Philly Inquirer: Growing anxiety of airport pat-downs and scanners

[jodifla]

From the Philadelphia Enquirer:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/busin..._scanners.html


Growing anxiety over airport pat-downs and scanners

By Linda Loyd

Inquirer Staff Writer
excerpts:


In the new pat-downs, officers use open hands "and fingers" - instead of the backs of their hands - "to go over one's body, including the genital area and breasts," according to a statement by a pilot group upset by the procedure.

The head of the US Airways pilots union, Capt. Mike Cleary, said Wednesday that he had learned in informal conversations with TSA personnel that security officers now "are to run their hand up the inside of your leg until they meet bone resistance. In addition, they use a circular pat-down routine from the small of the stomach, around through a person's crotch, and up into the small of the back."


Cleary said one US Airways pilot who went through a pat-down had his "genitals grabbed repeatedly" and was "highly traumatized. When I was talking to him on the phone a few days later, he told me that he had just thrown up in his driveway. He was so worried about going to work. This particular fellow has two hip replacements, and so he cannot go through the backscatter machine [the full-body scanner]."

 

[ScarlettDarling]

That is really sad and disgusting. If it is doing that to the pilots who are flying our planes, how are they going to be in any mood to fly after being molested? We are less secure now with these stupid machines. It's either they see you naked or you get molested and fondled. Women have said that during the pat down, the person lifted and cupped their breasts. This is not acceptable and people shouldn't put up with it. I already bought my plane ticket before I heard about the scanners being put in my airport so I have to fly but this will be the last time. It's really sad that it has come this this.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

Women have said that during the pat down, the person lifted and cupped their breasts

Yes, this is part of the "enhanced" pat down procedure.

If it is doing that to the pilots who are flying our planes, how are they going to be in any mood to fly after being molested?

A security pat down is not the quite same thing as being molested.

I don't like all the security procedures and have my doubts as to how much this really enhances security, but I'll put up with it to fly. If you don't like it, you can still take the train, bus, or drive without going through a security check.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

That is really sad and disgusting. If it is doing that to the pilots who are flying our planes, how are they going to be in any mood to fly after being molested?

I wouldn't call it molestation...they are being searched, there is no intent to abuse someone in any negative manner.

We are less secure now with these stupid machines.

How are we less secure? We could debate the effectiveness, but it's not a step backwards.

This is not acceptable and people shouldn't put up with it.

People have a choice not to put up with it. You can file formal complaints to your representatives and to the TSA. You can also choose to find a lawyer willing to file a class action (or join one that is already started). You also can choose alternate means as you indicated:

I already bought my plane ticket before I heard about the scanners being put in my airport so I have to fly but this will be the last time. It's really sad that it has come this this.

 

[disneyfan55]

That is really sad and disgusting. If it is doing that to the pilots who are flying our planes, how are they going to be in any mood to fly after being molested? We are less secure now with these stupid machines. It's either they see you naked or you get molested and fondled. Women have said that during the pat down, the person lifted and cupped their breasts. This is not acceptable and people shouldn't put up with it. I already bought my plane ticket before I heard about the scanners being put in my airport so I have to fly but this will be the last time. It's really sad that it has come this this.

in Orlando I read just installed. Sickening that they seem to think this will protect us. I really don't think it will. These machines are in some courthouses as well as a bus station I read as well. There are also 'vans' riding around with these scanners that peer into cars/trucks etc. On AOL yesterday. NO privacy it seems.

 

[Kim&Chris]

I'm not thrilled about it either, but I just keep thinking "what if they're actually able to catch just ONE person up to 'no good' with these scanners?".

And, like others have said, there's always the train.

 

[DCTooTall]

in Orlando I read just installed. Sickening that they seem to think this will protect us. I really don't think it will. These machines are in some courthouses as well as a bus station I read as well. There are also 'vans' riding around with these scanners that peer into cars/trucks etc. On AOL yesterday. NO privacy it seems.

OT and i'm sorry.... But somehow I couldn't help but hear Uncle Orville's complaint from the Carousel of Progress at the end of your message.


Ya know you've been on the Carousel too many times when you start hearing other's people's comments in the voice of a line from the attraction.

 

[disneyfan55]

OT and i'm sorry.... But somehow I couldn't help but hear Uncle Orville's complaint from the Carousel of Progress at the end of your message.


Ya know you've been on the Carousel too many times when you start hearing other's people's comments in the voice of a line from the attraction.

I know if only times were simple like back then . Now we are scanned, filmed and have RFID for some schools. We can be watched and tracked so easily. They are even going to put transmitters in pills so they know we take them! That I will never do.

 

[n2mm]

guess I'll see what all the talk is about, I'll be heading to MCO in a couple of hours.

 

[kaytieeldr]

in Orlando I read just installed. Sickening that they seem to think this will protect us. I really don't think it will. These machines are in some courthouses as well as a bus station I read as well. There are also 'vans' riding around with these scanners that peer into cars/trucks etc. On AOL yesterday. NO privacy it seems.

Since the quoted article talks about enhanced pat-downs, and not the scanners in any way - until scanners in vans can pat down passengers in other vehicles through both the van's walls and the other vehicles' walls, scanners in vans isn't relevant to this discussion

 

[disneyfan55]

Since the quoted article talks about enhanced pat-downs, and not the scanners in any way - until scanners in vans can pat down passengers in other vehicles through both the van's walls and the other vehicles' walls, scanners in vans isn't relevant to this discussion

Maybe the article doesn't but the title of the thread does so maybe it is relevant to the OP

 

[CPT Tripss]

Maybe the article doesn't but the title of the thread does so maybe it is relevant to the OP

These topics on scans and patdowns are all about privacy. Thanks for your PP.

 

[disneyfan55]

These topics on scans and patdowns are all about privacy. Thanks for your PP.

Yes, that's the feeling I have as well. You're welcome!!

 

[eliza61]

I know if only times were simple like back then . Now we are scanned, filmed and have RFID for some schools. We can be watched and tracked so easily. They are even going to put transmitters in pills so they know we take them! That I will never do.

And this is why we are so stressed. By the time the average person even gets to the airport we've read so many reports of babies being raped, pictures being sold on the web, child pornographers being hired right out of jail, on and on.


We got a thread over on the community board where the women says that the TSA agents molest little girls and how can she prevent it without going to jail!!


Not making light of anyone's honest concerns but try to at least keep a cool head about the concerns. If you're concerns are about privacy totally cool, try and collect as much information (which is admittedly hard and time consuming) as you can. I know in Philly you can go to the airport and get a peak at the machine, not sure how much information they will give you about the pat downs though.

My take is this.
1) I will try to find out as much information on the scanners (my 1st choice as I can)
2) not all TSA agents are deranged psycho-rapist baby killers, if I am screened for a pat down I will not assume immediately that I am going to be raped. I will try to follow instructions and ask questions as I deem necessary.
3) if I have a question I will politely and firmly request a supervisor and file my complaint.
4) If there ever comes a time when I think flying has become to intrusive I will exercise my right not to do it and find alternate means of transportation. I will also let the airlines know why they are not getting my business. forget the constitution I firmly believe nothing changes America like money. When the airlines begin to lose business because of the security measures then they will change.
5) be careful what you ask for, if we want better or more effective security you better be prepared to pay for it. the airlines will do what the airlines have always done, pass the cost onto the consumer.

Deep breathe people, deep breathe,

 

[disneyfan55]

And this is why we are so stressed. By the time the average person even gets to the airport we've read so many reports of babies being raped, pictures being sold on the web, child pornographers being hired right out of jail, on and on.


We got a thread over on the community board where the women says that the TSA agents molest little girls and how can she prevent it without going to jail!!


Not making light of anyone's honest concerns but try to at least keep a cool head about the concerns. If you're concerns are about privacy totally cool, try and collect as much information (which is admittedly hard and time consuming) as you can. I know in Philly you can go to the airport and get a peak at the machine, not sure how much information they will give you about the pat downs though.

Op, I couldn't follow the link it says the page is gone do you have another?

Deep breathe people, deep breathe,

I am cool about it and these things ARE happening. No every TSA agent isn't going to molest, maybe everyone won't have a medical issue but that's not issue. Privacy is becoming a thing of the past. There are many other tracking situations that are happening now.

Also, while anyone might be up to no good, all are not checked so profiling (I know touchy subject) might be necessary. Scanning the people that are the most suspect will most likely get better results than scanning the family on a trip to WDW. We can't profile, but we can scan with no rhyme or reason.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

Also, while anyone might be up to no good, all are not checked so profiling (I know touchy subject) might be necessary. Scanning the people that are the most suspect will most likely get better results than scanning the family on a trip to WDW. We can't profile, but we can scan with no rhyme or reason.

It may offer a short term, immediate shift, but long term, profiling has a flaw. That family going to Disney may no longer be a true family, rather a made up family of terrorists. Rule of war, if you want to cause harm to your enemy, the element of surprise will always win.

I have to ask, since you seem to be pro-profiling, what is your national origin, your ethniticity?

 

[eliza61]

I am cool about it and these things ARE happening. No every TSA agent isn't going to molest, maybe everyone won't have a medical issue but that's not issue. Privacy is becoming a thing of the past. There are many other tracking situations that are happening now.

Also, while anyone might be up to no good, all are not checked so profiling (I know touchy subject) might be necessary. Scanning the people that are the most suspect will most likely get better results than scanning the family on a trip to WDW. We can't profile, but we can scan with no rhyme or reason.

And that's one of the hard issues DF, we are such a large country, there is no "system" that will be cool with every one. You worry about privacy, let me tell you as an AA no way, no how will I allow profiling. You worry about some lunatic tsa agent keeping your pictures, I worry about some over zealous tsa guard beating the &^% out of my son because he has a Muslim sounding name.

Last summer when that crazy lady said her and her daughter were carjacked by 2 black men and they found her at the Grand floridian, my son was the one pulled over 3X's for no other reason than being Black and driving. And unfortunately I've got 150 years of history to prove that this country does not treat African americans fairly. Then of course we had that wackadoodle elected offical who refused to marry couples if it was a biracial couple and he was an town official. oh yeah, he's some one I could trust to profile honestly and correctly.

So what do we do? At least with a physical assualt there may be physical evidence to prove abuse but what happens when racial profiling starts? like I said our country past behaviour does not inspire me to think I can trust them to "randomly" profile.

 

[disneyfan55]

It may offer a short term, immediate shift, but long term, profiling has a flaw. That family going to Disney may no longer be a true family, rather a made up family of terrorists. Rule of war, if you want to cause harm to your enemy, the element of surprise will always win.

I have to ask, since you seem to be pro-profiling, what is your national origin, your ethniticity?

I understand that and it is not a perfect way but I do know it can work. Even if you are in group that is one that may be considered to be profiled, many law enforcement will be accused of profiling anyway! My husband was in a local police dept for over 25 years, and that seems to be always the case, so what to do. I know disguise can be made, but if you look at what the current terrorists, look like, what else should we think. Even Juan Williams was fired for making an honest opinion of his thoughts. No all are not terrorists, but the current ones wishing harm in general do have a certain appearance. I know this is hard to put in writing, I'm just trying to do my best to explain. I really don't think these scanners/pat downs will catch any more than what was done in the past. It seems every time 1 person does something or takes something on board all are suffering - shoes liquids and now toner cartridges. What will be next.

 

[eliza61]

I understand that and it is not a perfect way but I do know it can work. Even if you are in group that is one that may be considered to be profiled, many law enforcement will be accused of profiling anyway! My husband was in a local police dept for over 25 years, and that seems to be always the case, so what to do. I know disguise can be made, but if you look at what the current terrorists, look like, what else should we think. Even Juan Williams was fired for making an honest opinion of his thoughts. No all are not terrorists, but the current ones wishing harm in general do have a certain appearance. I know this is hard to put in writing, I'm just trying to do my best to explain. I really don't think these scanners/pat downs will catch any more than what was done in the past. It seems every time 1 person does something or takes something on board all are suffering - shoes liquids and now toner cartridges. What will be next.

Of course it's easy to feel that way if you don't look like the profiling group.
Sorry, but talk to me after police departments start harrassing blue eyed, white skin blonde boys and tell me how well the system works. Like I said, that women knew exactly what to say to make her story seem plausible, she did not say 2 caucasian males carjacked her, she played on the stereotype that all african american males are criminals and the police played on the stereotype that african american males that drive luxury cars are drug dealers. No way, can that statistically my son should have been pulled over 3 times in 14 days other than preconcieved notions.

It's hard. also remember, we're not getting trained professionals, we're getting 13/hour general public. Do I really want some guy from Mobile Alabama profiling me?

 

[Minnesota!]

I really don't understand the hoopla and frustration. I really really don't.

If someone wants to pat me down, have at it. It's 30 seconds out of my life and I will never see that person again. Who cares!!! Are we so afraid of human contact that someone's hand placed near you freaks you out? It's someone's hand on your clothes. If someone is sick enough to derive pleasure from touching my wobbly stomach and thighs for a millisecond - their issue...not mine.

Why sweat the small stuff??

And no, I don't feel it necessarialy makes us safer...but...it might make someone somewhere think twice about bringing something illegal on board. So it's worth it to me.