Perhaps FP+ will make WDW better for more people?

[deakam]

I have been reading the same thing over and over and over again. No choice, longer lines, can't get the ones we wanted. Nothing good except being able to order your lunch 6 weeks before you arrive, personally I don't find that to be a plus but the poster thought it was great. All of this leads me to believe that my next vacation which is being planned for a majority of our time at Universal with a side trip to a Halloween party at Disney is the right way to go.

Maybe Disney will figure this out and fix it. Until then I really don't want to be part of anyone's social experiment thank-you very much.

 

[btk2333]

The attendance numbers don't point to Disney losing people because of FP- though, do they? If anything, don't they point to the opposite?

A family who doesn't know how to tour efficiently is still a family who doesn't know how to tour efficiently with 3 FP+ (or 2, or 1, depending on the park) in hand. Spoon feeding people FP+ does not eliminate crowds and waits.

I have no idea what Disney's internal numbers say- what percentage of visitors to WDW return within 5 years? I honestly have no idea but I'd bet they want it to be higher.

I agree that a family that doesn't know how to tour efficiently won't know how to tour efficiently now but they may feel like they're being more efficient. Because the family didn't suddenly learn how to tour is why I don't really think FP+ makes that much of a difference (at least I haven't noticed much of a difference on my trips)- RD, touring plans and efficient use of FP+ still makes most of us significantly more efficient than the average park guest

 

[morethananyonex]

I have no idea what Disney's internal numbers say- what percentage of visitors to WDW return within 5 years? I honestly have no idea but I'd bet they want it to be higher.

I agree that a family that doesn't know how to tour efficiently won't know how to tour efficiently now but they may feel like they're being more efficient. Because the family didn't suddenly learn how to tour is why I don't really think FP+ makes that much of a difference (at least I haven't noticed much of a difference on my trips)- RD, touring plans and efficient use of FP+ still makes most of us significantly more efficient than the average park guest

The FP+ may get that un-Disney-educated family there because it makes them feel like they're being more efficient, but I question whether they return after that. If they don't know how to use those FP+ they're as useful as not having any at all, leaving them with the same long lines and lack of rides as before.

In order to really change those type of family's perceptions, Disney would need to not only educate them on the program and have them understand (how many of us Disney lovers still don't fully understand?) but they would need to educate them on attraction wait times, busy times of the day and park layout as well. The people who are willing to educate themselves to that extent likely would have been just fine with FP-.

Lastly, Disney has talked about FP+ as a means to lock people into their schedules drawing them away from other Orlando attractions. I haven't heard them mention any loss of guests because of FP- and crowds, and using FP+ as a means to get them back.

 

[agavegirl1]

Okay, I had a thought...

A lot of people on this board are complaining about FP+. I get that people don't like change (who moved my cheese, and all that). Us WDW freaks had it figured out! Now it's all thrown into a tail spin with the loss of Legacy FP's.

Since us WDW planners can no longer get 4-7 FP's a day across the parks, RD to EMH close, perhaps FP+ and the limit of FP's means that more "normal" park guests can perhaps get on a rides (3 at least!) with little wait when normally a personal who is clueless would walk into the park and maybe get 1 FP and then wait like crazy and have a terrible trip (we've all heard from those people).

I know it means we can't go crazy with FP's and never wait in standby with FP+, but maybe FP+ means more people can get a chance to ride rides without waits than in the past. Like sharing the love a little more?

And before you yell at me saying you pay $$$ to go do Disney and all that, know that I get that. But non-planners spend $$$ to go to Disney too and they can have a crappy trip if they didn't realize you have to be an expert to not wait in line.

Just a thought!

I believe this was one of the intentions Disney had with this program. Guests did not understand the old FP system. However, they also realize that they need to "teach" their guest to use the new system and have started with onsite guests, providing personalized booklets, flash drives and messages when they book. Educating offsite guests will be much more difficult so they are trying to "catch them" as they enter the parks. In the end, they expect a higher percentage of guests to use FP+ than used FP-. (I think someone mentioned 70% as opposed to 30%?)

However, I don't believe the is the main focus of MM+ and FP+. That has been stated to be guest management (crowd control) and revenue enhancement (getting a bigger share of the guests wallet by keeping them tied to their parks and resorts).

 

[elyse43230]

One thing I am assuming is that the FP+ kiosk line situation, the app not working in the park, etc. will work itself out (one way or another). I mean, it's pretty new for people to be saying they are not going in like November, based on what's going on in January? Strange.

Also, in all of my June trips, for example, TSMM are GONE by noon. And I am not a RD person (despise this way to tour), so all I was suggesting was maybe FP+ will allow more people to get a chance to ride TSMM, as an example if you can only get one before you get there (staying on sight) and the rest are open to the GP (who will probably NOT have to wait in FP+ kiosks forever).

Isn't there anyone who isn't going to miss running to FP kiosks and they are all in a central location now (or even better, on your smartphone?)

I personally think FP+ has a lot of potential (kinks worked out OF COURSE, let's not freak before it's had a chance to settle) for more people to enjoy Disney.

 

[morethananyonex]

One thing I am assuming is that the FP+ kiosk line situation, the app not working in the park, etc. will work itself out (one way or another). I mean, it's pretty new for people to be saying they are not going in like November, based on what's going on in January? Strange.

Also, in all of my June trips, for example, TSMM are GONE by noon. And I am not a RD person (despise this way to tour), so all I was suggesting was maybe FP+ will allow more people to get a chance to ride TSMM, as an example if you can only get one before you get there (staying on sight) and the rest are open to the GP (who will probably NOT have to wait in FP+ kiosks forever).

Isn't there anyone who isn't going to miss running to FP kiosks and they are all in a central location now (or even better, on your smartphone?)

I personally think FP+ has a lot of potential (kinks worked out OF COURSE, let's not freak before it's had a chance to settle) for more people to enjoy Disney.

Nobody is saying different people won't get a chance to ride TSMM, for example. It's not more people, the ride has the same capacity limits, it's different people. In order for you to get a TSMM FP when you couldn't before, someone who did get one before now cannot. Again, different people not more people.

What people are saying to you, is some of us don't want to get less enjoyment on our vacations for other families to get more. That's why we're annoyed.

 

[DisneyKentucky]

Nobody is saying different people won't get a chance to ride TSMM, for example. It's not more people, the ride has the same capacity limits, it's different people. In order for you to get a TSMM FP when you couldn't before, someone who did get one before now cannot. Again, different people not more people.

What people are saying to you, is some of us don't want to get less enjoyment on our vacations for other families to get more. That's why we're annoyed.

Honestly, I got TSMM on 3 of the days I went to HS. Wasn't hard, booked it 3 days before. Each day I slept in, had a good breakfast and enjoyed time with my family. No rope drops or stressing about "will it be out."

My pleasure and relaxed vacation was worth your annoyance.

 

[deakam]

One thing I am assuming is that the FP+ kiosk line situation, the app not working in the park, etc. will work itself out (one way or another). I mean, it's pretty new for people to be saying they are not going in like November, based on what's going on in January? Strange.

Also, in all of my June trips, for example, TSMM are GONE by noon. And I am not a RD person (despise this way to tour), so all I was suggesting was maybe FP+ will allow more people to get a chance to ride TSMM, as an example if you can only get one before you get there (staying on sight) and the rest are open to the GP (who will probably NOT have to wait in FP+ kiosks forever).

Isn't there anyone who isn't going to miss running to FP kiosks and they are all in a central location now (or even better, on your smartphone?)

I personally think FP+ has a lot of potential (kinks worked out OF COURSE, let's not freak before it's had a chance to settle) for more people to enjoy Disney.

You are still missing the big point here. I and no one else plans a vacation with the thought of making other people's vacation pleasant. Now, I am not going to do anything to upset their vacation but I am also not going to sacrifice my fun, my time, or my money to make certain someone else has a "chance" at my vacation. FP+ does not appear to be workable for me and my family. We will simply try something else. Like I said before, Disney loses my $4000.00 for each trip and instead will have to settle for the $140.00 or so we spend on the Halloween party or the Christmas party.

 

[Shaden]

One thing I am assuming is that the FP+ kiosk line situation, the app not working in the park, etc. will work itself out (one way or another). I mean, it's pretty new for people to be saying they are not going in like November, based on what's going on in January? Strange.

Also, in all of my June trips, for example, TSMM are GONE by noon. And I am not a RD person (despise this way to tour), so all I was suggesting was maybe FP+ will allow more people to get a chance to ride TSMM, as an example if you can only get one before you get there (staying on sight) and the rest are open to the GP (who will probably NOT have to wait in FP+ kiosks forever).

Isn't there anyone who isn't going to miss running to FP kiosks and they are all in a central location now (or even better, on your smartphone?)

I personally think FP+ has a lot of potential (kinks worked out OF COURSE, let's not freak before it's had a chance to settle) for more people to enjoy Disney.

Hello OP, I totally understood what you were meaning in the first point, and while I do understand other peoples own desires for the vacation they have grown to love and that they pay for ... I get the intent you were reading in to the system. I just don't think that's it, and even if it was the intention, I don't think its working out that way at all.

The intent is to make more money off each visitor, its really not about improving the experience, its just about squeezing people a little more. As a Poster in another thread noted, the intent might actually have been to have people generally ride fewer rides, shop/eat more, and all the while sell this as if it was something that is making their experience better.

As for the latter, "once all the kinks are worked out" or that this is a "new system after all" .... that's not going to change. Some of the major issues aren't kinks, they are the natural outcomes of the system. Like lines at FP return stations (because people don't understand the system and each individual takes longer to get through the Mickey Scanner) ...

The "newness" of the system isn't going to go away for all the first time guests, in 5 years the system is still going to be just as "new" to them, and they will still spend 5 - 10 minutes hunched over the FP+ kiosk trying to figure out what to do, and then will get in line when they shouldn't, etc etc....

 

[elyse43230]

What people are saying to you, is some of us don't want to get less enjoyment on our vacations for other families to get more. That's why we're annoyed.

I guess this doesn't bother me. I can work around this system, still get to do a lot of stuff, and have a great trip. Now more families can too, because the FP's are going to more DIFFERENT people, not just the same family getting 5 FP's.

But if all that matters is you and your family, then yeah, be mad and don't go to Disney World. Maybe you'll just have to learn to get a smaller piece of the pie to allow others to have a slice too.

 

[SmallWorld71]

I was explaining the basics of FP+ to DS14 (who is usually my co-planner) today without giving my own opinion.

His quote: "I don't like it. It's like communism. It sounds good in theory."

Just struck me, is all.

 

[robpa]

If I hadn't seen the overall increase in the size of both stand by and fp+ return lines I would agree (somewhat), but they have created lines and demand for things that didn't before and don't need it now (PoTC).

I don't have anything to confirm, but it seemed to me that the numbers of fp+ that are being given out per attraction have increased - thus increasing the fp+ line. Again - I can only speculate that based on what I saw and waited in the last 3 days, but I've never had to line up at the Laughing Place store to get into the BTMRR fast pass return line before... I've never had to line up outside the PoTC (please explain why Pirates needed fp at all???) building or almost to Rafiki's Planet Watch sign to get into Safari's fp line - until this weekend.

They have put fp+ on attractions/shows that don't need it and it has slowed the whole thing down - just so they can say SOMETHING is available as a fp+ option if the big draws are already booked.

Supposedly AP holders are going to get their own bands soon and when that happens - the impact on people booking ahead of time will be noticeable. Only a handful of AP holders have booked ahead so far - when it opens up to FL resident AP holders, in particular, the availability of FP+ online will change significantly.

They need another attraction for whatever tier they are going to eventually put it in.

 

[morethananyonex]

Honestly, I got TSMM on 3 of the days I went to HS. Wasn't hard, booked it 3 days before. Each day I slept in, had a good breakfast and enjoyed time with my family. No rope drops or stressing about "will it be out."

My pleasure and relaxed vacation was worth your annoyance.

And my vacation was worth every single person's annoyance who didn't use FP- and left more for me. Why would any of us enjoy sacrificing our own vacation for a strangers?

Why doesn't this for the good of the whole attitude apply to those threads where someone dares to say an adult shouldn't sit in the front for a parade? Those get ugly fast if someone suggests an adult shouldn't block a child from seeing a parade, never mind if it's an adult who sees it annually. Why doesn't anybody bring up equality when people book multiple desirable ADRs during the trips at the 180 mark? What about the people who don't feel like waking up at the crack of dawn to reserve the right to give Disney $50 a head for dinner?

There are so many situations in Disney that people in the know/people who are willing to put extra effort in benefit from, yet for some reason people get all upset when you had the nerve to ride a headliner twice in one day.

 

[elyse43230]

Honestly, I got TSMM on 3 of the days I went to HS. Wasn't hard, booked it 3 days before. Each day I slept in, had a good breakfast and enjoyed time with my family. No rope drops or stressing about "will it be out."

My pleasure and relaxed vacation was worth your annoyance.

This is awesome to hear! This is exactly why I was excited about FP+, death to the necessity to rope drop. From what I can see, now I only have to do RD if I want to do multiple Tier 1 rides. Otherwise, I can go to the park more than one day to get a FP+ to get another Tier 1 ride.

 

[morethananyonex]

I guess this doesn't bother me. I can work around this system, still get to do a lot of stuff, and have a great trip. Now more families can too, because the FP's are going to more DIFFERENT people, not just the same family getting 5 FP's.

But if all that matters is you and your family, then yeah, be mad and don't go to Disney World. Maybe you'll just have to learn to get a smaller piece of the pie to allow others to have a slice too.

When there are only enough FP for a ride (like TSMM) where they ran out very fast, most families could not get more than 1. Math is simple, there are only so many to give out. More families are not getting them, different families are.

I never said I'm mad and not going to Disney. I'm explaining to you why your outlook doesn't work with the numbers. The families who made good use of FP- are still the ones who are going to make good use of FP+. The families who didn't know what they were doing are still going to be the ones who don't know what they're doing. Holding 3 FP+ is not going to make or break someone's trip. If you don't know how to utilize them properly you're no better off than before.

 

[DisneyKentucky]

You are still missing the big point here. I and no one else plans a vacation with the thought of making other people's vacation pleasant. Now, I am not going to do anything to upset their vacation but I am also not going to sacrifice my fun, my time, or my money to make certain someone else has a "chance" at my vacation. FP+ does not appear to be workable for me and my family. We will simply try something else. Like I said before, Disney loses my $4000.00 for each trip and instead will have to settle for the $140.00 or so we spend on the Halloween party or the Christmas party.

Sounds like your $4,000 come with a ton of strings attached and special treatment, no? If 3 to 4 FP is 'not workable' what is? 8? 7? 6? 5?

Sounds sort of like the Manhatten Moms who hire the handicap to get them spots in line. "This is how the rich see Disney."

 

[morethananyonex]

Sounds like your $4,000 come with a ton of strings attached and special treatment, no? If 3 to 4 FP is 'not workable' what is? 8? 7? 6? 5?

Sounds sort of like the Manhatten Moms who hire the handicap to get them spots in line. "This is how the rich see Disney."

Yes, using a system that was provided by Disney within their rules and not going back when you don't like the changes is TOTALLY the same thing as hiring disabled tour guides to abuse the GAC. I can't believe I didn't see it it before.

 

[DisneyKentucky]

This is awesome to hear! This is exactly why I was excited about FP+, death to the necessity to rope drop. From what I can see, now I only have to do RD if I want to do multiple Tier 1 rides. Otherwise, I can go to the park more than one day to get a FP+ to get another Tier 1 ride.

Exactly. It's a great way to allow people to focus more on what matters and not seeing people yell at each other at rope drop to "hurry up."

 

[SmallWorld71]

Sounds like your $4,000 come with a ton of strings attached and special treatment, no? If 3 to 4 FP is 'not workable' what is? 8? 7? 6? 5?

Sounds sort of like the Manhatten Moms who hire the handicap to get them spots in line. "This is how the rich see Disney."

I honestly don't understand this. Using legacy FP wasn't special treatment, it was common sense. It was available on ANYONE who entered the park and was also willing to use common sense.

 

[DisneyKentucky]

Yes, using a system that was provided by Disney within their rules and not going back when you don't like the changes is TOTALLY the same thing as hiring disabled tour guides to abuse the GAC. I can't believe I didn't see it it before.

Straw man. I am saying it's similar to their sense of entitlement. You are not "Owed" a fast pass. It's like the woman who thought because she just ate at Akershus thought she deserved a front spot for Anna and Elsa meet and greet. The sense of entitlement from the Disney fans is unbearable at times.