Pennsylvania governor orders flags to be flown at half staff - agree or disagree

[declansdad]

Joe- he was told something, reported it to his boss and the head of the police department. Took the correct action but did not follow up enough. We do not know what he was told by Curley and Schultz in regard to the investigation.

You seem to be missing a small point here. Schultz was a senior VP with oversight of the police department. The head of the police department is the chief of police, not Schultz.

 

[Tozzie]

If he said "I reported it to the guy in charge of the Police Department and he said he would take care of it?

I would have enough perspective to put the bad people in order
Assuming the charges are proven:

Sandusky- a slow painful death is too good for this scumbag

McQueary- a 26 year old man who witnessed this and DID NOTHING? Complete scum

Curley and Schultz- the incident was reported to them, one of them was the athletic director so he was Sandusky's boss the other in charge of the Police
The real question here is what did McQueary tell them? If he told them what happened in detail OR if they did not ask the question then they can join the burn in hell crowd. What he told them though is NOT an established fact

Joe- he was told something, reported it to his boss and the head of the police department. Took the correct action but did not follow up enough. We do not know what he was told by Curley and Schultz in regard to the investigation.

Schultz was not the pollice he was a senior vice president who oversees the police. He was not then nor now the police.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Paterno said himself he knew what was going on was with young boys and sexual in nature.

As a "father figure" "JoePa" owed it to those kids to follow up.

As a man, a coach, a teacher if you will, he was honor bound to do that.

He chose not too and helped to ruin the lives of how many children?

That kind of cowardness deserves no honorable recognition.

Fail. Epic.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

You seem to be missing a small point here. Schultz was a senior VP with oversight of the police department. The head of the police department is the chief of police, not Schultz.

Schultz was not the pollice he was a senior vice president who oversees the police. He was not then nor now the police.

Check out the University Police org chart:
http://www.police.psu.edu/orgchart/Police Org Chart 1_2012.pdf

See how the VP of the University is at the top? What you would consider the "chief" is Tyrone Parham on the left. He's not really in charge of everything, look how the various managers and directors are arranged. It's not a conventional "strong chief" arrangement at all. Notice the "crime prevention officer" does not fall under the chief. We can dissect it endlessly but it's not at all hard to see how Joe would have considered what he did reporting it

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

No one denies he reported it, what he didn't do was follow thru. Too much trouble to make sure other children weren't being assaulted. Nice.

 

[JessicaR]

Check out the University Police org chart:
http://www.police.psu.edu/orgchart/Police Org Chart 1_2012.pdf

See how the VP of the University is at the top? What you would consider the "chief" is Tyrone Parham on the left. He's not really in charge of everything, look how the various managers and directors are arranged. It's not a conventional "strong chief" arrangement at all. Notice the "crime prevention officer" does not fall under the chief. We can dissect it endlessly but it's not at all hard to see how Joe would have considered what he did reporting it

I have one question. YOU are Joe, did YOU do enough? Would you be satisfied?

 

[declansdad]

Check out the University Police org chart:
http://www.police.psu.edu/orgchart/Police Org Chart 1_2012.pdf

See how the VP of the University is at the top? What you would consider the "chief" is Tyrone Parham on the left. He's not really in charge of everything, look how the various managers and directors are arranged. It's not a conventional "strong chief" arrangement at all. Notice the "crime prevention officer" does not fall under the chief. We can dissect it endlessly but it's not at all hard to see how Joe would have considered what he did reporting it

Nice chart but Gary Schultz was the senior vp for finance and business not the assistant vp for police and public safety.

 

[sparklynails23]

If lowering the flag to half staff is questioned, is this ok?

"President Barack Obama spoke with the Paterno family on Monday and said he would keep them in his prayers."

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

If lowering the flag to half staff is questioned, is this ok?

"President Barack Obama spoke with the Paterno family on Monday and said he would keep them in his prayers."

Why wouldn't it be? He's a person expressing condolences to the family.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Nice chart but Gary Schultz was the senior vp for finance and business not the assistant vp for police and public safety.

Right which make him the direct Boss of the assistant VP
Or- the man in charge

 

[Wall-E1]

You seem to be missing a small point here. Schultz was a senior VP with oversight of the police department. The head of the police department is the chief of police, not Schultz.

Schultz was not the pollice he was a senior vice president who oversees the police. He was not then nor now the police.

Right!

It seems to me that Paterno did everything possible to NOT involve actual law enforcement. He was "smart" to realize that Gary Shultz, although in charge of oversight, was not a law enforcement individual. Gary Shultz had no background or training in law enforcement. The campus police department was merely one of eight departments that he had oversight of, due to his vice president status.

I think the natural reaction to hearing something like this would be to immediately contact the police. I know I would be immediately contacting the proper authorities, whether it be a weekend or not. I would not wait a few days, and then call up my superior and say that we have a problem.

Check out the University Police org chart:
http://www.police.psu.edu/orgchart/Police Org Chart 1_2012.pdf

If I were in Joe Paterno's place(and had this chart), I would look over this chart and find Sergeant Stephanie Brooks... the one in charge of criminal investigations... the one with law enforcement training... the one who would know the proper steps to take after receiving the information. It just seems more logical to me that one should report a suspected criminal act to a criminal investigator.

 

[declansdad]

Right which make him the direct Boss of the assistant VP
Or- the man in charge

But not a cop or a person with police powers.

 

[Tozzie]

Check out the University Police org chart:
http://www.police.psu.edu/orgchart/Police Org Chart 1_2012.pdf

See how the VP of the University is at the top? What you would consider the "chief" is Tyrone Parham on the left. He's not really in charge of everything, look how the various managers and directors are arranged. It's not a conventional "strong chief" arrangement at all. Notice the "crime prevention officer" does not fall under the chief. We can dissect it endlessly but it's not at all hard to see how Joe would have considered what he did reporting it

I did look at the chart, that is the chart in effect now, not in 2002, Shultz was the vice president for Finance and Buisness and the Police fell under his umbrella because the shcooll paid their budget not becuase he was so called "in charge" of them. He was a civilian appointed to the university, he was not a sworn law enforceement officer, he wasn't then nor now the police.

Lets say there was a hostage siituation on campus and a call had to be made as to weather to shoot the hostage taker or not, do you in all honesty believe the VP would get to make that call? No he wouldn't, he oversaw the department but was not the police.

Paterno was not a great man but he wasn't a stupid man either, yet they all played dumb because they were protecting their precious University and Football program instead of the innocent children they should have been protecting

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Right!

It seems to me that Paterno did everything possible to NOT involve actual law enforcement. He was "smart" to realize that Gary Shultz, although in charge of oversight, was not a law enforcement individual. Gary Shultz had no background or training in law enforcement. The campus police department was merely one of eight departments that he had oversight of, due to his vice president status.

I think the natural reaction to hearing something like this would be to immediately contact the police. I know I would be immediately contacting the proper authorities, whether it be a weekend or not. I would not wait a few days, and then call up my superior and say that we have a problem.


If I were in Joe Paterno's place(and had this chart), I would look over this chart and find Sergeant Stephanie Brooks... the one in charge of criminal investigations... the one with law enforcement training... the one who would know the proper steps to take after receiving the information. It just seems more logical to me that one should report a suspected criminal act to a criminal investigator.

Or Maybe he just believed the guy in charge was in charge and would know the correct thing to do! Maybe the guy in charge even told him that he would! It's really easy to overthink this stuff with 20/20 hindsight

I did look at the chart, that is the chart in effect now, not in 2002, Shultz was the vice president for Finance and Buisness and the Police fell under his umbrella because the shcooll paid their budget not becuase he was so called "in charge" of them. He was a civilian appointed to the university, he was not a sworn law enforceement officer, he wasn't then nor now the police.

But he was their boss and they reported to him. The "chief" (notice there is nobody with that title) was not really "in charge". He may have been the highest ranking official with arrest powers but he had bosses.

 

[declansdad]

Or Maybe he just believed the guy in charge was in charge and would know the correct thing to do! Maybe the guy in charge even told him that he would! It's really easy to overthink this stuff with 20/20 hindsight



But he was their boss and they reported to him. The "chief" (notice there is nobody with that title) was not really "in charge". He may have been the highest ranking official with arrest powers but he had bosses.

Come on! Paterno WAS Penn State! You don't think he knew he was who?

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Come on! Paterno WAS Penn State! You don't think he knew he was who?

Yes and I think he knew Schultz was in charge of the Police and it was true!!!

Take a look at this article
http://onwardstate.com/2011/11/17/university-police-real-gun-plastic-badge/

The UP police are run by the administration and Paterno KNEW that so reporting it to Schultz is reporting it to the police in his mind

 

[Wadecool]

Paterno said himself he knew what was going on was with young boys and sexual in nature.

As a "father figure" "JoePa" owed it to those kids to follow up.

As a man, a coach, a teacher if you will, he was honor bound to do that.

He chose not too and helped to ruin the lives of how many children?

That kind of cowardness deserves no honorable recognition.

Fail. Epic.

The defense of Paterno's actions, or inaction is confounding, but yet here they are...

 

[Wall-E1]

Or Maybe he just believed the guy in charge was in charge and would know the correct thing to do! Maybe the guy in charge even told him that he would! It's really easy to overthink this stuff with 20/20 hindsight.

I'm guessing that Paterno knew that Gary Schultz was not an actual law enforcement individual. He probably knew that Gary Schultz did not work out of the campus police station. It is easy to over think stuff, and rationalizing that Paterno went to Schultz because he was in charge(with no law enforcement training), and would know the correct thing to do seems like over thinking things to me. The police are on call 24/7. There was no reason for Joe to wait until after the weekend so as not to bother anyone. The actual police(if they had been tipped off) would have been happy to take a report and begin an investigation immediately... even on a Saturday. There's a reason Joe waited several days, and then chose not to report this to an actual police officer or abuse investigator.

If you were in Paterno's position, would you immediately contact the police/child services, or would you wait until after the weekend, and then figure out who was the highest level administrator in charge of oversight at the local police department?

 

[WebmasterAlex]

I'm guessing that Paterno knew that Gary Schultz was not an actual law enforcement individual. He probably knew that Gary Schultz did not work out of the campus police station. It is easy to over think stuff, and rationalizing that Paterno went to Schultz because he was in charge(with no law enforcement training), and would know the correct thing to do seems like over thinking things to me. The police are on call 24/7. There was no reason for Joe to wait until after the weekend so as not to bother anyone. The actual police(if they had been tipped off) would have been happy to take a report and begin an investigation immediately... even on a Saturday. There's a reason Joe waited several days, and then chose not to report this to an actual police officer or abuse investigator.

If you were in Paterno's position, would you immediately contact the police/child services, or would you wait until after the weekend, and then figure out who was the highest level administrator in charge of oversight at the local police department?

You said the magic word "I'm guessing"! I could answer all of this if I knew a few things
What did McQueary say to Joe
What did Joe say to the administration
What did the Administration say back to Joe
If we knew that it would all be really clear but we don't.
Hopefully after the trials we know more

 

[Wadecool]

You said the magic word "I'm guessing"! I could answer all of this if I knew a few things
What did McQueary say to Joe
What did Joe say to the administration
What did the Administration say back to Joe
If we knew that it would all be really clear but we don't.
Hopefully after the trials we know more

You forgot to ask: "What did Joe say in his grand jury testimony?"

http://sportsbybrooks.com/transcript-joe-paterno-grand-jury-testimony-29933

That testimony seems to go a long way toward answering your some of your questions. Of course, the answers may not be to your liking...