Philly Inquirer: Growing anxiety of airport pat-downs and scanners

[disneyfan55]

Of course it's easy to feel that way if you don't look like the profiling group.
Sorry, but talk to me after police departments start harrassing blue eyed, white skin blonde boys and tell me how well the system works. Like I said, that women knew exactly what to say to make her story seem plausible, she did not say 2 caucasian males carjacked her, she played on the stereotype that all african american males are criminals and the police played on the stereotype that african american males that' drive luxury cars are drug dealers. No way, can that statistically my son should have been pulled over 3 times in 14 days other than preconcieved notions.

I am not saying it's perfect, but if I were in full muslim garb in a airport I would almost Expect to be checked further. That's just the way I truly feel. If I were looking like I was a member of a suspect group I really wouldn't think it odd. That's me. I'm sorry your son was stopped so many times. It really isn't right, I have been stopped by police as well, just show the license etc and that's it. Odd 3 times in 2 weeks but there could be a reason. What reason was he given. My son is blueeyed/light brown hair and has been stopped as well. I guess I don't take that much offense. Hard to write actual feelings so don't take the profiling as a hate issue, sorry if I offend. My issue is more with all the privacy issues. I don't like the filming (I know they say not saved but I've read that the machines have the capabilities and can save) xray or enhanced searches. I really think that since many pilots are having issues, there must be something not right going on.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

I understand that and it is not a perfect way but I do know it can work. Even if you are in group that is one that may be considered to be profiled, many law enforcement will be accused of profiling anyway! My husband was in a local police dept for over 25 years, and that seems to be always the case, so what to do. I know disguise can be made, but if you look at what the current terrorists, look like, what else should we think. Even Juan Williams was fired for making an honest opinion of his thoughts. No all are not terrorists, but the current ones wishing harm in general do have a certain appearance. I know this is hard to put in writing, I'm just trying to do my best to explain. I really don't think these scanners/pat downs will catch any more than what was done in the past. It seems every time 1 person does something or takes something on board all are suffering - shoes liquids and now toner cartridges. What will be next.

So what nationality/ethniticity are you? You failed to address that question.

 

[eliza61]

I really don't understand the hoopla and frustration. I really really don't.

If someone wants to pat me down, have at it. It's 30 seconds out of my life and I will never see that person again. Who cares!!! Are we so afraid of human contact that someone's hand placed near you freaks you out? It's someone's hand on your clothes. If someone is sick enough to derive pleasure from touching my wobbly stomach and thighs for a millisecond - their issue...not mine.

Why sweat the small stuff??

And no, I don't feel it necessarialy makes us safer...but...it might make someone somewhere think twice about bringing something illegal on board. So it's worth it to me.

I actually understand more over the worries about how identifyable the scans are. The pat downs I don't get either.

 

[disneyfan55]

So what nationality/ethniticity are you? You failed to address that question.

I don't think anyone asked but white. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't be profiled if we fit the discription of those wishing to cause issues and I've stated I wouldn't mind that. I don't think that the black population fits into that category of those wishing to blow up planes either just to let you know.

 

[eliza61]

I am not saying it's perfect, but if I were in full muslim garb in a airport I would almost Expect to be checked further. That's just the way I truly feel. If I were looking like I was a member of a suspect group I really wouldn't think it odd. That's me. I'm sorry your son was stopped so many times. It really isn't right, I have been stopped by police as well, just show the license etc and that's it. Odd 3 times in 2 weeks but there could be a reason. What reason was he given. My son is blueeyed/light brown hair and has been stopped as well. I guess I don't take that much offense. Hard to write actual feelings so don't take the profiling as a hate issue, sorry if I offend. My issue is more with all the privacy issues. I don't like the filming (I know they say not saved but I've read that the machines have the capabilities and can save) xray or enhanced searches. I really think that since many pilots are having issues, there must be something not right going on.

See but IMO that makes you a bit hypocritical. You can't scream on one hand the constitution gives us rights and then on the other hand say if I'm a certain religion or race, I should "expect" to be stopped. either we all have the same rights or we dont.

No, you most certainly did not offend. I've never found any of you post offensive. I much prefer talking about it. I just wanted you to see how one solution may be a grave concern to you while another is totally reprehensible to another.

pretty much my son was not given a reason for the stops. He is only 18 so we've pretty much taught him to never ever question the cops when he is without an adult, mainly due to the history of policemen and african americans. I simply cannot take the chance that if he does ask a question like "is there a problem sir," it won't lead to another "rodney King" incident. extreme I know but once again, our history in this country suports that assumption. so both my sons have been taught when approached by cops to 1) do not say any thing beyond their name and address. 2) immediately ask to call a parent. 3) comply fully and keep hands in plain sight at all times.

We did call the police deptartment and told they were "routine" sobriety checks. We do not believe them.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

I don't think anyone asked but white. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't be profiled if we fit the discription of those wishing to cause issues and I've stated I wouldn't mind that. I don't think that the black population fits into that category of those wishing to blow up planes either just to let you know.

I did ask:

I have to ask, since you seem to be pro-profiling, what is your national origin, your ethniticity?

And you just nailed the point I was trying to make. You do not fit the profile, so you have no fear. You would not be inconvenienced and you would actually be less inconvenienced if we went right to just profiling.

Can you tell me, what did Timothy McVey look like again?

 

[disneyfan55]

See but IMO that makes you a bit hypocritical. You can't scream on one hand the constitution gives us rights and then on the other hand say if I'm a certain religion or race, I should "expect" to be stopped. either we all have the same rights or we dont.

No, you most certainly did not offend. I've never found any of you post offensive. I much prefer talking about it. I just wanted you to see how one solution may be a grave concern to you while another is totally reprehensible to another.

pretty much my son was not given a reason for the stops. He is only 18 so we've pretty much taught him to never ever question the cops when he is without an adult, mainly due to the history of policemen and african americans. I simply cannot take the chance that if he does ask a question like "is there a problem sir," it won't lead to another "rodney King" incident. extreme I know but once again, our history in this country suports that assumption. so both my sons have been taught when approached by cops to 1) do not say any thing beyond their name and address. 2) immediately ask to call a parent. 3) comply fully and keep hands in plain sight at all times.

We did call the police deptartment and told they were "routine" sobriety checks. We do not believe them.

Like I said not perfect and won't stop everything. Sorry for what happened to your son. It just seems too much privacy is being taken away and don't know what to think about it or how to stop it.

 

[eliza61]

Like I said not perfect and won't stop everything. Sorry for what happened to your son. It just seems too much privacy is being taken away and don't know what to think about it or how to stop it.

It is a serious concern. I think what we have to do is keep searching for methods that can work.

1) if we decide some profiling is successful, are we ready to pay and train high quality individuals?

2) are we really looking into how much information is being collected, can other ways be found.

While I love us yanks, we have a horrible habit of wanting "immediate, silver bullet" types of solutions. Patience is not our strong suit and the issues we are facing are not going to be fixed in a year.

lastly, speaking of cops, my dad was a retired nyc cop and he use to say all the time "as fast as some one comes up with a new alarm, a crook is coming up with a way to circumvent it". the same is true with Terrorism, we may very well find in a year or two pat downs and scanners are not that effective. We must move from this 1 solution mentality.

 

[disneyfan55]

It is a serious concern. I think what we have to do is keep searching for methods that can work.

1) if we decide some profiling is successful, are we ready to pay and train high quality individuals?

2) are we really looking into how much information is being collected, can other ways be found.

While I love us yanks, we have a horrible habit of wanting "immediate, silver bullet" types of solutions. Patience is not our strong suit and the issues we are facing are not going to be fixed in a year.

lastly, speaking of cops, my dad was a retired nyc cop and he use to say all the time "as fast as some one comes up with a new alarm, a crook is coming up with a way to circumvent it". the same is true with Terrorism, we may very well find in a year or two pat downs and scanners are not that effective. We must move from this 1 solution mentality.

I know bad situtation. Yes, as soon as we come up with a preventative, the crooks follow suit and circumvent it.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Why take half measures?

 

[drew64]

I really don't understand the hoopla and frustration. I really really don't.

If someone wants to pat me down, have at it. It's 30 seconds out of my life and I will never see that person again. Who cares!!! Are we so afraid of human contact that someone's hand placed near you freaks you out? It's someone's hand on your clothes. If someone is sick enough to derive pleasure from touching my wobbly stomach and thighs for a millisecond - their issue...not mine.

Why sweat the small stuff??

And no, I don't feel it necessarialy makes us safer...but...it might make someone somewhere think twice about bringing something illegal on board. So it's worth it to me.

This rticle is about flight attendants, etc. These people have to go through it multiple times and with the same TSA agents over and over again. Sorry, much more chance of abuse and harrassment by the agents on these people who see and feel them up day after day.

 

[Hannathy]

Honestly if a grown man throws up in his driveway from having a pat down done, I'm not sure I want my life in his hands flying my plane!! He sounds rather unstable and unable to deal with anything out of the ordinary or stressful. What's he do if something unpleasant happens up in the air? I want someone who can handle stress a bit better than that


And unless your Megan Fox I really doubt any of the TSA agents really want to feel your private parts any more than you want them to. It is a job, not a great one and one that has gotten even worse with having to do all these pat downs.

 

[Tara]

I don't think anyone asked but white. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't be profiled if we fit the discription of those wishing to cause issues and I've stated I wouldn't mind that. I don't think that the black population fits into that category of those wishing to blow up planes either just to let you know.

But that doesn't mean black people are less subject to extra scrutiny. I can only speak to my personal experience, but here goes. I travel a LOT with my boss and have done so for the last 11 years. I'm a white woman, just turned 40. He's a black man 23 years older than me. In our home airport, almost nothing out of the ordinary ever happens because most people there know him very well. But in other airports, I couldn't tell you the number of times he's been pulled aside, had his bag searched and researched, been secondarily screened even when he didn't set off the metal detector, etc. He is always polite and congenial. He always goes way overboard on taking things out of his bag, like power cords, so that it's clear he isn't trying to conceal anything, yet it happens WAY too often to be coincidental.

I understand that lots of people think there's a certain "type" that is more likely to be a terrorist. Not only do I think that's hogwash (and plays right into the hands of people who want to lull us into thinking that way, not all improper or overzealous searches are about terrorism. Everyone has prejudices and while I'm sure it's a small number, there are TSA agents who will see a person of color - not just Middle Easterners - and their reaction will be "I don't trust them, I think that bag needs to go through again" or whatever, and that reaction has nothing to do with threat to security.

The more we profile, the more we actually endanger national security, IMO.

 

[jodifla]

Honestly if a grown man throws up in his driveway from having a pat down done, I'm not sure I want my life in his hands flying my plane!! He sounds rather unstable and unable to deal with anything out of the ordinary or stressful. What's he do if something unpleasant happens up in the air? I want someone who can handle stress a bit better than that


And unless your Megan Fox I really doubt any of the TSA agents really want to feel your private parts any more than you want them to. It is a job, not a great one and one that has gotten even worse with having to do all these pat downs.

And this is why he chose to speak through his union head, and not directly ID himself.

Many, many pilots are war veterans. Who knows, maybe this person was a POW? Or had some other traumatic event that made the pat down so difficult for him.

The other thing is....he's not alone. The pilots are en masse saying that these pat downs are basically molestation.

 

[maxiesmom]

The other thing is....he's not alone. The pilots are en masse saying that these pat downs are basically molestation.

As I highly doubt the pilots "en masse" have gone thru the pat downs yet, this sounds more like whining and complaining than anything else. I bet it is more about being slowed down at the check point than any real, experienced issues with the pat down.

 

[Hannathy]

As I highly doubt the pilots "en masse" have gone thru the pat downs yet, this sounds more like whining and complaining than anything else. I bet it is more about being slowed down at the check point than any real, experienced issues with the pat down.

I agree with this, it is an inconvenience they don't want to deal with.

I also reiterate that anyone who can't "deal" with the stress of getting patted down without throwing up I don't think I want flying my plane with my life in their hands. What other stress is going to make them unable to operate?

 

[maxiesmom]

I also reiterate that anyone who can't "deal" with the stress of getting patted down without throwing up I don't think I want flying my plane with my life in their hands. What other stress is going to make them unable to operate?

I agree with you.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I agree with this, it is an inconvenience they don't want to deal with.

I also reiterate that anyone who can't "deal" with the stress of getting patted down without throwing up I don't think I want flying my plane with my life in their hands. What other stress is going to make them unable to operate?

Did you ever consider that he may be a survivor of molestation?

 

[Hannathy]

Did you ever consider that he may be a survivor of molestation?

Don't care. He has my life and the life of many many people in his hands and has to be able to not just function but function extremely well under stress, no matter the source or cause. If he can't then flying commercially should not be his job. In some things in life there is no touchy feely be nice about it, cut them some slack wiggle room and flying an entire airplane with people in it is one such instance. Not everyone is cut out for this job and maybe he isn't.

If he hasn't come to terms with it and moved on then maybe therapy and a ground job until he does.

 

[C.Ann]

And this is why he chose to speak through his union head, and not directly ID himself.

Many, many pilots are war veterans. Who knows, maybe this person was a POW? Or had some other traumatic event that made the pat down so difficult for him.

The other thing is....he's not alone. The pilots are en masse saying that these pat downs are basically molestation.

Did you ever consider that he may be a survivor of molestation?

Totally agree - and since the "complaining" has reached the point where entire pilot and flight attendant unions have banded together in regards to these issues, I don't see it as "one" unstable person.. (And would never paint someone that way and insist that he (or she) is unreliable simply because they may have a traumactic incident in their past that would lead them to have such a reaction as a result of being groped..

As for the word "molestation" - anyone who touches the private areas of my body (other than a doctor, nurse, or lover) without VERY good cause (random selection in an airport does not meet that criteria) is molesting me.. Sorry if some don't care for that word..

I know I don't have to fly - and I won't (nor will at least 5 other people that I personally know of right at this very moment).. If enough others follow suit (and voice their complaints via any and all appropriate channels) perhaps this policy will change..

According to what I read on the TSA site, ostomy bags and such do not have to be removed - nor will they (or the contents of such) be examined.. These can easily be purchased by terrorists - a perfect place to hide whatever it is that they wish to hide.. But an invasive/intrusive groping of a 3 yr. old (who has been "randomly" selected - or made the grave mistake of wiggling a finger inside the body scanner) is going to keep you safe? I don't think so..