please ignore

[fkj2]

I am very proud of the great job I did in caring for him and insulted that somebody would imply that home care is always the best care and then implies that her opinions are of biblical origin--oh, please!

As to your comment of biblical origin--scoff all you want. I understand. I really do. If I believe God laid this responsibility on my heart, it's not your place to insinuate that I'm insincere!

 

[dvcgirl]

Sorry to hijack this, but I am MORE then a little insulted here! You are basically stating that since my family was NOT able to keep my Grandfather at home that we didn't do the right thing!!!! HOW DARE YOU????? You have no idea what the situation was with my Grandmother's health or the rest of my family for that matter. You just assume that "your way is the right way"


I am very pleased that you are happy with your decision, but you don't know our situation and for you to STATE this is just wrong and about as rude as it can be! It would be wrong of me to assume that the care you give your family member is inadequate but you were ready and willing to assume that about MY family! I AM SO INSULTED THAT I COULD SCREAM! (Not to mention that hundreds of Senior citizens are abused and neglected by FAMILY member every day... whom you assume would be perferred caregivers)

The decison that was made was the best for EVERYONE and you as a "medical professional" should have learned long ago that one size does NOT fit all!

Carol, I don't know the previous what the previous poster's nursing background is, but one of the few careers I've had in my life was working as a critical care registered nurse. I'm doing something totally unrelated to that now, but worked as a nurse for many years. I can tell you that there are many misconceptions out there. For one, not all nursing homes are awful. There are quite a few good ones. And when family visits often, well all the better. Staff members respond favorably to family members who are there on a regular basis. Rest easy in your decision. I would never pass judgement on anyone who has to make the decision to admit a family member to a nursing home, and neither should anyone else.

 

[fkj2]

I went back and reread my post (that has apparently caused such an uproar).

I acknowledged caring for someone at home wasn't for everyone. So, how the subsequent interpretation from that post came about, I still don't understand. I didn't make any reference to any other poster's specific situation in that thread nor did I intend to. I wasn't judging anyone. But, I don't intend to have my posts misinterpreted and sentiments expressed that weren't intended and are not mine. I'm still looking for the content of that post that implies, "You are basically stating that since my family was NOT able to keep my Grandfather at home that we didn't do the right thing!!!!"

I didn't write anything that even comes close to that.

I repeat: I am doing what I feel is right for ME at this time. I stated it was a "personal" choice. My first words were "I never said caring for someone at home was easy. . . " Frankly, caring for anyone--young or old--with any illness or injury is tough.

The original Hospice post I made on this thread was intended to help those who find themselves in the position of caring for an elder in terminal stages or even young people with late stages of diseases such as MS, to ease the stress associated with the process of death and the financial strain it can bring. That was it.

People like me, who've been down the elder care road for some time now, have learned a lot about Medicare rules and reimbursement, etc. (sometimes the hard way); about when Medicare will pay for equipment and services and when they won't, that could be shared with others who are just now encountering these same issues. But after this flameout, I think I'll restrain myself from trying to "help" going forward.

 

[pat fan]

fkj2
By me saying it wasn't easy I didn't mean to imply it wasn't worth it. It's just, well, not easy! I mean, if you can tell me it didn't bother you to have to change your relatives diapers,suction their mouth so they didn't choke on phlem, roll them to prevent bedsores,change sheets and listen to them gasp and rattle for breath, more power to you. It wasn't easy for me. My FIL is the one who insisted my MIL be at home, and then sat at the table and smoked cigarettes while we cared for her. He did nothing,so it was pretty easy for him. Not for us. And we did give round the clock care, had to. She was pretty much in a coma or whatever you want to call it from the second day of coming home from the hospital.Unresponsive to anything. We just got to care for her body while waiting for her to die. I was with her when she died(on my b-day no less )and that does mean a lot to me.But no, it wasn't easy and if my saying it wasn't offends you, so be it.
fkj2
Just read your reply above me and didn't want to add to your confusion.I'm not flaming you, I just want people to know if they choose in-home for the last days, it aint no picnic. When it's over, it may leave you with a good feeling, but while you're doing it , it is hard.

And now we return you to the original theme of this thread, which is debt, not death

 

[dvcgirl]

I grew up in a small town in Central New Jersey. The "keeping up with the Jones' " mentality is "NEW MONEY." Spending everything and more to "look" successfull. "OLD MONEY" doesn't spend. These are the people who drive the older cars, eat at home instead of eating out, don't buy things on a whim. Too many people are shallow enough to think that they must "look" wealthy to be wealthy. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are now living in Southern California and cannot get over the spending habits that people have. We just purchased a home here and are amazed at the crazy real estate prices. We bought what is considered to be a "starter" or intro level home. A modest, 4 bedroom/2 bath 40 year old home for the "bargain" price of $635,000. We waited 2 1/2 years for the market to settle down some and were quickly getting priced out of the market. Both of our cars are 3 years old and are paid off. We don't eat out and we carefully plan purchases. Our community here is full of european autos, pleasure boats, motor homes and all of the excess "toys" that people perceive to represent wealth. The oddity of this is that a majority of these homes are owned by people living way beyond their base incomes. We are amazed at how many of these people are constantly refinancing and spending the equity in their homes, as if the prices will never level off. The simple theory that spending less money than you net is completely overlooked by most of today's households.

I agree with this....it is a new money vs. old money thing. And I admit that my DH and I even went through a little of this back when we first started to make some real money. Big house, fancy car...all of that. There's a learning curve that goes with it. We didn't hit the lottery or anything, but we had a very big stock option sale that moved us quickly up the financial ladder. But after a few years we knew it just wasn't us...it didn't fit who we were. So we really downsized everything in our lives and it's just much simpler....and we take pride in knowing we could buy nice things and don't....because we just don't need them.

And we're easily on track to retire in 20 years at 55, but knowing us, we probably won't because we both really like what we do. I find that there's a lot of people out there who are wishing for money just to buy expensive things and so they wouldn't have to work anymore. The lottery dream so to speak. Sometimes I think if people like that applied that same energy level to finding something that they really enjoyed, that success will follow....not only monetary success, but the joy that comes when you truly enjoy what you do.

And speaking of funny things you see these days. I was out early this morning and saw my "paperboy" who is an adult, delivering the papers...from his brand new Lexus LX....a $60,000+ SUV. Now, sure it's probably leased but you have to ask yourself...if this guy is out at 5 am delivering newspapers for money...should a 60K car be a part of his life...lol!

 

[Debbie Jean]

And speaking of funny things you see these days. I was out early this morning and saw my "paperboy" who is an adult, delivering the papers...from his brand new Lexus LX....a $60,000+ SUV. Now, sure it's probably leased but you have to ask yourself...if this guy is out at 5 am delivering newspapers for money...should a 60K car be a part of his life...lol!

Unbelievable!!! Just when you think you've seen everything!!!

 

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

ISnipped. . . We didn't hit the lottery or anything, but we had a very big stock option sale that moved us quickly up the financial ladder.

Beings we're talking about finances on this thread. Would you mind explaining to this, new and slowly learning about finances, diser what a stock option sale is? Right now DH and I are just worried about getting the debt gone. That will be this year. Our next step then will be to start learning about investing and stocks. Right now I do not know the first thing about stocks but it's never to early to learn. Your post picked my curiosity.

TIA

 

[fkj2]

I mean, if you can tell me it didn't bother you to have to change your relatives diapers,suction their mouth so they didn't choke on phlem, roll them to prevent bedsores,change sheets and listen to them gasp and rattle for breath, more power to you.

I never said "it didn't bother me...." It bothers me--all the time. I don't know what I write that makes some read something else other than what I intended into it.

And here's what really bothers me:I'm slowly, agonizingly losing the best friend I've had in this lifetime.

Every time I can't take my mom with me shopping, (when I go) it bothers me. That we can't go out for lunch anymore. That she no longer can call me by my name. When every holiday or BD comes around and I hold my breath for the same reason you did. When I hate the dementia that's stealing her away. That she's made her last trip to WDW. My Disney buddy. That I have to settle for being satisfied that the worst day (and there's been a few hummers) in my house is better, at least in my mind, for her than the best day anywhere else.

It bothers me when I realize I'm helpless to stop this. It bothers me when I try making it through one more day. When I wonder how much longer can this go one and will I have to tap retirement funds soon.

And about some of the sentiments expressed in many of the posts related to end-of-life care, I think for some, self included, it's the pain of the loss: How can those people we loved be leaving us?

 

[CarolA]

Beings we're talking about finances on this thread. Would you mind explaining to this, new and slowly learning about finances, diser what a stock option sale is? Right now DH and I are just worried about getting the debt gone. That will be this year. Our next step then will be to start learning about investing and stocks. Right now I do not know the first thing about stocks but it's never to early to learn. Your post picked my curiosity.

TIA

Stock options are awarded to emloyees by thier employer as part of thier compenstation package (and normally as a way to tie them to the company) It is an option to buy stock at a discounted price.

In my case, the options vested over a three year period (I think it's been a while) So if I stayed with the company one year, I got X options, two years XX options etc.

They can be given at a discount or at the price on the day they are awarded. WHat you are hoping is that the stock price rises. Then you excersise your options. For example, if your options are 100 shares at $5 and the stock is selling at $10 you would excerise your options. You would pay your company $500 for the stock (100 shares at $5) and get to keep the difference between the $5 cost and th4 $10 sale price.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

Stock options are awarded to emloyees by thier employer as part of thier compenstation package (and normally as a way to tie them to the company) It is an option to buy stock at a discounted price.

In my case, the options vested over a three year period (I think it's been a while) So if I stayed with the company one year, I got X options, two years XX options etc.

They can be given at a discount or at the price on the day they are awarded. WHat you are hoping is that the stock price rises. Then you excersise your options. For example, if your options are 100 shares at $5 and the stock is selling at $10 you would excerise your options. You would pay your company $500 for the stock (100 shares at $5) and get to keep the difference between the $5 cost and th4 $10 sale price.

Hope that makes sense.

That makes alot of sense. Thank you, you explained it very well. So, stock options are through a company you work for as opposed to just buying stock outright through someone who sells stock, like a stock broker?

Thanks again.

 

[westjones]

I agree with this....it is a new money vs. old money thing. And I admit that my DH and I even went through a little of this back when we first started to make some real money. Big house, fancy car...all of that. There's a learning curve that goes with it.

DH and I almost fell into this trap in the 1980s also! Just as we started 'making' some money we want to spend it and spend it. If only I could relive teh 80s, I would do SO many thing different. The ONLY thing that kept us from falling into the culture of more More MORE was the fact that DH wanted a PhD, so that became our focus.

Now that we are in our 40s with kids, we think differently. I always say I wish I could have the mind I have now with the body I had in my 20s !

Now my biggest spending problem is DISNEY! But I am trying to get a handle on that. DH and I have made a promise to only go once a year at the most!

DJ

 

[CarolA]

That makes alot of sense. Thank you, you explained it very well. So, stock options are through a company you work for as opposed to just buying stock outright through someone who sells stock, like a stock broker?

Thanks again.

Yes, they are given to employees. I no longer work for a publicly held company, but new rules on finanical accounting for stock options have reduced thier use.

 

[crisi]

And they were pretty rare before that. Some dot coms funded employee salaries through options - we won't pay you much, but when we go public you'll own all these options. But for many companies, you need to be management to have gotten anything significant in terms of options.

The other thing employers do is offer an Employee Stock Purchase Plan. Usually you put in some portion of your salary and then are able to buy stock at a discount at the lower price of the beginning or ending of the offer period. So if the stock is $10 at the beginning of the offer period and the discount is 15%, you'll by it for at most $8.50. If its selling for $16 when you get it, you are a happy camper. If its dropped to $5, you buy it for $4.25. In this case you need to have enough cash flow to cover the offer period, as you are tying up cash to get a lump sum six months later.

If you want to start investing, the best thing you can do is to put money into a no load index fund. You don't need to know much more than "the market goes up, the market goes down." Its a safe as the stock market gets (which isn't very safe). Safer is to put money into bonds. Less risk, more reward. Most financial advisors would say to put your money in a mix of stocks and bonds depending on your risk tolerance.

 

[dvcgirl]

Beings we're talking about finances on this thread. Would you mind explaining to this, new and slowly learning about finances, diser what a stock option sale is? Right now DH and I are just worried about getting the debt gone. That will be this year. Our next step then will be to start learning about investing and stocks. Right now I do not know the first thing about stocks but it's never to early to learn. Your post picked my curiosity.

TIA

Getting rid of your debt is the first step...good for you! Thinking ahead to investing says you're already ahead of the game....that's the way you need to be thinking. As for stock options, they are generally granted to an employee as a bonus. So, for example, say you just landed a great job with Ebay. In addition to your salary, perhaps as a sign-on bonus they grant you 10,000 shares of Ebay stock at it's current price of $33. Great right? Darn right, but there's usually a little catch. Ebay wants you to hang around for awhile, so the stock doesn't fully "vest" until after four years, generally with it taking a full year to you to vest 25% of that stock...and then usually in monthly increments after that. So, after the first year, 2,500 shares are vested, meaning you can sell them, or exercise your options at that point if you choose. Say Ebay has gone up to $43 in that period of time, and you'd like to sell your 2,500 shares....you can sell and will net $25,000....but of course then you'd have to pay taxes on that.

This is why stock options are called "the golden handcuffs", because in most cases, once you leave the company, you leave the stock options behind.

So back in the early 90s, my husband was hired as software engineer for a small software company in NJ. He was awarded 5,000 stock options...and he just forgot about them. The stock was at 6 dollars at the time. Years go by, he's given more and more stock options each year, for raises, for promotions, for hitting a production deadline. They just seemed to be giving them out like candy, and he never touched his shares. Time marched forward, he continued to move up in the little company until it was purchased by a bigger company which then merged with an even bigger company. By 1997 he was director of engineering and we had thousands and thousands of shares of stock because the stock had "split" 6 times by that point. A stock split is when a company simply distributes more stock to holders of an existing stock, but lowers the price. A "2 for 1" split would mean that your exisiting shares would double, and the price would be cut in half. In theory a stock split is a non-event, but in the mid to late 90s in signaled that a company was robust and expected their stock price to rise.

When Yahoo hit 400, my husband and I had a discussion that the market seemed poised for a drop. It just didn't make any sense...a company that was losing money with a stock price so high. We cashed in everything we could at that point. It was the single best financial decision that we ever made. There was indeed some more of a run-up from even that point...but it wasn't long before it all came crashing down.

Mind you, my husband was making a great salary by that point anyway, even without the stock sale, we would have been doing just fine by most standards, however, that stock sale put us in a different bracket altogether. It changed our lives for a short time too. With only a small amount of experience with money and both of us coming from blue collar middle class upbringings, we did what we thought you do when you are suddenly wealthy. We built a massive house, bought fancy cars, hired people to do things for us. Prior to that we lived in an apartment because we were in California and didn't want to live there permanently.

After a few years we finally realized that the big house and all that went with it wasn't "us". We felt like we were throwing money away left and right. Two people really don't need a 4,000 + sq ft house. The lifestyle in that neighborhood didn't fit with how we were raised as children. We saw massive amounts of money just wasted. I mean, in our time in that neighborhood we attended parties that we still talk about to this day. Christening parties were more elaborate than weddings. Birthday parties for children were generally fully catered events with tents, clowns, face painters, ponies.....it was just unbelievable.

Now we live in a smaller house in Florida...we cut our lawn, clean our house and maintain our property. We continue to save and invest and we live well below our means. Our retirement is secure and I can't even describe the peace of mind that comes along with that. My husband is now doing his own thing in the same industry, I'm a small business owner and everything just feels right.

For the Love of Disney, my advice to you is to read-read-read....now while you're getting yourselves out of debt. I really like the David Bach books....the millionaire books. Smart couples finish rich is good, if you're in your 30s consider Start Late, Finish Rich. They're well written and in laymans terms with lots of good examples. You will think differently about money when you finish that series and you'll probably never buy a Latte from Starbucks for the rest of your life. Keep paying down your debt and keep the great attitude and you'll get there!!

 

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

Getting rid of your debt is the first step...good for you! Thinking ahead to investing says you're already ahead of the game....that's the way you need to be thinking. As for stock options, they are generally granted to an employee as a bonus. So, for example, say you just landed a great job with Ebay. In addition to your salary, perhaps as a sign-on bonus they grant you 10,000 shares of Ebay stock at it's current price of $33. Great right? Darn right, but there's usually a little catch. Ebay wants you to hang around for awhile, so the stock doesn't fully "vest" until after four years, generally with it taking a full year to you to vest 25% of that stock...and then usually in monthly increments after that. So, after the first year, 2,500 shares are vested, meaning you can sell them, or exercise your options at that point if you choose. Say Ebay has gone up to $43 in that period of time, and you'd like to sell your 2,500 shares....you can sell and will net $25,000....but of course then you'd have to pay taxes on that.

This is why stock options are called "the golden handcuffs", because in most cases, once you leave the company, you leave the stock options behind.

So back in the early 90s, my husband was hired as software engineer for a small software company in NJ. He was awarded 5,000 stock options...and he just forgot about them. The stock was at 6 dollars at the time. Years go by, he's given more and more stock options each year, for raises, for promotions, for hitting a production deadline. They just seemed to be giving them out like candy, and he never touched his shares. Time marched forward, he continued to move up in the little company until it was purchased by a bigger company which then merged with an even bigger company. By 1997 he was director of engineering and we had thousands and thousands of shares of stock because the stock had "split" 6 times by that point. A stock split is when a company simply distributes more stock to holders of an existing stock, but lowers the price. A "2 for 1" split would mean that your exisiting shares would double, and the price would be cut in half. In theory a stock split is a non-event, but in the mid to late 90s in signaled that a company was robust and expected their stock price to rise.

When Yahoo hit 400, my husband and I had a discussion that the market seemed poised for a drop. It just didn't make any sense...a company that was losing money with a stock price so high. We cashed in everything we could at that point. It was the single best financial decision that we ever made. There was indeed some more of a run-up from even that point...but it wasn't long before it all came crashing down.

Mind you, my husband was making a great salary by that point anyway, even without the stock sale, we would have been doing just fine by most standards, however, that stock sale put us in a different bracket altogether. It changed our lives for a short time too. With only a small amount of experience with money and both of us coming from blue collar middle class upbringings, we did what we thought you do when you are suddenly wealthy. We built a massive house, bought fancy cars, hired people to do things for us. Prior to that we lived in an apartment because we were in California and didn't want to live there permanently.

After a few years we finally realized that the big house and all that went with it wasn't "us". We felt like we were throwing money away left and right. Two people really don't need a 4,000 + sq ft house. The lifestyle in that neighborhood didn't fit with how we were raised as children. We saw massive amounts of money just wasted. I mean, in our time in that neighborhood we attended parties that we still talk about to this day. Christening parties were more elaborate than weddings. Birthday parties for children were generally fully catered events with tents, clowns, face painters, ponies.....it was just unbelievable.

Now we live in a smaller house in Florida...we cut our lawn, clean our house and maintain our property. We continue to save and invest and we live well below our means. Our retirement is secure and I can't even describe the peace of mind that comes along with that. My husband is now doing his own thing in the same industry, I'm a small business owner and everything just feels right.

For the Love of Disney, my advice to you is to read-read-read....now while you're getting yourselves out of debt. I really like the David Bach books....the millionaire books. Smart couples finish rich is good, if you're in your 30s consider Start Late, Finish Rich. They're well written and in laymans terms with lots of good examples. You will think differently about money when you finish that series and you'll probably never buy a Latte from Starbucks for the rest of your life. Keep paying down your debt and keep the great attitude and you'll get there!!

Thank you, dvcgirl, for taking the time to explain. It makes perfect sense.

DH just turned 27 on Monday and I'm 30 . We have no kidlets. Our motto is work hard now so we can "relax" later. Oh, I'm sure we'll be doing something but maybe not with this type of intensity.

We were in a bind with our debt, as I mentioned in an earlier post, we just thought debt was a way of life even though it didn't feel right to us. We hated taking our hard earned money and in essence giving it to someone else for something we bought that we don't even remember what that something was! But now, the end is in sight! We'll be debt free except for the mortgage and then that's the next to go! Last year we refinanced from a 30 year mortgage (becuase a 30 year mortgage is what we were advised to do and we didn't know any better) down to a 15 year. Our payment only increased by $68 but it took 15 years away from us! We estimate to have that gone within 5 to 7 years. Then all of our money will truly be ours except of course for food and utilities and the basics.

I love to read! I especially love the "self-help" books so I will, with great enthusiasm, check out the books you've recommended. I'm always open to ways to better myself and our situation so thank you for taking the time to mention them. And thank you for taking the time to share your story throughout this thread. It is an inspiration to me to know debt-free living can be done.

Thank you again.

 

[luvthatdisney]

Hi guys,

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. DH and I are both in our late 30's. We have a 15 yo ds and 11 yo dd. We do not make lots of money - never have and I only work part-time. We have done the extravagant things in the past like having a house built, having a 4 car garage, having the 4 cars to go in the garage, etc...This was mainly done after I inherited about $80k from my grandmother about 11 years ago. Well, the money was gone very quickly!! It really is like water!! We both worked full-time - my DH has always worked in some kind of manufacturing and I work for one of the largest insurance companies in the country. Anyway, stress took its toll on me and about 2 years ago we (or should I say "I") decided that we needed to downsize and me go part-time. This is what we did - we sold the house - bought a smaller one with half the payment we were making (20 year mortgage - we do acclerate - make 13 payments a year). Traded in newer leased cars and purchased older cars. I must say I am almost completely stress free, have time for my kids and serve on several PTO, parent advisory boards at my kids schools.

DH makes more now than he ever has but has a very high stress/physically demanding job. He feels like he never has any money as all of our money goes in our one joint checking/savings account. I have been reading these debt related threads and came across one about having multiple checking accounts. One for bills (mortgage, ins, credit cards, etc), one for DH to have his own spending money, another for me for groceries and ancillary expenses for the kids, etc. Has anyone tried this. I have figured out how to do it - at least what we would need to pay and when, but I am still a little scared - something new I guess!! What do you guys think about doing this. DH would deposit certain amount each week in the bills account and keep the rest for himself (about $75-80 a week) and then my check would be direct deposited into my account for the remaining household needs and a little spending money for me. I would also deposit money into an online savings account - harder to touch!!

Does anyone do this with success. I think my Dh feels that I just want him for a paycheck sometimes and I think if he could purchase things without consulting me each time to see how much we have in the bank he would start to feel a little better!!

 

[peacefulgirl]

please ignore

 

[crisi]

DH makes more now than he ever has but has a very high stress/physically demanding job. He feels like he never has any money as all of our money goes in our one joint checking/savings account. I have been reading these debt related threads and came across one about having multiple checking accounts. One for bills (mortgage, ins, credit cards, etc), one for DH to have his own spending money, another for me for groceries and ancillary expenses for the kids, etc. Has anyone tried this. I have figured out how to do it - at least what we would need to pay and when, but I am still a little scared - something new I guess!! What do you guys think about doing this. DH would deposit certain amount each week in the bills account and keep the rest for himself (about $75-80 a week) and then my check would be direct deposited into my account for the remaining household needs and a little spending money for me. I would also deposit money into an online savings account - harder to touch!!

For several years we had three checking accounts - mine, his and ours. Money went into "our" account and we were both paid an allowance to do what we wanted with. It was a good system and I liked it. We stopped doing it for a few reasons about the time we had kids, bought a new house, etc. The "our" account covered bills, but also splurges - like both of us going out to dinner together. His account covered him going out on his own.

 

[C.Ann]

DH makes more now than he ever has but has a very high stress/physically demanding job. He feels like he never has any money as all of our money goes in our one joint checking/savings account. I have been reading these debt related threads and came across one about having multiple checking accounts. One for bills (mortgage, ins, credit cards, etc), one for DH to have his own spending money, another for me for groceries and ancillary expenses for the kids, etc. Has anyone tried this. I have figured out how to do it - at least what we would need to pay and when, but I am still a little scared - something new I guess!! What do you guys think about doing this. DH would deposit certain amount each week in the bills account and keep the rest for himself (about $75-80 a week) and then my check would be direct deposited into my account for the remaining household needs and a little spending money for me. I would also deposit money into an online savings account - harder to touch!!

Does anyone do this with success. I think my Dh feels that I just want him for a paycheck sometimes and I think if he could purchase things without consulting me each time to see how much we have in the bank he would start to feel a little better!!

---------------------------------

My DD's in-laws have been doing this for well over 35 years and it has worked out extremely well for them.. Also, when each of them received inheritances, it went in their individual accounts - although they have combined funds from the two of them for things like a motorhome and such..

 

[peacefulgirl]

please ignore