Please Help: My Dog Killed My Other Dog Today-Updated Post #166

[momrek06]

Christine: ..so sorry for your loss of LOLA and what you and your family is going through must be just so difficult.

We are here for you.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Thank you again everyone for your kind thoughts and advice. I just woke up this morning and got right on the computer. I had a very sleepless night, as you can imagine, and my son (who is 12) wanted to sleep with me all night. So hubby was kicked out the bed.

I am a bit worried for my son and I hope he turns around today. He did not eat anything ALL day. I didn't want to eat myself but have some health issues that required me to stuff something in my mouth. I hope he is better today. He keeps begging me to get another dog--a bigger dog--one that Paisley can't hurt. I asked him why he wants to replace Lola so soon and he said that he didn't but he just couldn't bear not seeing her or hearing her footsteps on the floor. I explained to him that, as long as we have Paisley, we cannot EVER have another animal.

In response to some of the questions that popped up last night:

I spent some time out in the yard last night, just staring at the fence. I still cannot figure it out. The chicken wire is pulled down and it appears that Lola could have stuck her neck through one of the slats of the fence. Where her neck may have stretched through the fence, there is some blood on the fence but on the outer side of the board, and then some below on the ground (there was a gutter runoff thing that had blood on it). I would be really surprised, given her wound, that there was no blood on the inside of the fence. To me it looks as if she was trying to stick her neck through and get out. The amount of blood is very small and is not consistent at all with the wound that I saw on her neck. Her body was found approximately 20 yards from that fence, back into the middle of the yard, so she was not near the fence site at that point that she was down. There is also no trail of blood from the fence to the area she was laying in. There was no blood anywhere else on the ground, but where she was laying.

Paisley had blood right below her neck and on her chest. That area of her fur is white so it is easy to see. I assumed, at first, that it was because she was violently fighting with Lola. It wasn't until my husband came home and washed her down that we saw the big wound on her chest. In my shock, I cannot remember if there was any blood on her muzzle. I'm sure there was none on her legs or feet.

As far as the aggression issues--okay, Lola was a JRT. She could be extremely aggressive outdoors or with her toys. She loved her little toys and would grab them, growl, and shake them to death. She also loved to run out and chase squirrels. We have a few drainage pipes in the yard and every day she would run out and "check" them, bite them, and growl into them.

When her and Paisley would be let outside together after they had been indoors a lot, both of them would go running for squirrels. Lola was always nipping at Paisley's legs on the way. Paisley never acted like she cared. Lola used to try to play with Paisley in the house. Paisley isn't one of the playful dogs and she would ignore her. Finally, Lola just stopped trying and it was rare that they would play around. It was funny because just last week, Paisley actually was trying to get Lola to play. Paisley's expressions are very easily read and I could tell by her body language that she was happy and having fun. She kept swatting at Lola but Lola wouldn't play.

As for the food aggression--I guess Lola had a bit of it though I never, ever saw her even try to make a move on Paisley. Lola was the type of dog that if you gave her a treat and you looked like you might take it, she would growl at you. Paisley would not. As I said earlier, I fed them in separate rooms and I would stay down there with them. I would fill up Lola's bowl. She would wait until I filled up Paisley's bowl. When Paisley started eating, then Lola would start eating. Often times, Paisley didn't finish her food (Lola always did). Paisley would leave her feeding area and go lay on her mat that was in another area of the basement. When Lola would try to come out of her feeding room, Paisley would growl at her because Lola was "passing" by her dish. I suspect this is what happened that time I was out of town and my dad got caught up in the mess. Lola had no qualms about going for Paisley's food if she was not finished with it. So, if Paisley didn't eat, I always picked up her dish and put it out of sight.

I say Lola was submissive because if you even gave a hint of trying to discipline her, she immediately fell on her back and exposed her stomach. Even if you said "Lola, what did you do" and gave her a look. She always took a "backseat" to Paisley so to speak and constantly deffered to her on what path to take in the yard.

I really don't know what to make of that behavior. Does it sound as if they were both aggressive?

At this point, I am still about 95% sure that this was a dog-on-dog attack. I know my husband is very hopeful it was something else. I guess I won't ever know what happened in that 30 minutes. I wish so hard that I would not have cleaned yesterday and just went out to run errands. Lola would be here with me know.

And for what it's worth--Lola was about 10 lbs, had very little hair on her, and this weird thin skin, especially on the neck area. Paisley is close to 50 lbs, is VERY strong and it wouldn't have taken much to inflict this type of wound on Lola. To me, her wound was a clear puncture. The top and bottom punctures were aligned in such a way that I think the top and bottom canine teeth did it. I think she took one bite on the neck that easily went through the skin and that was it.

I'm still wrestling with what to do. The vet tech had told me about one family who had a dog they wanted to put down, I believe for excessive barking. I believe that she said my vet referred them out to some program and it worked and they were able to keep the dog.

I'm not sure if my vet will look a Lola's body tomorrow or not. She is up there at his office, in the freezer . We have the option to go get her and bury her in the yard or do the cremation. I am a bit concerned about putting her in the yard as I don't know what Paisley will do and I don't think my husband is up for doing the burial, but who knows.

I just wish I could stop feeling so awful. I cried yesterday for at least 8 hours, was crying in bed. I had to pull myself together for my son and stop crying in front of him because I think it's making him worse. But already this morning, I can feel the tears again and I'm just feeling physically ill. I know I can't make it stop but I feel so horrible. And I know that I will forever blame myself.

Continued good wishes and PLEASE don't blame yourself!

Re: burial

My beloved puppy Muffin is in my backyard. He is wrapped in his favorite blanket, then a special non biodegradable bag, in a blue satin lined pine coffin and the coffin is in another non biodegradable bag, buried six feet under his favorite tree spot,marked by a gravestone. When this house is sold, he will be moved. When my parents pass away, I will have him moved to my backyard. I don't care if I have to pay someone $5000 to move him respectfully and with care, I will. Later, I will put into my will that he is to be either buried with me, or in another cemetery.

With Paisley there, I think it is key to make sure Lola's place of rest is as undisturbed as possible. If a burial can be done (w those nonbiodegradable bags) that will ensure Paisley can leave her undisturbed (maybe a fenced off location, with other obstacles to ensure Paisley won't disturb it) that might be an idea. Otherwise, I would consider a pet cemetery (I know of a few in NY/NJ) or else cremation. If my mother had it to do over again, she says she would have had him cremated so he could always have a home. My friend's father was cremated and turned into a small black diamond that she wears on a necklace, so I'm sure that could be done with a dog as well.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Just wanted to let you know of all the options I know of.

 

[juligrl]

Christine, I would consult with a trainer who specializes with dogs who have "issues" before making any decision. We did that with one of our dogs. One private session and we made so much progress. Sheena has dog aggression issues, although not at all with our dog (they play roughly, but not aggressively and even the cats can take her food away), but she had problems with other dogs. She still does, but I know how to react and what to do to head anything off at the pass.

Hang in there!

Making a note to self: If I were in the same type of situation I think this is exactly what I would do.

 

[Christine]

Thank you all for your continued support and suggestions.

Most likely we will be bringing Lola home for burial but I still have to talk with the vet. I have two other dogs buried in my yard but there is a concern as to what Paisley will do.

I'm not feeling much better today--just couldn't sleep again. I am really hoping for some closure after speaking with the vet.

 

[munchkin bunchkin]

Just came across your post and am so sorry to hear your situation ... to you and your family!

 

[PixiePop]

I just wanted to let you know how truly sorry I am that this happened.

 

[mrsltg]

Oh Christine - I am so sorry.

 

[Duxy68]

Thats so sad. My wishes are with you.

 

[Sherri]

Just wanted to tell the OP that I am so sorry for her loss. Both of her dogs are beautiful and what happand was so tragic.
I know few words can probably bring comfort to you right now, but I hope in time your heart heals. Of course you won't ever forget, but you can heal.

 

[Sherri]

Thank you all for your continued support and suggestions.

Most likely we will be bringing Lola home for burial but I still have to talk with the vet. I have two other dogs buried in my yard but there is a concern as to what Paisley will do.

I'm not feeling much better today--just couldn't sleep again. I am really hoping for some closure after speaking with the vet.

Christine- I have not read all of the other responses, but I wondered if this had to do with Paisly wanting to be the Alfa dog, and while Lola was in her first year, she may have gone along with this. Maybe Paisly felt like the Alpha dog title was not hers anymore. I would research that.
Also if I read it correct you said that you adopted Paisly from the shelter. Who knows if she was brought there because her other family got another dog and she felt replaced. Maybe in her mind this could have happand again and she was defending her spot at home.
I know my cat that we adopted from a family was given up due them getting a puppy and for that reason our cat is very aggresive towards dogs when they occasionally visit.

 

[KirstenB]

Christine, I'm so sorry for all of you. No advice, just hugs and prayers. I'm truly heartbroken for you, and started crying just reading this, and imagining how hard it must be for you all. I hope a vet or trainer can help guide you in what to do.

 

[Christine]

Christine- I have not read all of the other responses, but I wondered if this had to do with Paisly wanting to be the Alfa dog, and while Lola was in her first year, she may have gone along with this. Maybe Paisly felt like the Alpha dog title was not hers anymore. I would research that.
Also if I read it correct you said that you adopted Paisly from the shelter. Who knows if she was brought there because her other family got another dog and she felt replaced. Maybe in her mind this could have happand again and she was defending her spot at home.
I know my cat that we adopted from a family was given up due them getting a puppy and for that reason our cat is very aggresive towards dogs when they occasionally visit.

Sherri,

Paisley is definitely an Alpha. I always thought Lola submitted to her, but maybe she didn't submit enough.

I can really only speculate as to what must have transpired on Saturday. While Lola didn't spend as much time outside as Paisley did, they went out in the yard several times a day, alone together, for long periods of time. There was never, ever, ever an issue in the yard.

With the suspicious ripped-down chicken wire and blood on the fence, I suspect they were both focusing on something outside of the fence. They probably got themselves into a frenzy (which they have been known to do) and somehow it turned on each other. Maybe Paisley thought that Lola was gaining an advantage (she is much smaller and can get through the fence).

I guess I'll just never know.

As far as Paisley's adoption from the shelter, they seemed to have kept good records on her and why she was brought in. On her first trip to the shelter, she was a 4-5 month old puppy. I don't know why she was turned in on that trip. Then the next family only had her for 2 days and returned her to the shelter because they had a 2 year old and 4 year old and, according to the paper, "the puppy keeps jumping on the children." When I got her, she was only 20 lbs and still very puppy-like. It is hard to believe that in that short time something bad was done to her. Except for the dog-to-dog aggression, the dog has been one of the best behaved dogs I've ever had.

 

[dizneenut]

I am so very sorry.

 

[Sherri]

Sherri,

Paisley is definitely an Alpha. I always thought Lola submitted to her, but maybe she didn't submit enough.

I can really only speculate as to what must have transpired on Saturday. While Lola didn't spend as much time outside as Paisley did, they went out in the yard several times a day, alone together, for long periods of time. There was never, ever, ever an issue in the yard.

With the suspicious ripped-down chicken wire and blood on the fence, I suspect they were both focusing on something outside of the fence. They probably got themselves into a frenzy (which they have been known to do) and somehow it turned on each other. Maybe Paisley thought that Lola was gaining an advantage (she is much smaller and can get through the fence).

I guess I'll just never know.

As far as Paisley's adoption from the shelter, they seemed to have kept good records on her and why she was brought in. On her first trip to the shelter, she was a 4-5 month old puppy. I don't know why she was turned in on that trip. Then the next family only had her for 2 days and returned her to the shelter because they had a 2 year old and 4 year old and, according to the paper, "the puppy keeps jumping on the children." When I got her, she was only 20 lbs and still very puppy-like. It is hard to believe that in that short time something bad was done to her. Except for the dog-to-dog aggression, the dog has been one of the best behaved dogs I've ever had.

Have you decided what you are going to do about her?
I hope whatever you decide that you know you have many friends here on the dis board wishing you the best.
As someone who loves her pets so much, I can only imagine your heartache.

 

[Christine]

Have you decided what you are going to do about her?
I hope whatever you decide that you know you have many friends here on the dis board wishing you the best.
As someone who loves her pets so much, I can only imagine your heartache.

No, I'm still waiting for both the vet and a trainer to return my calls. I know everyone has their lives but when you are grieving like I am, it's really hard not to feel like the center of the universe.

The receptionist at the vet said that he *might* call me before his appointments started at 9:00 a.m., but if not, it would be sometime after 10:30. I asked that he examine my dog's neck wound to see if it is consistent with a dog bite. At that point, I will discuss the other dog.

 

[agnes!]

Sorry about all the heartache. I'm pretty sure what I would do in your situation, but whatever *you* do decide it will be difficult.
I think you mentioned your DS saw the aftermath & is having some difficulties. How is your DD, the one in high school, doing?

agnes!

 

[chris1gill]

You know, your post has really bothered me... I'm so sorry about the loss of your beautiful Jack Russell Terrior... You can what if the whole situation forever, but I don't think you ever saw what happened as a possibility... However, if your other dog did do this, you realize there is very little difference between your wonderful terrier and a baby? Your second dog could do this to a baby or small child, and I think would be more likely to do it now that he has the taste of blood.... I would hate for you to have anything like that happen.... I would really consider what might happen should you keep your second dog

 

[Christine]

Sorry about all the heartache. I'm pretty sure what I would do in your situation, but whatever *you* do decide it will be difficult.
I think you mentioned your DS saw the aftermath & is having some difficulties. How is your DD, the one in high school, doing?

agnes!

agnes,

My high school daughter really seems totally unaffected. To the point that it bothers me. I know everyone handles their pain differently and she is kind of one to hold it in, so maybe this is how she is going to deal with it. When the whole thing happened, she was in the shower. She never saw the dog in the yard, never saw me carry it out.

 

[Christine]

You know, your post has really bothered me... I'm so sorry about the loss of your beautiful Jack Russell Terrior... You can what if the whole situation forever, but I don't think you ever saw what happened as a possibility... However, if your other dog did do this, you realize there is very little difference between your wonderful terrier and a baby? Your second dog could do this to a baby or small child, and I think would be more likely to do it now that he has the taste of blood.... I would hate for you to have anything like that happen.... I would really consider what might happen should you keep your second dog

chris1gill--this is why I am waiting to hear from the vet and a trainer. I want to hear a professional opinion on this as to how dogs really are when something like this happens.

First off, this attack is not quite the same as some of those that I've had the "pleasure" of reading over the past two days. She did not tear Lola to pieces (for lack of a better phrase) which is common in a blood thirsty animal. Lola had one bite wound in a fatal area. There was no tearing or evidence of a full-out total attack. It's as if she snapped at her and hit the wrong place.

 

[Sherri]

No, I'm still waiting for both the vet and a trainer to return my calls. I know everyone has their lives but when you are grieving like I am, it's really hard not to feel like the center of the universe.

The receptionist at the vet said that he *might* call me before his appointments started at 9:00 a.m., but if not, it would be sometime after 10:30. I asked that he examine my dog's neck wound to see if it is consistent with a dog bite. At that point, I will discuss the other dog.

I understand how you feel. And quite honestly, I would imagine that the Vet. would be able to squeeze in a phone call to you between appointments, considering how servere the circumstances were.