People ignoring handicap parking signs

[SueM in MN]

At least in this part of California, the spots are pretty much respected. However, there are estimates that about half the handicapped placards are being used by people who don't have a medical need. About half got the placards fraudulently, and the other half are using placards issued to other family members who are not with them....a big chunk...issued to people who are deceased.

im curious to know where you got this information.
I've seen articles like this one from California in May 2015 that gave estimates of up to 30% being used fraudulently.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-laz-reporting-disabled-placard-fraud-20150506-column.html

The article doesn't say where their estimates are from, but appears to include all instances/types of fraudulent use.
If people got/get handicapped parking permits fraudulently, that means they are either forging the physician portion of the application or the physician is in on giving false information (every state has a physician portion of the application).
There are people using a dead relative's permit, but that is one of the reasons the permits expire and need to be renewed. If new/renewal handicapped parking permits are bring issued to dead people, that is another issue and also would involve either forging the physician part or a physician fraudulently filling it out.
This article talks about that kind of fraudulent practice, but doesn't give estimates.
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-pol-placards-20150730-story.html

 

[pampam]

I remember one time parking at the mall. DD had put some flyers on the dash board over her permit. When we got back to the car the ticket ws $325.00. We were able to get the ticket recinded, but it was a hassle. We won't do that again.

 

[fly girl]

I respect the handicap spot.

However, I did use it once at my college apartments. Why would I purposely break the law? My own safety! It was 2:30am and the friend I went out to the club with was no longer with me (she ditched me for a guy). I was alone and all parking spots were taken except one that was over a half a block away and had a creepy guy standing over in that area. I have no clue why he was there, but I circled 3 times in hopes of a spot to open, but at 2:30am it wasn't occurring. I was scared to park by that guy (I'm 5'1" and weighed 100lbs) so I'm an easy target. Yes, I had to park in the handicapped spot. I didn't like doing it, but it made sense.

Next morning, woke up at 8:30am to move my car -- $500 ticket for parking in handicapped spot. Yes, in a private parking lot where to be honest, the three spots were never all occupied.

I fought the ticket. Cop showed up to court, so I had to speak on why I did break the law. Explained situation to judge, and he ruled in my favor. Said I did the wisest thing I could. Cop did state that no one called about the spot he was just patrolling the area (i.e., looking to give out tickets).

To this day I still look at how much the fine is for parking in handicap spot, haven't seen one higher than my $500 ticket.

I've been behind the wheel for 25+ years and that has been the only time I've done that. Again, not proud of it but I did the right thing for myself. It was an unusual situation with extenuating circumstances.

I'm with the others, that space is for people who need it. Very thankful I am not in need and can walk an extra 5 car spaces.

 

[dbrn]

A few years ago, I had a handicapped parking placard. You're not supposed to drive with it in place so it doesn't obstruct your vision, and there were a few times I forgot to hang it. Still needed the spot, though. That may be one reason you sometimes see someone without the placard. Like the other person mentioned, I took a regular spot on good days.

I was in my twenties when I needed it, and I remember parking at the grocery store once and a guy literally waited there for me to park and get out of my car. Even though I hung my placard, he came over and started to yell at me for taking a handicapped space. He stopped when he saw my cane and said, "Oh, thank you for having that.". Yeah, glad I could accommodate you, buddy, with a handicap that met your satisfaction.

Meanwhile, my mother-in-law is one of those people who parks in the handicapped space every time even though my father-in-law isn't with her, and the placard is his. No one has ever questioned her. I keep hoping she'll get caught some day. Drives me crazy.

As for me, my condition has improved, and I no longer need the accommodation. I park in the back of the lot. I find I get into the store a lot quicker that way than the people who are still circling the lot for a spot closer to the door. Cracks me up.

 

[sam_gordon]

Not really, I watched a special on it earlier. The placecard/plates all have unique numbers that tie directly to a drivers license/state ID card. They sit and wait to see if that person comes out.

This doesn't make sense though. When my FiL was alive, he had a handicapped tag (the hang from the mirror kind). So let's say I took his handicapped tag, put it in my car and went to the store (without him). I park in the handicap space and get out. How does anyone watching know that tag isn't for me? Is someone actually comparing the numbers on the tags, looking up the ID, then looking to see if the picture matches me?

 

[Skywalker]

My aunt and uncle abuse this, and it drives me insane. My uncle has a valid reason for the handicapped permit, but the thing is when they go to the store he takes the handicapped spot, and then he sits in the car and waits for her while she shops. They insist he has the right to park there, and yes he does, but to me it kind of defeats the purpose. If you are not even getting out of the car why take up a handicapped space????

One time there was two spaces (street parking) right outside a store. One was handicapped, the other was not. They drove and parked in the handicapped spot. Maybe I am too considerate, but I said why not just park in the regular spot? It is literally just as close, and you'll be leaving the one handicapped spot reserved open for the next person that comes along and needs one. No they said they are entitled to the handicapped spot and parked there.

Then there is my co-worker who shamelessly uses her husband's permit to run all her errands. And even HE hasn't needed it in years.

These people drive me nuts.

 

[RedAngie]

At least in this part of California, the spots are pretty much respected. However, there are estimates that about half the handicapped placards are being used by people who don't have a medical need. About half got the placards fraudulently, and the other half are using placards issued to other family members who are not with them....a big chunk...issued to people who are deceased.

I still have my mother's handicapped hangtag. She died in 2012. The tag actually says "Permanent" on it, although the accompanying paperwork issued with it indicates it expired in 2013.

I'll admit to using it fraudulently on occasion in two situations. One Jersey Shore beach town exempts cars with handicapped plates/hangtags from paying at the street parking meters in standard spaces. The other is at Six Flags. They have a premium close-in parking lot that costs more ($35!!!). The first four or five rows in it are reserved for handicapped. I use it to gain access to this lot, then park in a premium (non-handicapped) spot.

Yeah, I know I shouldn't be doing this.



What is with these giant handicapped spaces at some Walmarts? Does any legitimate situation really need this much space? I think it's bigger than my first apartment.




And the close-in spaces at a relatively new Target has these green-lined markings with something like "Reserved for Carpools and Fuel Efficient Vehicles."



I'm not sure what is meant by "carpool" parking. A car with three or more occupants coming to shop? I suppose some individuals might MEET at the Target and then carpool to work together, but I'd think they'd park in the far reaches of the lot, not up close.

In any event, those markings are pretty much ignored. Full of Hummers or other gas guzzlers.

 

[tvguy]

im curious to know where you got this information.
I've seen articles like this one from California in May 2015 that gave estimates of up to 30% being used fraudulently.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-laz-reporting-disabled-placard-fraud-20150506-column.html

The article doesn't say where their estimates are from, but appears to include all instances/types of fraudulent use.
If people got/get handicapped parking permits fraudulently, that means they are either forging the physician portion of the application or the physician is in on giving false information (every state has a physician portion of the application).
There are people using a dead relative's permit, but that is one of the reasons the permits expire and need to be renewed. If new/renewal handicapped parking permits are bring issued to dead people, that is another issue and also would involve either forging the physician part or a physician fraudulently filling it out.
This article talks about that kind of fraudulent practice, but doesn't give estimates.
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-pol-placards-20150730-story.html

Maybe fraudulent is the wrong word, "unnecessary" might be better. Not hard to find a a Doctor that will sign the form. So some people are going through the legal process with DMV to get a placard they don't have a legitimate need for.
Certainly a guestimate, but that is one stories you see in the paper and on TV a couple times of the year. You go to an area of town where parking is a premium. You look at the cars with placards that park in the same area every day for a few days. You run the car plate and the placard number and the names don't match. You run the names through LEXUS-NEXUS and find out the person on the placard is deceased. You confront the person who either runs, ignores you, or admits that they are abusing the system.

 

[SueM in MN]

I still have my mother's handicapped hangtag. She died in 2012. The tag actually says "Permanent" on it, although the accompanying paperwork issued with it indicates it expired in 2013.

I'll admit to using it fraudulently on occasion in two situations. One Jersey Shore beach town exempts cars with handicapped plates/hangtags from paying at the street parking meters in standard spaces. The other is at Six Flags. They have a premium close-in parking lot that costs more ($35!!!). The first four or five rows in it are reserved for handicapped. I use it to gain access to this lot, then park in a premium (non-handicapped) spot.

Yeah, I know I shouldn't be doing this.



What is with these giant handicapped spaces at some Walmarts? Does any legitimate situation really need this much space? I think it's bigger than my first apartment.

View attachment 133624


And the close-in spaces at a relatively new Target has these green-lined markings with something like "Reserved for Carpools and Fuel Efficient Vehicles."

View attachment 133625

I'm not sure what is meant by "carpool" parking. A car with three or more occupants coming to shop? I suppose some individuals might MEET at the Target and then carpool to work together, but I'd think they'd park in the far reaches of the lot, not up close.

In any event, those markings are pretty much ignored. Full of Hummers or other gas guzzlers.

I will ignore your fraudulent use since you already know it's wrong and do it anyway.

I can respond to a few things:

The word 'Permanent' on the handicapped parking permit refers to the type of disability, not when it expires. My youngest DD is permanently disabled and got her first handicapped parking permit when she was not quite 3 because we needed the extra space next to the parking spot to transfer her out of the van and into her wheelchair.

All handicapped parking permits expire, but those for people with permanent disabilities are valid for a longer time. Parking permits for eople with temporary disabilities usually are valid for 6 months or less. After that, they need to go thru the process of reapplying again. Temporary permits are given out for things like broken legs, etc. -

'Giant spots'.
Yes, they are needed. People with wheelchair ramps or lifts need up to an 8 foot wide space next to their van on the side where the lift or ramp is in order to put the lift or ramp down and drive onto the pavement.
Most of the time, they are occupied by people using cars, who don't need the space. That leaves those of us with ramp vans often not able to park, even when there are handicapped spots left.

 

[SueM in MN]

Maybe fraudulent is the wrong word, "unnecessary" might be better. Not hard to find a a Doctor that will sign the form. So some people are going through the legal process with DMV to get a placard they don't have a legitimate need for.
Certainly a guestimate, but that is one stories you see in the paper and on TV a couple times of the year. You go to an area of town where parking is a premium. You look at the cars with placards that park in the same area every day for a few days. You run the car plate and the placard number and the names don't match. You run the names through LEXUS-NEXUS and find out the person on the placard is deceased. You confront the person who either runs, ignores you, or admits that they are abusing the system.

all the articles I have seen estimated about 30% (still much more than it should be), not the 50% you gave.
So, I wondered where you came up with 50

 

[DeaverTex]

I will ignore your fraudulent use since you already know it's wrong and do it anyway.

I can respond to a few things:

The word 'Permanent' on the handicapped parking permit refers to the type of disability, not when it expires. My youngest DD is permanently disabled and got her first handicapped parking permit when she was not quite 3 because we needed the extra space next to the parking spot to transfer her out of the van and into her wheelchair.

All handicapped parking permits expire, but those for people with permanent disabilities are valid for a longer time. Parking permits for eople with temporary disabilities usually are valid for 6 months or less. After that, they need to go thru the process of reapplying again. Temporary permits are given out for things like broken legs, etc. -

'Giant spots'.
Yes, they are needed. People with wheelchair ramps or lifts need up to an 8 foot wide space next to their van on the side where the lift or ramp is in order to put the lift or ramp down and drive onto the pavement.
Most of the time, they are occupied by people using cars, who don't need the space. That leaves those of us with ramp vans often not able to park, even when there are handicapped spots left.

In response to the bolded section, I believe that the ADA standard is an 8 foot wide parking space, with a "landing pad" of 5 feet for a standard handicap space, and of 8 feet for van accessible spaces. They're big.

 

[SueM in MN]

Here is the guide for handicapped parking spots:
https://adata.org/factsheet/parking

"Dimensions (all dimensions are minimums): Accessible parking spaces are eight (8) feet wide; van-accessible spaces are eleven (11) feet wide. Access aisles for either type of space are five (5) feet wide. These adjacent aisles, which can be shared between two spaces, provide room for individuals to deploy vehicle-mounted wheelchair lifts and/or unload and use mobility devices such as wheelchairs, walkers, etc. An alternate design allows a van-accessible space to be eight (8) feet wide if the adjacent access aisle is also eight (8) feet wide."

 

[tvguy]

all the articles I have seen estimated about 30% (still much more than it should be), not the 50% you gave.
So, I wondered where you came up with 50

We have a task force here to deal with the issue. That was their estimate in interviews we have done. I can't find that stat to show you, but I can find that 10% of the placards they actually checked were fraudulent. So the 50% number doesn't seem unbelievable given how many placards are out there.

http://sacramentopress.com/2011/11/09/task-force-takes-on-disabled-parking-placard-fraud/

 

[SirDuff]

We have a task force here to deal with the issue. That was their estimate in interviews we have done. I can't find that stat to show you, but I can find that 10% of the placards they actually checked were fraudulent. So the 50% number doesn't seem unbelievable given how many placards are out there.

http://sacramentopress.com/2011/11/09/task-force-takes-on-disabled-parking-placard-fraud/

Huh? How do you get from 10% to 50% "given how many placards are out there"? Whether there are 100 or 100,000 or 1,000,000, if the sampling was done properly it would still be an estimated 10%. If the sampling wasn't done properly, the number of placards still doesn't chance the estimated percentage of fraudulent ones (just means that we cannot estimate it).

ETA - Given that they checked only placards about which there was a complaint, I'd argue that the 10% figure is high when considering all placards (ones about which there is a complaint are more likely to be problematic).

 

[SueM in MN]

Huh? How do you get from 10% to 50% "given how many placards are out there"? Whether there are 100 or 100,000 or 1,000,000, if the sampling was done properly it would still be an estimated 10%. If the sampling wasn't done properly, the number of placards still doesn't chance the estimated percentage of fraudulent ones (just means that we cannot estimate it).

ETA - Given that they checked only placards about which there was a complaint, I'd argue that the 10% figure is high when considering all placards (ones about which there is a complaint are more likely to be problematic).

I agree.
This makes sense.
Jumping from an article that says 10% to saying there are 50% is a huge leap and isn't supported by anything.

 

[Callie]

To the person who posted about the late night parking as a young person, I could understand that since there was more than one spot.
In my case, there is literally ONE spot here at the apartment complex in my area. Coming back late at night, I've had to walk 4 buildings down, that is half way around a small lake. I think that is what upsets me, is someone ignoring the sign when its the only spot. Before I was able to hobble, just getting to my car was an impossible workout. If I had to park THAT far away it would have taken me about 20 minutes to get home at least, and I would've been in so much pain.

Here, they have made the permit signs super short, so it doesn't impact seeing ability. It does say to remove it...but I drive with it up since it doesn't block any view.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

My friend's daughter has cerebral palsy and uses a wheelchair. She cannot transfer into the car, so her chair must be loaded into their van with an electric lift. They need to use a handicapped space and have access to the hash-marked area to the right of the space. When our kids were in elementary school, my friend would come everyday to pick up her daughter. Many, many times, some self-entitled parent who didn't feel like parking on the street and walking into the school would park in the hash-marked space. They would leave the handicapped space to the left empty, but would render it basically useless to my friend who needed the space to load her daughter with the lift. Many times, she pulled into the handicapped space, retrieved her daughter from the classroom, then had to wait for the idiot to vacate the space so she could use the lift.

After waiting a few times, she came up with her own solution. If someone was in the hash-marked space, she would pull in across the back of both spaces, blocking the person in. She would get her daughter, then take the time she needed to load her into the car and secure her wheelchair before pulling away. I watched several people run out to their cars, only to have to wait because they had thoughtlessly parked in a space that was truly needed by a handicapped person. No one ever confronted my friend when she blocked them in. They knew they were in the wrong. The good new is that eventually people stopped parking there!

 

[tvguy]

I agree.
This makes sense.
Jumping from an article that says 10% to saying there are 50% is a huge leap and isn't supported by anything.

It was the only article I could find. They have said in interviews that they believe up to 50%. Their estimate, not mine.

 

[tnkr_bell]

What is with these giant handicapped spaces at some Walmarts? Does any legitimate situation really need this much space? I think it's bigger than my first apartment.

View attachment 133624


.

Those spaces are for people who have side entry vans for their wheelchairs or electric scooters. I have a friend who has ALS and she uses a motorized scooter to get around. The side of the van opens and a ramp folds down. Sometimes there is not enough clearance for the ramp and her to get around and up the ramp. She had to call the police one time and have them pull her can out so she could get in because some bozo parked to close.

 

[Domo]

Woe betide you if you park in a disabled space here in the UK... Traffic Wardens are EVERYWHERE, armed with ticket machines, cameras and a sense of authority. Even if you are three inches outside the box of any given space, you WILL get booked!