Poll about banning free dining (Inspired by Geezer)

[Tamar]

I think the dining would have to get better if the restaurants weren't assured of a full house every night. So, my vote was to eliminate the "free" dining.

 

[eva]

Sorry, haven't had a chance to read all the response. But it is probably better that way. I voted to get rid of the free dining plan. But I wish I could vote to completely eliminate the dining plan all together. I feel it has really devalued food at WDW. The food has definitely taken a turn for the worse since we became members in 1997. We had no major complaints until the dining plan became available.

 

[Tigger1]

Not enough options to vote. Also, this poll might be a bit biased as DVC members do not get free dining. Maybe you should ask on the dining board.

My complaint with free dining is:
Its only offered during times I can not go to Disney.
I own DVC, free dining does not apply (would vote keep it if it did).
Restaurants are booked, have to plan ahead, would rather walk up and get table when I am ready to dine.

 

[DebbieB]

The interesting thing is the "free dining" you got 5 years ago is not the "free dining" you can get today. First, you have to pay rack rate for the room which has steadily increased each year and is in my opinion is too high for the type of room. The appetizer was eliminated. The tip is no longer included. The latest offer is the values and moderates only get the counter service plan free, so you have to pay more to upgrade to the regular dining plan. So you are paying far more for "free dining" now than 5 years ago. Disney has chipped away each year but people still want to go for it thinking they are getting a good deal.

 

[KandiB47]

How about leave it the way it is? I don't really care either way, it's just another promo.

I would have said this if it was an option. I don't feel like free dining affects me much even though I usually go during free dining times. I like the food but I am not a picky eater in the least bit, unfortunately

The only thing that bothers me is not getting the dining times I want.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Not enough options to vote. Also, this poll might be a bit biased as DVC members do not get free dining. Maybe you should ask on the dining board.

My complaint with free dining is:
Its only offered during times I can not go to Disney.
I own DVC, free dining does not apply (would vote keep it if it did).
Restaurants are booked, have to plan ahead, would rather walk up and get table when I am ready to dine.

The point IS that I wanted DVC member's input precisely because they don't get FD! I wanted to see if other DVC members (who happen to go to WDW much more frequently than non-members) felt the same ways about this I did.

The fact that you want to just walk up and be seated to dine is a reasonable expectation, and it is what I prefer to do as well. In fact, we did just that on our December trip....No pre-made ressies at all, and we never failed to be seated. The key was knowing to go during non-peak hours.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Oh, I remember when Coral Reef was a delicious place to eat, the lobster tails were fantastic, and yes for all of the duck lovers out there, I love Fois Gras and I miss it at Disney.

I'm not so against free dining/DDP, just if they could institute free dining/DDP menu options and then upscale menu options, similiarly to an early birds type of menu idea! That way those that want to participate in the DDP/FD would have options and those that want other upscale options wouldn't be left out.

I like your suggestion! I think the thing that has bothered us most about FD (and yes, DDP), is not only that the menus have been dumbed down, but also it has encouraged people to bring very young children to formerly more "white table cloth" adult venues. All WDW restaurants are and should be child friendly, but there have always been very few places where adults can go for a nice quiet evening out for a nice meal in a "white table cloth" type establishment. We used to be able to do that at Artist Point and Jiko, but that ended with the advent of FD and DDP. There is still Victoria and Albert's, but that is about it. Even Fultons mentioned by someone else earlier in this thread, has become less "special".

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I like your suggestion! I think the thing that has bothered us most about FD (and yes, DDP), is not only that the menus have been dumbed down, but also it has encouraged people to bring very young children to formerly more "white table cloth" adult venues. All WDW restaurants are and should be child friendly, but there have always been very few places where adults can go for a nice quiet evening out for a nice meal in a "white table cloth" type establishment. We used to be able to do that at Artist Point and Jiko, but that ended with the advent of FD and DDP. There is still Victoria and Albert's, but that is about it. Even Fultons mentioned by someone else earlier in this thread, has become less "special".

Exactly! People are in such a froth to get every bit of "value" out of their credits that they perform amazing feats to accomplish the goal. Overtired kids who are still full from the last meal ARE NOT pleasant dining companions.

 

[jarestel]

I'd like to add a fifth poll option: "Every DVC Member should get a pony."

I like ponies!

But they would probably end up on the menu as another cheap entree...

 

[keishashadow]

The interesting thing is the "free dining" you got 5 years ago is not the "free dining" you can get today. First, you have to pay rack rate for the room which has steadily increased each year and is in my opinion is too high for the type of room. The appetizer was eliminated. The tip is no longer included. The latest offer is the values and moderates only get the counter service plan free, so you have to pay more to upgrade to the regular dining plan. So you are paying far more for "free dining" now than 5 years ago. Disney has chipped away each year but people still want to go for it thinking they are getting a good deal.

yes, the dining plan has declined but the FDP is just a scapegoat for the decline. Guests can't tell they're receiving a dumbed-down experience if they've never dined @ many of the restaurants pre FDP and don't have a basis for comparision. The "if it's free, it's for me mentality" is hard to overcome for many, despite other offers being more cost efficient overall for their visit...not to mention they're paying rack rate (which DVC members don't nor is there ticket media costs involved). it could be argued DVC members are getting the better deal on the DP

The point IS that I wanted DVC member's input precisely because they don't get FD! I wanted to see if other DVC members (who happen to go to WDW much more frequently than non-members) felt the same ways about this I did.

The fact that you want to just walk up and be seated to dine is a reasonable expectation, and it is what I prefer to do as well. In fact, we did just that on our December trip....No pre-made ressies at all, and we never failed to be seated. The key was knowing to go during non-peak hours.

you'd be surprised how many members i've spoken to here do sneak down for additional CRO booked trips booked specifically to take advantage of the FDP.

jmho, the ability to book the DP is moreso a sales tool to overcome potential members' objections (they who are used to the DP). It's the most valuable perc for my needs, as we rarely utilize the AP discount, and I'd hate to see it disappear.

I voted for #2 -eliminate the signatures - but, have a feeling attendance would drop and overall profit margins would dip.

I don't cook on vacationbecause i'm 'on vacation'many here say they do utilize the kitchen. Unless the majority of DVC members do utilize TSs most nights of their vacation, i seriously doubt that our concerns are paramount as to the DP's operation in generalnevertheless, an interesting poll!

 

[tjkraz]

The latest offer is the values and moderates only get the counter service plan free, so you have to pay more to upgrade to the regular dining plan.

That's a really good point. If they are only giving free table service dining to Deluxe resort guests, that's a pretty steep drop in the audience. There are only about 6000-7000 Deluxe rooms vs 25,000+ property-wide.

In terms of general ADR availability, advance bookings are such a part of the WDW culture that I don't see "free dining" a particularly big impact. At Disneyland they only take reservations 60 days out and few people make much of a concerted effort. Sure DL attracts more locals, but there are also far fewer restaurants to fill.

People are so accustomed to booking ADRs months in advance for WDW and the popular restaurants will fill up regardless of whether the diners are paying full price or eating for free.

I'm just as upset as anyone over changes in food quality, portions, menus being trimmed down, etc. But I do think the situation is improving at SOME locations...and others we've simply learned to avoid.

We were at WDW last fall during the free dining period and didn't have any difficulties. Got the ADRs that we wanted including CRT and Chef Mickey's--although the food at CM left something to be desired.

I'm not trying to trivialize the issues that due still exist, but this really isn't the same "free dining" we saw 5-6 years ago.

 

[TisBit]

When you look at the profit margins associated with the DP and free dining, you can see why Disney has a hard time letting it go. If you buy the DP and pay $46 bucks a day to get two meals and snack...that is guaranteed money Disney and you get some type of assurances on what your costs will be. Even if you only break even, you feel confident in your vacation planning of the guaranteed prices. If everyone paid OOP, they are uncertain or ignorant of the food costs. So when they walk in and a meal costs 35 bucks per person, they are shocked and feel slighted by Disney (you hear this all the time on the restaurant boards as it is...disney charges too much, etc etc). Under the dining plan, someone feels they are getting over because they saved X number of dollars and with free dining they didn't pay anything (in their mind).

Guaranteed bookings is a huge draw, why hope that you will fill the restaurant when you can guarantee they are there. If people are paying OOP, they are more likely to compare off site restaurants to on site. If you think about the fact that Disney has a choice, increase food costs/quality and reduce bookings which decreases profits or maintain acceptable (not excellent) food standards and book the restaurant every night.....as the business owner, you have a hard time reducing profits.

Expiring credits....how many people let credits expire because they skipped a meal or didn't find a TS place to eat because they didn't make reservations. Now you are getting into pure profits for the company, not costs expended, but revenue came in. The DP is intentionally overloaded to make it difficult to eat the amount of food given...not to mention the time involved of a TS every night.

Yes, it would be nice to have some options that are not included in the DP...maybe one or two restaurants at each park that are reserved for cash guests, but I am not sure we will see it happen. I am not a dining plan person or go for free dining, but I understand the business concept. Especially some of the resort restaurants would have a very difficult time booking if it wasn't for the DP's and free dining, most people are in the parks for meals and not sitting at the resorts (esp moderates and values that are not close to the parks).

 

[La2kw]

Sorry, haven't had a chance to read all the response. But it is probably better that way. I voted to get rid of the free dining plan. But I wish I could vote to completely eliminate the dining plan all together. I feel it has really devalued food at WDW. The food has definitely taken a turn for the worse since we became members in 1997. We had no major complaints until the dining plan became available.

I agree. We spend very little time eating on site now. Prices are too high and the food is too crappy. Plus, the restaurants are so crowded now, it's no longer enjoyable. I loved it when we could go into an uncrowded restaurant for a leisurely, quiet lunch with enjoyable and unique menus. Now, the restaurants are crowded, noisy, serving poor quality food, and many of the unique ones are all character meals now. (CRT, Akershus, Crystal Palace) Dining at WDW is no longer fun, IMO.

 

[hakepb]

Exactly! People are in such a froth to get every bit of "value" out of their credits that they perform amazing feats to accomplish the goal. Overtired kids who are still full from the last meal ARE NOT pleasant dining companions.

While it would not solve everything,
As a parent, there should be 2 "golden rules" of restaurant service to families of children.
1) Never let a child sit at a table with no food/drink. There should always be something, at least crackers/water. Children tend to be a little more manageable when there is food in their mouths.
2) Don't make me wait another 30 minutes for a bill/pay. When the food's done, we want to leave. The longer the wait, the less the kids (and parents) care about behavior.

 

[dianeschlicht]

When you look at the profit margins associated with the DP and free dining, you can see why Disney has a hard time letting it go. If you buy the DP and pay $46 bucks a day to get two meals and snack...that is guaranteed money Disney and you get some type of assurances on what your costs will be. Even if you only break even, you feel confident in your vacation planning of the guaranteed prices. If everyone paid OOP, they are uncertain or ignorant of the food costs. So when they walk in and a meal costs 35 bucks per person, they are shocked and feel slighted by Disney (you hear this all the time on the restaurant boards as it is...disney charges too much, etc etc). Under the dining plan, someone feels they are getting over because they saved X number of dollars and with free dining they didn't pay anything (in their mind).

Guaranteed bookings is a huge draw, why hope that you will fill the restaurant when you can guarantee they are there. If people are paying OOP, they are more likely to compare off site restaurants to on site. If you think about the fact that Disney has a choice, increase food costs/quality and reduce bookings which decreases profits or maintain acceptable (not excellent) food standards and book the restaurant every night.....as the business owner, you have a hard time reducing profits.

Expiring credits....how many people let credits expire because they skipped a meal or didn't find a TS place to eat because they didn't make reservations. Now you are getting into pure profits for the company, not costs expended, but revenue came in. The DP is intentionally overloaded to make it difficult to eat the amount of food given...not to mention the time involved of a TS every night.

Yes, it would be nice to have some options that are not included in the DP...maybe one or two restaurants at each park that are reserved for cash guests, but I am not sure we will see it happen. I am not a dining plan person or go for free dining, but I understand the business concept. Especially some of the resort restaurants would have a very difficult time booking if it wasn't for the DP's and free dining, most people are in the parks for meals and not sitting at the resorts (esp moderates and values that are not close to the parks).

Yes, you are right on most all counts. Perceived value and real value are often miles apart.

I for one, WOULD eat on site more if the restaurants offered something unique and really good that I couldn't find anywhere else. It USED to be that way, and it is why we always looked forward to dining with Disney. That has changed greatly though over the past 8 years. We have found that quality and uniqueness disappearing more and more each year. Now it's to the point where we find that "special" part of Disney that we used to love to be nearly non-existent.

Just this year we found ourselves dining less and less at Disney and going off-site to find unique dining experiences.

I think there are many more of us who go to WDW regularly who would LOVE to stay on site for our meals if they offered that quality and uniqueness again. As Disney works so hard to attract the masses, they tend to lose those of us who have been most loyal throughout the years. Sad to say, but I probably will be cutting our Disney trips down to once a year again. That's what we used to do before DVC, and I can see us going back to that in the very near future. We already started cutting the length of our trips in the past two years, and the next thing will be the number of trips.

As I see it, Disney is losing a large part of loyal return crowd to a smaller and ever changing crowd of people who will likely go less often.

It's funny how some people will flock to the 'instant gratification' of an offering like FD and not see it for what it is....a marketing tool.

 

[robinb]

The point IS that I wanted DVC member's input precisely because they don't get FD! I wanted to see if other DVC members (who happen to go to WDW much more frequently than non-members) felt the same ways about this I did.

I think that some of the complaints about declining food quality are valid. However, because we DVC members go so often I think there is a "blush off the rose" component to the complaints as well. I remember when I first started to WDW regularly (as an adult with money to spend and a new DVC member) in 1997. Everything was new and wonderful to me. The variety of the restaurants seemed endless and almost everything was good and my DH and I ate out A LOT. We started to go back to our favorites (well before the current DDP or FD was in place) and we noticed that the meals were just not as good or magical as the first time we ate there. My memories of eating at California Grill or Boma or even Cape May for the first time are a lot better than the subsequent meals at each and every restaurant.

So, what I guess I am saying is that those of us who have gone to WDW for a long time have an ideal in our head about how the restaurants used to be when it was all new for us. The first time I had Chateaubriand at the YSH, the potato wrapped snapper at Flying Fish, planked salmon at AP, the onion rings at B&C ... they were all fab the first time I had them but I experienced at least a tiny bit of disappointment every time I have have had them since. They just didn't live up to the hype in my own head.

PS: I also want a pony.

 

[dpmfloyd]

That probably gets your vote because it doesn't look like you are a DVC member. I see only POP stays listed in your signature.

It gets my vote because it should be listed for a better understanding of how to gage the voting public.

So what if I'm not DVC, I'm entitled to an opinion - I'm sorry you feel the need to slight me for it.

 

[Geezer]

It gets my vote because it should be listed for a better understanding of how to gage the voting public.

So what if I'm not DVC, I'm entitled to an opinion - I'm sorry you feel the need to slight me for it.

Not a slight of you at all. Your comment would be appropriate if this poll was on the dining board or budget board, but it isn't. It's on the DVC board, and needs to be related to DVC or it would be moved to those other boards.

 

[Geezer]

It's funny how some people will flock to the 'instant gratification' of an offering like FD and not see it for what it is....a marketing tool.

It's a marketing tool that plays to the larger unfamiliar population. That's why we as DVC members who go often don't quite get what it is about.

 

[robinb]

Not a slight of you at all. Your comment would be appropriate if this poll was on the dining board or budget board, but it isn't. It's on the DVC board, and needs to be related to DVC or it would be moved to those other boards.

Where does it say that only DVC members can vote and comment? The DVC board is not exclusive to DVC members. Maybe dpmfloyd is thinking of becoming a DVC member or maybe s/he just wants to add their opinion to the mix. It's allowed.