People certified in CPR..here's a scenerio for you. WWYD?

[Jennasis]

SOP is to continue until the PT is revived or until someone qualified is able to either take over or call it.

That's what I wanted to know. Thanks!

What happens if you're too tired to continue and nobody is there to take over yet? Or what if you aren't tired, but it's been say 1/2 an hour or more and nobody has arrived to help yet? Just curious.

 

[DawnCt1]

If I saw someone drop unconcious to the sidewalk I probably would not unbutton his shirt or check his jewelry for indications of his resuscitation status. No, i would be busy checking his pulse, listening for breathing and starting chest compressions. And I would do it until I was exhausted or another medical person takes over. Considering that a person's chances of living through a "sudden death" experience is very low, and even lower if it occurs outside a hospital setting, I would not be one bit worried about not honoring this man's wishes. The last thing on my mind would be looking for "notes" from the afflicted.

I agree with you!

 

[AshleyW]

That's what I wanted to know. Thanks!

What happens if you're too tired to continue and nobody is there to take over yet? Or what if you aren't tired, but it's been say 1/2 an hour or more and nobody has arrived to help yet? Just curious.

I don't know how it works for EMT's or anything, but in first aid class they tell you not to risk your health for someone else's. If you physically can't continue, you should stop. and secondly, again, I'm not sure how it is for an EMT or whoever, but after 1/2 an hour.. I'd try to hold out until I was tired (although, after 30 minutes of compressions, you WOULD be tired), but if someone's heart isn't beating, there's not much chance of saving them after about 8 minutes. Your brain wouldn't be getting enough oxygen.

 

[CajunDixie]

I got my certification on a dummy, but the first time I had to do it on a real person, I got tired much quicker. First off, you can't always be at an ideal height when it's a real person, I know in the hospital, there's a whole team of people, the bed is at the height of whatever it is, and since the person doing compressions is constantly getting switched out, you can't keep adjusting the height.

I think my CPR class had us going for a certain number of rounds, and then switch (if there are 2 providers). Honestly, maybe it's because I'm not very muscular, I get tired much sooner on a real person, the dummy was much easier. Especially if it' a big person, you're putting in all this energy, I agree that in the end, you're probably doing more harm than good to the responder.

Height isn't really an issue as we put them on the floor. If they aren't too big we transfer to a backboard and an Auto Pulse (does the compressions for us) then onto a cot for transport.

That's what I wanted to know. Thanks!

What happens if you're too tired to continue and nobody is there to take over yet? Or what if you aren't tired, but it's been say 1/2 an hour or more and nobody has arrived to help yet? Just curious.

One person alone is not going to be able to do effective compressions for a 1/2 hour. Seriously you need to try this yourself to understand. And as monkey stated above, a real person is harder to do compressions on than a dummy. Not to mention them going without oxygen for a half hour.......

 

[Jennasis]

Height isn't really an issue as we put them on the floor. If they aren't too big we transfer to a backboard and an Auto Pulse (does the compressions for us) then onto a cot for transport.



One person alone is not going to be able to do effective compressions for a 1/2 hour. Seriously you need to try this yourself to understand. And as monkey stated above, a real person is harder to do compressions on than a dummy. Not to mention them going without oxygen for a half hour.......

No no, I get you. I really do. I guess what I'm asking, is that are you required (by law or something) to CONTINUE doing CPR once you start until the patient revives or somebody comes along to help? I know it sounds silly, but I'm just wondering what the liability is for the good samaritan.

I just picture some grieving family member sueing because the good samaritan stopped CPR after 9 minutes because they were too tired to continue, or stopping after 15 minutes because they figured the person really was dead/unrevivable.

 

[AshleyW]

No no, I get you. I really do. I guess what I'm asking, is that are you required (by law or something) to CONTINUE doing CPR once you start until the patient revives or somebody comes along to help? I know it sounds silly, but I'm just wondering what the liability is for the good samaritan.

I just picture some grieving family member sueing because the good samaritan stopped CPR after 9 minutes because they were too tired to continue, or stopping after 15 minutes because they figured the person really was dead/unrevivable.

Nope, you don't have to worry about that. If you're a good samaritan and do CPR on someone for 10 minutes and then have to stop, you can't be held liable thanks to the Good Samaritan laws in the US. I know some jurisdictions say that the Good Samaritan laws only apply to people who are trained in CPR, first aid, etc. assuming they act within the scope of their training.. but I think for the most part it's just to protect normal everyday people who stop and help someone who's sick/injured.

 

[CajunDixie]

No no, I get you. I really do. I guess what I'm asking, is that are you required (by law or something) to CONTINUE doing CPR once you start until the patient revives or somebody comes along to help? I know it sounds silly, but I'm just wondering what the liability is for the good samaritan.

I just picture some grieving family member sueing because the good samaritan stopped CPR after 9 minutes because they were too tired to continue, or stopping after 15 minutes because they figured the person really was dead/unrevivable.

Actually just because I'm an EMT doesn't mean I have to even stop. I have no legal obligation to do anything. But if I do stop and start CPR and cannot continue until other help arrives or until they are revived then I can stop CPR.

 

[Jennasis]

Nope, you don't have to worry about that. If you're a good samaritan and do CPR on someone for 10 minutes and then have to stop, you can't be held liable thanks to the Good Samaritan laws in the US. I know some jurisdictions say that the Good Samaritan laws only apply to people who are trained in CPR, first aid, etc. assuming they act within the scope of their training.. but I think for the most part it's just to protect normal everyday people who stop and help someone who's sick/injured.

Thanks! This thread reminds me that I really need to get my CPR cert.

 

[lsyorke]

5 reasons to stop CPR
Don't Stop CPR unless:
1 - Victim has obvious signs of life.
2- EMS arrives.
3- Scene becomes unsafe.
4- To use an AED
5- You are too exhausted to continue


Just taught the course last week!

 

[princess momma]

Is that SOP for cpr (what is taught in CPR courses)? I can think of a few scenarios (some very unlikely, but still) where using those criteria above, you'd be doing CPR for a long long time....perhaps indefinitely. There hasto be some point at which time, continuing the CPR is not advisable or pointless?

I'm going by the OP's scenario. If I see the man code on the street I'll call for help, start CPR, and hope like hell the paramedics get there quickly to debrillate. If I couldn't physically continue then I would have to stop. Performing CPR is exhausting and not really all that effective.

I think the AHA has stopped teaching rescue breathing to non healthcare providers in my area. They're now teaching continuous chest compressions (CCR). I've heard the numbers are just as good for that, as for CPR.

 

[tasha99]

I'm going by the OP's scenario. If I see the man code on the street I'll call for help, start CPR, and hope like hell the paramedics get there quickly to debrillate. If I couldn't physically continue then I would have to stop. Performing CPR is exhausting and not really all that effective.

I think the AHA has stopped teaching rescue breathing to non healthcare providers in my area. They're now teaching continuous chest compressions (CCR). I've heard the numbers are just as good for that, as for CPR.

Yeah, I just took CPR a month ago. No more rescue breathing, and it's 30 compressions now instead of 15.

 

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

If (for some strange reason) I did see a tat on a persons chest while giving CPR, and it was the letters "DNR" I would assume that was his initials or something of meaning to that person.

A DNR request is usually in a hospital setting on paitents that have a terminal situation. (and the DNR, IN THAT SITUATION, complies with the laws concerning such a thing)

First responders, as others have posted, would continue CPR and/or rescue breathing until the previous mentioned conditions were met.

(And I have given CPR twice in realy life. both DOA.)

 

[manning]

I would do cpr until help arrived. I believe the DNR decision should be made once he is at the hospital where he can be evaluated to determine if he would have any chance of a good quality of life.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

Thanks for all your replies. So basically, an otherwise healthy person could not have a DNR? I am sure if he went to his Dr. he may be commited for psych evaluation.

I just think that some people have been dealt a crappy hand in life, and when you reach 60 years old, and things haven't gotten better, but you are not suicidal, you just start thinking that dropping dead would be a blessing. (That is how he feels). Kind of like "Oh, it's my turn? OK, I'm ready and willing. Good bye cruel world"

So, if you have that attitude, and you have lived your life, raised your kids, why couldn't you have a legal DNR for thinks like CPR? You shouldn't have to have a terminal illness.

I am not saying I want my friend to die, but I understand what he is saying. He doesn't want to be "brought back" if he is on his way out the door.

 

[DawnCt1]

How about a tattoo that says NO POST right across my chest in big block letters ! After I saw my first autopsy, it crossed my mind. Not that it would do any good but it would give the diener something to think about.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

How about a tattoo that says NO POST right across my chest in big block letters ! After I saw my first autopsy, it crossed my mind. Not that it would do any good but it would give the diener something to think about.

What does NO POST mean?

 

[NHdisneylover]

If (for some strange reason) I did see a tat on a persons chest while giving CPR, and it was the letters "DNR" I would assume that was his initials or something of meaning to that person.

That was what I was going to say. IF I saw it (unlikelywhy would I take his shirt off?), I doubt in teh heat of the moment and out of the context of a thread like this it would occure to me that it might mean Do Not Ressucitate. I would think it was initials or a gang thing or something if I thought about it at all.

OP--I can understand your friends' point of view, but I think the reason you can not have such an order outside of a medical facility is because it would be so darn hard for lay people (or even professionals not associated in any way with your friend) to verify if such an order if valid. Additionally, many lives could be lost if every time anyone went to perfrom CPR or other life saving actions s/he had to first spend time looking for a DNR order.

 

[Jennasis]

How about "Dear Emblamer, please try CPR one more time"?

Anyhoo..OP a healthy person CAN have a DNR (DH and MIL have one, and I have an order that says do not keep me on life supprt if I have no chance at recovery). The order is filed at our Doctor's office and with our lawyer.

 

[DawnCt1]

What does NO POST mean?

No post mortum exam. (no autopsy)

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I have a friend who would not want to be resuscitated if he drops dead. He is 60 years old, but has had enough of this life. If he drops of a heart attack, he wants that to be it. He doesn't want someone bringing him back. He thinks if he has DNR tattooed on his chest, that will work. Would it? If not, are there medical bracelets that have DNR on them, for an otherwise healthy person?

Sorry, I know this was a serious question.

But it made me LOL. Thanks, I needed a little chuckle this morning.

No, it wouldn't mean a thing to me as it is not a legal document; I would do my best to resuscitate him.

DNR orders sometimes get murky even in the hospital. Rule of thumb is, when in doubt, resuscitate. I've seen it go the other way, and it was tragic for all involved. Bottom line is that if a DNR/DNI is in place, it needs to be crystal clear by and to all parties involved.