon.

Why WOULD you talk yourself out of thinking he wanted to go back to his place? It is fairly normal. You need to address, it will not go away otherwise.

I agree.

OP, I don't want you to think most men (and women) are lecherous animals, but it is completely natural and normal to want to be physical (to any degree) with someone you just spent date time with who you are attracted to. No, men (or women) don't HAVE to give into those urges/feelings, but it's very normal to have them. It doesn't make a person bad or wrong.

I, admittedly, have been out of the dating scene for 22 years, but when I was dating, there were plenty of people who chose to have sex on the first date. Probably not the smartest thing to do, especially if they were interested in pursuing a relationship, but it wasn't super uncommon, by any means.

So, as far as sex and dating goes, there is a spectrum of practices and preferences. Does that mean you should change your views and goals? No! Absolutely not. But it lets you know that there are plenty of good, wonderful, men who do not share those views. Would it be a deal breaker for them? Who knows. Since you lie on the far end of the spectrum (at least with experience and I'm assuming with timing preferences), it's very important that you're clear on what you want.

I still think your date was likely nervous and very inexperienced at dating and that's why he acted like he did. He could just be an immature jerk or he could need a couple dates before he feels he can be himself, but if you go out with him again you need to let him know where you stand.

If you decide not to go out with him again, I hope it's for the right reasons. But at least you got one under your belt. (and, btw, it sounds like you chose a nice outfit). It will get easier and easier.

 

[goofyintoronto]

Wow, he sure was bossy! Kinda crazy to talk about marriage and grandchildren on first date. I think you were lucky to escape him.

im a bit late jumping in but here goes....I agree, talking about marriage and kids on a first day is good way to scare someone off! Jeez!

Secondly, he ordered for you???? What is this, 1960? I'd be offended if a guy ordered for me! But thats just me.

The guy was definitely trying too hard...stroking your neck, touching your hair at the movies. LOL! Gimme a break.

ok im done.

 

[mmackeymouse]

Why WOULD you talk yourself out of thinking he wanted to go back to his place? It is fairly normal. You need to address, it will not go away otherwise.

Well, I didn't realize it WAS normal...at least in the capacity of a first date. I thought the only kind of people who invited women back to their place so quickly were creepers.

Live and learn, huh?

im a bit late jumping in but here goes....I agree, talking about marriage and kids on a first day is good way to scare someone off! Jeez!

I know! I always thought it was women who were supposed to hold back on the marriage and kids talk, lest they scare away a guy. Never imagined a guy would be doing it.


So, anyway....this was the lovely message I received last night.

I wanted to share it especially due to the last line. It actually made me laugh, because of our "What to wear" conversation a couple of days ago, and I went with the least stylish option. Also, in normal life, I don't think anyone would accuse me of dressing well...I am a pretty quirky dresser...so it just amused me that he put "dresses well" It's probably the first and last time someone will ever say that about me.

 

[BlovesC]

"I admire your chastity"? Really? Since that seems to be exactly what you'd hope a potential suitor would tell you, it sounds like you should definitely give him a second shot, he obviously 'gets' you!

 

[luvsJack]

Admiring your chastity sounds like he has an idea of your boundaries. I think that you were nervous, he was nervous and that makes awkward. Maybe he sees you as an "old fashioned girl" so thought the ordering for you and the talk about marriage would be the right thing.

Give him another chance and try to get over the nerves and try to put him at ease too.

 

[LiveYourLife]

So, anyway....this was the lovely message I received last night.

I wanted to share it especially due to the last line. It actually made me laugh, because of our "What to wear" conversation a couple of days ago, and I went with the least stylish option. Also, in normal life, I don't think anyone would accuse me of dressing well...I am a pretty quirky dresser...so it just amused me that he put "dresses well" It's probably the first and last time someone will ever say that about me.

mmackey, I'm not going to dole out advice because you never take what any of the posters on this board have to say. And it is VERY good advice. Not just in this thread, but every other dating thread you've started.

I think it's pretty immature to post a screenshot of his text message on an Internet message board for thousands of strangers to see. Yes, I know there is some anonymity to it - but you never know.....small world and all that jazz. How would you feel if he did that to you? Probably embarrassed and pissed. I know I would be.

Anyway, good luck on your next date with this guy if you decide to see him again.

 

[mom2rtk]

What the OP saw from her date might be normal behavior for some on a first date. But in many cases, people have at least known each other long enough to build up enough interest to even ask the other person out.

I think it's creepy coming on the very first day you even meet the person.

 

[Elleshoodat]

"I admire your chastity"? Really? Since that seems to be exactly what you'd hope a potential suitor would tell you, it sounds like you should definitely give him a second shot, he obviously 'gets' you!

That's what I was thinking. I don't know any thirty-something man who talks that way. OP, you should snatch him up; he romanticizes just like you do.

 

[mrzrich]

Secondly, he ordered for you???? What is this, 1960? I'd be offended if a guy ordered for me! But thats just me. :

I really think he ordered for her because she was flabbergasted about what to order.

 

[Laura66]

I really think he order for her because she was flabbergasted about what to order.

Bingo! I'm sorry - I'm not calling the OP a liar because I really do think that might be the way she perceived the date.

We've got pages of pages on what to wear and what to order and if you didn't know the OP you would think she's a teenager. I think both the OP and her date are socially awkward and have no idea about dating and relationships - real relationships in the real world.

My guess - and it's only a guess is that he took charge and ordered because OP was flabbergasted or confused or playing coy. When she did not stop his advances I'm sure he thought she enjoyed them.

I'm wondering too - the OP writes very well - her posts are long and super analytical - down to the smallest detail. She has a response and excuse for any advise we give to help or understand the other side of the story. Yet she doesn't have a clue about dating or reading people or signals. I admit I sometimes wonder if she really isn't as socially awkward and immature as she might have us think.

 

[Liberty Belle]

After seeing that text, it sounds like he is just trying too hard. He seems to really like you OP (or at least really like the idea of having a girlfriend). He kind of reminds me of a guy friend of mine who is 43 and never been married, but desperately wants marriage and a child. He wants it so bad that he just comes on way too strong at first.

I think this guy has potential for you. I'd give him a couple more dates and see how it goes. But again, keep telling him (if need be) that you want to take things very slowly. That (even with his chastity comment) is extremely important. He needs to know what you want and you may have to guide him.