Points that sound too good to be true

[flexsmom]

Doc - I'm curious about the DIS policy, based on all of the issues and comments in this thread. I understand that it is DIS policy not to interfere with the individual transactions between renter and rentee and that the rental board is here to facilitate this for us. But, let's say that absolute proof is received that someone posting points for rent turns out to be abusing people consistently - they aren't really a DVC member, for instance, or they repeatedly take deposits and don't follow through. If a poster was somehow otherwise commiting a crime or violating board rules - being vulgar, etc. - DIS would remove the post or bar the poster. Is there a point at which DIS will "bar" someone from the privilege of posting points for rent? Otherwise, it seems as if DIS is facilitating the crime.....? I would compare this to some other on-line 1st amendment problems and ethical questions going on about the roles and responsibilities of ISPs, but this is the DIS board, after all!!!

If this is a more appropriate question for a one-on-one, I do apologize in advance.

 

[ncligs]

Originally posted by flexsmom
If a poster was somehow otherwise commiting a crime or violating board rules - being vulgar, etc. - DIS would remove the post or bar the poster. Is there a point at which DIS will "bar" someone from the privilege of posting points for rent? Otherwise, it seems as if DIS is facilitating the crime.....?

Can't wait to hear the answer to the above question.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by flexsmom
Doc - I'm curious about the DIS policy, based on all of the issues and comments in this thread. I understand that it is DIS policy not to interfere with the individual transactions between renter and rentee and that the rental board is here to facilitate this for us. But, let's say that absolute proof is received that someone posting points for rent turns out to be abusing people consistently - they aren't really a DVC member, for instance, or they repeatedly take deposits and don't follow through. If a poster was somehow otherwise commiting a crime or violating board rules - being vulgar, etc. - DIS would remove the post or bar the poster. Is there a point at which DIS will "bar" someone from the privilege of posting points for rent? Otherwise, it seems as if DIS is facilitating the crime.....? I would compare this to some other on-line 1st amendment problems and ethical questions going on about the roles and responsibilities of ISPs, but this is the DIS board, after all!!!

If this is a more appropriate question for a one-on-one, I do apologize in advance.

If, by "absolute proof", you mean a decision in criminal court for something perpetrated on these boards, I'm sure that would influence that individual's ability to post here. If someone chooses to repeatedly violate our our board guidelines, they will definitely lose posting privilege- and this is covered in the agreement each of us accepted when registering for the site. Thus far, the only one to violate any guidelines in this dispute is the one who started this thread.

We have no way to determine whether any of us are really DVC members. You'll have to accept my word that I am a DVC member and I'll have to accept your's. If anyone has a suggestion of a way to positively identify who is and is not a member, please come forward.

As for the DIS "facilitating a crime", I have no evidence any "crime" being committed...and I have been in contact with both parties. If you have any evidence, please do come forward (please send any evidence privately rather than posting it publicly).

As for 1st amendment rights, this is a private website. The 1st amendment does provide a level of protection for any public comment or behavior, but does not provide the same protection on privately owned property. Each of us has agreed to abide by the site guidelines and the site is governed by those very guidelines. Violating those guidelines may have consequences.

If you do have any evidence of wrongdoing, please feel free to bring it forward privately. Any public comment you wish to make could open claims of libel or slander and you'll be on your own - 1st amendment or not.

 

[Sammie]

I think what Doc is saying and many are missing, that there is 2 sides to every story and one side has been posted and one has not.

He is saying that the guidelines on the Rent board state that the staff of DIS will not get involved and take sides in any dispute. Surely everyone can understand their reasoning for that.

The problem with Internet forums and I have seen this with posts against Cast Members at Disney, is that many are ready to immediately believe what is posted with only the one side they are given. I am not saying that OP is not correct, I am only saying we only know what is shared from one side.

I have witnessed this many times on this forum and knew first hand the poster was not giving the entire story, due to the fact I have many CM friends.

Best to take it all with a grain of salt, except for advice given by proven DIS staff such as Doc.

 

[Puffy2]

Ok, I think Doc has cleared up any possible question related to this issue. Boss, good luck with your situation.
In my opinion (for the little it's worth) I think we should all drop this for now.

 

[ohanafamily]

Boss, If it were me (and I have not looked up the thread in question, so my apologies if I am way off base) I would make sure Doc knows your apology was sincere. I would also compose a very tame (take about 500 breaths in between each word) post saying that you have had issues with the person involved that have yet to be resolved. I would also post a link to Docs advice.

I would PM it to him and ask him if it acceptable to allow you to post. Any Warning is better than being banned.

Judging from what Doc didn't say (between the lines) I would say that you are very passionate about Disney, but haven't quite gained control over your temper in your messages; Again, I would suggest waiting several minutes before posting an empassioned response.

This is a place where we support one another, and I certainly feel for you (and Rick too)... BUT if the DIS starts getting into these disputes, the whole website could wind up being shut dow due to litigation (or even worse, owned by the person who Boss has issues with.....)

Seriously, I would ask doc what kind of warning they will allow you to post. It does not have to be a nasty flame (Where's my G*D@$$ Money), it can be more like a rating.

JMHO,
Doc What do you think? How far can you let him go without compromising the sanctity of the Dis Staying out of if?

 

[Disney1fan2002]

Here is my 2 cents.... I don't think anyone renting points outside of a 30 day window should be asked to send money upfront. The DVC member has full control over the points, they can cancel the reservation if they don't get their money.

How to handle a reservation within 30 days of check-in. I do not know. I think you need to have a HUGE trust factor going on there. I myself would not rent to someone needing a last minute reservation unless I knew the person well, or he/she could supply me with a list of people that can give STRONG recommendations.

In DVC point transactions, I think the renter has the biggest risks. I know I ease the renter's fear right away when I insist on not taking any money until they have confirmation in hand. After they have the confirmation, if I don't get any money, I can cancel the reservation.

Maybe a new forum can be set up here on the DIS that allows people to post how their transactions went, whether good OR bad, and name names. Like a feedback forum on EBAY.

Kind of like " just wanted to let everyone know that I just got back from 10 great days at OKW. I rented points from JoeShmoe, he was terrific! I didn't have to worry one bit about my reservation. Great communicaton, and he was a wealth of advice. I highly recommend him if anyone is looking to rent points."

I know that the 1st time I rented points from someone, I worried until the minute we checked in, I had a deep seeded fear that I would show up to check in and my reservation would have been cancelled. It wasn't and now I can trustthe person 100%. Infact, I have had other dealings with him since. Something should be set up so people know whatthey are dealing with. And if we can't post on the rent/trade board because it is strictly a classified, then maybe another forum can be set up specifically for this?

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by Disney1fan2002

Maybe a new forum can be set up here on the DIS that allows people to post how their transactions went, whether good OR bad, and name names. Like a feedback forum on EBAY.

Something should be set up so people know whatthey are dealing with. And if we can't post on the rent/trade board because it is strictly a classified, then maybe another forum can be set up specifically for this?

Unlike Ebay- the DIS gets nothing but the satisfaction of providing this service. There are no financial benefits for the DIS.

When we tried to go to an auction format (like Ebay) the suggestion was met with loud outcry and complaint from those who frequent the Rent/Trade Board- long before any details had even been released. No changes were made after the vocal complaints received. Adding another forum for this purpose is not likely to happen- especially in light of the prior response to any change.

Posts praising rental transactions have always been welcome right here on the DVC Board- and have often been made. Posts pointing out problems have been non-existent until now, but this forum is also appropriate for that discussion as long as no site guidelines are violated.

Having heard from both sides in this issue, I am still optimistic that everything will be fine. Hopefully that will be the case.

 

[lat]

BossBrody, any update? I sincerely hope that it is working out somehow.

 

[dolphinea]

Doc and other administrators,

www.dizpins.com has a great feedback system set up for internet pin traders. There aren't any comments allowed, and no negative feedback, it's just a list of "references", so if you have traded with someone and you liked your interaction, you go and leave them a reference.

If anyone had questions about a trader, they can go look at the references, and then email people who've traded with him/her in the past.

I'm sure the Dizpins website people would be generous with you re. sharing the script and setup for the forms they use.

~Amanda

 

[fkj2]

No one has been banned from the site (if that were the case- this thread couldn't have been posted[/QUOTE...

I have to admit I thought I was toast here; I'm one of the guilty ones for violating the "I sent you a PM" rule and got a FINAL warning about it. Now, I scrutinize just about every post I write.

In a way, it's a surprise this hasn't happened before now. We've all seen posts from people who rented $5 points, or $7 points and that they're available if you get lucky and just happen to catch someone with "distressed points," with some DVC members advocating that that's all the points are worth. Some people even post that that's what they're looking for. Hey, everyone wants a bargain, including me, but it should be a red flag when points, even those for outside the DVC itself, are so reasonable.

I always offer references to someone who inquires about renting points from me. Have had some turn me down; that almost makes me nervous.

I hope you get your money back. Things like this just ruin it for honest renters/rentees. Vacations should be fun and not filled with the stress of "Will I have a room when I get there?"

 

[Ilovedisney]

This situation is just a shame, possibly for both parties, however, I do believe it hurts more in one's wallet. Unfortunately, we only have one side of the story, when there are actually three sides to every story. 1) Your side, 2) Their side, and 3) The Truth. You see everyone sees things differently and interprets things differently. This does not mean that everyone involved is not telling the truth, it just means that they each see things from a different perspective. I hope it works out for all involved parties, because that is always the best solution to a problem.

 

[ohanafamily]

Ilovedisney

That is suspiciously close to a Vorlon saying; are you by chance a Babylon 5 fan?

 

[Poorman]

I just posted a note to check this thread if you wanted to rent those points. It was deleted by the moderators. I guess it is buyer beware when renting points from people on this board.
It really gets my dander up when someone renting points gets reamed. When I rent points to someone I bend over backwards to make the renter feel comfortable. How someone can ,alegedly(sp.), do what he is doing hurts us all.


Just my two cents.

Rich

 

[Ilovedisney]

Hi ohanafamily
sorry to disappoint you, but the answer is no. I never even watched the show. It was a show, wasn't it?

 

[ohanafamily]

Me as well Poorman, but if you look at the number of times the Innocent-until-prooven-guilty person offering to rent reservation points has posted, there is something funny about what he is doing. He must be reselling rented points at the very minimum, unless he has planned and messed up several trips. Either way, I am not sure I would want to deal with him. whether it is not understanding the point system with several trips and a vast amount of points, overextending trips several times, or flagrant misrepresentation the shear number of posts by him with varying numbers of points should be a red flag at this point.

I do not know him personally, and would love for him to come to this forum and explain his side. I would also love for him and boss to settle their differences (and Bosses promised praise/apology), but I don't think it will happen.

Hey Bossman, could he be re-selling rented points and made the reservation under someone elses number?????? It's a thought and a possible place for a misunderstanding.....

 

[Poorman]

Ohana,
If he is not a DVC member he can't make ressie, if he is and rented points from someone else he still can't make ressies with those points,unless they were transferred, then they are as they were his.


Gives honest people that rent points a black eye.

Rich

 

[TheRustyScupper]

1) I would call the prosecutor in the city of the offender.
2) This could also be federal.
3) Without knowing the true law
. . . mail fraud (don't know if UPS would qualify)?
. . . wire fraud (internet posting)?

NOTE:This is STRICTLY a lay-person's view. I do not claim to be a lawyer or give legal advice. I only say talking to a prosecutor might be worth the phone call.

 

[ohanafamily]

I am just trying to find a way that this could be an honest misunderstanding, I tend to want to believe the best in people.



BTW Ilovedisney, it was a great TV series. Too Bad it finished its run, and on the sequel series the network demanded the Exec Producer (JMS) add more sex and violence. JMS refused, and they cut his show midseason.

 

[ohanafamily]

Hey Boss, one more thing, Maybe you could get Doc to negottiate a settlement without taking it to court?

Also, I am curios, anybody else on this thread been Bitten by this person?

I have not, but if there are several complaints I think they might look more kindly into posting a warning on his thread than just one person against him.

Also, if you had an actual sworn police report, it might give them a reason to allow a warning posted on his thread. A judgement against him would be better.

The sad thing is, he can set up a new hotmail account and be back in business under another aliias in an hour.

Gee, I am getting depressed now...