Please weigh in on sensitive family situation

[bumbershoot]

So we assume that the woman knew sis was married? And we assume that nothing but this relationship wrecked the marriage?

Adultery is rarely the only reason for ruining a marriage. It is usually a symptom of something else being wrong. Whether that "wrong" was that sis was gay all along, we don't know.

I definitely agree with this.



OP part of my ultimate answer would involve knowing what sort of wedding ceremony your sister and her husband had. If they involved a "charge" to the attendants, if they asked the people there to help them in their marriage, then I become even more hesitant to invite the brand new girlfriend to THIS holiday celebration. My best friend was 100% shocked at how FEW people wanted to support her and her husband's marriage, when they hit the skids. Apart from her wacky mom (who has managed to convince herself that my friend was the first divorce in her family, when there had already been THREE divorces from 2 of the friend's older sisters), I was the ONLY one who wanted to support my friend as she fought desperately to save her marriage. Her other friends and family wanted her to kick him to the curb immediately and did NOT support her in going to counseling with her husband. But they had had a "charge" to the congregation, and I wanted to help with that.

Now, I know that this situation isn't just a *choice* situation (beyond choosing to *start* the relationship so quickly), not if she's finally realized, or finally decided she can't take it anymore, that she's not heterosexual. But you can still support that this marriage ends gracefully, not in a flurry of activity including having confused and confusing family gatherings with a near stranger attending.

Supporting that, saying "THIS year is just too soon", isn't horrible to me. But I take this stuff rather seriously; hubby and I split while engaged, and while we decided if we were going to get back together, we didn't go to functions together. And once we decided we would work it out, we told everyone ahead of time, we didn't just expect that I would be accepted at his family's house or his friends' parties without allowing them the opportunity to OK it. (the breakup was mainly his fault, he freaked out, but F&F had heard only bad things about me for a couple months beforehand, as he played up my bad aspects...and it took them quite awhile to realize that he'd been fudging the truth quite a bit)

I've also been, sigh, in the new girlfriend's position, with a person wanting to bring me somewhere while we were brand new and friends or family was still reeling from the end of the previous relationship. It's NOT a fun position to be in, it makes people VERY uncomfortable...I advice fully against it from that side as well.

When there's a breakup, friends and family mourn too (unless they hated the ex), and even if the person directly involved feels ready to move on (most people in my experience feel this way FAR too soon), I think they need to respect that their friends and family might not be.


This nephew might actually do better from now, though. In my experience, my husband's, my mom's...every time someone in our lives came out of the closet, it was never a big surprise, and often came with a relief. A "so that's what was going on" feeling. My husband's brother was outed at 20ish, and when that happened, my husband (who was only 11 or so) thought "yep, makes sense". When BIL dated women it never seemed OK, it always felt strange to my husband. My mom was the first person an old old friend came out to (they'd gone to K together and knew each other all their lives after that until he died), he thought she would be shocked, but she wasn't, she knew and was just waiting for him to know. So I think it's possible taht the nephew has felt something off, knew of a tension, even if he didn't KNOW. When I was a kid from 9ish to 17, my mom was dating then married to a man, and they had a bad relationship. They hid it, almost always (I remember one overt fight, and sadly that started b/c of something I did, and THAT will mess with a kid, let me tell you! ), but the house always felt WEIRD. Once he was gone, it was like we could breathe again, but we hadn't known we were holding our breath.

So the nephew might have had problems b/c there were some pretty deep and profound problems in the foundation of the marriage of his parents itself. And maybe now that his mom has figured this out, or has admitted what she might have known for years, maybe now he'll be more OK. One hopes.



But THIS holiday season, unless there can be some casual lunches/coffees/etc between sister and the various family members, just seems too soon for the doors to be flung open for the new girlfriend.

 

[rie'smom]

Sorry, I am just now catching up with my thread. I didn't dream it would get this long! This poster really hit home. My sister has always been a little unreliable and, I don't know how to put it... flaky? But this recent behaivor is completely out of character. She has always bent over backwards for us and she has a good heart, I promise. I know I need to talk to her more and hopefully in person. I am worried that this ultimatum is coming from her new SO. She explained that she needed to know now, so she could "make plans".

I have talked to my DH and Mom and my older kids(16, 18). I agree this is not my own decision by a long shot. My Mom needs time to think about it and digest. I was surprised that my Mom did not know, yet. So apparently, I was one of the first to be told. I sure hope that my BIL and nephew have been informed.

The part I've highlighted made me remember my friend's situation because she had told her brothers but not her mom. Her mom found out by surprise too. The thing is she was a lesbian and then she wasn't- like Anne Heche.
I would tread carefully with you BIL. My friend decided she was a lesbian after being married for 23 years and 2 kids. She went merrily along for about 6 months and then decided hey, I'm not a lesbian I was just having a midlife crisis. Her husband took her back and they've been together for 33 years.
Point is don't be too quick to think her husband is completely out of the picture. Doing something that might hurt him could bite you later.

 

[sturdypeasantstock]

It's rough, but she is your sister, and it is Christmas. Welcome her and her GF. Maintain a cordial relationship with your former BIL, he's your nephew's father.

 

[hambirg]

So we assume that the woman knew sis was married? And we assume that nothing but this relationship wrecked the marriage?

Adultery is rarely the only reason for ruining a marriage. It is usually a symptom of something else being wrong. Whether that "wrong" was that sis was gay all along, we don't know.

I really cannot believe that this new love interest didn't know she was married. How can you have a serious relationship with somebody and never be allowed to go to their house? Or call them and not have them pick up. Or ever meet their kid? So I'm not buying that.

And we're not saying that the relationship wrecked the marriage. The marriage was probably over regardless. But any sensible person with children deals with ending the marriage first. . .one thing at a time. It is NOT ok to subject your children to that. Nor is it fair to your spouse of 21yrs to not be honest and forthcoming.

Just because you love your sister does not mean you have to condone her behavior. I honestly think it IS because you LOVE her that you don't! She is on a self destructive path. She started something that she had NO business starting regardless of her sexual orientation. She LEFT her child behind! And for what? Lust? Statistics show that this new relationship may not even last til Christmas. That's usually how these things play out. Even though she has come to grips with her orientation, the grass wasn't greener. This new gal isn't all she's making her out to be, and she will eventually realize what she has done.

The OP has said her sister is acting out of character. Everyone knows that this isn't right. If she truly wasn't happy in her marriage because she realized that she's gay. . .then she openly and honestly ends her marriage. It's what is best for her, her child and the man that was there for her for 21yrs. After the dust has settled, then she is free to introduce her new love interest.

This isn't about being gay. . .or about how you support your family. It IS about what is right or wrong and how you respectfully deal with your loved ones. Her DH and her son deserve her love and respect. . .this new person can go bite wind until that situation has been properly dealt with.

And btw. . .if this new love is really that deserving of her love, than she would understand that! She would be supporting her fully in her making this difficult transition. That doesn't sound like that is the case at all. "Your family better accept me right now, or else." Well. . .guess what Dorthy? You're not in Kansas anymore. Nobody makes me accept infidelity and deceitfulness. . .especially not in my home over Christmas.

 

[Jennasis]

So we assume that the woman knew sis was married? And we assume that nothing but this relationship wrecked the marriage?

Adultery is rarely the only reason for ruining a marriage. It is usually a symptom of something else being wrong. Whether that "wrong" was that sis was gay all along, we don't know.

I'm assuming lots of things! But I am TELLING YOU...beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I would not invite my sister to bring her new "love of my life" to Christmas dinner under the circumstances the OP describes.

What the OP should do is whatever is right for her and her family.

 

[MichelleVW]

I've read the first and last page. If it were my brother (I don't have a sister, so I'm going with what I know...) and he left his wife, moved in with a man, had that relationship going, etc. Called me up to ask if his new partner could come to Christmas dinner...I wouldn't hesitate. No matter what my relationship with his ex-wife was, no matter how much I liked her, she is not my blood. My brother will come first every time. If they had children, I would certainly invite the children, but ultimately, whether or not the ex comes would be entirely up to my brother, not me. I would invite my brother, and whoever he chose to bring along.

Yep, that's how I feel too...

 

[luvsJack]

I really cannot believe that this new love interest didn't know she was married. How can you have a serious relationship with somebody and never be allowed to go to their house? Or call them and not have them pick up. Or ever meet their kid? So I'm not buying that.

And we're not saying that the relationship wrecked the marriage. The marriage was probably over regardless. But any sensible person with children deals with ending the marriage first. . .one thing at a time. It is NOT ok to subject your children to that. Nor is it fair to your spouse of 21yrs to not be honest and forthcoming.

Just because you love your sister does not mean you have to condone her behavior. I honestly think it IS because you LOVE her that you don't! She is on a self destructive path. She started something that she had NO business starting regardless of her sexual orientation. She LEFT her child behind! And for what? Lust? Statistics show that this new relationship may not even last til Christmas. That's usually how these things play out. Even though she has come to grips with her orientation, the grass wasn't greener. This new gal isn't all she's making her out to be, and she will eventually realize what she has done.

The OP has said her sister is acting out of character. Everyone knows that this isn't right. If she truly wasn't happy in her marriage because she realized that she's gay. . .then she openly and honestly ends her marriage. It's what is best for her, her child and the man that was there for her for 21yrs. After the dust has settled, then she is free to introduce her new love interest.

This isn't about being gay. . .or about how you support your family. It IS about what is right or wrong and how you respectfully deal with your loved ones. Her DH and her son deserve her love and respect. . .this new person can go bite wind until that situation has been properly dealt with.

And btw. . .if this new love is really that deserving of her love, than she would understand that! She would be supporting her fully in her making this difficult transition. That doesn't sound like that is the case at all. "Your family better accept me right now, or else." Well. . .guess what Dorthy? You're not in Kansas anymore. Nobody makes me accept infidelity and deceitfulness. . .especially not in my home over Christmas.

I don't necessarily think that anything the woman is doing is right. She probably could have chosen to do most of it in a better way. I am simply saying that she is the OP's sister. She will always be the OP's sister. If my sister had to ask me this question my answer would be "Of course you are welcome. You are a part of this family and it is a family event" And as a part of the family coming to a family event, she would be welcome to bring someone with her. Stupid choices does not put anyone out of my family--if it did there would be no family !! And, as anyone in my family can tell you, if I do not approve of something they are doing or have done, I will tell them in no uncertain terms--and then I let it go.

Again, I do not make it my place to place judgment on my sister's life.

I'm assuming lots of things! But I am TELLING YOU...beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I would not invite my sister to bring her new "love of my life" to Christmas dinner under the circumstances the OP describes.

What the OP should do is whatever is right for her and her family.

Ok. Fair enough. What would be right for my family is to still be family to my sister and let her make her own mistakes.



Someone said that the OP's nephew may never accept his mother's new life. That would be very unhealthy for this child. Your mother is always your mother. This is the person who has raised him up to this point. The mother that has loved him his whole life and will continue to love him. In order for him to have peace, he will need to come to terms with her choice and accept her for it.

 

[hambirg]

I am SO glad that my dad's family didn't feel the way you do. They weren't perfect, but the family that was geographically closest to us really supported me and my brother, acted as a safe haven for us when my mom needed help and my dad was being a jerk, and even allowed my mom to go to dinner etc with them. They still loved my dad, but my dad was absolutely a guilty party, and I'm so glad that they were able to open their lives to my mom and to me and my brother, instead of just saying "oh well the marriage is over, Judy's dead to us now".

Had to interrupt my reading to reply to that, it messed with my head SO bad!

After 21 years of being part of a family, the not-quite-ex-husband is absolutely PART of the family! A girlfriend of a month or so isn't. Might become family, so you don't want to be horrid to her, but it doesn't mean you just turn your back on the man that's been a part of the family for so long.

I'm sooo glad you posted this!!!!

I was with my ex for 21yrs. We have 3 children together. I would never cut his parents out of their lives just because me and their Dad separated. I call his parents Mom and Dad. . and I still do! They are and will always be family to me. His mom was so afraid that I would cut ties with them when me and her son separated. Absolutely not! She is my Mom regardless!!!

He has a new gf and his parents often side with me over him and his new relationship. They know me! He has made some BAD choices and they don't have any qualms about telling him that. It doesn't mean they don't love him. But when you are supporting your new gf because she gambled her entire paycheck at the casino. . .because you were "mean" and she is 50 and knows better, while you are only paying $25 a month towards your 3 kids support. . .well shame on you!!! And I don't think it is out of line for family to take the side that is right and just.

 

[hambirg]

I don't necessarily think that anything the woman is doing is right. She probably could have chosen to do most of it in a better way. I am simply saying that she is the OP's sister. She will always be the OP's sister. If my sister had to ask me this question my answer would be "Of course you are welcome. You are a part of this family and it is a family event" And as a part of the family coming to a family event, she would be welcome to bring someone with her. Stupid choices does not put anyone out of my family--if it did there would be no family !! And, as anyone in my family can tell you, if I do not approve of something they are doing or have done, I will tell them in no uncertain terms--and then I let it go.

Again, I do not make it my place to place judgment on my sister's life.

Ok. Fair enough. What would be right for my family is to still be family to my sister and let her make her own mistakes.

Someone said that the OP's nephew may never accept his mother's new life. That would be very unhealthy for this child. Your mother is always your mother. This is the person who has raised him up to this point. The mother that has loved him his whole life and will continue to love him. In order for him to have peace, he will need to come to terms with her choice and accept her for it.

Fair enough. .. you do not condone the behavior but you would accept her and her glaringly bright symbol of her bad choices. I would not. I would of course always welcome her. . .as my sister. But I don't feel any obligation what so ever to this new love interest. This home wrecker is free to go hang out with her own family.

ETA-At what point would you feel free to pass judgement? I'm really not trying to be snarky. . just curious. If your brother molested his step daughter. . .is that still ok because he's your brother? If your sister pimped her daughter because she needed the money? If she had sex with 50 guys in one night because she is a sex addict? Where is the line drawn? I personally don't have any problem drawing the line with infidelity.

 

[luvmy3]

Acklander,

But she IS threatening to separating her son from from his father and his family over Christmas, when most all will be there, sharing family togetherness..., when she could very well spend time with her new 'lover' over the holidays and not say - "If I ain't gettin' it my way, I'm gonna take my ball/child and leave"
She is doing this at a time when I think most everybody here would agree that this would not be in her son's best interests.

This is different than, we have decided to take a holiday cruise this year... etc...
This is a very selfish, calculated, manipulative threat...

If we have to disagree, then that is fine...
But, yes, the sister is, very purposefully, threatening to separate her son (and herself) from the family. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. NO QUESTION.

How do you know she is threatening to take the son away from his father, did anyone else but me consider the fact that the OP's sis and her ex-dh have an arrangement as far as Christmas goes? We (or even the OP) has no idea whats going on with the son because she hasn't even talked to him yet, youa re jumping to conclusions without knowing anything. The OP's sis is planning on spending Christmas with her GF, someone she loves or at the very least cares for deeply, and there is nothing wrong with that. We have no idea if her ds was going to be with her at all on the holiday, the OP assumes he was, but she hasn't even spoken to him so she can know for sure.

 

[MichelleVW]

Again, I do not make it my place to place judgment on my sister's life.

Seriously, I am not the morality police for my family, and unless it was a dangerous situation, Sister and a guest would be more than welcome at my house.

 

[hambirg]

How do you know she is threatening to take the son away from his father, did anyone else but me consider the fact that the OP's sis and her ex-dh have an arrangement as far as Christmas goes? We (or even the OP) has no idea whats going on with the son because she hasn't even talked to him yet, youa re jumping to conclusions without knowing anything. The OP's sis is planning on spending Christmas with her GF, someone she loves or at the very least cares for deeply, and there is nothing wrong with that. We have no idea if her ds was going to be with her at all on the holiday, the OP assumes he was, but she hasn't even spoken to him so she can know for sure.

And she. . . as an adult is perfectly free to do that. . .BUT it does not mean that the OP or the extended family, in any way shape or form, has to include them in the traditional family gathering. Apparently, they are acting as adults, and understand that they are free to do what ever the h*ll they want. It does NOT mean that the family has to accept the poor choices that have been made. They can take their ultimatums and shove them up their proverbial a**es.

 

[luvmy3]

And she. . . as an adult is perfectly free to do that. . .BUT it does not mean that the OP or the extended family, in any way shape or form, has to include them in the traditional family gathering. Apparently, they are acting as adults, and understand that they are free to do what ever the h*ll they want. It does NOT mean that the family has to accept the poor choices that have been made. They can take their ultimatums and shove them up their proverbial a**es.

I never said that they did, the post you quoted was about what some are saying about the son and him being taken away from his father. If you care to know what I said about the coming to dinner you can go back in the beginning of the thread where I addressed it

 

[hambirg]

Seriously, I am not the morality police for my family, and unless it was a dangerous situation, Sister and a guest would be more than welcome at my house.

But at what point do you become that? Like I said. . I DO draw the line at infidelity. . .where is your line? Molestation? Embezzlement? Armed robbery? Everybody has a line. . .mine with this topic would be drawn. "I love you. You are my sister. You are an adult and free to make your own decisions. BUT I do not approve of what you have done. You are always welcome, but I am not condoning you behavior by turning a blind eye and welcoming your new partner in crime."

 

[MichelleVW]

But at what point do you become that? Like I said. . I DO draw the line at infidelity. . .where is your line? Molestation? Embezzlement? Armed robbery? Everybody has a line. . .mine with this topic would be drawn. "I love you. You are my sister. You are an adult and free to make your own decisions. BUT I do not approve of what you have done. You are always welcome, but I am not condoning you behavior by turning a blind eye and welcoming your new partner in crime."

Infidelity is not in the same category as the others you mentioned. Sure cheating sucks, but it's usually a sign that something was wrong in the first place. So while I may not be thrilled with the choice, I'm not going to hold it against someone.

 

[hambirg]

This is how I would handle it. Sister is a grown woman, it is not my place to admonish her for her behavior, what went on between her dh adn her during their marriage is between them, it is not between me, our parents, or any other siblings. She would always be welcome at my home with her new partner whether it be a man or a woman. However, in this case I would ask that before she bring her girlfriend that she formally introduces her to the other members of the family, I would not want that to happen at my house especially during the Holidays, in case there are members of the family who may have a problem with any aspect of the new (or not new) relationship. If after everyone met the girlfriend and sis was still comfortable bringing her I wouldn't have an issue, but its her responsibility to make sure everyone else is comfortable, not mine just because its my house.

ETA I don't consider what your sister is doing now as cheating. She does not live with her dh, the marriage is over whether or not she is holding a legal document stating it is. If she was still "married" and living with the dh that would be one thing, but she isn't cheating and its not my business whether she was before the marriage ended, its between her and her soon to be legal ex.

I'm guessing this is the post you are referring to. You are still ok with not passing judgement because they are adults and she is your sister. She is NOT cheating because that is between her and her ex. I beg to differ. And I'm willing to bet my house that that is NOT how her ex feels. I still would not feel comfortable with this in MY home. I really don't care how the rest of the family sees it. Poor lil sis was really a lesbian all along. Too bad for her that she didn't have the guts to come clean to her spouse and her child. Blech. . .I'm sorry. . .I really don't have any sympathy for the sister in this case. She never had the fortitude to come clean to the people that have loved her for years. . .and is now leaving them in her wake while she is high on her own hormones.

 

[hambirg]

Infidelity is not in the same category as the others you mentioned. Sure cheating sucks, but it's usually a sign that something was wrong in the first place. So while I may not be thrilled with the choice, I'm not going to hold it against someone.

Well, then you and I differ on that point. I think that infidelity leaves just as many victims as some of the things I mentioned. If it is truly about how many people have been hurt by the crime, I'm willing to bet that there are more victims involved in infidelity than embezzlement.

 

[luvmy3]

I'm guessing this is the post you are referring to. You are still ok with not passing judgement because they are adults and she is your sister. She is NOT cheating because that is between her and her ex. I beg to differ. And I'm willing to bet my house that that is NOT how her ex feels. I still would not feel comfortable with this in MY home. I really don't care how the rest of the family sees it. Poor lil sis was really a lesbian all along. Too bad for her that she didn't have the guts to come clean to her spouse and her child. Blech. . .I'm sorry. . .I really don't have any sympathy for the sister in this case. She never had the fortitude to come clean to the people that have loved her for years. . .and is now leaving them in her wake while she is high on her own hormones.

Judging by this response I don't think you would have to worry about being put in the OP's situation anyway

I stand by what I said, the marriage is over she isn't cheating NOW (because the marriage is over). Do I know if she was cheating before- no, neither do you and neither does the OP. She could have she could have also jumped very quickly into this relationship. Even so, what happened in her marriage is between her and her dh, she didn't make a vow to me, I'm not going to punish her for her actions in her marriage, or punish her because she wasn't comfortable "coming out" years ago. Obviously you would, and thats fine for you, but I wouldn't do that to my sister.

 

[MichelleVW]

Well, then you and I differ on that point. I think that infidelity leaves just as many victims as some of the things I mentioned. If it is truly about how many people have been hurt by the crime, I'm willing to bet that there are more victims involved in infidelity than embezzlement.

I would much rather my sister cheat on her husband than rob a bank. Not even close to the same thing. So yes, we totally differ.

 

[OceanAnnie]

OP, it sounds like you are going to be darned if you do, or darned if you don't.

I imagine given the circumstances of everything that has transpired, it would be a rather awkward gathering for all concerned. One of those, elephant in the room kind of events.