Petite Woman Bumped from SWA for a hefty passenger.

[crashbb]

People keep saying that SW had a right to bump the passenger due to an oversell situation. I, however, don't see it as an oversell.

The stand-by passenger got the last seat on the plane, however the 14 year old still had a seat - there were still enough seats for everyone on the plane to get a seat. The problem is that the 14 year old needed two seats. From the sound of it, she did not book herself two seats (or her parents/guardians did not do so). If she had booked two seats, the standby passenger would not have been given a seat on the plane. It seems that the 14 year old (her parents) not only didn't purchase the required two seats but showed up at the very last minute (after standby passengers had been loaded).

On any airline that I've flown, they don't give standby passengers a seat until the flight is officially closed (i.e. after the stated latest check-in time). This means that any ticketed passenger who shows up after a standby passenger gets the seat does not bump off the standby passenger.

In the end, SW may have followed it's rules (though I suspect that there are no firm rules for this situation) but they definitely handled it badly. Having said that, I cannot imagine going to the media about it.

 

[NotUrsula]

I don't have a problem with that. I didn't as a child and I don't now. In my Tweens/teens--I had stopover flights where the gap between arrival and departure was significant enough to allow the opportunity to deplane and stretch your legs and use a real bathroom and get non-airplane food. At 16, the person can drive a car. I would not expect an airline to treat the teen any different than any other passenger.

I recall weather delays at Dallas fort worth. Boy is that a huge airport. I was 15 and ran like crazy to make my connection. I can see how a novice flyer might be nervous and flustered. But at 15, I didn't expect
the airlines to treat me like a child. As sheltered as I often was, it felt good to be independent and not have to be signed in and out of flights anymore. I don't recall when that stopped as I had some gaps in air travel. But I loved it.

But as I've pointed out twice now -- a 16 yo CANNOT check into a reputable hotel in the US, (let alone a 14 yo.) 20 years ago it was sometimes possible, when you didn't have to show ID, but not now. US hotels don't want the liability of an unsupervised minor. (In Europe it's easier to get lodging when you are younger; many hostels are happy to let you in as long as you have cash to pay in advance. Europeans in general are not so litigious as Americans are, though.)

The issue in re: minors isn't being alone in the airport, exactly. The issue is sleeping overnight in the airport. I agree that it is totally fine for a 16 yo to stretch her legs, use a bathroom and buy food and magazines, but not so fine for her to possibly go wandering out of the airport in a strange city looking for a place to sleep because the airline cannot find a seat for her until morning -- especially if she got stranded because she was on a connecting flight that came in late.

The older "petite" woman was not going to have to get a hotel room for the night, because she was confirmed on a later flight. The teen was confirmed on THIS flight, so it made sense to put her on it and avoid the dangers of stranding a 14 yo girl. (Note that the SWA spokesman who was talking to the news stations about this did use the term "strand" -- that strongly implies that she was a connecting passenger, because if it was just a matter of calling her parent(s) to come back to the gate and take care of all this, I'm sure that SWA would have done so. I've heard them take payment for second seats over the phone when the passenger at the gate has no cash and no CC.)

 

[AustinTink]

So you think that this girl was 6'2". HOw about 220 and, say, 5'2". Think she'll have the same proportions as your husband??? 6'2" and 220 is basically solid, not "fat"...220 and 5'2" is not just "solid" (she says from experience), and is going to fit into an airline seat MUCH differently.

Yes that's exactly what I think. My point was at 220 and tall, with a big ol' gut, my husband fit fine. She had to have been much, much larger and the parents should have known to buy or at least inquire about an extra seat. That was the first misstep in a series of errors for this poor girl's travel.

 

[jodifla]

Women is a crybaby who should be ashamed of herself. The 14-year-old's safety is more important than her getting on a flight a few hours earlier.

I flew standby when my connecting flight was delayed 4 hours and I was going to miss a shift of work. I knew that UNTIL THE PLANE PULLED AWAY FROM THE GATE I was subject to being pulled back off that plane if another passenger who had a confirmed seat on my plane made it to the airport on time.

The girl was obviously on a connecting flight, and SW had no other options, although apparently they could have been nicer about it.

 

[danalee]

it could be possible her parents had no idea she may need two seats...

Two years ago our nephew went to WDW with us and he is a very large fellow, now me being on the dis and what not, I knew of SW 2 seat for larger passengers rule, but guess what... He did not!
Now let me also say our nephew was 28 at the time, a very smart fellow, and had only flew one other time about 15 years prior. So it IS possible they didnt know~

Now this is more all over the news with the director guys and what not, but if you dont fly, plan on flying you just may not pay attention.

I still say whtever the reason, she was 14, for petes sake!! I dont care about whoever did what when they were 16 and where they slept and all that good stuff. The world is a different place now and the airport all night when you are 14... no sorry I dont think so. Would you want your 14 year old left at an airport for ANY reason??

We dont why she had to be on the plane alone, and if the parents/guardians knew of the larger passanger rule.. there is alot we dont know. But I stand by SW in NOT letting a 14 year old stranded in an airport alone~

 

[Ceila]

...SW had no other options, although apparently they could have been nicer about it.

Heck, we don't even know that, since all we have to go on are the statements from the woman who got bumped.

 

[Tammi67]

Women is a crybaby who should be ashamed of herself. The 14-year-old's safety is more important than her getting on a flight a few hours earlier.

I flew standby when my connecting flight was delayed 4 hours and I was going to miss a shift of work. I knew that UNTIL THE PLANE PULLED AWAY FROM THE GATE I was subject to being pulled back off that plane if another passenger who had a confirmed seat on my plane made it to the airport on time.

The girl was obviously on a connecting flight, and SW had no other options, although apparently they could have been nicer about it.

Oh for crying out loud. For the umpteenth time, everyone realizes that the girl had a confirmed seat. The standby passenger DID NOT, I repeat, DID NOT, take the girl's CONFIRMED seat. The standby passenger took a DIFFERENT, YET UNPURCHASED, seat. The girl needed an ADDITIONAL seat, on top of the already purchased seat, which by this time, WAS PURCHASED by the standby passenger. Sheesh.

I agree that SW did the right thing in getting the girl on the plane. I DO NOT agree that they handled it the right way. They should have asked for a volunteer, as airlines always do.

And on the note of the parents' not knowing she wouldn't fit.....I have a hard time believing that they don't know that their child is obese. Can she fit in a movie theater seat comfortably? Sit 2 to a seat comfortably on a school bus? Sit in a chair in a restaurant? If she is pushing it fitting into any of these other examples, come on, wake up and smell the coffee. People need to take accountability for their actions, or inactions, not throw out the "I didn't know" excuse.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I was Responding to a poster whose 16yo dd had to deplane for a 2 hour layover. That was separate from the OP. IME, there is ALWAYS a risk that Plans can be disrupted on a connection due to mechanical trouble, weather delays or a horiffic circumstance such as 9/11. While a minor cannot check into a hotel, as a parent allowing your child to travel alone, you are accepting a risk. Thankfully, the only time I got stranded--I was 18. Unfortunately, by the time we were able to deplane...all the hotels were booked as the airport shut down due to ice. We were all out of luck and slept in the airport.

So whether a minor can check into a hotel is moot when you knowingly place them on a flight with a connection with no backup plan.

But as I've pointed out twice now -- a 16 yo CANNOT check into a reputable hotel in the US, (let alone a 14 yo.) 20 years ago it was sometimes possible, when you didn't have to show ID, but not now. US hotels don't want the liability of an unsupervised minor. (In Europe it's easier to get lodging when you are younger; many hostels are happy to let you in as long as you have cash to pay in advance. Europeans in general are not so litigious as Americans are, though.)

The issue in re: minors isn't being alone in the airport, exactly. The issue is sleeping overnight in the airport. I agree that it is totally fine for a 16 yo to stretch her legs, use a bathroom and buy food and magazines, but not so fine for her to possibly go wandering out of the airport in a strange city looking for a place to sleep because the airline cannot find a seat for her until morning -- especially if she got stranded because she was on a connecting flight that came in late.

The older "petite" woman was not going to have to get a hotel room for the night, because she was confirmed on a later flight. The teen was confirmed on THIS flight, so it made sense to put her on it and avoid the dangers of stranding a 14 yo girl. (Note that the SWA spokesman who was talking to the news stations about this did use the term "strand" -- that strongly implies that she was a connecting passenger, because if it was just a matter of calling her parent(s) to come back to the gate and take care of all this, I'm sure that SWA would have done so. I've heard them take payment for second seats over the phone when the passenger at the gate has no cash and no CC.)

 

[FireDancer]

snip

The stand-by passenger got the last seat on the plane, however the 14 year old still had a seat - there were still enough seats for everyone on the plane to get a seat. The problem is that the 14 year old needed two seats. From the sound of it, she did not book herself two seats (or her parents/guardians did not do so). If she had booked two seats, the standby passenger would not have been given a seat on the plane. It seems that the 14 year old (her parents) not only didn't purchase the required two seats but showed up at the very last minute (after standby passengers had been loaded).

snip

Ding ding ding.

The minor was insufficiently ticketed. She needed two seats but had one so she only paid for 50% of her needed seats. The standby passenger, on the other hand, paid for 100% of her seat.

It isn't an issue of giving her seat to the standby lady because, not having bought the second seat, it wasn't hers to begin with. If you need two seats buy them (or buy your child them) and if you don't too bad so sad.

Everyone is making it sound like SWA gave the 14yo's seat to the standby passenger which is simply not the case. They gave the extra second seat that no one including the 14yo bought to the standby passenger and then took it away and gave it to the teen that should have bought it in the first place.

 

[CookieGVB]

ok, but sheesh...stand-by is still stand-by.

 

[freckles and boo]

The compassion here is overwhelming.

 

[FergieTCat]

Ding ding ding.

The minor was insufficiently ticketed. She needed two seats but had one so she only paid for 50% of her needed seats. The standby passenger, on the other hand, paid for 100% of her seat.

It isn't an issue of giving her seat to the standby lady because, not having bought the second seat, it wasn't hers to begin with. If you need two seats buy them (or buy your child them) and if you don't too bad so sad.

Everyone is making it sound like SWA gave the 14yo's seat to the standby passenger which is simply not the case. They gave the extra second seat that no one including the 14yo bought to the standby passenger and then took it away and gave it to the teen that should have bought it in the first place.

Where does it specifically state that in the article posted?

 

[FireDancer]

Where does it specifically state that in the article posted?

In an interview a representative of SW explicitly said the 14yo did not purchase two seats therefore the one petite passenger who had to give up her one seat must have given up the un-purchased second seat.

It is cited earlier in the thread (posts 42 and 67).

 

[Tammi67]

ok, but sheesh...stand-by is still stand-by.

Not after you're allowed to PURCHASE a ticket. Now you are a passenger who has paid for your seat, just like everyone else on the plane.

 

[danalee]

and maybe just maybe, the SW reps seen a 14yr old girl flying alone and knew that this was a problem with only the one seat open, and maybe just maybe they thought they were doing the right thing, the nice thing, the decent thing by not letting her stranded alone in an airport, for whatever reasons put her there.

my gosh people have some compassion..jeez

 

[mom3sonstt]

I haven't read all of this because it sounded like it was repeating itself. So if this is also a repeat of something brought up earlier I apologize. Was the teenager coming in from an earlier flight - if so - did the teenager have 2 seats on that earlier flight? Different flight crews use discretion differently. Maybe one flight crew thought the 14yo could fit (albeit uncomfortably) in one seat, but the second crew thought that two were required . When I travel I take my dialyisis machine with me. We have measured the case and it is barely within the acceptable dimensions of the airline we fly on. Some of the flight crews try to tell us it is too big (by eyeballing it - no one has ever measured it) When we explain what it is and that I can not check it they have always been ok with it. Other flight crews don't blink an eye and have even helped load it. So could the one seat - two seat have been at the discretion of the crew?

 

[danalee]

Also if this child was on another flight prior and this was connecting flight...apparently that portion of the flight did NOT make her have two seats???

 

[danalee]

whoops Tayna and I seem to post the same thing at the same time

 

[FergieTCat]

In an interview a representative of SW explicitly said the 14yo did not purchase two seats therefore the one petite passenger who had to give up her one seat must have given up the un-purchased second seat.

It is cited earlier in the thread (posts 42 and 67).

I can't even discuss this anymore.

The major point seems to be that a petite passenger was inconvenienced for the sake of a hefty 14 year old. I guess compassion doesn't come into play if the 14 year old is "hefty". What if the 14 year old had been average sized and needed two seats because she had a broken leg? Would it be such an issue?

 

[Tammi67]

and maybe just maybe, the SW reps seen a 14yr old girl flying alone and knew that this was a problem with only the one seat open, and maybe just maybe they thought they were doing the right thing, the nice thing, the decent thing by not letting her stranded alone in an airport, for whatever reasons put her there.

my gosh people have some compassion..jeez

Which posts are you reading where someone feels that the teen should have been left stranded?

As far as I can tell everyone agrees that SW did the right thing. What is up for dispute is that should the adult have been forced to leave the plane or should they have asked for volunteers first. I would venture to guess that in 99% of the cases, any airline asks for volunteers FIRST, before bumping someone that doesn't want to be bumped.