Please weigh in on sensitive family situation

[Acklander]

Acklander,

But she IS threatening to separating her son from from his father and his family over Christmas

She is not in a relationship with her son's father at this time, so either way, she won't be spending the holidays with him. So I don't see the threat there.

She is in a relationship with the new person and is planning on spending the holidays with her. She's not threatening it, this is what she plans on doing.

The question is, will it be ok to spend that time with HER family since she'll have her new friend with her. I'm just saying that if it were my sister who was bringing someone new to Christmas (male or female) I would accept it because I love my sister.
Maybe the new relationship will work out, maybe it won't BUT her sister will know that she was there for her while she was going through a confusing time in her life.
If she doesn't invite her sister and her new friend to the family Christmas, that's going to be hanging over the sisters relationship in the future. I'm just saying that I love my sister enough that I wouldn't want to jepordize our relationship over something stupid like inviting someone over for Christmas.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I'm just saying that I love my sister enough that I wouldn't want to jepordize our relationship over something stupid like inviting someone over for Christmas.

I love my sister, but I love my extended family as well. If this were so simple as inviting someone over for Christmas, what I'd probably do is have an additional small Christmas gathering of people (preferably younger) that I'd include my sister's new GF in on.

However, if we're talking extended family members whom I ALSO love dearly, with older people who have deeply rooted beliefs in the sanctity of marriage as well as deeply rooted beliefs (right or wrong) regarding the homosexual revolution, I'd have to consider their comfort levels and my relationship with them as well.

I'm not going to be placed in a position where someone I love demands that I take sides. If my sister, whom I love dearly, gave me an ultimatum that I had to invite her to a traditional family gathering with her new lesbian partner otherwise I didn't love her and wasn't supporting her, she'd get standard lecture #49 about how just because I wasn't doing what she wants doesn't mean I don't love her. She can deal with that as she chooses. Ditto for older family members.

It seems that the OP's sister isn't demanding that, though. It appears that she's "taking the temperature" of her family's feelings by asking her sister how she'd feel if she brought her new lesbian GF to their traditional family gathering. The sister has offered an "out" for her sibling: I can make other plans if you don't think it's a good idea.

It is my opinion that the sister hosting should take the "out" and tell her sister to have a wonderful trip with her new lover. There will be other Christmas gatherings. This isn't the be-all, end-all gathering and it will keep as much peace as possible in the extended family.

That's what I would do. What the OP does will be whatever is best for her family. She knows them better than I do.

**Edited to Add**

Ok, I've gone back and read ONLY the OP's posts. As usual on the DIS, things got blown way out of proportion and I was mixing in other people's posts when I was evaluating my stand on this.

It seems that the gathering we're speaking of was small to begin with: OP, her mother and her sister's family, which included her BIL of 21 years. That gathering has been irrevocably changed due to the new dynamic of the sister leaving her husband and starting a relationship with a woman about a month ago (September?). The sister is now demanding that she bring her new lover to the small traditional gathering on Christmas eve or she's not coming.

OP doesn't seem to have any issues with the lesbian thing, only that the dynamic of these three people and their tradition has changed and she feels under pressure. The nephew will feel the change as well, even if the lover doesn't participate, because it used to be just him, his parents, his aunt and his grandmother. Now it would be him, his mother, aunt and grandmother.

I'd have to say that the tradition is now dead and it's time for a new tradition.

I also stand by my previous opinion about people who give ultimatums and insist to me I don't love them because I won't do what they want me to do. I refuse to be coerced in that manner and won't be controlled by other people who insist that I have to prove my love for them. It didn't work when I was a teenager in the back seat of a car and it won't work now.

 

[Wishing on a star]

She is not in a relationship with her son's father at this time, so either way, she won't be spending the holidays with him. So I don't see the threat there.

Just because SHE is not in a relationship with her son's father, does not mean the he should not be able to see his father at Christmas....
Yes, it is definite threat to take the son on a trip, where he would be separated from his father and other family members.
I can only assume that one who doesn't 'see' this is choosing to be blind.
This mother is choosing the agenda of her and her 'lover/mistress' over the best interests of her son.

Look, if you are all for total acceptance... fine...
I posted earlier that I am 50/50 on that one.
I can see justification for inviting, sight unseen.
And I can see justification for not wishing to invite this new person.

However, do not even begin to pretend that the whole "I get my way or I am going to take my son with me and my lover on a trip" would NOT be separating him and keeping him from his father and other extended family members who love him at Christmas....

And, from the info posted, this is, quite clearly, the already preconceived and layed out stance of the sister.

We can agree to have different opinions...
but don't mess with the facts.

 

[hambirg]

BIL needs to hoof on down to the courthouse, file for legal separation, and establish a visitation order. No matter how much the sister threatens to take her son away with her new lover at Christmas, if the family doesn't welcome her with open arms. . .she may not legally be able to do that.

She made some bad choices, when she left her child behind. It sounds like Dad is in physical custody of the child. He really has the upper hand right now. If he gets an order. . .and given the situation, that is not unreasonable at all. . .she may not be able to even spend the holidays with her son, let alone take him on a vacation.

Honestly, the Mom needs a wake up call. We all know marriages sometimes come to an end, but the way she has gone about this really makes her look bad and can have some serious consequences down the road.

 

[Colleen27]

I personally wouldn't be comfortable with my married sibling bringing a date other than his/her spouse to a family holiday celebration, particularly with the separation being very new and there being a child to consider. I can't imagine that her teenage son is looking forward to Christmas with Mom & her girlfriend; she should be thinking about how to navigate this change with the least upheaval to his life and traditions rather than how to come out and introduce her new lover to the family.

 

[Wishing on a star]

BIL needs to hoof on down to the courthouse, file for legal separation, and establish a visitation order. No matter how much the sister threatens to take her son away with her new lover at Christmas, if the family doesn't welcome her with open arms. . .she may not legally be able to do that.

She made some bad choices, when she left her child behind. It sounds like Dad is in physical custody of the child. He really has the upper hand right now. If he gets an order. . .and given the situation, that is not unreasonable at all. . .she may not be able to even spend the holidays with her son, let alone take him on a vacation.

Honestly, the Mom needs a wake up call. We all know marriages sometimes come to an end, but the way she has gone about this really makes her look bad and can have some serious consequences down the road.

VERY WELL SAID!

Maybe the OP is still reading.....

At this point, christmas dinner is probably the least of any issues.
There seems to be a lot going on.
And, something just seems 'off'.

 

[CarmenPeteron]

You might as well let her bring her girlfriend to the dinner if you want to maintain a relationship with her. You might want to let other family members know so that they will not be dumbfounded.

 

[Disney Doll]

I only got as far as page three and found that my answer hadn't changed so I'm going to post it and then go back and read the other pages.

My answer for bringing the new lesbian friend to a family Christmas party a month after a 21 year marriage broke up would be to tell the sister to make other plans this year if she insisted on bringing her new lover. If she and her lover were still together next year, and depending on how other members of the family felt about the relationship, of course she'd be welcome next year.

Everyone seems so eager to bend over backward for homosexual couples. It seems that they're so willing to show that they're not homophobic that they'll go to extreme lengths to publicly forgive any behavior homosexuals exhibit just so they won't be called homophobic.

But we're not talking about dressing unusually, body piercings or PDAs here. We're talking about someone who continued on with a broken relationship for whatever reason while they began their "real" relationship with someone else. This tells me that the person will be deceitful and is likely to be a user of others to get what she wants until she decides she's gotten all she can and now wants to discontinue the prior relationship. This speaks to a personal character trait rather than a sexual preference.

Not to mention that other family members will also be there; some who may not be as accepting of a homosexual relationship. Especially so soon after a long-term heterosexual relationship was ended.

If the tables were turned and your sister's husband announced after 21 years and children that he was pretending all along, he was gay, and he wanted a divorce and to bring his new lover to the annual family Christmas party, how would many of us actually feel about that? Not speaking for other people, I'd be pretty damn angry, hurt and feel violated for my sister because she'd been living with a liar all these years.

A liar who was using her as his beard so he could get ahead without having to jump the hurdles that out-of-the-closet homosexuals had to jump.

If this were my situation and it turned out to be my sister who felt this way....well, actually I wouldn't be in this situation. I'm close to my sister and would probably have known already that she was a lesbian. The family would probably already know because we're kind of close that way.

However, if it were a cousin or someone like that, I'd probably tell them they'd want to make other plans for this year and we'll try it again next year. This is a family blow-up waiting to happen and I wouldn't want it happening in my house during one of the most sacred holidays for our family.

If she wanted to call me homophobic, that's fine. She can feel however she likes; doesn't make it true. But I have a limit to how much drama I'm willing to endure for family gatherings and I'm not going to allow my home to become a soundstage for someone else's soap opera.

I agree with this.
Might I also add that accepting a homosexual relationship, especiialy one in a person who you thought was heterosexual, is not as cut and dried as everyone thinks.

My best friend since childood discovered she was gay when we hit 40. She had a husband and 3 children. It caused great upheaval. She sort of had the expectation that everyone was oging to be like "Oh great!" when all this was happening, and move along like it was no big deal.

Well, let me tell you, it wasn't easy.

First, she was cheating. MY opinion, that's wrong.
Second, her partner was cheating with a married person. MY opinion, that's wrong. I have had offers to cheat with married people when I was single and I did not taken them.
Third, she was changing her sexual orientation, or at least her sexual orientation as we had known it, as she had lived it, for many years. Not wrong, but still a shock to many people. Sexual orientation is a major part of one's persona. This was a HUGELY UNEXPECTED development, and to expect family and friends to be like "Oh OK, great" shortly after a change like that is a bit much to expect, IMHO. People need time to process things. It doesn't mean they are bad people, it doesn't mean they are homophobic, it doesn't mean they won't support her new life, it just means that they need time to process what is a major change. Yes, it means they need to change their perception.
Fourth, my friend's change in her persona completely changed the rest of her life. She became enmeshed in everything gay to the exclusion of everything and everyone else. I lost my best friend. When she had a husband, I was her best girlfriend...we talked about the girly stuff that one just doesn't necessarily discuss with their husband. When she got a female partner, that woman became everything to her...spouse, lover, best girlfriend. She didn't really need me for the "girl talk"...she had her. So I was slowly squeezed out of the picture. I didn't fit into the whole "gay lifestyle" thing, what with me having a husband and all, so I was the one pushed away. And I'm sure she thinks it's because I didn't approve of her being gay or I didn't approve of her wife, but really, the prevailing attitude was "I know you just found out about this 10 seconds ago but you have to love and accept everything about me, my partenr and my new lifestyle right now".

She and her new partner ultimately "married" (in quotes because in their state the marriage was not legal, but was symbolic for them) and stayed married for about 4-5 years. I did go to the wedidng. They split up last year and now she is in a relationship with another woman, although she has been to know to admit that she is actually bisexul. It was a very difficult time in my life and everyone else's who was involved in this...it was amazing how one person could implode so much stuff around them.

So OP...I'd say in the interest of time and everyone's acceptance of this new situation, I would probably say no, you're new partner is not welcome this year for the holiday.

 

[luvsJack]

Everyone is putting way too many judgement calls in this decision. If most families took away inviations to family events based on who is or who isn't doing something that is either immoral, a sin or just wrong--there would be some pretty lonely family events going on.

The OP can love her sister and still consider her sister a part of the family without loving her sister's actions. And personally, that is probably the message I would give my sister. Being a part of a family means being welcome at family events.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

We had a similar situation, although it was all heterosexual, and the split up happened in August. Besides that, it was basically the same

Invite everybody. It's Christmas. Let everyone know that everyone is invited. Suggest that maybe they should stagger their visits so they aren't at the house at the same time, unless they all feel comfortable being together.

The way we did this was to have more of a "open house" buffet instead of a traditional sitdown dinner. Everyone wandered in, gave gifts, ate, and left as they wanted. This worked well for us because we didn't have a lot of room in our dining room to begin with, we didn't have to deal with the fact that some members of our family can't get anywhere on time, and also allowed people to leave early, come late, and chose who they talked to. We liked it so much, we are doing it again this year.

 

[Jennasis]

Everyone is putting way too many judgement calls in this decision. If most families took away inviations to family events based on who is or who isn't doing something that is either immoral, a sin or just wrong--there would be some pretty lonely family events going on.

The OP can love her sister and still consider her sister a part of the family without loving her sister's actions. And personally, that is probably the message I would give my sister. Being a part of a family means being welcome at family events.

Perhaps....my sister is always welcome. Her homewrecking new gf/bf? Possibly not.

 

[Debbie7452]

OP, I am beginning to wonder......
Have these kinds of drama and demands been your sister's usual demeanor, mode of operatation?????

I am beginning to wonder about this new person and their influence here.

It is entirely reasonable for her hope that her new SO might be invited.
But, she should be able to put her SON first.... (whether or not this new person is invited this year)
To me, as a parent, the only reasonable way to handle the situation would be this:
She should be able to tell her SO, "Look, I have a son, it is important for him to spend time with his father and extended family.... Especially this year, while we are going thru all of this... so, my son and I will have to be in town on this particular day"... (Christmas, Christmas Eve, whenever)

Something seems off here.
I am wondering if it could be her new SO who is putting her in this unfortunate position????

Sorry, I am just now catching up with my thread. I didn't dream it would get this long! This poster really hit home. My sister has always been a little unreliable and, I don't know how to put it... flaky? But this recent behaivor is completely out of character. She has always bent over backwards for us and she has a good heart, I promise. I know I need to talk to her more and hopefully in person. I am worried that this ultimatum is coming from her new SO. She explained that she needed to know now, so she could "make plans".

I have talked to my DH and Mom and my older kids(16, 18). I agree this is not my own decision by a long shot. My Mom needs time to think about it and digest. I was surprised that my Mom did not know, yet. So apparently, I was one of the first to be told. I sure hope that my BIL and nephew have been informed.

 

[luvsJack]

Perhaps....my sister is always welcome. Her homewrecking new gf/bf? Possibly not.

So we assume that the woman knew sis was married? And we assume that nothing but this relationship wrecked the marriage?

Adultery is rarely the only reason for ruining a marriage. It is usually a symptom of something else being wrong. Whether that "wrong" was that sis was gay all along, we don't know.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I don't think it is my family's responsibility to accept (and therefore, encourage) whatever bad behavior I decide to dish out to people. Isn't ANYONE allowed to have limits anymore?

I agree. Loving family is necessary and important. Not judging or condeming is also important. But that doesn't mean you always have to accept the actions of a family member as being OK. Not everything is OK.

We had the same thing happen in our family. My children are aware that we all love said family member, but that she also made a poor choice by leaving her husband and moving in with someone else before getting a divorce. We make sure they understand it doesn't mean we don't love said person. She is just bad at being in relationships. It's an object lesson.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I don't see why telling the dsis her new gf can't go to a family gathering so soon is being judgmental. And I don't think any kids would want to hang out with the person who broke up their parent's marriage. He may never accept this person, just because of this. But he is not going to want to be around his mom in her new crush stage of a relationship. I don't think I'd ask the nephew what he wants. That's putting way too much pressure on him. Do you really want to say to him, if it's ok with you your mom can bring her friend, if not she can't and then she'll do a holiday away? He's going to feel guilt-ed into saying it's ok. You can talk to him and make sure he's doing ok. But it's possible that your sis hasn't told him what's going on either.
I'm sure this is not the reason the marriage ended. But it's certainly a contributing factor and shows poor decision making and dishonesty. I'm sure her dh isn't blameless. But I have been around men who cheat on wife and leave the family. They live in a fantasy land, denying the fact that they are hurting people, defending the fact that they deserve to be happy, pointing out some of their spouse's failings, etc.. Eventually the bubble bursts. It's the same thing. When we are in a new relationship high we don't always think clearly.

 

[bumbershoot]

Omg...I would have been livid if any of my family invited my ex over for dinner. That is not ok...you may not like the choice, but I'm sorry...you chose family first and her ex (even if the divorce is not final) is not family anymore.

I am SO glad that my dad's family didn't feel the way you do. They weren't perfect, but the family that was geographically closest to us really supported me and my brother, acted as a safe haven for us when my mom needed help and my dad was being a jerk, and even allowed my mom to go to dinner etc with them. They still loved my dad, but my dad was absolutely a guilty party, and I'm so glad that they were able to open their lives to my mom and to me and my brother, instead of just saying "oh well the marriage is over, Judy's dead to us now".

Had to interrupt my reading to reply to that, it messed with my head SO bad!

After 21 years of being part of a family, the not-quite-ex-husband is absolutely PART of the family! A girlfriend of a month or so isn't. Might become family, so you don't want to be horrid to her, but it doesn't mean you just turn your back on the man that's been a part of the family for so long.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I am SO glad that my dad's family didn't feel the way you do. They weren't perfect, but the family that was geographically closest to us really supported me and my brother, acted as a safe haven for us when my mom needed help and my dad was being a jerk, and even allowed my mom to go to dinner etc with them. They still loved my dad, but my dad was absolutely a guilty party, and I'm so glad that they were able to open their lives to my mom and to me and my brother, instead of just saying "oh well the marriage is over, Judy's dead to us now".

Had to interrupt my reading to reply to that, it messed with my head SO bad!

After 21 years of being part of a family, the not-quite-ex-husband is absolutely PART of the family! A girlfriend of a month or so isn't. Might become family, so you don't want to be horrid to her, but it doesn't mean you just turn your back on the man that's been a part of the family for so long.

If your nephew is even a bit of a decent person it's partly due to this bil. He is family, unless he hurt your sis. Then he'd better watch his back. He belongs at the dinner, if he chooses.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I don't see why telling the dsis her new gf can't go to a family gathering so soon is being judgmental.

I suppose it would depend on your reasoning as to WHY the lover isn't invited.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I suppose it would depend on your reasoning as to WHY the lover isn't invited.

I guess you are right. If it's just because it's a woman it's being judgmental. If it is because she just left her husband, divorce isn't even begun, she has a son, her family needs a bit of time to process it all, and it's a small family dinner it's not being judgmental. Well, maybe it is a bit in that you are saying I do wish you had gone about this in a better way. Let's wait until you've been seeing each other a bit and it's not the holidays before we do the big family dinner. How bout if I meet the new gf for coffee or drinks, or she comes over on New Years instead? Instead of seeing it as judgmental I see it as using your judgment that this behavior was harmful, maybe to dsis too. Let's try to minimize the damage by exercising caution in when to bring the new gf into the family.
I am judging the cheating. It's wrong to cheat. If the new gf becomes permanent, I'm sure she would appreciate in ten years that the family has a set of standards and feels that cheating is wrong. Again, don't be mean to sis or the new gf. Try to be caring.
Eventually if the gf is permanent people will have to accept her. But first they need to process the changes.

 

[onelilspark]

I've read the first and last page. If it were my brother (I don't have a sister, so I'm going with what I know...) and he left his wife, moved in with a man, had that relationship going, etc. Called me up to ask if his new partner could come to Christmas dinner...I wouldn't hesitate. No matter what my relationship with his ex-wife was, no matter how much I liked her, she is not my blood. My brother will come first every time. If they had children, I would certainly invite the children, but ultimately, whether or not the ex comes would be entirely up to my brother, not me. I would invite my brother, and whoever he chose to bring along.