Park Overcrowding, is it Disney’s Fault

[juuuliebeth]

Same here. I took a short trip to WDW in January with three days in the parks. I hate some of the changes (especially park reservations), but overall I had a good time and was happy to be there even though I'm not yet sure when I'll go back.

That's so funny. I took a short trip in January with just three days in the parks and it was the first time I recognized some of the cutbacks. There are plenty of things to be angry about with Disney. I'm just not sure crowds are one of them. Mousekeeping cutbacks? Sure. Loss of Magical Express? Yes. Park Reservations? Absolutely.

Crowds come with the territory. And as long as Disney keeps putting out good content - Galaxy's Edge, Guardians, etc. - we're going to get crowds. (Have they screwed up any of the new attractions recently? I can't think of anything that has disappointed except Enchantment. I'm a Happily Ever After fan.)

 

[Jrb1979]

They could also just go back to increasing park hours which was typical in the past. I've found nothing spreads out crowds better than an increase in park hours.

Why do that when they can charge guests to visit the parks at night with parties?

As far as this thread goes it's partly Disney's fault for not adding in more attractions to deal with the crowds. I will also say IMO a lot of has to do with that your average guest doesn't know anything else. My guess is your average guest knows Disney, Universal, SeaWorld and maybe their local park.

 

[Jrb1979]

That's so funny. I took a short trip in January with just three days in the parks and it was the first time I recognized some of the cutbacks. There are plenty of things to be angry about with Disney. I'm just not sure crowds are one of them. Mousekeeping cutbacks? Sure. Loss of Magical Express? Yes. Park Reservations? Absolutely.

Crowds come with the territory. And as long as Disney keeps putting out good content - Galaxy's Edge, Guardians, etc. - we're going to get crowds. (Have they screwed up any of the new attractions recently? I can't think of anything that has disappointed except Enchantment. I'm a Happily Ever After fan.)

I think Epic Universe will change a lot of things. IMO Nintendo is going to a huge draw and see it having an affect crowd wise when I opens. Once it does Universal becomes a 4-5 day visit instead of the 2-3 day visit it is now

 

[lovethesun12]

Why do that when they can charge guests to visit the parks at night with parties?

As far as this thread goes it's partly Disney's fault for not adding in more attractions to deal with the crowds. I will also say IMO a lot of has to do with that your average guest doesn't know anything else. My guess is your average guest knows Disney, Universal, SeaWorld and maybe their local park.

Agree. I'm sure that profit offsets any guests who cancel/delay their visit because of crowds.

 

[manakin]

Just remember this about attractions and rides:
disney put a really high bar in quality for attractions (almost al the new rides are hits). And That is what makes Disney parks unique. And that mean, long time in thinking, conceptualizing and then building. starting to build new attractions just to be fillers for crowds, would mean lower quality, and everyone would start complaining about a ride being underwelming etc. they simply cannot go faster.
universal can. But, they have a really different level in my opinion. They can build a super fast coaster, put just some thematization into the queue and they are done. And disney does not do that.

 

[Jrb1979]

Just remember this about attractions and rides:
disney put a really high bar in quality for attractions (almost al the new rides are hits). And That is what makes Disney parks unique. And that mean, long time in thinking, conceptualizing and then building. starting to build new attractions just to be fillers for crowds, would mean lower quality, and everyone would start complaining about a ride being underwelming etc. they simply cannot go faster.
universal can. But, they have a really different level in my opinion. They can build a super fast coaster, put just some thematization into the queue and they are done. And disney does not do that.

Quality is there for theming wise but a lot of them lack in thrills of any kind. Personally I wish there was a better balance.

 

[manakin]

Quality is there for theming wise but a lot of them lack in thrills of any kind. Personally I wish there was a better balance.

I can understand. But look at the GotG coaster: brilliant ride, yet so many people talk of dizziness. While at universal no one talks about how much velocicoaster is so much more intense. I’m sure that building new rides in disneyworld is much more complicated than it seems....

 

[parasail_of_congress]

Just remember this about attractions and rides:
disney put a really high bar in quality for attractions (almost al the new rides are hits). And That is what makes Disney parks unique. And that mean, long time in thinking, conceptualizing and then building. starting to build new attractions just to be fillers for crowds, would mean lower quality, and everyone would start complaining about a ride being underwelming etc. they simply cannot go faster.
universal can. But, they have a really different level in my opinion. They can build a super fast coaster, put just some thematization into the queue and they are done. And disney does not do that.

WDW has a few filler rides that are somewhat relatively new - at the Magic Kingdom alone, Under the Sea, Barnstormer, Magic Carpets and arguably the second Dumbo ride come to mind. I'm not sure people would complain about them being underwhelming just because they exist. If you throw in character visits, which are even more underwhelming attractions that are grouped with actual rides, I see Disney doing what they should be doing at creating enough experiences to keep the lines moving. It's not really sustainable to have a park with only new "hit" rides.

But they really don't have much incentive yet to change WDW because some people are visiting despite the issues. Disney can focus on building new lands in other parks to increase attenance and then always come back to do something in Orlando whenever they actually need to do it.

 

[jade1]

I can understand. But look at the GotG coaster: brilliant ride, yet so many people talk of dizziness. While at universal no one talks about how much velocicoaster is so much more intense. I’m sure that building new rides in disneyworld is much more complicated than it seems....

A couple in our group can not do Forbidden Journey at IOA .Even though very slow, the twisting you upside down multiple times takes its toll.

They did handle GotG OK, but it was close.

Oh and only a few can go back on Velocicoaster, good Lord.

 

[Minniesgal]

I agree, we went this July and last July and both my wife and thought the crowd levels were wayyyy worse last July. This July seemed more normal like years past.

We are just back and haven’t been in July since 2013. Parks didn’t seem massively busy to us by historical standards

 

[ScottOKW2K]

They could also just go back to increasing park hours which was typical in the past. I've found nothing spreads out crowds better than an increase in park hours.

There are a few caveats to increasing park hours. You have to have the staffing to support those additional hours and that's going to across the whole gamut - front line, food services, transportation, etc. You are also going to have less maintenance time available for support activities. People already complain about breakdowns on top attractions - extend the hours and the maintenance crews have less time for their activities.

It's a balancing act and each situation / ride / event / store / etc brings it's own requirements for safe and effective operation. Disney has been doing this for decades and they know in great detail what it takes for each venue or operation to run safely, effectively and profitably.

 

[nicksinger8]

Their fault for making the product too desirable.

View attachment 691917

Ha ha yes! It is an odd thing to say, but it is bad business if you can't keep up with demand. A business in the UK, Pret, promised unlimited drinks for £25 a week or something. But too many people ordered the really fancy expensive drinks. They were making a loss so they had to cut those fancy drinks out. Terrible publicity and business. Disney have done that with their e-ticket elite expansions - especially DHS. Drawn ridiculous numbers to the parks, but without increasing ride capacity sufficiently. It has made the experience less good. It might bite long-term. I mean with Galaxy's edge - they ought to have built 3 rides or made the millenium falcon ride a Pirates people eater. They need another people eater elsewhere too at DHS. If they could increase capacity by 4,000-5,000 an hour it'd be fine.

 

[mom2rtk]

It's simple. Disney can reduce attendance by doing one of two things - drastically raising prices, or drastically limiting the number of slots available for people to book the park.

No. It's not that black and white. They can:

1) add park hours to spread people out (they used to be much better about this)
2) add more staff to better handle the crowds (opening a new line in a store or restaurant cuts waits substantially)
3) offer more entertainment to eat people (remember doing rides with short waits during the night parade)
4) add more attractions to occupy the people who are there (at least 3 of the parks need net new capacity, and I could even make an argument for the 4th)

Making it so black and white just gives Disney a pass, and I really don't get it.

 

[Ermise]

As counterintuitive as it sounds, the way to reduce crowds is for guests to spend less $.

The current park availability system is not to ensure crowd levels are safe. They are determined by the maximum per person spend rate. Disney will keep increasing park availability as long as that spend rate doesn't begin to decrease. If guests are unhappy and spending less $ due to spending more time in ride queues or rationing $ due to higher prices around the parks and resorts, Disney will adjust accordingly. They wouldn't add capacity to counter a decreasing spend rate because that would increase unhappiness, decrease spend rate...and that cycle would continue.

I guarantee Disney does consider adding operating hours if that would increase the per person spend rate enough to cover the additional operational costs.

I enjoy spending time in Disney parks as much as the next person, but if we don't think all decisions are based on profitability then we are just kidding ourselves.

 

[RoseGold]

Just remember this about attractions and rides:
disney put a really high bar in quality for attractions (almost al the new rides are hits). And That is what makes Disney parks unique. And that mean, long time in thinking, conceptualizing and then building. starting to build new attractions just to be fillers for crowds, would mean lower quality,

The parks need "filler." Characters, Rafiki, food, something. It doesn't have to be a low quality or kiddie ride. That's why when HS is breaking down, which is often, there's nowhere for thousands of people to go.

HS is a miserable experience to me because it's a handful of great rides with massive lines.

Right now, at HS, everything is running (WOW) and Alien Saucers is still at 30 minutes, meet Minnie is at 40, ugh. As long as the mouse is printing money, right?

 

[gorkt]

As someone that goes every 3-4 years and has for decades, I can say the crowds are definitely worse. Part of it is that systems like FP+, G+ that everyone or most people opt into make the parks feel more crowded because people are milling about rather than standing in line. This is particularly true in AK, with their more narrow walkways.

But the last time I went, in 2019, was the one time where I felt the crowds were borderline dangerous. I went to MK at night during Jersey week, and the crowds near the fireworks viewing area were so dense and uncontrolled that people were literally trapped in place for long periods of time, which, in case of an emergency, could prove problematic. I am surprised that we have never heard of injuries in some of those crowds from trampling. Areas were impassable in some cases.

 

[Figvention]

Just remember this about attractions and rides:
disney put a really high bar in quality for attractions (almost al the new rides are hits). And That is what makes Disney parks unique. And that mean, long time in thinking, conceptualizing and then building. starting to build new attractions just to be fillers for crowds, would mean lower quality, and everyone would start complaining about a ride being underwelming etc. they simply cannot go faster.
universal can. But, they have a really different level in my opinion. They can build a super fast coaster, put just some thematization into the queue and they are done. And disney does not do that.

They don’t need “B” level/low quality rides, they need updated and entertaining SHOWS. These are respites from the weather and can suck up large amounts of people for for 15-30 mins at a time. Unfortunately these require a higher cost and union based labor that Disney will not bring back. Little Mermaid at DHS for example.

 

[RoseGold]

HS could just put some Star Wars characters in the Little Mermaid theater, like the princesses at MK, and it would be constantly full. Bring out a surprise one now and then and people would lose it. They don't even have to be humans. Droids don't have a union and don't take breaks.

 

[wdw&sonny]

IMHO, I don't think the ongoing suggestions for adding new/more attractions or a 5th gate makes any sense. I mean, what got us to this point? The more attractions/parks/entertainment, the more reasons to justify a trip to WDW. For that matter, the more there is to do in Orlando, the easier it is to justify a trip to Orlando. WDW has grown to a point with parks, resorts, restaurants, etc. to entice people from all over the world to justify a trip. Add more attractions and even more people will justify a trip, or two...

 

[disneyseniors]

No. It's not that black and white. They can:

1) add park hours to spread people out (they used to be much better about this)
2) add more staff to better handle the crowds (opening a new line in a store or restaurant cuts waits substantially)
3) offer more entertainment to eat people (remember doing rides with short waits during the night parade)
4) add more attractions to occupy the people who are there (at least 3 of the parks need net new capacity, and I could even make an argument for the 4th)

Making it so black and white just gives Disney a pass, and I really don't get it.

But all of that makes common sense but also costs disney money, which they don't seem to want to use on the parks anymore. IMO, of course it's disney's fault. They know exactly what's going on, but cost cutting is what is important now,not the guest experience.