Perpetuating the dysfunction...another vent about family

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Why is it that if someone is in a relationship with an abuser NOBODY outside the relationship will defend the abuser, but if you are the adult child of an abusive parent you are expected to forgive and forget? Why is that? Who made up that rule?

My father is an alcoholic and he verbally and emotionally abused my mother for more than 30 years. He controlled and manipulated her, told her she was fat, an idiot, lucky to have him, whatever. He moved out a few years ago because she just was not good enough for him. He wanted to find someone better, so he had a string of affairs with some "high quality" women off the internet. All the while he was still calling my mother to come do stuff for him, then screaming at her when he thought she didn't do it fast enough, or to his standards. Sick, sick, sick. He divorced her but still kept her around for slave purposes.

Now he has terminal liver failure. Big surprise. I had very limited contact with him when he was still with my mother, but after he left her I stopped speaking to him. I have worked through my feelings about him and I'm done. I have no desire to see him or speak to him or anything else. DH understands now better than he used to that I want NOTHING to do with my father. At first DH couldn't really get it, but now that we have been married for 14 years and he has seen what goes on he knows better than to judge me for my decision to distance myself. DS never saw much of my father to begin with, so no loss for him.

My problem is my mother and the rest of the extended family who keep telling me I should forgive my father and go see him blah blah blah. What is that? Why can't they respect the fact that it took me a long time to move beyond the hurt he caused? I have done what I needed to do to mend and move forward. Why would I want to jump back in and wallow in the muck? My father is the most self-centered, egotistical, pompous individual I can think of. Time after time he chose to do things that were disrespectful to my mother, to me, to our whole family. He is a disgrace. So why is it that I am being tagged as the horrible one in this scenario? Do people magically become saints when they have a terminal illness? Because he is still mean and controlling, he is just not as competent as he was. It is in no way healthy for me to "forget" the way I was treated growing up, and for his siblings to assume they know what my upbringing was like is laughable. They don't know squat. They never once stayed overnight at our house so how on earth could they possibly know what it was like to live there?

My mother is completely brainwashed - she was systematically deconstructed over more than 3 decades. She heard every day how worthless she was, how she was so lucky to have such a perfect husband because she could never survive on her own. I don't blame her for the way she thinks because she can't help it. I have tried to explain to her that her relationship with him is VERY unhealthy and dysfunctional, but she refuses to change. I am totally opposed to the belief that family should be forgiven for any and all transgressions based solely on the fact that there is a blood relation. Who came up with that crap? If anyone else (a friend, a co-worker, a stranger) treated me that way I can guarantee that NOBODY would be telling me to forgive him and go visit him and take my child to see him and so forth. How did it become acceptable to treat your family members like crap? The way I see it, I am by far the most stable and sane one in this whole situation, but I am being targeted as the enemy. Maybe I fell down a rabbit hole when I wasn't looking.

 

[poohandwendy]

My problem is my mother and the rest of the extended family who keep telling me I should forgive my father and go see him blah blah blah. What is that? Why can't they respect the fact that it took me a long time to move beyond the hurt he caused? I have done what I needed to do to mend and move forward.

I think all you can do is say what you said here, "It took me a long time to move beyond the pain he caused. i have no interest in exposing myself to it again" and leave it at that. They have not lived your life and they cannot expect you to handle things the way they see fit. I am sure there will be hard feelings, but oh well. Not much you can do about that.

I guess you just have to live with the fact that other people see it differently. You have the right to your feelings and people who really understand and care about you will be supportive of that.

Sorry you have gone through so much pain. I am glad that you have come to some resolution and have decided to cut the ties completely. Unfortunately, some people never realize that it is better to do that than to continue banging their heads against a wall, all the while complaining of a headache.

ETA, I just want to add one thing. One thing you can do is respect the fact that other people (like your mom) DO feel the need to forgive and forget. I guess I just think the first step to demanding respect is to give it. You may not understand why they do what they do, but I would just allow them their own feelings too.

 

[Cindyluwho]

You will never be able to make your family see it your way. I'm sorry to say it, but that's the way it is. You are definately doing the right thing for your children and your relationship with your husband. I went through this almost 16 years ago. June 12th is the exact day I broke ties with my mother and step-father. It was the most freeing thing I've ever done and the hardest. Don't ever let anyone tell you how to feel or how to deal with your past issues. You own you! If they don't understand it or want to judge you - it's their loss. You don't need people like that in your life. Big hugs - YOU'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING!!!

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I think you have a very good point. I spend vast amounts of time and energy trying to get my mother to get her life together, but she prefers not. Maybe I would be better off NOT lecturing her. She never listens to me anyway. I suppose she has a right to make bad decisions if she wants to, and I should stop harrassing her about it. She is never going to have that epiphany moment where she realizes I am right, so I should probably stop hoping for it.

 

[lookingforward]

Hugs from me too! I have been a victim advocate for over eight years, working mainly with abused family members. Your mother has chosen to remain in the role that she has had for most of her life. You have chosen to break away from the abuse and make your own way. You are a brave person because the road you are taking is, in many ways, much more difficult. I commend you for having the strength to do it. It is important to remain true to yourself and what you know is best for you. Family pressure can be a powerful thing but self preservation is crucial.

I hope that your mom can get therapy when your dad dies. Battered women (even emotionally) have life long consequences but there is help and hope. My thoughts are with you and your husband during this difficult time. And my prayers are with your mom.

 

[poohandwendy]

I think you have a very good point. I spend vast amounts of time and energy trying to get my mother to get her life together, but she prefers not. Maybe I would be better off NOT lecturing her. She never listens to me anyway. I suppose she has a right to make bad decisions if she wants to, and I should stop harrassing her about it. She is never going to have that epiphany moment where she realizes I am right, so I should probably stop hoping for it.

Exactly. I think it is understandable that you want to try to get her to 'see the light', but she has her own journey too. For whatever reason, she has decided to maintain a relationship with him. No matter what her reasoning is, that is what she is comfortable with. She has the right to do so.

Yes, it is probably very hard to witness. But, if you expect others to respect your decision, i think it's best to start with respecting theirs. Its doesn't mean you have to agree...but backing off is probably the best course. And I bet you will feel better when you focus your energy elsewhere, not waiting for the 'epiphany'. 'Letting go' of trying to fix her can really take a weight off your shoulders. Just like it did when you finally resolved to put him and the toxic life behind you.

Good luck to you, you sound like a very strong, reasonable person.

 

[Cindyluwho]

She is never going to have that epiphany moment where she realizes I am right, so I should probably stop hoping for it.

I remember years ago my therapist asked me "If you could do anything to make your mother understand, what would it be."
I told her that I would put my mother in a chair, tie her down so she couldn't leave, gag her and make her sit there and listen while I told her exactly what my stepfather had done to me.
Then the therapist asked me, "Do you think your mother would listen?"
Of course the answer was/is "NO".
There's nothing we can say or do to change our parents, make them love us or make them be good people. It's not within our power. We can only change the way WE feel about ourselves and WE can be good people. I've devoted my life to being a better person than my mother, in every way possible. A better parent, a more caring person, etc. That's an easy task BTW

 

[poohandwendy]

I just wanted to add, I went through something similar with my mother (totally different circumstances) where we really did not see eye to eye on a HUGE issue.

Basically I just sat her down and said, "You know what? We are never going to agree. Why not save each other some pain and agree not to discuss this issue anymore? I will promise not to try to sway you by arguing it and maybe you can do the same"

It took a while, but each time she brought it up...I reminded her that the topic just had to stay off limits so that we would not have a big blow up. I didn't want to ruin our relationship over something that was never going to be resolved because we had polar opposite opinions about it.

It really did help and we no longer get into it about that issue.

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

Sometimes the reward for doing the right thing is knowing in your heart that you are doing what is right for you, and being at peace with yourself.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

I think your family members believe that you should "make peace" before he dies. That may help some people, but if not you, that's that. I have some idea of what you're going through--my mother is bipolar, has been all my life. Like you, I extricated myself from the family, enough to carry on with my life in a fairly normal way (sadly, my siblings didn't, but that's another story). Well, this summer after one of her psychotic breaks, my mother was diagnosed with dementia. People keep asking me how I can be so calm about the whole thing. But it's not like she was a "real" mother, the kind most people envision when they think of the word. I don't wish her evil, but she can never be a mother in the true sense of the word. She's simply not capable of it. It's sad, but I'm past it at this point.

I wish you well. If you think there might be some benefit to visiting your father as a mature, healthy adult, then by all means, do so--not for him, but for yourself. But if it's not going to be helpful in your life, then don't. Not to keep talking about myself here, but it's kind of like visiting a relative's grave. Some people find comfort from doing this. Personally, I don't--visiting my dad's grave just makes me sad, but it doesn't make me feel connected to him. The "Dad" I love isn't there, you know? I think of him and miss him daily. His grave doesn't do anything for that. That doesn't make others wrong for visiting a loved one's grave and putting flowers, talking, whatever helps them--I would never discourage someone from trying it. But it doesn't help me.

Good luck with this.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Why does your family want YOU to "forgive and forget"?

Your mother knowingly stayed with someone who caused you great harm and continues to do so. She made the choice to be an ally to her abuser which makes her an accomplice to your PAIN.

So, in order for your mother to be "OK" by everyone, you "forgive and forget", you see???

It is not ABOUT YOU, but you accepting what your mother did TO YOU. In turn they accept your mother if you are OK.

Do you know what I mean?

 

[Wishing on a star]

There are some excellent posts here!

Pooh and Wendy is right.
And MysteryMachine brings up a good point.

It may take you some time to come to terms with it all. It may still be too much for you to handle. But, the fact is that your father does not exist in a bubble, all alone. The pain that he has caused you is also very much to blame on your mother as well. Especially for when you were a child. Parents are responsible for the well being of their children.

I do not know why others are telling you to 'forgive and forget'. I personally would not advise that at all, based on your post. It does not sound like your father has turned over any new leaf. You are right. It sounds like he will take his demons with him all the way to the grave. (My FIL did) And, it would only hurt worse to see that in person.

I guess the big thing that I am trying to say is that this is NOT about any others. This is only about you and your father.

If you tell me that your father is the one wanting to make amends and to 'make peace' then that would matter.

Anyone elses opinion really means nothing. Nothing at all.

 

[poohandwendy]

LOL, just one Tylenol Pm or a beer and that would have gone straight over my head.

Just joking, I totally got it and agree.

Why does your family want YOU to "forgive and forget"?

Your mother knowingly stayed with someone who caused you great harm and continues to do so. She made the choice to be an ally to her abuser which makes her an accomplice to your PAIN.

So, in order for your mother to be "OK" by everyone, you "forgive and forget", you see???

It is not ABOUT YOU, but you accepting what your mother did TO YOU. In turn they accept your mother if you are OK.

Do you know what I mean?

 

[paigevz]

Why is it that if someone is in a relationship with an abuser NOBODY outside the relationship will defend the abuser, but if you are the adult child of an abusive parent you are expected to forgive and forget? Why is that? Who made up that rule?

My friend and I just had this EXACT SAME conversation/question on Friday. My point was, if that person asked for my forgiveness, I might grant it, but if they don't..........and they still see that they've done nothing wrong, then why should I forgive? That just tells me they'd do the same today if they were in the same situation, and I just can't tolerate that.

Forget, though? Forget about it. Can never happen.

 

[lisajl]

Op thanks for posting this. Everyone has some excellent answers.
It has helped me! I have things in my past that at this time, I cannot forgive people for, they think it never happened. Well it did and they will not own up to it.
I have nothing to do with them.

I wish you well with your decision. You are doing the right thing.

Lisa

 

[MrsPete]

Having had an alcoholic father, I understand perfectly. I'll say this though: my father was basically absent by choice when I was ages 11-25. He moved out of state to avoid paying child support.

When he was dying, my aunt called and asked me to come see him one last time, and I did. I was glad because it let ME see that he was sick. It let me see him through adult eyes, and that was good FOR ME.

 

[dumboiu]

My father is the most self-centered, egotistical, pompous individual I can think of. Time after time he chose to do things that were disrespectful to my mother, to me, to our whole family. He is a disgrace. So why is it that I am being tagged as the horrible one in this scenario?

Your father has a disease......it is called alcoholism. He didn't *choose* to behave as he has. He is sick. It is too bad he didn't seek help long ago. On the other hand, your mother is a co-dependent and an enabler. She needs to seek help to understand why she continues to allow him treat her like she does. I am sorry you do not feel able to see him before he leaves this earth. Do what you need to do, but make sure, whatever you do, that you will never regret any decision you make now. Once he is gone, you will never be able to go back.

 

[DVC Sadie]

Forgiving would be hard enough but forgetting impossible! The only reason anyone forgives another is not for the other person(in this case your father) but for themselves. For some the cost of not forgiving a person is too high.

It does not mean that what they did was alright it just means that they have no control over any feelings you will have in regards to them ever again. This is my perspective from what I have seen first hand.

 

[LiteBrite]

I was abused by my older brother for most of my childhood and teen years. I spent the early years of my adulthood working on forgiving him, but that was for my own sake, and because I felt led to do so.

However, when I was 26 and he was 29, he committed suicide, and all I can honestly say about that is that while it was extremely traumatic for my family, the rock bottom truth is that it made my life much easier. I was able to grieve for the sweet little boy I idolized before he became mentally ill, but at the same time, I felt enormous relief that I didn't have to deal with the teenager and adult who made my life hell. Also, when my daughter was born a year later, I couldn't help but feel glad that I didn't have to deal with keeping her away from him (which I definitely would have done).

Only you can know what you need to do to handle your emotions concerning what your father did. I'll pray for you.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Thanks for your responses & encouragement.

dumboiu -
My father's drinking is an illness. Screaming at my mother and calling her names and belittling her isn't just the behavior of a drunk, it is the behavior of an abuser. He CHOSE to do plenty of things that hurt us that had little or nothing to do with his drinking. I understand that alcoholism is a disease. After losing his job, his house, his eldest child (me) and his first grandchild (my DS), and everything else you would think that he might want to work hard to get help. Nope. Some of his choices were the product of his disease, but not all.

Interestingly enough, my father's siblings can't stand my mother. Even though she has spent her entire adult life knocking her brains out to make him happy, they don't like her. I guess they think if she was a better wife that he wouldn't be in the situation he is in now? But like I said in the OP, they were NEVER around when I was growing up. They didn't even live in the same STATE! They could write what they know about their brother on the back of a postage stamp and have room left over. Yet his one sister feels perfectly justified in sending me notes telling me that I should forgive him. Easy for her to preach since she has NO CLUE what she is talking about!

Going to see my father wouldn't do anything for me. I'm not happy that he is terminally ill, but I don't have any other feelings about it, either. It is unfortunate but not unexpected. I don't know if he wants to see me or not. My mother said he was asking about me the other night. She thought he was confused and was actually talking about my sister (who does go see him because he might give her money), but he got very agitated and repeated my name. Maybe he wants to see me, maybe he wants me to burn in hell, who knows? I am having a hard enough time remembering "the good things" (as my mother puts it) so I don't think going to see a bloated half-demented hospital patient is going to help matters. As long as I can live with the choices I make I don't see a problem with that.