People need to stop complaining!

[bumbershoot]

Very valid point from an objective view, DisCatGirl! But sadly, most refuse to see it from that perspective.

It hasn't been valid for almost the whole time DVC has existed.

As a very longtime member I have not liked seeing how the disparity of resale vs. direct pricing has gotten larger and larger.

You get that that's Disney's choice, right? THEY are the ones who have raised the direct prices so so SO high in just a few years. This is THEIR decision-making process. Resale hasn't changed all that much. But direct has.

Based on comments I have seen on Facebook, I think the recent new direct buyers have been hitting DVC hard with complaints about why resale buyers get the same perks as someone probably paying at least double or more. It is a valid question.

So tons of longer-time members don't care at all (and THEY bought at way way lower prices than Direct is now...even I bought WAY lower than what it is now and we only bought in '09), but a few noisy newbies show up and Disney does something.

Sometimes I despise social media.

 

[Sammie]

By that logic, why does someone who bought OKW when it was sold direct get the same perks as someone buying Poly direct? They paid a lot less.

Makes no difference, because neither are the current buyer. If current prospective buyers are going to DVC and asking why should they pay more when others get the same for less. DVC is probably listening.

Also that was market price set by DVC at that time. Those direct buyers were paying "full price".

 

[southerngirl528]

By that logic, why does someone who bought OKW when it was sold direct get the same perks as someone buying Poly direct? They paid a lot less

I'll say it again. The price is pretty relative. My car and house were a LOT less expensive in the early 90's when I bought OKW than they are now. I do agree that DVC seems to be outpacing inflation the last few years, but otherwise there is little difference. Have you looked at what a WDW deluxe hotel cost in the early 90's as opposed to today's prices??? THAT will knock your socks off!!

 

[southerngirl528]

You get that that's Disney's choice, right? THEY are the ones who have raised the direct prices so so SO high in just a few years. This is THEIR decision-making process. Resale hasn't changed all that much. But direct has.

Of COURSE, I understand that DVD controls DVC's prices. And if you read very many of my posts you will know I think their increases have gotten a bit out of hand. JMHO. But I very much disagree about the resale prices. Around 2000, resale prices were only around 16-18% (somewhere right around those numbers) less than direct. It's a LOT more difference than that now.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Anytime Disney pulls away a perk it devalues it's resale value.

Other than initially (more the surprised I think) the last one didn't. What keeps resale high for the most part IMO is because DVC keeps increasing the direct prices, and Disney keeps raising room prices. It still makes DVC resale valuable. The thing I always puzzle over is that this is a timeshare located at the most visited theme park in the world. ANd half the time I think Disney forgets why they have had such a well selling, expensive product and where the value lies. Sorry, but it's nothing to do with the quality of the resorts or service or perks. It's the location. It's all smoke and mirrors that they keep trying to use to coerce people to buy direct and it will work for some but probably not for those who do their due diligence and don't just get caught up in the magic.

My other thing - they really are awful at sales. Yes, I said it. I toured the Poly and not a single person on that tour was even asked if they wanted to speak to a sales person. Not one. Easy going sales pitch doesn't even describe it - the only sales "pitch" was "here's the view, isn't it amazing!". It's nice when you want to see something to not have to fend them off but horrible as a business trying to sell.

 

[southerngirl528]

I toured the Poly and not a single person on that tour was even asked if they wanted to speak to a sales person.

Interesting. I assume you were doing the daily bungalow tours for members that have been held every afternoon since Poly opening? If so, the only reason I can think of why you weren't offered to sit down with a guide for possible add-on (I'm assuming you were doing the member tours since they don't offer tours to non-members unless they are on a booked open house tour), is that the Polynesian is the only sales location I know of where it isn't the ASA's (those folks you see at the DVC kiosks all over, whose job it is to BOOK tours) doing the model tours. I think it is the sales operations folks that are doing those. I know the ones that led the tours I have done at the Poly for members were NOT dressed in the blue shirts like the DVC kiosk CM's. Maybe that is why??

 

[robinb]

A thread complaining about complaining. I love these kinds of threads, LOL.

Sigh. So it isn't worth creating a fuss unless it impacts you directly today? (Note the emphasis on 'today' as this recent change may impact your resale value in the future.)

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
-- Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

Yes, this was the exact the first thing I thought of.

For new buyers waiting to close, I feel your pain.

For others not affected currently by the changes, it's not that there are changes, it's that all of our years of Disney training told us that Disney was different than other companies. All of the recent changes and price increases now teaches us that they are really like all other companies who put profit over people.

Truth is sometimes hard to accept.

Bill

That is exactly it. I've owned DVC for nearly 19 years. My first two contracts were resales and my last two were direct. Disney had been a company that valued their long-time guests especially DVC members. We have been made to feel special and magical as we are all in on the "Best kept Disney secret". Disney seemed to encourage people like us for a long time: join the "club", become an annual passholder, buy a TIW card, stick around and stay a while, make a lifetime of memories year after year. Now, the club has 3 classes of members, annual passes have skyrocketed or have black out dates, the TIW has tripled in price and return guests are no longer made to feel special.

Disney is now all about the "once in a lifetime" guest. If they can sell that guest on the pixie dust of DVC while they are there for their "trip of a lifetime" it's a win-win. If that guest comes back home and buys a resale instead, they are not a new owner ... they are simply a "replacement" owner. Yeah, they may spend money on passes and food but that's a drop in the bucket compared to a "once in a lifetime" guest who goes all out with splurges. I just read on another thread about a poster who says she came into some inheritance money and they are going to WDW for the first time and staying deluxe with the DxDDP because she's not sure when or if they will be able to return. THAT is Disney's sweet spot. Not a DVCer who stretches out a Gold AP to 2-3 trips and cooks in the room.

This change does not effect me directly. I do own direct contracts and my remaining resale was from the 2000's. However, if you are not concerned with this turn of events, you are not paying attention. Disney has the right, though their contracts with all of us, to change perks anytime they please. Two days ago they excluded new resales from membership perks. They could have grandfathered in people with existing contracts purchased under the previous rules, but chose to screw them instead. Back to the Niemoller quote, who's next? All resale buyers? As a resale buyer does it really matter when you bought, you're still a replacement owner. Certain perks for certain resort owners? Disney and DVC have shown us who they are, a company that puts profit over people, and anything can happen.

"Membership is Magic" ... until it's not. Frankly, I don't think that any member is safe from potential changes that strip DVC down to the bare legal minimum.

 

[DisDadDVC]

"Membership is Magic" ... until it's not. Frankly, I don't think that any member is safe from potential changes that strip DVC down to the bare legal minimum.

I think you mean "Membership is Magic (TM)"

 

[Lurch]

I have posted something along the lines of this in one thread, but i feel like this needs to be said in a thread of its own: REALLY?!

So, you are a brand new member whose entire post history consists of complaining about people who are upset with this change? Come on, you can tell us, your husband works for DVC or you are paid to post this tripe?

Kind of silly complaining about people complaining.

I bought resale, but am in the grandfathered class. Should any benefits be taken from me retroactively, I will press the state for an audit of the books to ensure my dues are in no way going to cover any of these "benefits" (the member parties and welcome home events in particular). I sincerely doubt they want to cross that line because it would be very difficult to defend their position should this end up being the case. I think this is why the TOTWL access was not included in the benefits reduction as that would be a bright line violation considering it is part of the property and segregating the expenses would be very difficult. As a former Big 5 auditor ready to retire to Florida I would even volunteer to assist in the audit just for something to do.

 

[southerngirl528]

Disney is now all about the "once in a lifetime" guest.

??? How is a timeshare owner a "once in a lifetime" guest?? I must be missing something. Every single buyer's contract tells what they own and every single contract regardless of how a member purchased reads the same: Members have ownership in a Disney timeshare. Every members has that for the length of their membership. Period. Anyone that "bought" anything else either deluded themselves or just didn't do their homework because perks have never been promised and the contracts clearly state that.

Disney and DVC have shown us who they are, a company that puts profit over people, and anything can happen.

Though I understand the "Disney Magic" thing fully and have enjoyed a lot of that intangible, the truth is that Disney & DVC are BUSINESSES with stockholders. They are in the business to make money and to stay in business. If they do not stay in business then our contracts are worthless.

What I find a little amusing is the complete disregard for the many thousands of members that bought resales over the years and have the same benefits/perks as members that bought direct from DVC. It was DVC that ordained that, not a screaming membership. As many have said, it's always far more traumatic to have something taken away but this is a new policy only affecting resales buyers going forward. With the exception of those that were mid-purchase (and I do feel for those folks), people can choose to be upset enough to simply not buy resale. Or not buy at all.

DVC does not nickel and dime their members like so, so many other TS. Some TS charge to be able to bank. My other TS charges $85 to lock off a 2 bdrm villa for pete's sake. DVC has been awfully generous in my estimation. I hope that those caught in the middle of a purchase when this broke will be able to back out if they so desire and/or be grandfathered in if their contract was signed pre-April 4th. I don't know that that will happen, but for those folks, I hope it does.

 

[lovin'fl]

Of COURSE, I understand that DVD controls DVC's prices. And if you read very many of my posts you will know I think their increases have gotten a bit out of hand. JMHO. But I very much disagree about the resale prices. Around 2000, resale prices were only around 16-18% (somewhere right around those numbers) less than direct. It's a LOT more difference than that now.

But resale prices should be going down as the life of the contract shortens. My BWV expires in 26 years while new Poly has like 48....BWV should be way less. My OKW and HHI too...bought OKW in 2006 for $76 and can sell it for more today yet I used 10 years worth of points (2000 points since it's 200 point contract). I am glad it isn't as I was considering selling it. But I am glad to not be in the market for a 2042 contract today.

 

[DisDadDVC]

So, you are a brand new member whose entire post history consists of complaining about people who are upset with this change? Come on, you can tell us, your husband works for DVC or you are paid to post this tripe?

Kind of silly complaining about people complaining.

I bought resale, but am in the grandfathered class. Should any benefits be taken from me retroactively, I will press the state for an audit of the books to ensure my dues are in no way going to cover any of these "benefits" (the member parties and welcome home events in particular). I sincerely doubt they want to cross that line because it would be very difficult to defend their position should this end up being the case. I think this is why the TOTWL access was not included in the benefits reduction as that would be a bright line violation considering it is part of the property and segregating the expenses would be very difficult. As a former Big 5 auditor ready to retire to Florida I would even volunteer to assist in the audit just for something to do.

4.38% to "Member Activities"......

https://i1.wp.com/*******.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/AKV-2016-Operating-Costs.png?resize=700%2C642&ssl=1

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Interesting. I assume you were doing the daily bungalow tours for members that have been held every afternoon since Poly opening? If so, the only reason I can think of why you weren't offered to sit down with a guide for possible add-on (I'm assuming you were doing the member tours since they don't offer tours to non-members unless they are on a booked open house tour), is that the Polynesian is the only sales location I know of where it isn't the ASA's (those folks you see at the DVC kiosks all over, whose job it is to BOOK tours) doing the model tours. I think it is the sales operations folks that are doing those. I know the ones that led the tours I have done at the Poly for members were NOT dressed in the blue shirts like the DVC kiosk CM's. Maybe that is why??

Yes, it was the daily tour for members and there was one couple that I would have been on like crazy and another that I would have at least approached about sitting down with someone. Me? I don't think I gave any reason for them to ask but it still was a simple opportunity just to check. As I understand it and you seem to confirm they have had guides located at the Poly to do sales?

 

[bwvBound]

??? How is a timeshare owner a "once in a lifetime" guest?? I must be missing something.

I believe robinb was referring to the many recent pricing changes, outside the scope of the 4/4 DVC change, that appear to be aimed at shaking every last penny from the pockets of the "once in a lifetime guest" while discouraging repeat visitors from crossing the park's threshold.

 

[Lurch]

Hmmm, unless there is a corresponding 4.3% discount in annual dues for this new class of DVC owner I don't see how this isn't actionable. Unless those "Activities" are something for people staying at the resort and not for the member events and such.

 

[DisDadDVC]

Hmmm, unless there is a corresponding 4.3% discount in annual dues for this new class of DVC owner I don't see how this isn't actionable. Unless those "Activities" are something for people staying at the resort and not for the member events and such.

"Member Activities - Cost of recreation operations, certain Member activities and events at the Resort. Cost of quarterly Member newsletter, annual Association meetings and printing and postage for Association legal mailings."

 

[southerngirl528]

Yes, it was the daily tour for members and there was one couple that I would have been on like crazy and another that I would have at least approached about sitting down with someone. Me? I don't think I gave any reason for them to ask but it still was a simple opportunity just to check. As I understand it and you seem to confirm they have had guides located at the Poly to do sales?

Thanks for the details, Kat4Disney. Yes, there is a sales office now at the Poly Villas with guides there. It sure would be interesting for those folks that work the DVC kiosks to see your post about this. Because I think if they did, they might start doing the model tours there like they have always seemed to do at the other non-preview center locations. Because a booked tour for them is money in their pocket. I don't imagine those folks just running the place make any extra if they book a tour. I'll bet it would have been VERY different if they did!

 

[southerngirl528]

Hmmm, unless there is a corresponding 4.3% discount in annual dues for this new class of DVC owner I don't see how this isn't actionable. Unless those "Activities" are something for people staying at the resort and not for the member events and such.

Those member activities are indeed the ones put on by Community Hall for members staying at that particular resort. They have everything from movie nights, to S'More Campfires, crafts, contests, etc. It takes some funds to do all these things. Not to mention the sports equipment that can be checked out for use like tennis racquets, etc.

 

[robinb]

??? How is a timeshare owner a "once in a lifetime" guest?? I must be missing something. Every single buyer's contract tells what they own and every single contract regardless of how a member purchased reads the same: Members have ownership in a Disney timeshare. Every members has that for the length of their membership. Period. Anyone that "bought" anything else either deluded themselves or just didn't do their homework because perks have never been promised and the contracts clearly state that.

They are not "once in a lifetime" guest, that's the problem. Disney's focus is now on the "once in a lifetime" guest and DVC is not part of that focus.

Though I understand the "Disney Magic" thing fully and have enjoyed a lot of that intangible, the truth is that Disney & DVC are BUSINESSES with stockholders. They are in the business to make money and to stay in business. If they do not stay in business then our contracts are worthless.

Ho-hum. Same tired argument that comes up whenever someone criticizes how much Disney charges for something. It's a bit stale.

What I find a little amusing is the complete disregard for the many thousands of members that bought resales over the years and have the same benefits/perks as members that bought direct from DVC. It was DVC that ordained that, not a screaming membership. As many have said, it's always far more traumatic to have something taken away but this is a new policy only affecting resales buyers going forward. With the exception of those that were mid-purchase (and I do feel for those folks), people can choose to be upset enough to simply not buy resale. Or not buy at all.

I'm glad you're amused, but one is disregarding that fact that resale owners were given the same ownership perks as people who purchased direct. It doesn't bother me one bit. Heck, when I bought my first OKW contract I received free park passes through 1999. The perk was written into the contact for ownership interest that was sold to me.

My point is that if the BUSINESSES of Disney and DVC put profits and stockholders over club members who buy on the resale market, you and I are not safe from the same type 4-fingered rodential money grab.

 

[southerngirl528]

My point is that if the BUSINESSES of Disney and DVC put profits and stockholders over club members who buy on the resale market, you and I are not safe from the same type 4-fingered rodential money grab.

From a personal perspective I don't like the thought of that, but I am a realist and know that ultimately that is true. What I also believe is true is that Disney is no dummy. Like any savvy business, they well know that grooming customer loyalty is gravy. I do not believe they are foolish enough to not fully consider all impact when making decisions like this most recent one. I don't care for the way it was rolled out. That could have been done better. But as a businesswoman, I totally understand why they did it and truthfully wonder what took them so long.