PHD.....is it possible to find grants/loans

[mistysue]

DH got all of his schooling free... but most grad students leave with a lot of debt from living. His PhD was 4 years of working 80+ hours/week. He graduated to get a 3 year contract- and works at least 80/hours/week just to stay competitive. He is actually really good at what he does and we can expect him to go through at least a few more short contracts before anybody might hire him for tenure-track. Then it will take a few years before they would give him tenure.

It's not like you graduate and just get handed a better job or a raise. In most fields you could expect to have to move across the country a few times. Right now, a lot of his colleagues are having to leave the country because the economy means nobody wants to hire anyone. DH has two bachelor's degrees, a teaching license, his MA, PhD and has been nominated for awards but doesn't have a job... because nobody is hiring. He is a mathematician- so it's not a subject being cut out right now either.

 

[Darcy03231]

DS#1 is starting his PhD program this fall. Since he is handling all of his own finances now, I don't have all the particulars, but from what he's said it isn't going to cost him much (if anything). He'll be doing some teaching which he'll get a stipend for and he also got a grant (research?). I believe he said that his tuition is covered by the school (but I could have that wrong). He's in the engineering field.

 

[Swan4Me]

The PHD would provide an awesome large salary, tenure and the advantage of our children attending that university for free!

One more FYI-my BIL started his college teaching career 35 years ago with a PHD. He was in our city for a few years (where he met my Sis) and realized he would never get Tenure at this University
& move 6 states away where he got that tenured position

Just because your DH gets that PHD does not guarentee a job at the particular University -nor guarentees tenure.

 

[allison443]

People in our county are losing jobs at astonishing rates. The largest employer is the University. It does not have a PHD program.

The business that DH has been in for over 20 yrs is dying. Textiles are out the window.....or I mean sent to China.

The PHD would provide an awesome large salary, tenure and the advantage of our children attending that university for free!

I agree tuition would be a great benefit, but how old are your kids? Would your dh earn his PhD and get hired by the time they are ready for college?
Would he have to relocate to earn the degree and then teach at your local university?

 

[Tistal]

momxx5,

What's his degree? The statistics for completing a PhD AND getting a tenure track (TT) position for MANY majors right now is abysmal. As most posters said, most programs pay for someone to go as long as you're willing to work slave wages and slave hours.

I've been in adjunct purgatory for 3 years now; it's not nearly as glamorous as you may think it is. Your DH will basically be an adjunct (honestly, where I am now TAs are treated better than adjuncts) for the entire time he is working on his degree.

I am at the point where I was ready to go back to school. However, with my major I was advised by people I am close to to not go back to school right now and attempt to pursue a career in the corporate jungle and wait to see if the economy turns around. The statistics for many majors is only 50% of graduates will find a TT position; projections are that it will be even worse as funding is cut.

Quite frankly, it's A LOT cheaper for a university to hire an adjunct than a TT professor. Example: another professor (one who I trust greatly, advised me on this subject and was one of my profs during my master's program) taught 2 classes last summer and made more to teach those two classes than I make of two "full time" semesters. I could mention that was before all of the nice benefits he gets which I do not. Compile that with there are people who have their PhD who are adjuncting because they cannot find positions because universities aren't hiring. In the 4 years I've been at the university I'm at I think the entire school has hired less than 10 TT individuals; it's a large university. Many of our sports games are played on ESPN.

For one position, a department may get upwards of 150 applications. I'm not exaggerating; I'm simply giving you the honest truth and facts.

I would suggest checking out Chronicle http://chronicle.com/section/Home/5 and asking on the forums there. You'll find individuals from the field your DH is in, and they'll give you honest, hard truth answers. You may also want to read some on Inside Higher Ed http://www.insidehighered.com/home

Do I still want to get my PhD? Very much so. However, I know it would break my soul to spend 5-ish years in school just to go back to adjunct purgatory. Without knowing your husband's major it makes advice difficult to give. It also depends on how long he's been out of school.

I can paint the bleakest picture about adjunct purgatory if you need me to; it's certainly not a career that you can care for a family on. If my DH and I had to rely on just my income, I would qualify for government assistance and I teach the maximum amount the university will let me.

 

[Green Tea]

When you are mentioning certificates to teach at his college......are we talking a National Business College sort of place; a for profit degree granting institution? If so, then no way he is going to be able to use that degree to get into a PhD program. They just really are not the type of degrees that are accepted to get into graduate programs.

 

[momxx5]

Okay,

small town, medium size private university......in central NC with tons of kids coming from north east driving BMWs, etc to school.

Facts: adjuct salary includes benefits (thank God), but money is minimal

Once PHD obtained....salary in 6 figures and after teaching 5 yrs all children get to go FREE!!!!

I know schools like Duke & UNC changed the kids go free program and give discounts. I also know that UNC pays tons more for teaching Drs. than Duke (as per my specialist at UNC Hospital). He used to work at Duke, then transferred years ago for more money, more benefits and kids attendance.

 

[DPK400]

I wish you and your hubby best of luck. It sounds like a great deal and somewhat different from the norm. Most tenure programs are at least 5 years if not more. Depending on the school, there are three levels of professor and only a full professor will get anything close to 6 figures (unless of course it is some high demand field). My estimate is that it will take a minimum of 7 years to achieve Full Professor status at most schools in the country. I believe the ranking order is Assistant Professor (tenure track) then Associate Professor (some schools will offer tenure at this level) then finally professor. The people I've known in this track have taken generally around 5 years to go from assistant to associate Some colleges then require an additional 5 years to move from assistant to professor. Though it sounds like in your case, your husband will become a full professor immediately upon getting his degree, which sounds great. Good luck in his degree process as well as his job prospects.

 

[tar heel]

If UNC ever had a kids go free program, it was decades ago. I was working there in the early '80s and there was no such program then. It is much more typical for private schools to offer this.

Are you sure professors at the school your DH is teaching at are making six figures? Academia is a notoriously poorly paid field (I've worked at three colleges/universities) unless you're in medical/technical fields or at major universities. Average salaries ARE over $100,000 at UNC and Duke, but that figure is pulled up by the very high medical/dental/public health school salaries.

If you're saying your DH can keep his instructor job, work on a PhD at the same time and automatically get promoted when he gets the degree, then he clearly should look for money and do it. If he would have to be out looking for a job, then you need to be really careful with this as most assistant professors start with very low salaries (if they can find a job at all).

 

[tar heel]

DK400 -- An Associate Professor is higher than an Assistant Professor.

 

[DPK400]

DK400 -- An Associate Professor is higher than an Assistant Professor.

You are right, I had them backwards. Thanks for the correction.

 

[momxx5]

Uggg....a whole post disappeared.

Most of my children's friends' parents are professors at the university. So I have spoken to many professors there....one brutally honest and down to earth.


About 12 yrs ago DH got his MBA there, graduating top of class. Over the years DH has written almost a dozen letters on behalf of some professors to obtain tenure. DH did a lot of speaking on behalf of university and MBA program. He had an excellent relationship with Dean of Business School.
That was when he was employed. New Dean in place now, while each open position requires work experience(especially DH's internationaly exp.) the PHD is a requirement to obtain tenure and yes.....six figures.

This school has affluent and wealthy alumni. The school is growing both buildings and programs.

Recession hits hard here.....many jobs eliminated (never to return). DH was lucky to be able to teach at the university.
However to make this an actual career.....a PHD is necessary. This university only offers a few doctoral degrees. DH would have to attend school near by, however the expense is our huge bump in the road.
He is willing and quite capable of doing it.

Thanks for all your info.

 

[mistysue]

Would he really be able to get his PhD while keeping his job? I know a certain amount of the teaching DH did was part of his program, so it had to be done at the school he attended- not at another school as a paid job. If he hadn't been able to put in so many hours it would have taken much, much longer if it was possible at all.

 

[wasnotafan]

momxx5 I think we need a little more information.

You say "the university does not have a PhD program" So are we talking a community college or something? Because most decent 4-years have PhD students. It's how you get the money in. And if it's a community college, are they really offering 'tenure' in the sense we understand it?

If he has to go to another university to do the PhD, is that going to involve travel costs? Relocation? Dawn is completely right when she says grad school is brutal. I know it puts so much on my life I barely have time for a thing. You'll likely be functioning as a single mother essentially during this thing, and what income he may bring in from a stipend may be even less than what you have now, because the main point of a stipend is it means your salary is basically your free tuition. Can you afford that? Will the university you work at now hold his job? Someone leaving to pursue a degree is a pretty cheap way to save a few thousand, and I don't know a single school that hasn't had it's budget slashed at least once (most multiple) in the past few years.

At the very least please tell us what he's studying. The advice for saving up between liberal arts and the sciences is huge and I don't know that any of us can help until we know what he's even going for.

I'm not saying don't do it - I'm just saying be aware that the awesome rose colored future you have planned will probably take 10 years of work to get to.

This. Be aware that more and more universities are hiring part-time adjuncts with no benefits to replace retiring tenured faculty. Also many tenured faculty are "tenured" in that they have a job, but they are required to get grants to help fund the university. Going rate is around 45% of all grants go to "facilities and administration" for the university.

 

[Swan4Me]

This. Be aware that more and more universities are hiring part-time adjuncts with no benefits to replace retiring tenured faculty. Also many tenured faculty are "tenured" in that they have a job, but they are required to get grants to help fund the university. Going rate is around 45% of all grants go to "facilities and administration" for the university.

This happened to my cousin who was an adjunct Prof at the Uni here-she finally had enough -tired of not getting full professor status and went to teach High school, to at least get benefits

OP is it Elon? That is a very good NC private University

 

[jsmith]

OP you are in a catch 22. In order for your husband to get into a PhD program that he does not have to pay out of pocket for hes going to have to leave his current postion so he can teach and or do research at the university he is getting his PhD at. Doctoral students are nortorious for being overworked-my son-who is about one year from completeing his PhD in Physics ( University of Michigan) works as much as 100 hours a week between his teaching and research commitments. My younger son-getting his in engineering is in an employer sponsered program so he works his regular 40 hour job and then does an additional 30 or so devoted to school work. Its not an easy row to hoe, especially in a program that is paying you-good luck.

 

[NotUrsula]

Okay,

small town, medium size private university......in central NC with tons of kids coming from north east driving BMWs, etc to school.

Facts: adjuct salary includes benefits (thank God), but money is minimal

Once PHD obtained....salary in 6 figures and after teaching 5 yrs all children get to go FREE!!!!

I know schools like Duke & UNC changed the kids go free program and give discounts. I also know that UNC pays tons more for teaching Drs. than Duke (as per my specialist at UNC Hospital). He used to work at Duke, then transferred years ago for more money, more benefits and kids attendance.

You do know, don't you, that at almost all universities it is policy that they do not hire faculty who completed their terminal degrees at that university? They want people with fresh ideas, so they want you to bring that terminal degree from elsewhere.

I had to leave a technician job and move cross-country when I finished my terminal degree. I would have been willing to stay put for awhile and save up some money for the move, but the rule was that we were given 180 days to leave.

 

[crisi]

It seems to me that your husband's best advice is going to come from the tenured faculty at the school he is in on how best to afford the degree without quitting and risking his chances of getting rehired. It sounds like a very unusual situation, as I don't know anyone who has ever worked as an adjunct who has been promised a secure job. Most of the profs I know sweated out the tenure process AFTER getting their PhD. And some didn't make it. But academia is full of nepotism and favors.....

 

[tasha99]

You do know, don't you, that at almost all universities it is policy that they do not hire faculty who completed their terminal degrees at that university? They want people with fresh ideas, so they want you to bring that terminal degree from elsewhere.

I had to leave a technician job and move cross-country when I finished my terminal degree. I would have been willing to stay put for awhile and save up some money for the move, but the rule was that we were given 180 days to leave.

This isn't always true. I know it isn't the case at University of Oregon.

 

[Tistal]

If you're saying your DH can keep his instructor job, work on a PhD at the same time and automatically get promoted when he gets the degree, then he clearly should look for money and do it.

I agree with this except I'm adding get it in writing. (and much of the academic world envies you and your DH if this is the case because that's a dream ). I hope that is what you're saying because I can't even put into words how amazing that is.