Pete's rants for 8/05/09

[JustSayin]

This is kind of interesting. I think that it’s pretty obvious that Disney is using the strategy of increasing their regular prices at the same time as they are offering substantial discounts.

This has a lot of upside for them. It puts them in the best position when/if the economy turns around. Their revenue model will be right on track, and while the economy is struggling, their deals seem even more substantial. Free dining looks like an even bigger + when free dining cost more.

I am not sure why Disney deserves such a beating for price increases when the average overall price Disney vacation this year is cheaper (by quite a bit) than the average Disney vacation did last year or the year before. This is true even after the price increase. I personally would rather pay an extra $4 per person for tickets and take my “free” nights at the hotel.

As far as the DP goes, I think the value was pretty much stripped from that plan when they eliminated the tip and appetizers. I can see the logic of paying more for the DP during busy times. You pay more for flights, lodging and certain meals at the busy times, why should the plan be any different? It’s a moot point as far as I am concerned, because it wasn’t a good deal for the way we eat to begin with.

 

[sjsjbrook]

I totally agreed with Pete's rant. When we went last in 2007 the dining plan included tip and an appetizer with the sit down meal. When that changed in 2008, I really started to look at the numbers. My two children eat very little and could've shared one meal, but when you have them for everyday, it doesn't make sense to save the credits, as they are just going to be left over at the end.

We have been looking at coming in 2010, but definately not be getting the dining plan. I have been looking into getting one annual pass and the tables in wonderland card. In the end it is going to cost us less and we won't overeat or have to drag the extra dessert around the park that someone didn't eat.

Since our last visit, stoller rental has doubled ( so of course we won't be renting one again), the dining plan has increased dramatically witht he removal of the tip and the appetizer and now the price increases. Being a larger family we also need to have more than one room, so in reality the amount we spend on a week at the park, staying onsite, we might as well go on a disney cruise.

 

[stitchlover]

We have been using the DDP since 2005 and we are always there during Peak Season, we going during Springbreak in March. At $39.99 per person I knew there were days that we probably weren't breaking even but over the course of the vacation we probably came out even. But with the type dining my family enjoys (a minimum of 3 character breakfast buffets) I'm not sure that $46.99 per person is worth it. I have been running the numbers off the menu from the places we plan to eat in the Spring and there just isn't a day that our food adds up to $141 for the day.

On another thread regarding this someone stated they didn't mind paying the higher prices because during "Peak Season" you are getting so much more for your money: more hours, more Spectromagic, more Fantasmic. When we were there this past March for 10 days the parks all closed by 9pm most nights. MK stayed open to 10pm one or twice maximum. There were days without Spectromagic and I think Fantasmic showed twice while we were there. So we actually had less time in the parks available to us this year. If Disney isn't do well financially by next March I assume we can anticipate reduced park hours again in March 2010. So then not only will I be paying more for my resort but more for DDP and still getting less.

 

[DaveH]

The price increases makes me wonder if the dinning prices will change seasonally for all things.

 

[JimFitz]

Price increases stink but Disney knows what they are doing and people will keep coming and coming....I know I will.

 

[FireDancer]

I don't haven't listened to the show yet and do agree that Disney should not have raised the prices this year. I do disagree however that they shouldn't charge more during the holidays. Like I said in a different thread demand goes up during the peak times and when demand goes up you can charge more.

I almost always agree with the guys but from what I am reading I have to disagree on this one.

I think keeping the tickets the same price as before and charging the holiday premium on that base price would have been the way to go. I know if I choose (and no matter what anyone says it is always a choice, you can chose a profession with a more flexible schedule or chose not to have or bring children) to travel during peak times I am going to pay peak price. Just like if I fly at peak times or consume almost any good or service that is seasonal I will pay more when demand peaks.

People can be upset about it but it is what it is. If the price increase removes enough demand the attendance will drop and the price will follow. If people still flock there they are justified in their price. Viva capitalism.

 

[briandancer]

Even on those rare occasions I might not agree with Pete, I LOVE when he gets riled up on the podcast. It's really, really entertaining!!! Keep it up, Pete! Give us more, more, more.

 

[bosox2001]

Even on those rare occasions I might not agree with Pete, I LOVE when he gets riled up on the podcast. It's really, really entertaining!!! Keep it up, Pete! Give us more, more, more.

I agree with you completely, Brian. The rants are fun to listen to. However, I do think it's important to emphasize again that the DDP is an elective offering. If it's overpriced, don't buy it! It's no different than pricing out all-inclusive vacations. If you don't think you're getting your money's worth out of the vacation, then you a) live with it knowing that you're getting some value out of the "convenience factor" of paying dining up front or b) choose something else. Disney fans have the choice to stay on site, purchase dining ahead of time, park hop, etc. The only part of a Disney vacation that is NOT elective is the theme park tix. That's why, I think it's fair to criticize Disney for raising park tix during this tough economic time, but it's a different thing all together to discuss the elective offerings.

 

[WDWtraveler27]

yeah i love it too

 

[FireDancer]

So you are saying that the concept of supply and demand that is taught in basic economics courses is what is behind these increases?

I'm talking specifically about the holiday premium. More people travel during peak periods which is an increase in demand. When demand goes up you can increase the price, in this case, charge a premium. If the premium is too high the demand will drop and the price will follow. Basically you want MC = MD. If it does you are perfectly priced.

I would prefer the price not be raised and the holiday premium based on the current price instead of the new one but it is what it is.

 

[DisneyKevin]

IThe only part of a Disney vacation that is NOT elective is the theme park tix. That's why, I think it's fair to criticize Disney for raising park tix during this tough economic time, but it's a different thing all together to discuss the elective offerings.

Every part of a Disney vacation is elective. You are not forced to visit.

I do disagree however that they shouldn't charge more during the holidays. Like I said in a different thread demand goes up during the peak times and when demand goes up you can charge more.

So you are willing to pay more to eat at Olive Garden on a Saturday night then you are on a Tuesday night? Around here, many more people dine out on a weekend then duriong the work week. Would you frequent a restaurant and be as forgiving if they decided to charge weekend premiums?

And if we follow this logic....would you be ok with paying a premium for entry into the parks during peak times. Disney could charge $10 extra per head for entry on July 4th.

And let's take it a step further....crowds get huge on Main Street prior to Spectromagic. Disney could charge an extra dollar per bottle for soda. The demand goes up, so the price should go up.

Or what if Disney decided to put a premium on fast passes? These are not a necessity to visit the park. During peak times, they could reward the folks staying in deluxe resorts and using the premium dining plane with access to fast passes. Las Vegas does things like this with their high rollers.

Disney could also put a price premium on fast pass use during peak times. You want access to fast passes during Christmas week, you'll pay an additional fee.

During hurricanes in Florida, the demand for batteries increases tremendously. People who get caught raising prices due to increased demand are arrested and fined for price gouging.

All of these things seem ridiculous....but paying a premium to eat when the park is busy seemed ridiculous a year ago.

When will you get fed up and say enough is enough?

 

[FireDancer]

Every part of a Disney vacation is elective. You are not forced to visit.



So you are willing to pay more to eat at Olive Garden on a Saturday night then you are on a Tuesday night? Around here, many more people dine out on a weekend then duriong the work week. Would you frequent a restaurant and be as forgiving if they decided to charge weekend premiums?

And if we follow this logic....would you be ok with paying a premium for entry into the parks during peak times. Disney could charge $10 extra per head for entry on July 4th.

And let's take it a step further....crowds get huge on Main Street prior to Spectromagic. Disney could charge an extra dollar per bottle for soda. The demand goes up, so the price should go up.

Or what if Disney decided to put a premium on fast passes? These are not a necessity to visit the park. During peak times, they could reward the folks staying in deluxe resorts and using the premium dining plane with access to fast passes. Las Vegas does things like this with their high rollers.

Disney could also put a price premium on fast pass use during peak times. You want access to fast passes during Christmas week, you'll pay an additional fee.

All of these things seem ridiculous....but paying a premium to eat when the park is busy seemed ridiculous a year ago.

When will you get fed up and say enough is enough?

But staying in the same room at a resort during peak season will cost you more and the dinning package is an add-on to a resort room, at least that is how I look at it. It isn't only Disney though. I will be at a hotel in VA Beach over Labor Day and I am paying a lot more for that same room as I would the previous or next weekend.

I didn't say I like it and the fan in me wants it to be as cheap as possible but they are a business and it makes business sense. To be honest I am surprised that park entrance isn't higher during peak season. I wouldn't like that either but I would understand it. If the higher price turned enough people away it would go back down (the premium that is). Their rationale in raising the prices this year is beyond me.

I choose not to go during peak season (or use the dinning plan anyway) so I vote with my dollars. If enough people elect not to use DDP it will go down.

I think Disney needs a lot of work on their pricing in general. I think it is ridiculous to price yourself so high that you have to give your product away. I am only defending the specific practice of a premium during peak season. Ideally, that premium would be on a much lower priced item.

 

[DisneyKevin]

But staying in the same room at a resort during peak season will cost you more and the dinning package is an add-on to a resort room, at least that is how I look at it. It isn't only Disney though. I will be at a hotel in VA Beach over Labor Day and I am paying a lot more for that same room as I would the previous or next weekend.

Paying more for a hotel room or an airline ticket is not unexpected. Ask every person on a flight how much they paid and you might find as many answers as you find people. Things like airline seats and hotel rooms are often sold through wholesalers.

Ask everyone in the Outback how much they paid for their strip steak and I'm guessing you will get the same answer over and over.

The Disney area is different from a beach town or a ski resort. While there are definite peaks and lulls, the Disney area ia always busy.

I would bet big money that there is not a restaurant anywhere near Disney that would survive if they instituted a peak upcharge.

This is not to say that area restaurants dont offer seasonal offering , such as Thanksgiving dinner or New Years Eve, which carry a higher price. They do, but you are getting an entirely different product than your regular offering.

Again, I would have to ask.....how will you feel if Disney institutes peak season upcharges for each and every thing on property?

Are you willing to pay more for a Mickey bar in December that you did in October?

And what about during the Extra Magic Hours? Disney has to pay staff longer, pay extra utilities etc. Are you willing to absorb the cost? Is it ok for Disney to tack an extra buck on chicken fingers during that time?

 

[FireDancer]

Paying more for a hotel room or an airline ticket is not unexpected. Ask every person on a flight how much they paid and you might find as many answers as you find people. Things like airline seats and hotel rooms are often sold through wholesalers.

Ask everyone in the Outback how much they paid for their strip steak and I'm guessing you will get the same answer over and over.

The Disney area is different from a beach town or a ski resort. While there are definite peaks and lulls, the Disney area ia always busy.

I would bet big money that there is not a restaurant anywhere near Disney that would survive if they instituted a peak upcharge.

This is not to say that area restaurants dont offer seasonal offering , such as Thanksgiving dinner or New Years Eve, which carry a higher price. They do, but you are getting an entirely different product than your regular offering.

Again, I would have to ask.....how will you feel if Disney institutes peak season upcharges for each and every thing on property?

Are you willing to pay more for a Mickey bar in December that you did in October?

And what about during the Extra Magic Hours? Disney has to pay staff longer, pay extra utilities etc. Are you willing to absorb the cost? Is it ok for Disney to tack an extra buck on chicken fingers during that time?

Disney gets away with doing things that others don't because they are Disney. No one has to pay the premium, they can just travel at a different time. I wouldn't pay any premium because I don't travel during peak seasons (the VA Beach trip on a holiday is a rarity) for that very reason. I don't want to pay more for a hotel or airfare so I travel at non-standard times. But, if others are willing to pay the premium (which anyone is if they don't cancel their trip because of the premium) than they are justified.

If enough people don't want to pay it bookings will go down and they will have to rethink it. If people complain but still go the charge is not preventing people from going.

You are completely accurate in your analysis of everything you said, no argument from me. To take it a step further though do you think for one second a restaurant not in Disney could serve the quality of food many Disney restaurants do for the same price and survive? I don't think so but because they are in Disney they can charge high prices for mediocre food. I think the same non-standard criteria is applied here. No one else can overcharge for food as easily because they aren't Disney World and no one else can charge a premium at holidays like Disney World because they are who they are.

I don't like it but I understand it.

 

[mainegal]

This has been a very interesting discussion on economics.

About the restaurant meal Tuesday vs. Saturday night.

It could be that the Tuesday night diner does pay less. Coupons often say vaild Monday - Thursday. Drink specials are more likely to be on weeknights. Restaurants know that people "celebrate" getting through the work week by eating on weekends, they know you will be there. They need to entice you in on the weeknights.

This is why I like to eat out on work nights. Often cheaper, and less crowded.

On weekends, I have more time to have fun and cook in my own kitchen.

 

[kbelle8995]

Well I live in a college town. So when the students come back the restaurants and stores get much more busy. Even on weekdays. When it's homecoming just don't even think about leaving your house. So if you go by that model the prices are always high from August to March.

Disney has consistently raised their prices for years. If you think that any of this goes to the cast members think again. Especially if you work at the parks, I did and I made minimum wage. I'm not saying everyone has the same experience. Some make better than others and that's true of every company. I left Disney to find other work

I agree with Pete because every year Disney raises their prices and every year they price more and more people out. I myself found myself in the last two years take less and less trips to Disney. Spend less money in the Disney stores and go off property to find more affordable food choices. I hope others do this too since the only thing Disney understands is money.

Bravo to Pete

 

[darrengs]

Kevin, stop giving Disney so many ideas!

 

[NancyIL]

The increased prices for the dining plan are during February 12 – April 10, 2010 (spring break/Easter), June 4 – August 14, 2010 (summer), and December 17 – 31, 2010 (Christmas/holiday). Resort rates are higher at peak times, and so are DCL cruise prices. If vacation periods are the only time you can visit WDW or cruise, then you will pay more.

There are people who will pay the higher prices without blinking an eye because it's Disney. Others will have had enough and go elsewhere. If demand falls, as it has in 2009 due to the weak economy, Disney will have more promotions to lure guests to visit. However, if you are incensed by the latest price increases - let Disney know, and then do as Pete suggested and boycott the dining plan.

 

[wdwowner]

So you are willing to pay more to eat at Olive Garden on a Saturday night then you are on a Tuesday night? Around here, many more people dine out on a weekend then duriong the work week. Would you frequent a restaurant and be as forgiving if they decided to charge weekend premiums?

Kevin, every restaurant, even Disney, charges a premium for dinner vs lunch. Is there any real reason to change more for dinner vs lunch? No. Everyone, not just WDW does it. Is that fair?
--

In another view of Pete's rant, I am worried the goal of the rants just may backfire on the entire Disney Fan Community. The people who love Disney soooo much and want to share with everyone by creating unoffical podcasts and website have fine line they must walk. They have to entertain without violating trademark issues and playing recordings and music that is not put out for free by Disney. Many have done it and so far has been OK with Disney.

But over the last couple weeks shows that fine line has been crossed. In last weeks Pete said that we should 'burn down the building' (a terrorist act), and now Pete is calling the President of WDW a 'stupid cleaning woman', a 'puppet for Jay Russulo' and 'run her out of town on a rail'. While I agree there are times that Disney should be called out on things, with continuing comments like these Disney will shut down the unofficial podcasts, and we will loose our connection to our 'escape' when we are not there. There are other podcast that some say 'see everything with rose colored glasses on', they are not name calling, telling people to 'just eat off site', and embarrassing the community as a whole.

As I have been told many times by Pete and others on these boards, if you don't like something, don't post. Now is the time to tell everyone, the DIS Unplugged and everyone who say they 'love Disney', if you don't like the things that Disney and WDW are doing and the way they are handling things then don't go to WDW, don't visit the parks or eat there, don't renew your park passes, don't go on Disney cruises, don't visit web sites or listen to podcasts, don't build a business around Disney, and head north to Universal. This should make lines for attractions and dinning much shorter and more enjoyable for those who want to escape from reality for a few days. No one is forcing you to go to WDW or see their movies. I'm sure Universal would love to have a full time podcast and web sites showcasing them.

How's that for a rant. Don't make the joy of getting a little Disney fix each week a distant memory or everyone.

 

[NancyIL]

In another view of Pete's rant, I am worried the goal of the rants just may backfire on the entire Disney Fan Community. The people who love Disney soooo much and want to share with everyone by creating unoffical podcasts and website have fine line they must walk. They have to entertain without violating trademark issues and playing recordings and music that is not put out for free by Disney. Many have done it and so far has been OK with Disney.

But over the last couple weeks shows that fine line has been crossed. In last weeks Pete said that we should 'burn down the building' (a terrorist act), and now Pete is calling the President of WDW a 'stupid cleaning woman', a 'puppet for Jay Russulo' and 'run her out of town on a rail'. While I agree there are times that Disney should be called out on things, with continuing comments like these Disney will shut down the unofficial podcasts, and we will loose our connection to our 'escape' when we are not there. There are other podcast that some say 'see everything with rose colored glasses on', they are not name calling, telling people to 'just eat off site', and embarrassing the community as a whole.

Last week was the 2nd time I listened to a Podcast, and I have to agree with you. Insulting the president of WDW repeatedly could certainly come back to bite Pete in the derriere. If he were ordinary Joe DISer and made those comments, it wouldn't matter. But when your company does a lot of business with WDW and DCL - making the comments he did was unwise.