Parents...make up your minds!

whoa-I have been answering these posts thinking the OP was a WOMAN

if Cijay is a MAN it puts a WHOLE different spin on this!!!!!!


And I thought it was sad that kids can't talk to people anymore.

We live in a society that claims to treat men and women equally. Do you really mean we should hold half the population to different rules, or am I just reading this incorrectly?
 
OP--my first thought is that you use such over dramatic language (parents "abandoning" their kids, etc) that I tend to feel you are likely over dramatizing the whole situation---meaning the parent who left a child to browse the toy aisle was likely gone 3 or 4 minutes not 30, etc. I also note that only one of the three incidents took place in the store where you are an employee--yet you act as if you working somewhere in the mall at all gives you some sort of extra authority, or makes you a safer adult, etc. Which I find odd.

As a parent who gave my kids a lot of freedom, and never taught them to be ware of strangers, but rather taught them what was and was not appropriate behaviour from others, especially other adults, here is how I would read each of the situations you describe:

1. Playing on the escalator. Yeah, that is not OK both because it is rude to others who need to use it and it is dangerous. Kids playing on these is actually one of my pet peeves. That said, unless the child actually had a stuck shoe or lace, etc I would not intervene directly and it is (sadly) so commonplace I cannot imagine bringing it up later on a message board as if it were some unheard of thing. IF it were ongoing for more than a minute or two and did not look like it was going to stop, I could see where you, OP, as an employee at a store in the mall, but not mall security itself, etc might report it to mall security to let them handle. Or, if I were really worried about the child's safety, I might stand near the emergency stop button and keep an eye out until the child moved on (I have done that a couple of times--especially when a child with longer hair was laying on the steps as an escalator went up).

2. Child left in the toy aisle of a store laid out such that it is "big enough for kids to not find their parents but adults can see over all the racks": well, that indicates that the mom could almost certainly see her child while she was shopping and was probably looking over every minute or two. It's likely the child who approached you had only just become concerned and teary eyed and mom had not seen it yet between glances, or simply had not had enough time to get there. Rather than engage the child in conversation a moment and ask what the mother was wearing so that you, yourself, could look over the racks and find the mother without the child leaving where they were told to wait--you told the child to head up to the front of the store? Seems out of line to me---and it seems pretty obvious that the mother was in fact paying attention given that she made it to the front of the store to get her kid faster than you did trying to keep up with the child you had directed there.

3. A parent leaves a child sitting at a table in the same food court the parent is in to get food. Parent can, at any time, glance over and see the child, Child is happily looking at a purchase and in no distress at all. You choose to strike up a conversation with the young child with the parent not there? Yeah, that is wrong and the type of behaviour my kids were taught to see as dangerous. Not because you were a stranger, but because adults do not randomly start conversations with unaccompanied children.
 
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When I was 10 in Munich, I used to buy a ticket for the U-Bahn, ride into the city and go to the Olympic Stadium to go swimming (3 or 4 years after the terrorist attack) - or just walk around downtown - by myself. Nothing was unusual about that - even while being in a foreign country.

Have things really gotten that much more dangerous that parents would never allow that today (I'm guilty also) - or are we just inundated with all the bad things that happen nationally that we have the perception that it's that much worse?

I think it's a combination of things. For me personally I've become more concerned about other people calling police or family services on what they consider risky parenting. I think that makes parents more hesitant to start growing kids independence.

There's that great example in CT where people keep calling the police on the parents who let their kids go to the park alone (something my parents certainly let me do). I got yelled at in a gas station when I went 2 pumps over to find a windshield washer and the lady in the car next to me said I never should have left my 7 year old alone and she was going to call the police (not minimizing babies left alone in cars, but a 7 year old can work a seat belt in the event my 45 second trip to the adjacent pumps becomes unsafe). There's a school bus stop across from my house and our 1st grade neighbor couldn't get off the bus and a report was written because her mother wasn't at the bus stop (her mom was 3 doors down shoveling the driveway and didn't hear the school bus but her daughter could point to her) yet now there's a report on the parent for failing to collect their child.

It's really tough because if you think a child is in actual danger of course you should alert authorities but unfortunately I think too many people are overzealous and abusing the system. We've somehow criminalized normal growth milestones and you can see an example of it here in the language of the first post about the mom who left her daughter alone in the food court.
 
I think it's a combination of things. For me personally I've become more concerned about other people calling police or family services on what they consider risky parenting. I think that makes parents more hesitant to start growing kids independence.

There's that great example in CT where people keep calling the police on the parents who let their kids go to the park alone (something my parents certainly let me do). I got yelled at in a gas station when I went 2 pumps over to find a windshield washer and the lady in the car next to me said I never should have left my 7 year old alone and she was going to call the police (not minimizing babies left alone in cars, but a 7 year old can work a seat belt in the event my 45 second trip to the adjacent pumps becomes unsafe). There's a school bus stop across from my house and our 1st grade neighbor couldn't get off the bus and a report was written because her mother wasn't at the bus stop (her mom was 3 doors down shoveling the driveway and didn't hear the school bus but her daughter could point to her) yet now there's a report on the parent for failing to collect their child.

It's really tough because if you think a child is in actual danger of course you should alert authorities but unfortunately I think too many people are overzealous and abusing the system. We've somehow criminalized normal growth milestones and you can see an example of it here in the language of the first post about the mom who left her daughter alone in the food court.
I agree 100% It is a sad state of unfair and ultimately harmful to society as a whole, iMO.
 

Oh, I know what OP stands for, just thought I'd welcome people to use my name.

You..don't think employees should...help lost parents locate their children? Wow. What should I do next time a child is looking for their lost parent? "Sorry kid, you're on your own, I have clothes to hang."

Oookay but next time you hear that announcement in a store about a lost child or you hear about someone reporting a lost child, remember to tell them not to get that involved with kids.

And the little boy in the parking lot? Just leave him there too then? Sorry, not on my watch.
It's possible for one's intentions to be appropriate but misunderstanding of the entire picture. Such is the nature of human beings. My tendency when confronted with unsupervised children is to pass the responsibility up (to a security officer, a store manager, a police officer, etc). Of course, I have a professional license so I can't just ignore these things. In my own career, I regularly see these issues become like a reality TV show, and I really don't want to have to deal with that unless I am on the clock. I think some of us have strong protective and nurturing reflexes when it comes to little ones. This is seen in all primates, and in many mammals as well. Humans can learn to control our reflexes and impulses, thank goodness. You may get the strong feeling that you are protecting by asking another person with more influence to monitor the situation. That way you know you have done your part, but you don't get those confused and angry feelings you are getting. Those don't come from being judgmental, by the way. They come from having empathy for the child. It's just about how you channel it. Believe me, it was difficult for me as well.
 
Wow. Defensive much? The PP was referencing the examples you gave, not every possible scenario. In the third scenario in your OP, the child wasn't lost. You took it upon yourself to initiate contact when it wasn't wanted or needed. I wouldn't have done what any of the parents did, but I definitely think you were in the wrong in approaching the girl at the table.
It's normal to have these behaviors and it's also normal to have strong emotional responses to them. I don't see where the OP did anything wrong. We learn how to handle these things well as we get older. Of course she is going to be defensive. The key is the overall intention, which was socially appropriate and based on concern, and the resulting confusion and questioning of her own actions, which is based on empathy. So, I see no malice.
 
Another one who totally missed the point. Does anyone actually read posts or just pick out key words? The mothers freaked out about 'strangers'. Not 'me' in particular. (By the way, I wear my uniform at work, I don't walk around the city in it. The one at the food court, I was just a lady sitting eating KFC next to the child she bailed out on.)
I see your point, but it is truly best for your dignity if you not try to argue or defend any position. This is about experiences and how they are interpreted and felt. There is never a right or wrong in that. Your intentions are right. Sometimes we have a difficult time seeing the bigger picture. That's how our thoughts and feelings go. So, I recommend you gracefully bow out of this chat. I am available to speak privately if you want.
 
It's normal to have these behaviors and it's also normal to have strong emotional responses to them. I don't see where the OP did anything wrong. We learn how to handle these things well as we get older. Of course she is going to be defensive. The key is the overall intention, which was socially appropriate and based on concern, and the resulting confusion and questioning of her own actions, which is based on empathy. So, I see no malice.

Where do you see the OP questioning her own actions? Any point raised by anyone else is met with anger and more hyperbole.
 
Where do you see the OP questioning her own actions? Any point raised by anyone else is met with anger and more hyperbole.
That's exactly how most people behaved when they are confronted in a disrespectful way. There is a much more gentle and respectful way to confront people that acknowledges their talents, efforts, contributions, etc and asks open-ended questions like, "I understand you were frustrated when you took the child back to her mother. How do you think that could have gone better?" We question ourselves in many ways. Some subtle, some overt.
 
That's exactly how most people behaved when they are confronted in a disrespectful way. There is a much more gentle and respectful way to confront people that acknowledges their talents, efforts, contributions, etc and asks open-ended questions like, "I understand you were frustrated when you took the child back to her mother. How do you think that could have gone better?" We question ourselves in many ways. Some subtle, some overt.

I'd argue that the OP's comments were among the most disrespectful ones on the thread. Interesting how we all see/read things differently.
 
...As a parent who gave my kids a lot of freedom, and never taught them to be ware of strangers, but rather taught them what was and was not appropriate behaviour from others, especially other adults, here is how I would read each of the situations you describe:

1. Playing on the escalator. Yeah, that is not OK both because it is rude to others who need to use it and it is dangerous. Kids playing on these is actually one of my pet peeves...

I agree 100% It is a sad state of unfair and ultimately harmful to society as a whole, iMO.
LOVE all of this! :thumbsup2
 
I'd argue that the OP's comments were among the most disrespectful ones on the thread. Interesting how we all see/read things differently.
Do you think they started out that way or did you see an increase in anger/frustration/hostility as the thread went on? Because I think this follows the pattern of just about all personal threads in DIS: OP reveals something personal that exposes a vulnerability, other posters give advice, tell the OP how he or she is a variety of negative adjectives, OP gets defensive and tries to defend self, OP may discuss something about the precipitating event which was not revealed in the OP, starting a new line of posts suggesting the OP is a liar and is just trying to get attention, and on and on if the OP doesn't know how to gracefully exit.
 
Do you think they started out that way or did you see an increase in anger/frustration/hostility as the thread went on? Because I think this follows the pattern of just about all personal threads in DIS: OP reveals something personal that exposes a vulnerability, other posters give advice, tell the OP how he or she is a variety of negative adjectives, OP gets defensive and tries to defend self, OP may discuss something about the precipitating event which was not revealed in the OP, starting a new line of posts suggesting the OP is a liar and is just trying to get attention, and on and on if the OP doesn't know how to gracefully exit.

You were not asking me--but personally, I think the OP started off pretty judgmental of others from the very first post, and then lashed out at those who did not agree with her assessment as well as randomly lashing out at people simply for referring to her as OP, which is normal and helpful for many who do not recall names well, and continued to harp on that when it was explained.

Then again, I do not see that the OP involved the poster revealing anything personal anyway---seems not about her at all and just about her being annoyed and judgmental of parenting choices.

It is a really weird thread overall though--even by DIS standards.
 
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Do you think they started out that way or did you see an increase in anger/frustration/hostility as the thread went on? Because I think this follows the pattern of just about all personal threads in DIS: OP reveals something personal that exposes a vulnerability, other posters give advice, tell the OP how he or she is a variety of negative adjectives, OP gets defensive and tries to defend self, OP may discuss something about the precipitating event which was not revealed in the OP, starting a new line of posts suggesting the OP is a liar and is just trying to get attention, and on and on if the OP doesn't know how to gracefully exit.

I think she started off judgmental. Yes, it got worse as time went one, but it started there. Actually, partway through I remembered a previous thread that the OP started that went the same way.

And, like Hadley, I don't see anything personal - the OP wanted people to agree with her view of the world and they didn't. So she got angry. Just like in her previous thread. Possibly others, I haven't looked, just the one I remember.
 
I, too, see the OP as starting out judgmental and it went on from there. If you disagree with her POV, you are mean and don't understand, and if you agree with her, you're the only one who is smart and understands her. My post agreed with some of her points but I disagreed with other things, and I got ignored.

And like SirDuff noted, I remember another thread of the OP's that went sideways. Same pattern there - anyone who didn't agree was a meanie.

And her problems with the term OP were weird. I'm sorry, but there is nothing wrong with that term. If she doesn't like it, well, I would suggest she step away from the internet.
 
You were not asking me--but personally, I think the OP started off pretty judgmental of others from the very first post, and then lashed out at those who did not agree with her assessment as well as randomly lashing out at people simply for referring to her as OP, which is normal and helpful for many who do not recall names well, and continued to harp n that when it was explained.
Then again, I do not see that the OP involved the poster revealing anything personal anyway---seems not about her at all and just about her being annoyed and judgmental of parenting choices.
It is a really weird thread overall though--even by DIS standards.
I think she started off judgmental. Yes, it got worse as time went one, but it started there. Actually, partway through I remembered a previous thread that the OP started that went the same way.

And, like Hadley, I don't see anything personal - the OP wanted people to agree with her view of the world and they didn't. So she got angry. Just like in her previous thread. Possibly others, I haven't looked, just the one I remember.
What was the point of view? I could never discern any overarching point-of-view.
 
You were not asking me--but personally, I think the OP started off pretty judgmental of others from the very first post, and then lashed out at those who did not agree with her assessment as well as randomly lashing out at people simply for referring to her as OP, which is normal and helpful for many who do not recall names well, and continued to harp on that when it was explained.

Then again, I do not see that the OP involved the poster revealing anything personal anyway---seems not about her at all and just about her being annoyed and judgmental of parenting choices.

It is a really weird thread overall though--even by DIS standards.
It's interesting what we pick up from these conversations. I think when you work with people, families and children, you start to develop sort of a "dictionary" of responses to interactions and what they may reveal about someone. Of course, these things are broad generalizations.
 


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